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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
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this will give an idea of the leading technique. the orange metolius is connected to a homemade sling made with dynamic rope and loose overhand knots on each end (just like the one in my hand). The rope is clove hitched to a 3rd piece, the BD#3 in the pic here. I try to work with three pieces although that means there's only two when placing a piece, and often only one if i'm confident with my stance
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 02:21am PT
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better?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
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i think what you're seeing is mostly from the point of view. when weighted all three were sharing load. there's no moving back and forth on this route, especially when the ropes get into the notch that the one on the left is already in. using the two spread out bolts would have been fine, but since there was a third i threw on the sling too. using the two bolts on the right would have resulted in the right strand of the cord running over the knife like ridge that is in the sun. i do need a longer cord though, especially for 3-piece gear anchors.
now for the other part of the set up. was soloing on the ropes with a prusik and slings for back up (it's a sport route)
before this pic i took a fall which got the prusik super tight, and had me floating 6 or 7 feet from the wall. took me a while to get out of that situation which is why i opted to use the draws next time around. i never got close to the top though
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Gumby... May I make suggestion, or Two??
When you use cams for a belay.... get some weight on them, if you can. It wont help for TR anchors but if your going to stand there, have at least one with your bod weight on it.
And .... I never girth hitch runners to your friendler (sp) rather I hitch them to the loop in the swami....The top part only. This keeps the friendler (sp) free so you can work your Rap belay deal without all the other stuff getting in the way.
Climb on...
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
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I never girth hitch runners to your friendler (sp) rather I hitch them to the loop in the swami....The top part only. This keeps the friendler (sp) free so you can work your Rap belay deal without all the other stuff getting in the way. yeah i wish i had done that. getting off the hanging prusik involved setting up my atc which was a pain with the runners there.
When you use cams for a belay.... get some weight on them, if you can. not sure what this is referring to, unless it is the pic 1/2 way up the page which kind of looks like a gear belay. but thats just me climbing with three pieces of gear moving along with me.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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When you use cams for a belay.... get some weight on them, if you can.
not sure what this is referring to, unless it is the pic 1/2 way up the page which kind of looks like a gear belay. but thats just me climbing with three pieces of gear moving along with me.
Oh- in that case, never mind.
You will most likley die. ;>)
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
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You will most likley die. ;>) yes, but it won't be sitting on a couch
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 01:18am PT
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so i've been working on anchors along with reading the long/gaines book as has been suggested several times in this thread and i have a question about the equalette. i have rafters in my bedroom and can sling them to play around building anchors and i noticed that when i use 3 or four pieces the equalette will equalize very well as long as the movement is just along a plane. when i move it in a 3rd dimension it remains equalized between two pieces but not the third. so i put in a sliding x between two of the pieces which brings back the equalization between all three pieces. here's a picture
so the question - is it ok to shorten one end simply using a clove hitch to get the anchor to a proper length for a comfortable belay position (as pictured with the left strand). i know the clove hitch is ok to clip to the two pieces but that's where i lost the equalization so i kept one clove anchored to the sliding x's master point. it seems to work and equalizes very well in 3 dimensions but i've never done it this way in the field. is it ok? is there a better way?
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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the two biners on the x looks good, even though I think that little part is superfluous when you are actually at the power point of the equalette, but the biners do seem to sit nicer. the clove on the left "arm" looks good. you can also clove/8inabite in another piece with the slack side of the clove as well, leaving whatever left over slack after equalizing dangling in between ( just have the correct strand oriented to back of biner, assuming a hitch ) but I'm sure you know all this, cause you been reading the book, right?
edit. Make it simple! and it will be better. is there a reason you couldnt just take out the extra crap on the left arm of the equalette. clove hitch one half of the arm directly to one of piece on the left, ( extended if needed, but not equalized yet ) and have the other half of the left arm cloved to the other piece, once again extended if needed. let the equalette do the equalizing, like it is supposed to, and just extend your pieces only if you need to to get to the equalette; just a guess, but i would think you dont even need some of the extra cordage there. so you could probably cut out 1 biner and the extra sling too.
dooes that make sense?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 01:44am PT
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that's how i had it originally. when i run the biners back and forth on the master point (think on a plane perpendicular to the camera) everything stays equalized. but when i move the master point forward and backwards (think towards the camera and away from it), the two strands on the left would become unequalized so the load was only carried by two instead of three points
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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That's sort of a shortfall of that style anchor. At some point, trying to build a self-equalizing anchor becomes more cumbersome and time consuming than beneficial. Often, you just have to pre-equalize as best you can on a side between two pieces. Otherwise, you'd end up equalizing those two pieces with a second sliding X on a sling.
Basically, ya gotta cut your losses at some point in the name of speed so you're not dicking around with it all day. Thinking, lots of the anchors I've seen have been cloved in the way you've done it there.
Guess what I mean is not everything can be efficiently self-equalizing.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 01:53am PT
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the thing about the self equalizing anchor is that it is easier and more efficient to set up since you don't have to worry so much about getting the pre-equalization right. the limiter knots are always there and clove hitches are easy to adjust to the right length.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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yes, when the pieces are in range of your cordolette and direction of pull stays somewhere in that x/y axis without going 3d, like you've noticed. When you get outside that ideal, it's more interesting.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 02:09am PT
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that's what i like most about it though. it increases the range of my cordelette. setting up the sliding x between the two other pieces is trivial and gives it the 3-d equalization.
i'm working on it and getting more comfortable with it mostly because the book slammed the cordelette as basically not equalizing at all, and for me it seems time consuming to set up a pre-equalized anchor each time when you can just pull a self equalizing one off your harness.
unless i'm missing something...
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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You really only end up with problems when the pre-tied cord (you said the knots stay in it... meaning the extension limiters?) doesn't fit well to the available locations for gear. Say, where the pieces go in a vertical crack. I think he addresses that too in there though.
Either way, cordolette or rope... self-equalizing or pre-equalized, the main thing is probably recognizing what's going to work for you in whatever situation you find yourself, and if you can predict the direction of pull or range of directions, then you can build your anchor accordingly. Just more tools in the bag for ya.
But remember, I'm about like turtle slow, so efficiency is kind of a lost cause on me, and I just try to build appropriate to the direction of pull I expect a load to bear on it.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 02:24am PT
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You really only end up with problems when the pre-tied cord (you said the knots stay in it... meaning the extension limiters?) doesn't fit well to the available locations for gear. and we've come full circle to my original question (i think). can i just shorten it to whatever length i want with a clove hitch. seems like it shouldn't be a problem, but i don't want to kill anyone. well, i shouldn't say anyone
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Short answer... yes. Depending on what expert you listen to.
Or, anyway, lots of the pieces I place get cloved in. But i'm no expert.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 11:20am PT
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i'm not sure i agree Dingus. The point being that adding the sliding x between the two pieces takes almost no time since it's self equalizing. putting in the equalette is also quick, also because it's self equalizing. the only adjustment is putting one clove hitch in approximately the right place. and if you get it wrong you don't have to untie it to adjust it.
i'm the new guy here so take it for what it's worth, but it seems easier and quicker to me than working with a cordelette, requires less cord than a cordelette, and achieves greatly superior equalization as compared to a cordelette.
having said that, my last climb was corrugation and we were fighting the daylight and each of my anchors was two pieces with a sliding x.
either way, it seems like this would be something to have in my bag
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 11:42am PT
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i think that matters as it relates to my climb the other day, since the shock loading from one piece failing there could have been severe due to the length of each arm. and that's the reason i want to get familiar with the equalette. as it pertains to the picture above, if one of the pieces that are part of that sliding x were to fail, the shock loading would be negligible.
was trying to get Britney to go to the fortress tomorrow, but she's got too much to do so i'm heading up her way to the black wall. i need to learn the woodfords way.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2013 - 11:57am PT
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3 solid pieces? Why equalization? WHY? If you're not going to equalize them, why bother putting in more than one??
Ron, when I climbed Haystack earlier this year a guy came up as I was belaying the 2nd pitch. He plugged in three pieces threw in a couple cloves and i think a figure 8 on a bight as the master. was belaying the 2nd in under 2 minutes. i wish i had my helmet cam cause he was too fast for me to soak it all in. i'm sure that's where i'm headed but i'm not there yet.
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