Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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Messages 1701 - 1720 of total 2338 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Thanks, Chief Watson, for the update. Looks like I was wrong -- sounds like the Morales family has not been previously interviewed. So I hope they provide lots of useful information!

Thanks for the library information. I did have one question (maybe I or someone else here can contact Detective Hornbeck directly). You say that “there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com.” Do you mean that the library has WiFi and there was only one person who accessed that site using a wireless device such as an iPhone? As far as I know, Matt’s phone did not have internet capability, (please correct me if I'm wrong) so he would have accessed the internet using the library's PCs, not through WiFi. Or do you mean that the PCs in the library connect to the internet through the library’s WiFi and that there was only one person who contacted that site, whether on a PC or through WiFi?

Edit: Apparently though the library also has WiFi, the library's workstations are connected through a wireless network, so that might have been all that was meant.

Also, is it possible to tell what dates people accessed those sites using the PCs at the library? (I had thought that info was lost, but if it's possible to tell which sites were accessed, maybe not...) We know Matt was in the library on the 16th. I think that climbing sites that were accessed in the last days before Matt disappeared, and especially on the 16th, would be of special interest. We know Matt posted something on Summitpost on the 16th, but we don’t know what other sites he looked at, which he might have used to plan his activities on the 17th. Knowing that might help narrow things down.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
The last person to text Matt either no longer has that phone and/or is no longer using that cell phone provider.. that is what I recall. But yes it makes me scratch my head as well. I used to be with Verizon and once I ported my number away from them I no longer had access into my acct on their website.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
@Kenish those would be good groups to follow up with... I agree.

I don't know what you mean by "his 'timeline'"? Matt's last confirm-able known interaction with anything was the text message that he sent at 8:09pm on the 16th of July. There was no communication from anything that was associated with him after 2:53a on the 17th of July.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Tioga-Text message data table contains "time sent" field, so this is possible to determine for even old text messages on the receiver side
That is correct, but we are operating with information that has not been acquired through a subpoena. And we may never be privy to that information. It would sure be nice to know though. It would be another piece of the puzzle.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
MGuzzy, I agree that it’s important to know that Matt (or someone) turned his phone on at 2:53am on the 17th, and it would be great to know exactly when the text was sent so we know when Matt's phone was off or unreachable.

Looking at Matt's movements on the 16th: According to the phone records, Matt was in town during mid-afternoon (spoke for 24 minutes with his parents, apparently saying the car would be ready on the 18th but that the garage might string it out later).

Then his last communication for which we have a location was on the afternoon of the 16th, when he called the repair shop at 4:29pm (1 minute) and 4:35pm (2 minutes), from the direction of Mammoth Mountain (perhaps from near the main lodge). I wonder what they told him in those brief calls, and whether the person who answered the call could even answer his question. (Maybe to confirm it would be ready on the 18th, or to see if it might actually be done sooner?)

After those calls on the 16th, Matt sent and received texts intermittently between 4:40pm and 8:34pm, apparently with friends in Pennsylvania, and according to Tiffany, everything seemed fine. I had assumed that the final couple of texts sent/received were from his tent, but you’re right that he could have been elsewhere. (Doesn’t seem the type to be into night life, however.)

Finally, while it looks like Matt turned his phone off within a certain range of times each night, our evidence on when he typically turned it on is less clear. As I’ve said before, the only reason we know his phone was on at 2:53am that morning is because it received a text from the night before, which registered at that time. On many other days, the only evidence we have of the phone being on is from late afternoon, yet Matt may well have turned on the phone earlier in the day, or even in the wee hours of the morning. Unless he made or received a call or text, we can’t tell whether his phone was on or off. (Maybe Verizon has more info about this, but we can't tell it from the log we have.)
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
If I recall they will comply completely with LE.. so we'll need to be patient while LE does their job. There was a some discussion of the procedures and avenues LE has upthread. The family would need to file a subpoena if they wanted to proceed independently of LE.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
LAHiker.. that is exactly it. If we get a time that text was sent, then we know it was waiting to be received by a phone that was not on (connected to the cell network) during that time frame.

Tioga- We are in agreement, Yes that information is there somewhere and with access to Verizon Logs it would be obvious. So for now all we can do is ask the person involved about their recollection.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Tioga,

Thanks. Yes, I'd feared that the phone's on/off info would no longer be available.

I have a question regarding the library records. Chief Watson says that Detective Hornbeck checked with the library and found the following:

During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com. Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.

What do you think is meant by "wireless client"? Would this mean a library patron using a wireless device such as an iPhone, or do you think it would include access to the internet using the PCs in the library as well as WiFi? Or is it not clear what was meant?

The reason I ask is that as far as I know, Matt's phone didn't have internet access and he was in the library to use the PCs...
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
LAhiker- I read that to mean the Library's network of workstation clients are connected wirelessly.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Thanks, MGuzzy! I just called the library to confirm (and also to find out whether the library has WiFi, for my own info if I go to Mammoth Lakes).

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network, though she implied that wasn't her area.

Because I'd explained why I was calling, she also volunteered that someone had called to try to see if Matt might have printed anything out, but that thousands of people print things out there, so that info would not be easy to find.

She wished us luck.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
@mguzzy- By "his timeline", I meant the amount of time he had consciously and subconsciously planned for his activity on the 17th. Matt seemed like the type to plan and coordinate around all the variables (daylight, transportation, weather, etc), just like a flight plan when I go flying. Combined with his car not being ready the evening of the 17th means he probably wasn't in a hurry or rush. It also sounds from other people's comments that if his progress was falling short of his plan or nightfall, he'd turn around before rushing ahead to his goal (nicknamed "get-there-itis" in aviation...cause of many accidents). But I'm second guessing someone I don't know, and could be way off-base.

BTW, is your screen name short for Motoguzzi? Cool if it is!
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
@kenish- Go it.
BTW-My screen name is not specifically related to the bike, but I was living in Europe as a kid when I got the nickname.. so I'm sure there was an element of that in there as well. on a similar note, is your Screen name related to the pastry?
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
@mguzzy- Cool on your screen name. Mine is just a mashup of my first/last names. BTW, I edited my previous post after you responded.

Also, I'm working on posting to the best spot on MTBR.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
@Kenish & Tioga.. I'll throw another one in there.. how about Horseman groups. I thought I remember that there used to be guided horseback trips between Mammoth and Yosemite. Do they still do that? Anybody have contact with those horse back forums?

Yes according to Tiffany, Ron and Jeg, Matt was a very thorough and safe climber. He seemed to have the healthy perspective that the mountain will always be there and not push a summit if the conditions didn't warranted it.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
I'm not saying he took one... I'm sure Matt would rather carry the mule than be carried by one, just for the sport of it... But that others that do that may have seen something out of place to them.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Posted to mtbr.com forums- General, Socal, and Norcal with a link to the FB page, and asked anyone with info to respond on FB. But I will check MTBR for replies, too.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
@mguzzy & LA – “During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com”.

-so we know Matt accessed summitpost in july from the library, therefore we can confidently say this 1 person was Matt. Correct?

“Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.”
This does not matter – because we know that 1 person was Matt.

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
^^^ @tdg-

That is probably not a good assumption. The library computers seem to have a hardwired connection; if true, wireless accesses are through personal devices (iPad, smartphone, laptop, etc). Matt didn't own a laptop, and his phone was not a smartphone, correct?

Mammoth Lakes is a hiking, fishing, climbing, running, and cycling destination. Access to outdoor/wilderness websites by the general public is much more likely than at a typical library. Many visitors don't have WiFi access where they are staying, so it's likely they would go to the library for access...Matt being one example.

The accesses to the websites very well could have been Matt...but far from certain.

The idea to ask the website owners to look through their access records is good. There are several complications...most websites have a service "host" their sites. The websites should be contacted first, but may not have easy access to the logs. (Contact them through "about us" or "Contact us"...you can also do a "whois" inquiry to find out the registered owner of any URL). The other issue is the IP address of the library and computers in the library. Depending on how the library and ISP configure and secure their network, the ISP may change every time a new browsing session opens.

Definitely worth pursuing but pointing out some hurdles in the pursuit.
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Hi all,

Just got in from work and read posts to get caught up. Couple of things stood out...I agree with Kennish, I don't think he was in a hurry because the car place was not in a hurry to fix his car. He was always on the go like I am, so I would be bored and want to do something....

Tiffany and Ron... aside from climbing and running, did Matt have any other hobbies?

I did check some of the other forums earlier on, but no Matt Greene in any form in the search engine. Did he use a code name? Maybe if we each took a web site to research, it wouldn't be so overwhelming. I spent hours one day looking. One of the sites you couldn't view without a password.

The detective is looking into the emails, however the phone could be subpoenaed as well. That's how they caught my stalker a few years ago. Ron and Tiffany would have to do request that from the police.

Just a thought...if my phone is out of a reception area or off, I do not receive emails until I turn it on or am back in an area of reception. I have a data phone, though.

Let's hope the Morales come through with some information as well. I don't know that we will be privy to the info though.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
RE library access:

Kenish, are you positive that library computers have cable connections and not wifi? Note:

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron

Ron, on most of the sites it should be easy to tell what Matt responded to (if you can gain access to their logs). Because if he responded, he was logged in, and if he was logged in, then the database will have his user id associated with his responses.

Adding to what Kenish said: if Matt looked at pages but wasn't logged into the sites, in order to isolate which pages he looked at you'd need to confirm that he was the only user looking at the sites from the library at the time (since the library doesn't track the traffic of individual computers).

As Kenish said, the IP of a given user's browsing may change frequently, but I think it's unlikely -- especially if the computer stayed online.

Some possible ways to get further data [apologies for redundant information]:

 much website software tracks the last login time of a given user. It may also track the IP address from which the user logged in.
 the software may also track the pages viewed by a logged in user. Unlikely, but possible.
 If he was not logged in but was the only user at the library viewing the sites, then the site's access logs may give clues (as Ron suggested).
 Mountain Project profile?: http://www.mountainproject.com/u/matthew-greene//107615103?action=personalpage&
 Summitpost profile?: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mattgreene/40605.
 Possible post from Jul 16?: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=408661&type=vote_comments&discussion_id=473067#473067

From the Summitpost profile page:

A Few Words: NOTE FROM SUMMITPOST ADMIN: We have checked Matt's account to check PMs to see in any info might be found to aid in the search. Unfortunately no information of any kind was found. The correct last login date for Matt is July 16.
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