Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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Messages 1701 - 1720 of total 2361 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
My thoughts on potential problems on the glaciers for Matthew are as follows...

Where he would likely have had a problem, is with the bergschrunds. They are gaping this year, and trying to navigate them with only 1 axe can REALLY be treacherous.

But Matthew (being a math guy) seems to me to be a calculated person, making me of the opinion that he would not have messed with the bergschrund.

Again, I go back to the whole moving fast thing.....the talus fields, the cliff bands covered in loose talus and scree.....gullies running with meltwater....this is where my red flags go up, and lead me to believe that he likely suffered an injury that rendered him immobile.

Unfortunately, as compared to the glaciers (and how small they are this year) the talus fields and exposed cliffs are SO vast.....
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
Does anyone else here find it in the slightest bit peculiar that a person is up before 6am and texting a person who is 2000 miles away, yet has no recalection on what was said or why he was texting Matt at 3:30 in the morning PST?

Odd, yes. But not unbelievable. I've learned that some people really do have memories that bad.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
The text could have been sent shortly after Matt turned off his phone the night before, then finally delivered when the phone went back on.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
If that person doesn't remember the exact text of a "talk to you later" kind of message, that's imaginable...but I hope they remember the general content of conversion if they did text back and forth, otherwise it's really strange. Knowing you're the last one to text a missing person would be a great help to refresh the memory?

Verizon specifically clarifies in FAQ:
"Verizon Wireless will attempt to deliver the message when your phone is powered on and you are in the Verizon Wireless digital service area. If the phone is powered off or you have traveled outside of the Verizon Wireless digital service area, the network will store the message for later delivery. The network will attempt to deliver the message for 5 days (120 hours) from the date of Verizon Wireless' receipt of the message. Messages not delivered within 5 days will be automatically deleted."

So yes, this was definitely a power on and message sent earlier had been delivered. No voice mail checking. Sounds like was expecting 3am call, possibly? Doesn't seem like regular alarm for early start--alarms are usually set at times like 3am, 3.15, 3.30, etc, too random of a time. As to getting up to go to the restroom...I think a person who has a misfortune to wake up due to need to use a restroom in campground would rather want to be done and go back to sleep instead of disrupting their sleep further by turning the phone on (same about being woken up by noise)...unless...couldn't find a flashlight and tried to use phone light to help finding it?
Waiting for important call is definitely one strong possibility. Another is checking on important text (or voicemail that never came in). He wasn't waiting for mechanic to call him, that's for sure.

Did he get up that early for climbs in the past? If he turned the phone off around 9 to get early sleep--in these campgrounds it gets quiet around 10 (if it does get quiet at all), so he'd have less than 5 hours of sleep , considering noise bothered him (isn't a heavy sleeper?). It is certainly enough for some people before a big hike/climb, but would need an alarm to get up that early anyway, most likely--so, one possibility is setting alarm few minutes before something (phone call) expected at 3am. Another is planning to get up at around 3am but waking up a little earlier without alarm and turning the phone on.
CyDuke

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
Has it ever been determined what time the sender of the 2:53am text sent the text? I know he cannot remember what he said, but does he recall what time he sent it? Or can he check his phone records. On his end, it may show when he sent it, not when Matt received it.

It could be important - because maybe the message was sent at 5:53am PA time which is not unreasonable for someone that might be up getting ready for work. He may have assumed Matt's phone would be off but would get the message when he turned the phone on. If this is the case, then maybe Matt fell asleep prior to turning his phone off and got the message in real time. He could have shut the phone off at that point. And that could make a difference in the assumption that he got up early either for a ride or a long day somewhere on foot.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
It was mentioned that the sender of the last text was "no longer on that phone" which sounds puzzling: Deleted the text?--or changed phone number? If he still got his account he can see the time he sent that message.
CyDuke

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
If he still got his account he can see the time he sent that message.

He could probably even call his provider and get the info. They probably won't have the content of text, but they should be able to give the time it was sent. Might be important to know.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
Cyduke and Tioga,

Interesting speculations. Earlier in the thread, Tiffany said:

Text @ 2:53 am most likely one from previous night but Matt's phone was off so when he turned it on he rec'd it. Best guess is he'd complained about ppl packing early am (4am) and it waking him up; maybe the case?! The last text was from an older fellow from a climbing gym here in PA; he can't remember what it was but probably insignificant and not warranting a response.

Jill, John, Tiffany, Ron:

Do you happen to know whether Matt wore a watch and/or used an alarm when on climbing trips?
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
So, from the statement of that fellow from PA it wasn't something that he'd send at around 6am EST most likely ("insignificant"). Well, it's significant now.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
He wasn't waiting for a call/text of "I'm coming to pick you up" kind" pretty sure--as he'd try to call that person since he received no call from them. Also, if he waited for someone to pick him up, and they were a no show--he'd try to call them as well. And he didn't call or text anyone. Or, to check if they left "change of plans, cancelling" message--there was no such cancellation message (one possibility discussed was he hitchiked due to a no show of his ride, but from phone records it seems like this didn't take place) Then, perhaps--if he indeed expected a ride at that early hour--he turned the phone on so that the driver could call him if they had trouble finding him (and to be sure there's no cancellation) and that the person arrived as planned--one of many possible explanations.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:17am PT
Sounds like was expecting 3am call, possibly?

I wouldn't conclude this...

When camping, I often find myself awak in the middle of the night, and out of boredom or curiosity turn the phone on to check email, check the weather forecast, or whatever. A lot of spots on the East Side have cellular data reception.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Well, his phone didn't have internet capablities...so it's voice or text. Unless he merely used it as either watch, alarm or flashlight.

Btw, there're phones that won't go into full boot (and won't download text messages) if only used as alarm. There're also phones that can't be used as alarm from powered down state. One got to know the specs for his model.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:33am PT
He could have been checking voicemail, then.

Maybe I missed this upthread... Smartphones are not the only phones with internet capability. My old clamshell dumb phone had limited internet capability, and I could check my email on it if I had configured it that way.

My only point being that it's still not conclusive that he was expecting a phone call at 3am based solely on the fact that he turned his phone on...

Maybe he was, but I don't think it's a given.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:37am PT
Well if you read my posts and that specific one, you can see many possibilities that I describe...and specifically mention "one out of many possibilities". At this point, all these possibilities have similar likelihood.

I believe his family had posted that his phone did not have internet capability, somewhere at the start of this long thread.

My clamshell phone has primitive browser as well, but checking simple gmail from it is so hard that easier not to check at all, unless it's super-urgent.

To think of it, doesn't look like he was waiting for important/urgent voicemail either, as when there's no new voicemail alert, a person will likely still call and check voicemail, just to be sure (no voicemail was dialed from his phone after that power up). And the only other record that stands out as very early is 5.04am incoming call on July 15th.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 7, 2013 - 01:50am PT
tdg119- Kenish where are you getting these logs. The info I have doesnt show text locations

The 253am text was north of a tower on Mammoth Mtn. This info is stated in the very original post...I also recall some Verizon info posted to a different website before this thread started, and it showed the north direction.

If that is indeed true, it indicates the Main Lodge area. (The campground is east of Mammoth Mtn.) FYI, I have a smartphone on Verizon. Coverage in town and anywhere on the front side of the ski area (north of the peak) is "3 bars" or better. (Texts are transmitted with cellular voice data, and not on the 3G/4G signal).
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:13am PT
doesn't look like he was waiting for important/urgent voicemail either, as when there's no new voicemail alert, a person will likely still call and check voicemail, just to be sure

Well, I don't dial in to check voicemail when there's no alert, and can't imagine doing so unless it's a call that's extraordinarily important... I don't even know how to do that...

Maybe someone who knows Matt can give info on his tendencies in this regard.
onyourleft

climber
Smog Angeles
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Alpineholydog wrote:
Just Returned from Trip through Mammoth. We took Mammoth Taxi up to Agnew Meadows and again noticed how very narrow the road from Mineret Summit to Agnew Meadows is. It would be best searched by hiking and examining the downhill side closely. Lots of brush that could easily obscure things. I think if he hiked to Agnew he had to take this road.

The following are some cell phone pictures taken on my (slow) road bike ride from Mammoth to Red's Meadow and back on Saturday, 8/31:

Matthew's Flyer on the Minaret Vista Ranger Kiosk as one enters the ro...
Matthew's Flyer on the Minaret Vista Ranger Kiosk as one enters the road down to Agnew Meadows
Credit: onyourleft

Turnoff to Agnew Meadows
Turnoff to Agnew Meadows
Credit: onyourleft

Road heading back towards Minaret Vista from Agnew Meadows turnoff. <br/>
...
Road heading back towards Minaret Vista from Agnew Meadows turnoff.
Downhill side on right. If Matt were hit and thrown off the road, presumably he would have fallen to camera right, the downslope side
Credit: onyourleft

Downslope side showing underbrush and fallen trees adjacent to road
Downslope side showing underbrush and fallen trees adjacent to road
Credit: onyourleft

A couple of years back, there was a catastrophic wind event that blew ...
A couple of years back, there was a catastrophic wind event that blew down thousands of trees on the western slopes of the canyon near Red's Meadow. It appears the USFS has done a considerable effort of clearing the downed trees.
Credit: onyourleft

Another view adjacent to the road.  The frequent watercourses would sh...
Another view adjacent to the road. The frequent watercourses would show some low vegetation, but rarely was the vegetation more than about a meter tall. I did not see any evidence of anything non-natural.
Credit: onyourleft

More cleared brush and downed trees.  This area is approximately 2/3 o...
More cleared brush and downed trees. This area is approximately 2/3 of the distance from Agnew Meadows to the Minaret Summit Ranger Kiosk
Credit: onyourleft

The Ritter Range on the Western Skyline from near the kiosk <br/>
Once aga...
The Ritter Range on the Western Skyline from near the kiosk
Once again, the area nearest to the road surface was surprisingly free of underbrush.
Credit: onyourleft
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:50am PT
Kenish, as far as I know, no location was provided for the text message, or for any text message. The "top of Mammoth Mountain" location -- later determined by SAR to be more like in the direction of Mammoth Mountain, perhaps at the Main Lodge -- was for when Matt called the repair shop at 4:29pm and 4:35pm the previous afternoon (7/16). I think there was some initial confusion about this here...

Split Pants posted:

This is the call/text detail I have for the 16th and 17th (Tiffany let me know if I copy/pasted something wrong).

7/16 11:12 AM EDT / 8:12 AM PDT 1 Peak -- (voicemail)
7/16 6:00 PM EDT / 3:00 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 6:06 PM EDT / 3:06 PM PDT 24 Peak -- (parents)
From 8:12 AM to 3:06 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.638167 Lon -118.961611, 1601 Meridian Blvd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca.
Directly south of the library. Directly north a mile or two from where Matt was camping.

7/16 7:29 PM EDT / 4:29 PM PDT 1 Peak -- (repair shop)
7/16 7:35 PM EDT / 4:35 PM DPT 2 Peak -- (repair shop)
From 4:29 PM to 4:35 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.630528 Lon -119.033078, 5920 Minaret Rd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, top of Mammoth Mtn. After examination/discussing with SAR and looking at the Azimuth (deg) per the ping, it was determined Matt "possibly" called from the Main Lodge or anywhere in that direction.

This is the last phone call from Matt’s phone (per MLPD no more pings after the 16th of July at 4:35 pm)

7/16 7:40 PM EDT / 4:40 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 8:57 PM EDT / 5:57 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 9:13 PM EDT / 6:13 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 10:38 PM EDT / 7:38 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 10:52 PM EDT / 7:52 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 11:09 PM EDT / 8:09 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 11:34 PM EDT / 8:34 PM PDT Text Received

Per MLPD Verizon re: text message retrieval. Verizon only holds that information for about 3 to 4 days.
Per Verizon too much time has passed by.


July 17th (Wednesday)
07/17 5:53 AM EDT / 2:53 AM PDT Text Received

Family traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone.

Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July, as indicated on my Verizon emergency request re: Greene’s cell phone, his phone was turned off/powered off.
The 2:48 pm is not a ping, because there is no Lat & Lon indicated.

Per MLPD: Verizon nor any other cellular service provider ping text, it pings the telephone when the telephone is on, not turned off.
Sonoma Jack

Social climber
Sonoma, ca
Sep 7, 2013 - 05:46am PT
"When camping, I often find myself awak in the middle of the night, and out of boredom or curiosity turn the phone on to check email, check the weather forecast, or whatever. A lot of spots on the East Side have cellular data reception."

Yes, true, but as duly stated, Matt had no history, whatsoever, of doing anything like this. You pull a month of records, you would think you would see some kind of pattern. His pattern was, apparently that of being sound asleep at 3am. The cell call here is peculiar, and I'm in no way implying some sort of foul play, as that just doesn't seem likely.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July..

So, what does this piece of data mean, since it's not a ping (12 hours after the last known activity on his phone)?
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