Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 2, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Details of Matt's Disappearance

Overview:
Matt was hiking/climbing with some friends in the Mammoth Lakes region and staying at the Shady Rest campground. Prior to his disappearance he happened upon some car trouble (his Subaru blew a head gasket). Matt stayed behind while his car was repaired at the Norco Goodyear repair shop with plans to meet up with friends in CO down the line. His last known phone call was to the repair shop around 4:30 pm on July 16th, with some texts to said friend around 8-8:30 that same night. Additionally, his last use of credit cards was a purchase in mammoth lakes that same day.
-
When Matt did not meet up with friends as planned, it was discovered that his car was waiting, fixed, for over a week and he had not returned to the campsite where his gear was and where he had been paying day-to-day in antipation of his car being ready on the 18th and moving on. Matt's friends called the MLPD, and Detective Hornbeck then called my parents. Matt's cell phone is dead and/or untraceable. It's also possible that it's damaged or he is just somewhere he can't get a signal; there is no way to tell. The last signal was traced to a cell phone tower on top of Mammoth Mountain that was pointing north towards the main ski area.

Anyone with information about the whereabouts of Matthew Greene is requested to contact the Mammoth Lakes Police Department at (760) 934-2011 or the Mono County Sheriffs Office at (760) 932-7549 X17.

Credit: TeddyKGBee

Description of Matt:
Matt is 39, approximately 5'11", 155 lb, with blondish/brown short hair and blue eyes. He had a blue hat, and was probably wearing a long sleeve shirt with a darker (green/black) short sleeve on top.

Gear:
He was carrying a large black/white backpack (pictured directly in back of his car in the picture), yellow LaSportiva Nepal Extremes boots, crampons, and one ice axe. He did not have his tent, bivvy, sleeping bag, stove, or green heavy jacket indicating he only expected to do a day hike.

Last known contacts:
His Father via phone: July 16th
Friend via text (no info): night of July 16th

Thinking of Matt's possible hikes/climbs:
According to his interest, proximity, and limited information and conversations that he had with others prior to his disappearance, the search has focused on the Mt Ritter and Banner area, Minaret's. OnJuly 11th, he climbed Clyde Minaret, the same day he talked to a local about Ritter, banner, and the cross country hike between Ediza, Iceberg, Cecile, and Minaret lake.

There was also reason to believe that he was interested in climbing Lyell, but that was put into question as to the feasibility of transportation to from Mammoth Lake at an early enough time to do it in one day.

Experience:
Matt was a very experienced climber, hiker, runner, and in very good shape. He'll get on 5.10 trad with a good partner he trusts, but would tone it down when climbing with someone new. He does not free solo as a habit, but is very comfortable on 4th and easy 5th class. He has climbed a few of the classic routes in Tuolumne (west crack, regular route) and a couple of routes in Yosemite around Bishop's Terrace. I believe he has been on tenaya, cathedral and conness in past years. Matt also has a lot of experience in the backcountry and on long hikes. A 30 mile day would be nothing for Matt to consider. He would feel comfortable doing most solo hikes/climbs in the park and surrounding areas.

Search efforts to date:
SAR was out on both Ritter and Banner last weekend as well as had a chopper that covered some of the snow fields for about 30 minutes. The registries for Ritter and Banner were not signed by Matt. Without more information, they couldn't proceed with further efforts. Additionally, to make things harder, the area that is suggested as a possibility is in another county jurisdiction, which makes organizing the search more challenging for allocating resources.

Right now, SAR has put together some flyers asking for anyone and everyone hiking and climbing in those areas to CHECK the registries. Please do so if you're out there and help spread the word. This will be posted at all major climber hangouts in the region, but please help to spread this via word of mouth. The focus areas is in the Minerats right now since the limited info suggests that more so than any other location. However, there is always the possibility of the wildcard and he jumped the YART and headed into the park.

All permit offices were checked and those with permits from the time frame before and after he was missing are being contacted. Matt was known to get an early start, so it's very possible that he could have been the 1st one on the trail.

In addition to the backcountry search, his credit cards, cell phone (which is dead) are being tracked.

Some of Matt's friends are heading out west this weekend to continue to search. If anyone is interested in helping, please let me know and I will get you the details as soon as I have them.

Other Resources:

1. Facebook page: www.facebook.com/findmattgreene
2. Flickr Page with lots of photos: http://www.flickr.com/groups/findmattgreene/
3. Flyer: http://socalcrisis.org/findmattgreene
4. Mono County Sheriff: http://www.monosheriff.org/
5. And tons of news stories (google Matthew Greene, Missing)

INFO MAP:

Here is a map that catalogues the suggestions and some search efforts from this and other forums. I will try to add it as new info becomes available. Please provide suggestions for info to add.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zn3r74pmynOE.kUAGPbbv8mwo
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Bump! to keep at at the top, but not sure from what I read that he's actually "missing"....anyone have a date of when he was supposed to be back? Did the mechanic tell him how long it would take to fix his car?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
Bummer. Hope he turns up!
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
After his car broke down, he was planning to stay behind and wait for it. It appears that he decided to do some climbing/hiking while waiting, but never met back up with friends as planned. The last anyone talked to him was on July 16th (his father). His credit card was last used on the 16th in Mammoth Lakes and his cell phone is coming back as a dead battery.

Latest thoughts are that he took a shuttle or got a ride to the meadows and may have attempted Mt. Lyell. MLPD released an official missing person alert and information is being posted throughout the area. Those of us who know Matt are very concerned that he has been out of contact for this long. Please share with anyone that may have been in an areas where they could have crossed paths with Matt.

Tom

Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
Not sure about the route from ML, but Lyell from Tuolumne wouldn't have required crampons at present. However crampons are generally recommended so he could conceivably have brought them if he didn't have a reliable current conditions report. The north face is pretty burnt out at present. Are you theorizing that he left out of Agnew Meadows?
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
How tall is he? Ran into a solo thru-runner on the switchbacks from Lyell Meadow heading to (I think) Agnew meadow on 7/14.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Wasn't Greg Stock up on the Lyell Glacier recently? Should contact him.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
If there was a possibility of snow, Matt would have most likely taken crampons just in-case. As for starting location, I don't know the area very well, but if he did take public transportation, he may have taken the shuttle from ML to Tuolumne- which has service to the area.

Thanks for the info on the 14th- this would have been on the 17th or later
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Yeah sorry, just thought if you were trying to piece the puzzle and trying to understand his motivations, it might be helpful to know where he (maybe) had been the days prior if you didn't already know. Looks perhaps like the guy we saw.

Here's a photo of the North side of Lyell 7/14. Lyell/Maclure Col is on the right out of frame.

Mt. Lyell
Mt. Lyell
Credit: Stevee B

Good luck and hoping for the best.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Thanks, Stevee- I really appreciate the info and will share it with others. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Tom
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Aug 2, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Don't have much to add, just wishing that your friend will be found and be ok.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
In talking with Matt's Friends who were last with him and are communicating with local authorities, they feel strongly that he either attempted Mt Lyell from Tuolumne or Mt. Banner/Ritter in Mammoth Lakes on July 17th. They went through his car and gear and based off of past conversations with Matt, agree that one of these areas were likely scenarios for him. They are leaning more toward Mt. Lyell.

Search and Rescue can't initiate a search without more concrete information on where he may have gone. Until that happens or until S&R makes the decision to go anyway, the hope is that some locals or others in the area could head out this weekend and search these two mountains. If anyone is able to do that, please let me know. I'm not sure if anything formal can get established between now and then (I and several of his friends are on the East coast), but just having people out there walking these areas would be extremely useful.

Thank you!
Tom
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Aug 2, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
A reminder for us to tell somebody what our plans are or leave a note in the car.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Post this as a BOLO on all other hiker/climber forums to get the word out.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 2, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Wishing you LUCK here..
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 2, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
Damn. That guy looks really familiar. His picture jumps off the page.

Ever look at mug shots down at the local police station? They tell you not to spend a lot of time, just go through the images. If you see the person you're looking for they will jump out at you. Matt's picture did this.

Unfortunately it's not a recent sighting. I'll be thinking positive stuff about this, hoping for the best of all possible outcomes.

neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 2, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
hey there say, all, will keep this in mind, in my prayers...

just saw this... sure hope they find him...

but first, of course, the area where they think he is...
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
Kris, I too, had the same reaction. Can't seem to place the face.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 2, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
Matthew Greene is a 39 year old male white, 511, approximately 155 pounds, with brownish-blonde short hair and brown eyes.

hmmmm...

Gunks Guy

Trad climber
Woodstock, NY
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
Article Discussing Missing Man:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/bethlehem/index.ssf/2013/08/bethlehem_man_missing_near_cal.html

Facebook Page Setup to Help Locate Him:
https://www.facebook.com/findmattgreene
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
I'll mention to others about interviewing the shuttle drivers. It's been some time since he would have taken it, but perhaps they remember a conversation or reference to plans (or at least confirm that he was on it). For those of you that may recognize him, Matt has climbed for the past 5-6 summers out west at various locations. He is very personable and has a humble personality. He's the first to help out if someone needed something. I can't event count the number of times he helped to get someone out of a jam. Thanks for all of the help!

A picture of Matt with his car and some gear (if that helps)
A picture of Matt with his car and some gear (if that helps)
Credit: TeddyKGBee

Update:

Yosemite rangers are going to check the logs on Lyett tomorrow. We are looking for someone to go to check Mt. Ritter. If anyone is or can go out there this weekend, that would be very much appreciated.
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Hi guys,

I am a maintenance worker at Devils Postpile NM. I ride the shuttle bus every day from Mammoth to work at the Postpile. My birthday is july 16th. I was on the first bus of the day at 7:15 that morning. I think there is a possibility that I saw Matthew that morning. There is also a possibility this interaction occurred on the 11 or 12 of july. The person I spoke with fits his description very well. He was wearing glasses on the bus and told me about how his subaru blew a head gasket. He said he had been in Mammoth for several days. He had a medium sized day pack. No gear was attached to the outside. I believe he said he was from the east coast. maybe PA or NY... We spoke about doing Ritter, Banner, Clyde, and the cross country hike between Ediza, Iceberg, Cecile, and Minaret lake. He was unclear of his itinerary for the day when he got of the bus at Devils Postpile. Can anyone confirm any info for me such as his hometown, if he wore glasses, and if he did indeed drive a subaru? There is also a possibility that this interaction occurred on the bus a few days prior, like on july 11 or 12. The reason that I feel the interaction may have happened a few days prior to the 16th is that I think I recall talking about how I was going to do Middle Palisade on the 14th...I just cant be sure when the interaction took place, which is killing me right now... I am leaning more towards prior to the 16th. Can anyone say if he had been day tripping into the reds meadow valley in the days prior to his disappearance? His photo and physical build jumped right out at me. The fact about the car also jumped out at me. My gut and the facts presented tells me Matthew is the person I had this interaction with, and that is occurred prior to the 16th. I just cant place the exact date. I have been in contact with the Mono County Sheriff... sending good vibes to all his family and friends...
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
I just saw the pic posted above. I am certain my interaction was with Matthew... again I just cant place the date...the more I think about it, the more I remember talking about DOING middle palisade on the 14th. The more I think, the more I feel our interaction happened prior to my bday on the 16th. I think I am just conflicted on dates because since it was my bday, it is jumping out at me for some weird reason. again I have contacted the Mono County Sheriff and hope to god this turns out good.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
ddsstyle-

It sounds like you most certainly did talk with Matt. I am sharing this info with others involved. Thank you so much for this information and sharing as it helps to identify some possible plans. I can't thank you enough.

Tom
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
no problem. I am sharing this with everyone that I know in mammoth that hikes and with everyone that works at the Postpile. I am considering doing ritter or banner on my day off sunday so i'll check registers as well.
Ian Jewell

climber
Aug 2, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
when dis his car blow the head gasket ?
if it was after the 12th , then dd saw him after , not before
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
dd-

I just got confirmation that Matt was on the bus on the 11th and climbed Clyde Mineret that day. When you talked with him, was he looking for beta on clyde or did he talk about having done it. It's possible that he did another hike out that way on the 16th. The 17th is the day he went missing. Were you by chance on the bus that day?

Tom
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
SAR just rechecked the guidebook and Ritter and Banner were torn out. Matt always does this right before his trip. I feel confident that he was going there. We really need to check that log book. If anyone is going there or could go tomorrow, that would be extremely helpful.
ruppell

climber
Aug 2, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Mono county SAR has a really good team. I know some of them check this site. I'd say that having those pages missing in all that is needed to at least mount a small search. If the pages from Lyell where still there that narrows it down for me. Best of luck in getting the search started. There's so many ways to go up there it will be a needle in a haystack type thing but at least make the effort I say.
Leggs

Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
Aug 2, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Oh goodness...
positive energy... positive thoughts...
positive energy ... positive thoughts...


~peace
Powder

Trad climber
the Flower Box
Aug 2, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
^^^^^ x 10000

Wishing & hoping for a positive outcome...
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2013 - 10:09pm PT
Lyell pages were untouched. Ritter/Banner were only snow routes in the area of torn pages and Matt was geared for snow. All signs are pointing to Ritter right now. I'll post any other info that I get.
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 2, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
Hey Teddy -

Hoping for the best. Reading this bit from the article linked above gives hope:

"It's not like I heard from him every week," she said, describing her son as a loner who loved being in the wild.

"He just kind of liked to do his own thing," she said, adding that he lives by himself in Bethlehem.

Hornbeck said Greene would often go off on a hike and not return phone or other messages until he emerged a week or so later.

Pulling for you, Matthew.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 2, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
Wishing for best outcomes. Please folks be safe out there & ALWAYS leave an itinerary with someone no matter how goofy that seems and no matter how much of a "loner" you feel you are.

ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 3, 2013 - 12:09am PT
I am climbing up to the snowfield (possibly more) at Ritter tomorrow with two other SAR members. I will keep you posted
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2013 - 12:17am PT
Thank you, dd. That's great news. Best of luck and be safe. You're a really great person for doing this.

Tom
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
Aug 3, 2013 - 12:27am PT

))) sending positive energy (((


T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 3, 2013 - 12:34am PT
I am climbing Ritter tomorrow with two other SAR members ...
It goes without saying -- be careful out there.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 3, 2013 - 02:14am PT
All the best to you in your search and to Matt!

Eric
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Aug 3, 2013 - 02:40am PT
For what its worth three separate near-misses I have had in the area:

1) Ritter Pass, or maybe we were off-route hard Class 3 traverse at the top; we backed off.
2) The bergschrund /calving snowfield on the south side of Lake Catherine. Nearly slipped into this one once on a solo trip.
3) The iced snowfield way, way above Upper Marie Lake; if up there, the shear cliff below is unseen when perilously crossing the slippery and icy snowfield.

Theres a lot of places up there prone to mishap. Best wishes for a happy conclusion to this story.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2013 - 09:35am PT
Latest update-

There is a group going to Lyell today to check the summit register. dd and a group of SAR members are heading to Ritter. Also, the helicopter got the green light!!! All of you that have provided information here and in other forums, thank you! Please know that the support and and knowledge of the climbing community really helped to make all of this happen. Being back on the east coast makes this very hard for me and many of Matt's friends and family. Thanks to all of you, those 3000 miles don't seem quite as far. Thank you!

Tom
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Aug 3, 2013 - 09:51am PT
Hoping for the best but 2 weeks is a long time.
Good vibes sent to Matt and SAR.
Tad
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Aug 3, 2013 - 11:06am PT
bump
Leggs

Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
Aug 3, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
bump
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 3, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
bump
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 3, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Bump...

I hope you find him well.

AFS
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 3, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
More positive vibes sent from my direction.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Aug 3, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
Wishing you and your friend well!!!
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Aug 3, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
Positive vibes bump.
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Aug 3, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
bump
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 4, 2013 - 12:53am PT
Bump.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 4, 2013 - 09:26am PT
Today's Update:

Crews went into Ritter yesterday and concentrated on the lower areas. They did not summit, but individuals are working to get a helicopter to transport a team to the summit team today to the base of the snowfield. Also, plan is to have the chopper do a aerial search a little after noon today if conditions with the fire cooperate.

Again, if anyone is going to Ritter or Lyell, please check the registers. Also, if anyone knows of individuals that have submitted these peaks in the last several weeks, please let us know. I will continue to post any additional info that I have.

Thank you-
Tom
ninjah

Big Wall climber
a van down by the river
Aug 4, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Bump!!!
pc

climber
Aug 4, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
Very positive thoughts down that way. Gripping situation that hits close to home. I regularly head out on my own and rarely tell anyone where I'm going. Good reminder...

Hope he just walks out on his own.

pc
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 4, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Every time I see this thread my breathing stops for an instant knowing it could go either way. I'm leaning way towards my momentary breathlessness being replaced with an outrageous gasp of joy !!!! Yes yes yes. Vibes .. For everything to conclude with joyous dancing


Susan
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Aug 4, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
bump
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 4, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
hey there say, all... just checking in...
he is not forgotten... prayers for all that are
looking, as well..
micronut

Trad climber
Aug 4, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
I don't know matt, but he's a member of the tribe. Just spent a quiet few minutes in prayer for Matt and his friends and family. For God to grant him stamina and strength and bravery if he's out there hurt. For wisdom and direction for those looking for him and for peace beyond understanding for those close to him who are at home waiting for news. I hope he's just on a longer than planned walkabout and that we get good news soon.

Scott
ruppell

climber
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
Micronut,

Well put. I think where all here hoping against hope. Sometimes that's all you can do. I do think Teddy putting it here made the whole thing go a lot faster than had the normal channels been taken. That in and of itself is enough for me. The search teams are in place and the bird has the go ahead. If any of you pray for anything, pray for a wind shift once that bird leaves the ground. With the aspen fire going it's super thick right now. A clear line of sight from the air would make the operation so much easier.
ElCapPirate

Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
Aug 4, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Hoping for the best...
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 4, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
This stays on top in hopes that someone with information catches it.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 4, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
up again
mdavid

Big Wall climber
High Springs, FL
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
I hope they find him
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
Bumpity Bump
Leggs

Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
Aug 4, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
I truly believe if we continue to put out into the universe great vibes for a positive outcome, it shall happen.

~positive vibes... positive images..... positive thoughts... positive energy



~Peace
Edge

Trad climber
New Durham, NH
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:01am PT
Miracles happen every day if you allow them to, so I am holding onto the best possible outcome and sending my thoughts and prayers that it be so.
Powder

Trad climber
the Flower Box
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:13am PT
^^^^^^^^^
upthread
2 x 20000

Truly hoping for the positive outcome
ShawnInPaso

climber
Paso Robles, CA
Aug 5, 2013 - 01:41am PT
bump
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 5, 2013 - 02:03am PT
Saw a chopper headed out there at about 5 pm.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Aug 5, 2013 - 08:10am PT
Hoping for a good outcome !!!!!
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:11am PT
The sound of a heli will give him hope, even if it doesn't find him initally. It can be enough to keep fighting.
avid

Trad climber
Colorado Springs
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Bump
klaus

Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:46am PT
I'm hoping beyond all odds that Matt is somehow OK
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
Aug 5, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Thoughts & heart & hope & strength beyond measure to Matt, and everyone anxiously awaiting his return.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Aug 5, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Here's another for Matt! This is definitely in the forefront of my mind.More positive vibes.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
Here is the latest (posted from his family):

I received updates through Bill w/ SAR and ran through everything with Matts friend Tony as well. Unfortunately, the search did not yield anything. The helicopter was able to do an aerial while the ground crews were out but they did not uncover any evidence of Matt. They did take a bunch of pictures while they were out that they will be reviewing and zooming in on to make sure nothing was missed. He did not sign the registers at the top of Banner or Ritter. Yosemite is still suppose to check the one at Lyell, though SAR does not think it's probable he would be there. SAR took pictures of the registers and are also pulling what info they can from permits issued to try and call/email those individuals to see if anyone might have any info on Matt. The fellow from the repair station is not of any circumstance; he was back a few days now and was actually part of SAR; the only thing Matt spoke to him about was his car repair. They went through Matt's gear again and established that he was not equipped for overnight; tent/bivvy/sleeping bag/stove/heavy jacket were all still with gear. Additionally, no rope or technical equipment was missing so they don't believe he was attempting any climbs. That about sums it up; I'll be editing the notes too with all this. I really think at this point that we need nationwide media coverage to get new leads and get them quick. I've contacted the major ones (Fox, NBC, CNN) but need to hound them more to get some attention brought to this story ASAP.
highcamp

Trad climber
Bay Area, CA
Aug 5, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
Still sending good vibes.

Tom, any possibility of passing along those high-res images and 'crowdsourcing' the search to a degree. I remember the friends of Gil Weiss and Ben Horne did that when the two went missing in Peru, and a ton of folks (me included) poured over those photos for hours trying to help. It's a long shot, and I'm sure getting the pics from the government would be hard, but it's something, and I know we'd all pitch in to help.

Erik
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 5, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Contact TomNod, the company that provided the sat photos when Ben and Gil went missing in Peru. The crowd-sourcing efforts proved to be highly beneficial to SAR.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
Thanks for the suggestion. I contacted TomNod and also created a Flickr page for Matt. I have my photos uploaded and hopefully more will be added soon.

Please take a moment and take a look at the Flickr Page that was created for Matt. There are photos on there and a few videos of Matt. Please share with anyone that may have been in the area in the past couple of weeks. If more people see his face, maybe somebody will remember something.

http://www.flickr.com/groups/findmattgreene/

Thanks-

Tom

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
That's not really necessary, crank.
James Wilcox

Boulder climber
The Coast
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Assuming Matt is the Sierras. It would seem the scope is expanding, rather than narrowing.
murcy

Gym climber
sanfrancisco
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
No, look above; it seems he had very little stuff, and no bivvy gear.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
We all know the odds, but more than that, we know Matt and he is a strong and smart person. Right now, we need information more than anything else, so as usual, please keep sharing with individuals that may have been in the area over the past couple of weeks. Thank you to everyone who has been helping to get this out to the community.

Tom
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
Last year, a buddy of mine from San Diego posted a suicide FB status, shut off his phone, and hit the road. One of his friends created a FB page where all of his friends and strangers could post up ideas, including his habits, interests, skills, etc. We had half of Cali on a BOLO. I mentioned that he would probably be in Yosemite, and later I would be correct.

So, if Matt is on FB, create a page and start spreading the word. Post it up on Twitter and you will shet yourself when you see the word spread like wildfire.
ShawnInPaso

climber
Paso Robles, CA
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/findmattgreene?hc_location=stream

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 5, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Odds are odd. There isn't much in life more important than doing everything possible for the ones you love.

nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:38pm PT

Odds are odd. There isn't much in life more important than doing everything possible for the ones you love.

+++++
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:43pm PT
At this point is it possible to see who had wilderness permits in the area at the time he went missing? This seems a bit odd that he took NO gear. Foul play a possible here.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
We spoke about doing Ritter, Banner, Clyde, and the cross country hike between Ediza, Iceberg, Cecile, and Minaret lake. He was unclear of his itinerary for the day when he got of the bus at Devils Postpile.
Was Clyde Minaret (area) searched?
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
Matt was at Clyde on the 11th. It was one place that we know he went. All permits were searched and SAR is contacting those who had permits in the area to talk with them. Thanks!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 5, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
I had a friend disappear a few years ago from Sacramento. Four days later he turned up in Reno and did not remember how he got there. A bartender in Sac remembered him having drinks and leaving "wasted" with a shady looking guy. He didn't talk about the incident and withdrew from most of his friends.

Clearly an accident in the mountains is not the only (or worst) scenario, especially if he caught a ride with someone. All you can do is hope for the best.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 12:16am PT
I assumed that is what happened... and I fail to see any humor in it.
R and Y

Trad climber
CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:20am PT
Hey Tom Sorry to hear about your friend. If I were in your shoes I would I would talk to the folks at Tom Brown's tracker school and ask for help. I've taken a few classes from Tom and his instructors and they are a pretty impressive group of people. There is a search and forensic tracking team associated with the school and they will come out and lend you a hand if you ask. You can get ahold of them through Tom Brown's school website at www.trackerschool.com.

best of luck
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:26am PT
If he took no overnight gear, his plans should have been somewhat close to his departure point you would think.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:57am PT
Could he have gotten a ride? His car broke down, hitch hiking...

But that's not a good route to let your mind wander down.
Guernica

climber
right there, right then
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:24am PT
Great idea R & Y.

Warmest thoughts for your friend, and the very best of luck in your search.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Aug 6, 2013 - 11:11am PT
bump!
rlf

Trad climber
Josh, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
I hate bringing things like this up, and it's never a pleasant subject. Is there a chance that maybe he had some issues in his life he may have been hiding from those close to him?
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Sending more good vibes. Hoping for the best possible outcome.
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Took this photo on the 17th. These guys had just topped out on Zodiac.

Probably not him.

Just curious, why are his eyes listed as brown, but they look blue in the photo posted of him?

Credit: Crazy Bat
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Doesn't look like Matt.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
dats dodds
PeteC

climber
Aug 6, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
That pic is Mammoth Locals Brett Dodds and cousin Cameron.

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 6, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
^^^Those guys TOTALLY cheated on the Zodiac....I saw them fixing those ladders on the crux!

: )
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Aug 6, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
I hate bringing things like this up, and it's never a pleasant subject. Is there a chance that maybe he had some issues in his life he may have been hiding from those close to him?

I think it's always something to ask. I cant remember exactley but I recall an incident in supertopo history where it actaully happend. Some kid had traveled off to Bishop without informing his family, purposefully. This situation just doesnt feel the same to me.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
hey there all, say, ... just stopped in, hoping...


i did not realize it had been this long, :(
since he was missing, ...
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
Not to worry Cragman, those are aid ladders. And clean to boot!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Aug 6, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
That guys eyes are amazingly blue. It should make him easier to pick out of a crowd.

I hope he comes hiking out tomorrow.

I've done a bunch of really psycho hikes in my life. One time I carried an old EPIRB, but I always tell people that if a quick search doesn't find me, don't bother. I'm always changing my mind and heading through a different pass or river valley.

If anyone gets lost or injured, the way to signal searchers is to grab whatever you can and make the biggest "X" on the ground that you can. Put it in an open spot and make it as easy to see as possible. They will find that X in no time simply by flying over the different drainages.

Also carry a couple of basics.

My number one basic that I always carry is an extra large lawn garbage bag. They make great little shelters to crawl inside. Just poke a hole for breathing. I heard about that trick from a story of Bridwell using a garbage bag or a light bivy sack on the Moose's Tooth. They work great.

You can carry a PLB, but few do. They are expensive. The difference between a PLB and the old EPIRB's is that a PLB transmits your precise GPS coordinates to the SAR/SAT system. I'm not sure if they still do this, but you used to have to register them to yourself. When they got your signal, they instantly know who and where you are.

An EPIRB is just a beacon, and needs directional receivers to precisely find you.

The giant X is the most important thing. Way better than a signal mirror.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 6, 2013 - 06:49pm PT

"The giant X is the most important thing. Way better than a signal mirror."



Actually, the International Distress Signal is 3 of anything.....flashes of light, whistle blasts, logs laid out next to each other, hash marks tracked out in the snow, etc.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Just saw this in the LA Times. Hopefully media coverage will generate some leads.

Am wishing Matt is okay out there somewhere.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-ln-missing-hiker-eastern-sierra-20130806,0,4934872.story
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Ritter & Banner beckon from Mammoth. Lyell does not.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 6, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
crankster spewed
Not interested in the opinion of an extremist right-winger, DJ.

I hope I'm wrong. Matt looks like a gentle, wonderful person. But 17/18 days missing in the High Sierra makes for long odds.

Holy jumping to conclusions on all counts, Batman.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Hi everyone-

Again, thanks for all of the help, ideas, leads, etc. As all of you can probably guess, this is extremely hard for those of us that know Matt. It's almost impossible to describe every last detail that we know, but I will try to provide the latest update and thinking by those involved in the search efforts.

Matt went missing on July 17th. His last contact with someone was on the evening of the 16th.

Matt's car broke down and he was in Mammoth Lakes staying at the Shady Rest Campground. His car was being fixed in town and was scheduled to be finished on the 18th. Matt was in town, from what we know, on the 16th. He was on a computer (we suspect the library) as indicated by a summit post forum post about water intoxication around 2:45 on the 16th. He talked with his father that day and texted a friend that night (around 9:00PM). He gave no indication to anyone that we know of that day what his plans were. His last cell phone ping came from Mammoth Mt., which would have been the tower from Mammoth Lakes

We suspect that on the 17th, Matt decided to do a day climb/hike as he took no overnight gear with him. He had a large pack and gear for snow, which indicates that he was thinking that snow was a possibility (crampons, Mountaineering axe, and boots). He had no bivy gear and it clearly seems like he had every intention of coming back that same day.

Matt was happy and loved life. He was a quiet guy, but happy to have a conversation with anyone that wanted to talk. He met a lot of people on his trips, so it's likely that he talked to someone that we weren't in contact with yet. As for questions about depression, while valid ones to ask, they do not make sense in this case or for Matt.

Matt had no transportation, so would have used his own two feet, hitched a ride, or more likely taken the shuttle. He was used to riding the shuttle as he did another hike on the 11th to do Clyde Minerat. I understand that he may have done another one in the Minerats as well. He talked about this with a fellow climber on what we believe was the 11th, but gave no indication of definitive plans and the info he was given covers a fairly large area. This person was also participating with SAR.
Matt had pages torn out of his guide book for the entire Minerat area, which covers approximately a 5 mile by 20 mile area, which included both Ritter and Banner (hence the search of the summit registers). Neither register was signed by Matt as reported by search teams. Other speculated that he may have attempted Lyell, but that would have required an early start that the shuttle service wouldn't provide. There are a lot of options in the Minerats, which would have been likely choices for Matt.

SEARCH

SAR was out on both Ritter and Banner last weekend as well as had a chopper that covered some of the snow fields for about 30 minutes. Without more information, they couldn't proceed with further efforts. Additionally, to make things harder, the area that is suggested as a possibility is in another county jurisdiction, which makes organizing the search more challenging for allocating resources.

Right now, SAR has put together some flyers asking for anyone and everyone hiking and climbing in those areas to CHECK the registries. Please do so if you're out there and help spread the word. This will be posted at all major climber hangouts in the region, but please help to spread this via word of mouth. The focus areas is in the Minerats right now since the limited info suggests that more so than any other location. However, there is always the possibility of the wildcard and he jumped the YART and headed into the park.

All permit offices were checked and those with permits from the time frame before and after he was missing are being contacted. Matt was known to get an early start, so it's very possible that he could have been the 1st one on the trail.

Right now, the missing piece to the puzzle is information. We need something, however small, to help hone in on his location or possible plans. If there is anything that you wish you could do, it's spread the word. Some resources are available for this including:

1. Facebook page: www.facebook.com/findmattgreene
2. Flickr Page with lots of photos: http://www.flickr.com/groups/findmattgreene/
3. Flyer: http://socalcrisis.org/findmattgreene
4. Mono County Sheriff: http://www.monosheriff.org/
5. And tons of news stories (google Matthew Greene, Missing)

I will try to provide any additional info that I get or clarify something that is missing. It is challenging to get everything out, but I and his other friends and family will do our best. Please continue to share. Miss you, Matt.

Tom
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Aug 7, 2013 - 12:28am PT
bump
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 12:45am PT
It has to be Ritter. It can be done in a long day, so no need for overnight gear. No evidence he had previously climbed it, from what I've read, so would have been an obvious goal. He likely took his big pack to carry his bulky mountaineering boots. There's little snow in the Sierra this summer which points to the Southeast Glacier route.
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 7, 2013 - 01:03am PT
Staying positive that Matt will return. There was a statement that resonated from his mother; that he likes to be alone in the wilderness, and often does not contact her for weeks after an adventure.
Has anyone checked Wilderness permits in Tuolumne and Mammoth Lakes. I live in the area, and the areas mentioned Mt.Lyell and Ritter/Banner are well traveled zones; someone has seen him if he is in these areas. Stay hopeful the climbing community is very small. My eyes are open.
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 7, 2013 - 01:13am PT
Another bit of information..If Matt decided to climb Ritter/Banner he would need to travel to Agnew Meadows via the Tram from Main Lodge @ Mammoth Mountain (unless he went in prior to 6am),then he would have to go in with someone and a car. When one pays for a ticket a form is filled out for your intentions for the day(s). Has anyone checked the Tram logs(private company,not run by forest service)?

T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 7, 2013 - 01:44am PT
I appreciate the OP's effort and dilligence, but this seems a story that will have to be solved in time.
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 7, 2013 - 01:46am PT
Bump...

Keep posting up on every site.

If I ever lost Bill or my son out there, I would do everything and anything to find them.
mattyj

Mountain climber
Truckee
Aug 7, 2013 - 02:00am PT
Tom, one thing that I haven't seen mentioned here is a description of the gear Matt brought with him. It sounds like you may know this, or at least be able to take a reasonable guess, since you know what was missing from his campsite.

Sometimes I recognize gear as much as or more than faces. I've passed people on the trail where 2 minutes later I couldn't tell you what their face looked like, but I can remember what color pack they had or what shoes they were wearing, because that triggered something in my brain - whether it's a piece of gear I want, or I momentarily went "that's the same helmet so-and-so has".

Could be enough to jog someone's memory.

I just want to say this: In the limited number of SARs like this that I've been involved with, active involvement by friends/family makes a huge difference in the outcome. There are so many possibilities, and one person seeing a flier or a report on the news and having an "aha!" moment can totally change the direction of the search. Keep up the good work, keep people informed, and keep trying to get the story carried as far and wide as possible.

In this recent case, it took two months for someone to connect the dots and bring forward a vital piece of information. You never know where that next lead might come from.
QITNL

climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 02:37am PT
If I could express one thought, it would be my admiration for the love shared by Matt's family and friends. That transcends time and place. Hold on to it.

Questions such as "depression?" seem warranted as there seems to be a missing piece in this puzzle, it doesn't add up. Thanks for filling in some blanks.

As a solo hiker myself, objective hazards are a constant concern. From my experience with Ritter/Banner/Minarets the foremost hazard is loose rock.

If you think he went up Ritter, putting myself in the hiker's head: on a dayhike the southeast glacier is out of the way, that wouldn't be intuitive. And it's too low-angle to get too hurt. Instead, you'd head to the Ritter/Banner notch, the closest path to the top. Everything up to there is fairly safe, well travelled. From the saddle, it's a little tricky and very loose. Even John Muir bellyached about it. So if you really think he went up Ritter, I'd start there and scour up.

Of course this is just conjecture, but I'm trying to look at the face of it, not to read into it. Much respect and best luck.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 7, 2013 - 03:03am PT
From my experience with Ritter/Banner/Minarets the foremost hazard is loose rock.
I assume the snowfields ice-up even in summer 'til mid morning(?), depending on direct sun. I once took a ride down one I'll never forget.
Sheik aka JD

Trad climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 03:25am PT
Bad month to be named Matthew Green. First my best bud from childhood (different Matt Green) is in a critical car crash. Now this. Been following this via the Mammoth newspaper...ugh
mdavid

Big Wall climber
High Springs, FL
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:59am PT
Hoping for the best, however the window is closing fast. Hopefully he found a young college gal with tons of party favors and is enjoying himself hiking around the area...there's always hope.
Dave Johnson

Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Sad & distressing story. I can't imagine what his family is going through. Without being too critical, I'd like to suggest that anyone thinking of solo adventuring in the High Sierra take pause. It takes only a minute to let someone know where you are going, by what route and when you plan to return.

The Sierra is a wild mountain range, despite it's relative friendliness in terms of summer weather. It would be easy to disappear. Last fall a hiker, Larry Conn, went on a solo backpacking trip over Taboose Pass and never returned. He had only vaguely mentioned his itinerary. A massive search was conducted by air & ground despite an early season snow storm. Not a trace. Sadly, his remains were recently found near the Taboose Pass trail. His tent had been set up, however, none of the searchers had spotted it the previous fall.

I hope Matt's story has a happier ending and he learns a valuable lesson.
micronut

Trad climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:17am PT
Checking this thread a couple times a day makes me feel strangely engaged. I have never me Matt...the first I've heard of him was this thread, but I feel oddly connected and concerned. Its a funny thing about climbing, how we all share in eachother's stories. Its different than any other "group"....ie; my church, my fellow physicians, fellow swimmers....I'm very connected in many other life spheres to many other people. Being a professional swimmer for much of my life, I'm very connected to all swimmers, from age groupers, to past Olympians, to US team members. When twenty something year old US member Fan Crippen died during an open water race a few years back, our whole sport mourned. But climbing for some reason transcends that. I'm just musing a bit about why the connection is so strong, and why I'm truly concerned and hopeful for a safe return for Matt, a guy I've never met. I'm sure most of you share my sentiments. What a strange thing, this climbing tribe. I'm often humbled by its breadth and strength. If you're out there Matt, stay strong. To his family, I pray for peace and steadfast hope and endurance in the days to come.

Scott

returning from a long day on Matthes Crest
returning from a long day on Matthes Crest
Credit: micronut
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 02:26pm PT
Bump
splitclimber

climber
Sonoma County
Aug 7, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
hoping for a good outcome

any searches along the mammoth crest near hammill lakes. probably still a little snow in those couloirs that would be an easy day trip and a fun snow climb.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Splitclimber may be on to something. If I remember correctly Shady Rest campground is the one in town near Mcdonalds. If no record from shuttle drive to Agnew Meadows I would agree that Mammoth Crest area would be an easy hitch hike.

Sky Meadow, Deer Lake and Purple Lake/Duck Pass area are all day-hike destinations that should be looked into.

Still hoping for the right outcome.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 7, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Virtually all of the snow chutes above the Mammoth Lakes Basin have already melted out.
drunkenmaster

Social climber
santa rosa
Aug 7, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Credit: drunkenmaster
Leggs

Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
Aug 7, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
bump
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
These types of cases are VERY frustrating for SAR. The MOST important asset a SAR team has in regards to a search...is information. With adequate information, the search area can be tightened tremendously.

In this case, VERY little is known. Subsequently, the search is literally hundreds of square miles of VERY rugged terrain.

That being said, it is VERY important that the search not get myopic in scope. As has been suggested throughout this thread, there are SO many objectives that would be attractive to someone of Matthew's experience and ability.

As for the amount of time that has lapsed since he was last heard from....yes, the odds are not real good. However, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen the odds defied.

When SAR teams go out, we do so with the intention of finding the subject alive and in need of our assistance. Until that has proven otherwise, Matthew is out there needing help.

Any suggestion otherwise is a contradiction in human dignity.
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Perhaps this is being done but are the local authorities putting the missing flier up at all the Mammoth, Reds Meadows and local area trailheads? They all have map/bear info boards, toilets, etc. at their parking areas and the more people see it the better. Maybe someone coming out from a backpacking trip has seen Matthew back in there - who knows?

So at this point was the last known sighting of or conversation with Matthew aboard the Reds Meadows Shuttle (or was it a town shuttle that drops at Main Lodge)? And that was mid-July? Or has a later sighting been confirmed (sorry I haven't been able to read all the posts yet).

Sending good vibes out there to all.

franky

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
i apologize for my roommate's ill-informed and insensitive comment. I deleted it.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
Good on ya, Franky.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:41pm PT
He owes you some beer! Definate party foul.
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
Has the flyer been passed out to YARTS?
needledick

climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
Hello Super Topo, I am Needledick, Franky's roomate. Silence is golden, my first error was participating in an internet forum. Moving on... I am not any more ill informed than anyone else. I am a former S&R professional. I also happen to be insensitive at times although I did not intend to hurt any feelings. I just don't understand the gesture of saying that you are hoping for "a good outcome" when clearly things aren't good. Your realization that things aren't good is likely what compelled you to comment that you hoped things "turn out good". I'm not sure how my statement makes things worse although I acknowledge that it certainly doesn't help, but neither do 90% of the other comments in this thread. Lay aside your emotional bias. I don't plan on responding to anymore comments concerning my post so if you really care about the conversation and the family members reading the thread, you will quickly forget it. If you feel like it, flame on, just understand that your target audience wont be listening.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
^Pathetic


Now....back on topic.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Needledick explained

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
I'm not sure how my statement makes things worse

You are on a forum full of SAR pro's Somehow you think we don't know the score?

Suggest you consider that you are not a vulcan. Human factors matter.

Fact. Worse cases have come out positive.

Demotivating folks does not help.

You have a lot to learn about how the world works.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Make sure to help spread the word on Facebook etc.

If it was my buddy missing you'd bet your ASS I wouldn't stop looking.

I've been at north lake out of bishop (SE face Emerson), rock creek bouldering and cathedral/tenaya. No sign of anything, for what it's worth. Not really info that's useful but why not.

Now....back on topic.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
franky- your roommate lives up to his moniker. "insensitive dumbass" would work as well. you live with that person?

edit: I'm assuming needledick is your roomie, but could be wrong since the post was deleted and I missed it.
WBraun

climber
Aug 7, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
climbski2

"Demotivating folks does not help.

You have a lot to learn about how the world works."


100% spot on.


Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
Yeah, that Cragman and Werner ...whadda they know about SAR???
<end sarcasm>

Hey crankster.... FuhQ.

Still hoping for good outcomes to this. It ain't over till it's over.


franky

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:30pm PT
Needle dick is a very good roommate. Just not very experienced in the ways of the internet. He fails to realize that there are real people reading this forum who treat it like a normal conversation. I see what he's saying, I just don't think he's right to say it in the manner he did to whoever is reading this. People who have seen and done enough searches know that less likely scenarios are still pretty common.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
Needle dick is a very good roommate

I guess he pays his rent portion on time.


Susan
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
Agony throws everything off-center. And we are agonizing here. It will be messy.
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:34pm PT

Needle dick is a very good roommate. Just not very experienced in the ways of the internet. He fails to realize that there are real people reading this forum who treat it like a normal conversation. I see what he's saying, I just don't think he's right to say it in the manner he did to whoever is reading this.

There are plenty of other forums/threads on the web to practice trolling that are much more appropriate than this thread. Hope is a very powerful emotion, and sometimes in life, it's all one has to lean on.

Best wishes to the friends and family of the missing.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
Agony throws everything off-center. And we are agonizing here. It will be messy.

Thank you, Peter. What a beautiful capture of some complex stuff.


Susan
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
hey there say, franky and needledick and all...

i sure missed something, it seems, here, as to a post that somehow was
out of order?...

but i have learned by meeting so many folks in the world, that the words may not come out right, or to fit the situations at hand, properly, at times, as compared to the majority, but there can still be care in the heart... i will see this, in this way...

we are all different, i know that... we all have hopes, and yet, fears, as to folks that are lost... :(
i reckon it is coming out in a variety of ways...

but say--we all DO care... we ARE connected to the climber-field in some way or other, and doing the best to post hope, worries, or whatever, in the light of a very bad situation for someone dear to someone's heart...

prayers offered, again, tonight...



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Maybe it's just a simple case of penis envy...? Here's hoping Matthew is found so that we can stop worrying about him...
PITA

Social climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
Tom,

I can't even imagine the frustration and helplessness you must be feeling at this point. My heart goes out to you, your friends and family.

I have never posted on Supertopo before, but have been following your story. Ok, so this might be really lame, but a thought.

This last weekend I was working the PM shift as an RN. During the day, I wake and sleep. When awake, I cruise the TV channels. I clicked on to the "Nancy Grace" show. She has been broadcasting about two missing persons:

1) an amber alert
2) a kidnapped women.

I have no idea how her show works, I am sure there are a lot of cases nationally, but maybe she would televise Matt? Maybe worth a shot.

Anyway Tom, I do wish you good luck in your search.




GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 7, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
If he was a baby in Florida... But no, I can't see Nancy Grace giving this story press - but hey I could be wrong and bad press is good press if it gets attention...
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:06am PT
Crank, yes. But no matter what, we just do not know a thing at this point. Our young man may be fine, he may not. We couldn't possibly know and we have to wait and work.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:11am PT
I hope you're right, Peter. I'd just like someone to present a scenario where he's all right. Other than the one alternative I suggested; that he's missing because he wants to be. I don't see any evidence he would do that.

If I had the slightest clue what area he went to I'd head to Mammoth tonight and look for him. Just because I'm being honest doesn't mean I'm not touched by this story.
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Please; can't we keep this on topic and let go of the slander?
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:37am PT
We have found people missing for a couple of weeks. Hope is always in order until evidence to the contrary is found.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:49am PT
In a perfect world there would be enough personel to do a tight grid-search of everything in a 25 mile radius, but that is too costly and dangerous. The west is still wild, and Caveat emptor to anybody entering these mountains.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:55am PT
Spoke to a Veteran Mono SAR Team Mbr yesterday who works next door to my office in Bishop that was up in the area searching this past weekend. Asked him if they checked the moat along both sides of the Ritter/Banner snowfield. This time of the year they can separate wide enough to allow a human to fall into and then continue down pretty damn far. Up to 30 maybe even 50 feet. Seen em that wide on just that location some 14 years ago. I also personally know how deep they can get. I fell into one on a descent from Black Bear Lake coming over Granite Park Spire Col two years ago. I caught myself before plunging into a black abyss. It was deeper than shet I tell ya. Had I fallen in and got knocked out, (I was solo), I would have NEVER been found.

Something to consider on your search pattern for anyone that goes back up there.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:39am PT

Needledick, I didn't see your original post but you sound reasonable to me. All the people posting "good vibes" bs are saps. Get real, folks. Matt's been missing over 20 days and dimwits like Cragman and Werner, et al, are criticizing you for telling it like it is?

Throw out all the spiritual universe crap you want; it ain't gonna find him any sooner. There's only 2 outcomes at this point likely: he fell on a climb and is dead or is alive and missing because he wants to be. He's not going to be found with a broken ankle by a stream eating berries.



Wow crankster, u r kind of a cynical as#@&%e eh?

Posting negative BS to a hopeful thread & then trying to take it back & saying ur touched, then picking on Tami, then Canada??

Pretty sure nobody will be looking for u when u go missing. I'd recommend that you & needledick start using the buddy system.




Best of luck to all touched by this.
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:49am PT

There is always a chance. Maybe he met some beautiful European and he joined her on an out of the blue trip. Stranger things have happened. I am hoping he is alive and well because the alternative sucks. There is always a chance and it's worth fighting for.
------

Tami,
Your post has the most brilliant spelling. (FuhQ) Yes, I am sitting here and admiring your sharp wit again.

Hugs,
AFS
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:59am PT
20 days out....ugh.

If he took a trip with a blond...you won't find him in the mountains.

When I deal with people involving tragedy....and that is a frequent part of the job.....what I find that they really appreciate is HONESTY. They really hate the deception of smiley faces and absurd positive scenarios.

One always hopes for the best, but should also be realistic and not put other lives at risk or not allow family/friends to prepare.

Pretty sure nobody will be looking for u when u go missing. I'd recommend that you & needledick start using the buddy system.

Wow, an actual threat on someone's life. That's sure positive energy. I'm sure it will be reflected in positive energy spent on your search, as well.

I remember the half-year search for the guy up Taboose. They knew he was dead, but wanted closure. They found him, and now the friends post speculation, because they don't have closure.

What can we learn? The only good thing about such things. We need to learn.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:23am PT
Hey Ken, I didn't mean for my post to come off as a threat on someone's life. That is absolutely ridiculous. You are definitely taking it way out of context. My apologies if anyone interpreted it this way. The post I quoted pissed me off because threads like these are meant to provide hope & positive vibes in a potentially tragic situation, not negate it. I thought that crankster & needledick were being as#@&%es towards the missing hiker & anyone who is close to him- so I stated it. Probably could have been more eloquent but too late now. The buddy system comment was my way of saying they are peas in a pod. Anyways, I really hope that Mathew is ok, wherever he is. Happy trails to this thread.
Guernica

climber
right there, right then
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:04am PT
Good lord Ken, get a grip. Ryan's post was a good-natured jab at team crankdick's poor style. They are indeed two peas in a pod, and would probably be good roommates as well.

Obviously in your line of work, as an MD, people appreciate honesty. This isn't a hospital, it's a thread on an internet forum- a place for well-wishes and helpful feedback from those with ideas or possible intel.

You always seem to have a bad forum-side manner, doc.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 08:09am PT
crank whined
Ugh. People are being rudely criticized for daring to suggest that it's unlikely Matt is alive at this point, when all reason suggest this is the unfortunate truth.

No, crank. What you are your self-described "insensitive" friend needledick are failing to realize is that how you say something in a sensitive situation is probably twice as important as what you say. It's been 20 days. Perhaps you need things spelled out in black and white but everybody here knows what that means and are lending what moral support they can to the family/friends/searchers by saying that they "hope for a good outcome." That does not mean that outcome is likely.

There is a huge difference between saying "man, it's been 20 days. I hate to say it but things are looking pretty grim here" and "put a fork in this guy already stop being morons hoping for the best, you saps."
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 8, 2013 - 08:43am PT
Doctors have scientific minds and with the use of reasoning facts and statistics is how they come up with their conclusions. Bill is like that... It's a very cut and dry. It's actually not meant as rude, just based on data without emotional context.

The rest of us "including me" work with strong emotions and reasoning last. I can appreciate reasoning, but it's not what comes easy for me. I usually am investing into my desired outcome, I am not staring at the data and purely working from there.

That is why doctors sometimes appear insensitive and... Why we can appear naive. Why it's also so much fun proving doctors wrong. Why Captain Kirk always befuddled Spock. The human element does change the whole equation.

The point is... I WANT him to be alright and there is a chance!!!! That chance is everything. Now back to praying...

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:02am PT
for perspective i offer
a recent tale and two,
unfolding nearby,

a friends 6 year old boy drowned in 5' of water at the local resevoir;

another friend's 7 month old took the brunt of daddy's stumble,
with a fractured skull, she faces a heady surgery, not likely to ever be the same.

this boy in our scopes, 39 years old,
living out one mountain drama after another,
comes up missing, maybe perished,
and it is all ok.

it has to be

the 6 year old's journey.
the 7 month old's journey.
the 39 year old's journey.

and each of our's journey.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:35am PT
If you aren't going to be part of and participate in the solution, then stfu and you can leave!
ADM Bull Halsey
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
Any luck getting a helicopter up again?

What about those satellite images that they got for looking for Ben and Gil, any chance we can get something like that for Matt?
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
"One of our Sar guys did talk to him on the bus and they discussed Ritter/banner. That's why we went out there.Bus to reds/ agnew". I received this information from a friend that works for SAR...not sure if it is correct (via Facebook private message), but a SAR group did go up to Ritter area b/c of this information. I was out of town..I wanted to share in hopes that it helps.

Does anyone know if he planned to stay several days "took a large pack". When I do day peak bags, I go fast and light. Minaret traverse?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
Hey crankster, stop acting like a d#@&%e and let people hope, grieve, whatever. Just stop being a jerk. I actually agree with your sentiments, but now isn't the time to voice them. It's called social skills, bud.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Threw this together while at work.

Can we use this and update it to keep current?

Compressed:


Matthew Greene
MISSING: Matthew Greene
MISSING: Matthew Greene
Credit: michaeld

Last Contact:
July 16th (Mammoth Lakes) (Texted a friend around 9pm)
Went Missing on the 17th.

Gear:
Large Backpack (may have stashed somewhere)
Small summit pack
Technical tools

Details:
Almost always signs logs at trail heads
Possible he did a day hike, brought snow gear (No overnight gear)
Made a post on summitpost about water intoxication at 2:45 on the 16th
No car, may have hitchhiked, or taken transit, or hiked.

Locations checked:
Lower areas of Ritter (Nothing)
Registers of Banner and Ritter (No Signature)
Matt was at Clyde on the 11th.

Possible locations:
Mt Lyell from Tuolumne
Mt Banner/Ritter from Mammoth (pages of guidebook torn out)
Minaret Traverse
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
I am not familiar with the area so what is the likelihood of this gentleman's story:


I may have seen him in Minden Nevada yesterday Tues Aug 6th? While putting gas in my car this guy that looked to be homeless was walking by with a backpack. I didn't pay much attention to him until I read the story in the Record Courier (our local paper). He was walking north about 10:45 and we are about 120 miles north of Mammoth. I am a retired Police Sergeant and currently volunteer with the Douglas Co. Search & Rescue. I have called and left a message for the Det. working the case.
Gary Marshall


This was posted on FINDMATTHEWGREENE on facebook. Could he have gotten this far? If so maybe he doesn't know he is missing yet! Have they searched NV areas???
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
hmmmmmm!?? Ill keep an eye out here in Carson area!
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 8, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
Find Gary Marshall and ask him the address of the gas station.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Perhaps dissociative fugue?

Although there was a person who road the bus with him talking about peak bagging. Wasn't that the Devil's Postpile bus?
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9790&start=24

Please check out this forum. There is statement from manoftoomanysports:

"For what it's worth, ~10 days ago we did TM over Donahue to Island, then xc to Lake Catherine then xc to the San Joaquin and Bench Canyon. We didn't see your friend or evidence of him. Really, a total lack of footprints after Lake Catherine. The only odd thing was a tent about 2/3 up North Glacier Pass, but I think you said he had no overnight gear."
Also, earlier in the thread someone stated if a one-person Big Agnes tent is seen in the area to please contact MLPD. Wondering if there is a connection....I told people at SAR to check these areas stated above days ago...
WBraun

climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
We had a huge search once in Tuolumne meadows many years ago.

The guy we were looking for just plain disappeared.

We searched for a week and at one time had 100 searchers and 3 helicopters.

Nothing, nada, zilch!

Everyone thought he was toast somewhere.

The guy showed up in NY state a year later .......

So STFU crankster for a change!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
Duly noted, my advice is now up my ass.

I'm just recommending a little compassion.

Is that so hard?

Edit; this was in response to a now deleted thread.
Inner City

Trad climber
East Bay
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Crankster,
Ease off the throttle dude, you are gonna get bounced from here for not playing nicely. Issues?
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
What evidence is there that Matt would choose to disappear? You are an idiot.

Ever heard of dissociative fugue? Not saying that is the answer here, but a possibility and could have been in Werner's story.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Inner, Brandon..this is not a thread about offering compassion to a grieving family. I want them to find their loved one. It is about a search for a person missing for 21 days without overnight gear in the High Sierra. Rather than analyzing me, why not offer some theories on Matt's whereabouts instead?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
theres a million stories out there of folks just shaggin off. The reasons to numerous to name. Ive felt from the start that hes "elsewhere" than the hills, not sure why. Perhaps its most of his gear being there in his rig?

Nutria

Trad climber
BishopCA
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:15pm PT

If you summit any peak located in the general area between Tom's Place and Lee Vining, please carefully examine the summit register for Matt Greene's name on the dates of 15-19 July 2013. Remember that summit registers can be disorganized, and several log books may be present. Note that we want to hear from you whether or not you see his name; the absence of his name on a given peak is useful also.

Please report your results to Mono County Sheriff Search and Rescue Team at MosarOps@gmail.com. If you don't have email access, then please leave a phone message at: 760-566-6727.

Please print this page and take it with you as a reference for the dates and email address.

Thank you for your assistance,

Mono County Sheriff Search and Rescue Team
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Nutria, have you contacted the Douglas county Sheriffs office about the possible sighting in Minden NV? That could be advisable.
John M

climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
this is not a thread about offering compassion to a grieving family.

you have a poor understanding of what a family goes through when someone they love goes missing. Everything and anything is read and they don't separate out. which thread is which. Oh.. this is the thread for grieving family members. I will stay here. I wont read that other thread. Bull.. It doesn't work that way.

I agree that most people with a friend or family member missing want the truth. They thing is, that the truth can be delivered compassionately, or it can be delivered heartlessly. And even when they ask for the truth, that doesn't always mean they want it bluntly or even at that moment. I have had to deliver bad news about a young man who died in an auto accident. If you have any imagination at all or experience with these kinds of situations, then you know that there are facts that you give, and facts that you don't give, even when the family says they want all of the facts. There are just things people don't need to know. Things that I wish I didn't know.

There are plenty of stories of people surviving long periods with very little. If he injured himself and could get to water, then he could last a very long time.

So your defense of your attitude as being one of giving the family the truth is only part of the story.

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
This is now a thread about searching for crankster's lost humanity instead of this poor Matt fellow. Throw your ego tantrums elsewhere, dude.

TeddyKGBee- Keep posting up. We are eager to hear about any progress and still hopeful for your buddy. Seems like a lot of helpful information has been posted already. Makes me feel lucky thinking of the sketchy things I did in Tuolumne without telling anyone where I was going.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
More analysis, no information. You have a poor understanding of the point of this thread, John.
John M

climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
More analysis, no information. You have a poor understanding of the point of this thread, John.

The point is to find this young man. Your posts take away hope. Hope is an important tool in motivating people to try. So my disagreeing with you is exactly to the point, whereas yours are not.

Plus you also fail again to understand that just because the thread has one title, doesn't mean that family members are able to separate the various issues.

Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
Lori Fairchild said something interesting....

"I am not familiar with the area so what is the likelihood of this gentleman's story:

I may have seen him in Minden Nevada yesterday Tues Aug 6th? While putting gas in my car this guy that looked to be homeless was walking by with a backpack. I didn't pay much attention to him until I read the story in the Record Courier (our local paper). He was walking north about 10:45 and we are about 120 miles north of Mammoth. I am a retired Police Sergeant and currently volunteer with the Douglas Co. Search & Rescue. I have called and left a message for the Det. working the case.
Gary Marshall"

**Minden is not out of the question...someone should look into this.
dave goodwin

climber
carson city, nv
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
Crankster- you should READ what John M had to say about what family members go through when someone goes missing.

My father disapeared when I was only 5 months old in a plane incident. He was a bush pilot in Alaska so this was not uncommon. Friends of the family and fellow pilots kept looking for a very long time.

I am now 45 years old and I still think that maybe ther is a chance he is out there on a remote island somewhere livin off the land. It has had me wondering all these years and it is very emotional at times. My hands shake just typing this.

So you may think you are delivering the family some hard truth, but the fact is that they have already started to accept the truth, but the hope will still be there for a lot longer than you realize. You are adding nothing of value for the ones involved at this time.

JUst some feedback from someone who has lived with this their entire life.

Hoping for the best in this situation and to all the family and friends of Matt's.


Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
Has anyone been checking bank statements...ATM use etc. Did he take his wallet?

Did he use the Mammoth Lakes library computers...or his own? Has anyone checked the "History" of searches Google maps/Earth,topos, climbing/mountaineering forums to gather info of potential objectives?

I keep hoping for the best outcome...I think of the time I went climbing/mountaineering in the Himalayas in '94 (19 yrs old). Prior to internet, cell phones etc. I contacted friends prior to going in...but I decided to stay longer in the mountains than my previous objective, due to many factors (stayed over a month with no communication to outside world). I came back to Kathmandu with pictures, flyers, phone calls from Embassies. I did not realize I was "Missing". I keep this in mind as I hope for the best outcome.
Nutria

Trad climber
BishopCA
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
Ron Anderson: Nutria, have you contacted the Douglas county Sheriffs office about the possible sighting in Minden NV? That could be advisable.

Although we posted the summit register request, SAR volunteers are not permitted to discuss ongoing missions in any public fashion. We are instead required to direct inquiries to the Mono County Sheriffs Office, as we work under their direction.

760-932-7549 x7 (ask for SAR coordinator or secondarily the Watch Commander)
sar@monosheriff.org

Sorry that we cannot provide a direct answer to these sorts of questions. We understand that this is frustrating.

Mono County SAR
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
crankster....since you are obviously someone who possesses such infinite wisdom, may I suggest you post your actual name here.

I'm quite certain there are many here who would love to make your acquaintance...perhaps even the family of the missing.

Do us all a favor...let us into your world, so that we might be as enlightened as you.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
Nutria,,It WASNT a question, it was a suggestion.. Dont be a noodle.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
Let's hope for the best.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
I just informed CC Sheriffs dept of the minden info - to watch for guys with backpacks.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
crankster you should stop to post on this tread....
you already said everything
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Again- thank you all.

First, let me address the long chain of discussion about the delivery of information or "hard truths" that are being discussed. As a friend, yes, the emotional side of this is a reality and there is nothing that I haven't thought about or been concerned with from the moment I got the first call from the Sheriff's Department. If you post something that is upsetting, the reality is that I have already thought about it, so I just scroll down and move on.

Also, as a friend, I have hope and I know that if odds are to be challenged, I would put all of my chips on Matt. That's just the way it is. As a fellow climber, I know the dangers and hazards out there. I also know that at this point, what we need more than anything else is information. That information may or may not exist, but without looking for it, we will never know.

I understand that this is a climbing forum, but hundreds of Matt's friends and family members looking for information on Matt are looking everywhere they can, which may lead them to this forum. I am not suggesting that information be non-factual, but I will say that the dozens of posts embodying hope do not go unread and serve a very important role for me and many others. Hope is what keeps news stories get out there. Hope is what keeps people talking about this. Hope is what gives others the strength to not give up no matter what the odds may be. Hope is what we have when so much other information is missing.

I realize that it's impossible to fill all of you in on the details of this search, but please know that every possible lead on here and posted elsewhere is being investigated. Aside from the backcountry search, Matt's credit cards and other links to his whereabouts are constantly being monitored. Every person that may have seen Matt, that we know about, has been or is being contacted (wilderness permit holders, shuttle drivers, etc). This is all happening while we continue to search for more info.

A group is heading out from the east to search in person. All of the potential leads, ideas, or possible locations have been compiled from this and other forums and is in their hands. Further search of his gear, guide book, car, etc will all be done when they get there. This is in addition to the massive amount of work that the Sheriff's Dept and SAR already did. If individuals are interested in tagging along and helping out, please let me know and I'll connect you with these efforts.

Each night, friends and family of Matt have been placing candles in their west facing windows lighting the way home for Matt. That is an example of hope in action. The power of this stretches far beyond people sitting around and wanting to hear a positive outcome. It has created the momentum to create national media attention, raise necessary funds, fill empty seats on planes heading out west to look for Matt, continue the sharing of information, and show that the good in humanity is not lost. Matt would be the first one to be hopeful for me and keep pushing against the odds, so I and many others have no choice but to do the same for him.

Thank you,
Tom
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Ron, good and thanks. I was just going to see if one of us should forward that info to them.

You've all heard the saying "still waters run deep". Although Matthew may not have seemed depressed or otherwise likely to "disappear" or do something rash he is described as the quiet type. No one really knows what is/was going on with his mindset and the possibility is still there that he purposefully "dissappeared". It's one of several things that could have happened. Smart to be pragmatic and to look at all options, the negative and the positive in order to find him.

We post and we offer suggestions (vs. facts we unfortunately don't have) because we all have different perspectives and experiences and ideas, all or none of which could help. I wish this thread and the news of his going missing had come to our community sooner. Teddy please keep us up to date.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
Just got off the phone with Minden Sherrifs dispatch -they were un aware of the report about the sighting in minden. They are now..
crusher

climber
Santa Monica, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Here is a link to Nutria's separate post with request for people going in to check summit registers.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2199403/Help-locate-missing-Sierra-climber
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
Thank you, Ron. I was told that it was reported to Mono County, but glad to hear that it has been pushed to the local authorities. Very much appreciated.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
Props, Ron.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
They are aware now anyhow. Watchin for guys with backpacks..I remember a search long ago where the person had a minor stroke like event in the brain and just started walking. Things happen. Keeping the effort!



edit: Just got off the phone again with DO County to make sure i was clear on the first call. Stirring the pot so to speak.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
When I read earlier in the forum about Matt making a post the night before he went missing, about "Water intoxication"

Endurance sports


Marathon runners are susceptible to water intoxication if they drink too much while running. This is caused when sodium levels drop below 135 mmol/L when athletes consume large amounts of fluid. This has been noted to be the result of the encouragement of excessive fluid replacement by various guidelines. This is largely been identified in marathon runners as a dilutional hyponatremia.[5] Medical personnel at marathon events are trained to suspect water intoxication immediately when runners collapse or show signs of confusion.


Dose anyone know if people are out for a long time and just let their body be depleted of water, if they can just, run away without even knowing why?

Maybe possible heat stroke?
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
John M., Alexey, Cragman, Ryan D, etc. you obviously can't read. I've spent 95% of my time on this thread posting about why I think Matt went to Mt. Ritter. I offered a few sentences about long odds of survival.

Ryan, I'm sorry you think I'm arrogant for suggesting the focus of the search be on Mt. Ritter. You obviously know more about the area from your perch north of the border.



michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
This is no place for argument. Let it go Crankster, or take it to PM....

Mods, can you please delete any irrelevant / negative posts?
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
Tom,

Let me know if I can help. I am a local and spend a lot of time in the surrounding mountains/terrain...willing to help in the search.

Cheers
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Yes crankster, everyone on ST is an idiot but you. Maybe there's a few of us you haven't insulted but we get the idea. Thank you for enlightening us all. We are blessed to be in the presence of such a great genius. Please talk more, it sounds like everyone really likes what you have to say.
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
I partake in endurance running...and often train in the Lyell Canyon area and Volgesang areas. Long flat with little elevation gain until Donahue Pass. Maybe Matt went out with several objectives. Does he have a pack for running that is missing from car?
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Wolfie-

I believe it said he took a LARGE pack, that he possible stashed and took a smaller pack for peaks.

Page 1, Post 1
I think he would have left his larger backpack behind and took a day/summit pack with him.
two0nine

Mountain climber
Far Away, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Anyone know the forum in which he posted about water intoxication or simply the context of his post? Was he questioning about symptoms?

Also, anyone have knowledge of the what was said in the last text he made? Was it coherent, etc.?
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
I believe summitpost at 2:45 July 16th.

I'll search for a link: No luck finding. Don't have a SP account. Can't access threads.
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Hey Teddy, can you please keep all updates in post #1?

Makes it much easier for everyone instead of re-reading the thread.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Thanks for the insight, alli. I've cleaned up some of my posts where I was responding in anger to other's critcism. I'm mindful that Matt's friends & family are monitoring the forum and I'm sorry if they were offended.

I keep zeroing in on Mt. Ritter primarily because it is the most prominent peak in The Mammoth area. I understand he climbed Clyde Minaret sometime aroung July 11th. This would have been his enticing view from the summit:
View from Clyde Minaret
View from Clyde Minaret
Credit: crankster

He could have headed to Banner Peak, too. These climbs are long day-trips from the Agnew Meadow trailhead, but something that is commonly done by strong individuals like Matt.

I hope he is found soon.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 8, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
ANY health or other issues in his family history??
han

climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
It will be really helpful to have the complete yet concise information in one place - gears, topos he took with him, people whom he was last in contact with, date and time summit registries checked, areas that have been searched etc.

Seems only the "lower areas" of Ritter/Banner has been searched? I am confused.

PAUL SOUZA

Aug 8, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
Hey Teddy, can you please keep all updates in post #1?

Makes it much easier for everyone instead of re-reading the thread.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Thanks for the suggestion. I updated the 1st post with the most current info and details. If there is something else that would be helpful to have on there, please let me know and I'll add it.

Tom
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 8, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
Studying all the information, knowing the terrain intimately, having done lots of climbing in the area, and many SAR missions there as well....

....my gut feeling is that Matt ran into trouble in the Ritter/Banner region.

That being said, I would caution that there are far more areas beyond the snow fields that are VERY dangerous....so the snow should not be the sole focus. I've witnessed LOTS of natural rockfall each time I have been on both peaks.

There are also MANY off trail areas that present potential hazards, should he have chosen to save time and move off trail.

I'm trying to arrange my schedule to head in to the area on Saturday, with plans to spend a week scouring the entire Ritter/Banner area. Anyone wishing to join me is welcome.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Cragman, Thank you. Can you please PM me when you firm up you plans and I can try to connect you with the group heading out. Your selflessness is truly amazing. Please be safe and best of luck. THANK YOU!!!!
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
In regards to the "water intoxication"...It was found in a computer "History"! I am not sure if it was a personal or library computer...that is why I asked if anyone has looked deeper in to the history of the computer. Did Matt print anything at library?? Did he go to Mammoth Mountaineering Supply and purchase any topos for trip...food etc? They have cameras there that they could see if he was there during certain days, if staff does not remember. It is a local hang out for climbers to get beta. Someone had to have spoken to him.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
I'm trying to arrange my schedule to head in to the area on Saturday, with plans to spend a week scouring the entire Ritter/Banner area. Anyone wishing to join me is welcome.


Go get him, Dean! You are the MAN for that area!

Be safe, bro.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 8, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
This is Matt's little sister, Tiffany. Thank you everyone for your ideas and thoughts. IMO, You hold a better point of view regarding the situation thanks to your knowledge of the area and the hobby. Every little bit helps and I appreciate your time and effort in helping wade through what evidence we do have.

I've read every post here and feel no contempt towards anyone; it is what it is and as someone said - I realize the various outcomes and just want the closure of finding Matt, though admittedly I won't be entirely satisfied unless I also find out what happened, what went wrong. I find it hard to believe someone as smart and fit as my brother could get himself into trouble so easily.

As to the last couple questions:

Matt was using library computers and detectives told us when they inquired about history, that it was deleted every night for security purposes. From an IT standpoint, it may still be recoverable.

In regards to the water intoxication post, he was cautioning people as he experienced it during a 40 mile hike during his stint in the Peace Corps.

His last purchase was on the 16th and was about $16. I honestly don't know what he bought but have to imagine it was investigated and was not of significance.

Thank you all again for everything.
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Aug 8, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Credit: TMJesse

Upper Bench Canyon
Upper Bench Canyon
Credit: TMJesse

Western flank of Ritter has a lot going on except other people. Very remote, but close to the road.
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Thanks for placing these. I have been on the western flank of Ritter, and discussed with a SAR individual the potential that Matt may have ended up n this area...especially if a 30 mile day is nothing to him.

"In regards to the water intoxication post, he was cautioning people as he experienced it during a 40 mile hike during his stint in the Peace Corps." Posted by his sister...may be significant in his objective for a longer day.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 8, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
Tom,

I will definitely send ya an email tomorrow.....right now, it looks like myself and Flanders will be heading in at zero dark thirty on Saturday.

Best,
DR
Nudge Nudge

Trad climber
Aug 8, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
Meeting a friend at Ediza tomorrow, attempting Ritter/Banner from saddle. Will keep my eyes out. My thoughts go out to Matt's friends and family.
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Aug 8, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Credit: TMJesse

The NF of the San Joaquin River trail (in foreground) and canyon are enticing and rugged. The NF crossing was especially challenging. Just another consideration. If possible, maybe someone should check Roper's Sierra High Route in the area above the NF.
Matthew Gelber

Social climber
Tahoe
Aug 8, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
One other possibility might be Red Slate Couloir. Might he have seen it from the Minarets and decided to check it out? Just a thought.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 8, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
Just as a point of information, should anyone find any evidence of ANY kind, nothing should be touched. Photographs should be taken, and a report made as soon as possible to either the Mono County Sheriff or Mammoth Police Department.

Also, mark the location of anything found on your map to the best of your ability.
Wolfie

Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes
Aug 8, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Headwaters Country: Devil's Postpile to Tuolumne Meadows, crossing the Ritter Range and the Cathedral Range. Roper calls this "Headwaters Country" because the route crosses headwaters of the San Joaquin River. This is a section of the High Sierra Route aka Roper's Route. I believe it is approximately 47 miles.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Aug 9, 2013 - 01:02am PT
Been about 10 years, but, the High Route from Lake Catherine to TM via Bench Canyon was very challenging route finding. Remote as can be considering the proximity to roads. Some of the moves across the the terrain were scary (for me). I did it North to South.
In any case, and having following the thread, hoping for the best for Matt.
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 9, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Ron Anderson I sent you a private message. Please look into the possible sighting if you can. Thanks.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 9, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Cragman is familiar with the area, but here's a photo for those who aren't. There would be less snow , but the SE Glacier would still be there. Good luck, all.

I had a positive vision last night. If he left in the early am, equipped with a large pack (could be used as a bivy, at least for his lower body), probably a light down jacket & rain shell, some food & water for a long day - if he fell & was injured, but was close to some water, he could still be alive.
Credit: crankster
micronut

Trad climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Nice photo and input Crankster. Much appreciated by his friends and family for sure.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Perhaps the cliff bands below the Southeast Glacier (in cranksters photo) should be checked out. That high crossing from Cecile Lk to Ritter is trickier and more exposed than first appears. Although I'm sure there is much less snow than when I did it so I can't speak for current conditions.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Just got off the phone with Mr Gary Marshall, the man in Minden that may have seen Matt.. He was gassing his vehicle at the pacific gas station which does not have cameras. He stated the man he saw had a backpack with something BURNT ORANGE sticking out of the top. He stated the man looked "homeless" just walking by and had several weeks beard growth. He was unable to determine the hair length as said it just liked messy..


Mr Marshall contacted the MONO county detective supposedly in charge leaving him a message but has NOT been contacted back!>>>??
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Hopefully something will happen now that you contacted local authorities.Maybe Gary will start looking into it further too. Thanks for the info.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
Both Mr Marshall and myself have personally contacted Douglas county and Carson city Sherrifs depts. RPD is next.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
For what it's worth, during the summer months here on the east side, I see individuals matching the description of the subject spotted in Minden just about every day.....hitching their way north or south along the 395 corridor.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
agreed its a needle in a haystack. However the "burnt orange" sticking out of his pack was Notable.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
One of MANY needles in a VERY large haystack.
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 9, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
At least they are spreading the word. Is there anyone local that can distribute flyers?
Credit: Lori Fairchild
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 9, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
I just thought it was odd that a retired police sergeant would take interest...something stuck out to him that made him think it was Matt. He lives in the area and sees hikers all the time. Why did this particular person catch his attention to make him post on Matt's facebook page? I am trying to keep the faith...
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 9, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
BUMP

Favor - Does anyone have the 3rd edition Secor book that would be willing to scan the maps from those missing pages (entire mineret area) for me to see? As I can't be there myself I'd like an idea of the routes and such that his friends might be checking out.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned but 6 of Matt's friends are heading out to CA today/tomorrow to poke around - including the two he was out there with prior to his disappearance. So keep up the thoughts and speculation - it's something for them to consider while they're able to look.

Thanks.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Map:

I compiled a map of the area using the comments and feedback from this and other forums. I do not know the area too well, so I may have some locations slightly off. If there are any changes or additions that you would like to suggest, please let me know.

If you have been in an area and checked a summit register, please let me know and I will add it. If you have been hiking or searching in an area, please let me know and I will add it.

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zn3r74pmynOE.kUAGPbbv8mwo
Thanks,
Tom
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 9, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#315193
Secor, 3rd edition
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 9, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
The maps are great - thank you so much!
mattyj

Mountain climber
Truckee
Aug 9, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
Tom, I hope you don't mind that I took the liberty of copying your map onto caltopo so that people who aren't familiar with the area can see the places you've marked on a USGS map: http://caltopo.com/map?id=4J3A.

I will PM you a password so that you can make changes or delete it, if you want.

Edit: I also overlaid the page scan from Secor. Scroll down to the bottom on the left under 'Geospatial Images' and click 'Secor'.

Edit 2: HighTraverse, the locations were pulled from Tom's map using a script (so his map will still have it in the old location). I moved the Clyde marker to 3738.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 9, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
Some rambling thoughts

I'm referring to Teddy's excellent map, particularly the "empty" areas.

The environs around Cecile Lake should be thoroughly searched if hasn't been done already. The saddle is largely covered by krumholz which as we all know can be a great bivvy site or can obscure whatever is there on the ground. To my mind, a likely spot for Matt to bivvy after the Clyde and if he's there, pretty hard to see him without a thorough bushwhack search. Being sheltered, with water from the lake he could hole up in there for a while even if injured.

I don't see any reference in this thread to Amphitheater Lake. If Matt went over the top of the Clyde Minaret he would most likely (but not necessarily) have descended past or above this rockbound lake. It's deep and cold.

The back (West) side of Adams Minaret offers easy access to the N Fork San Joaquin (Schallenbarger Lake). Would be a good way for Matt to access that area if he caught the notion after the Clyde. Not mentioned in Secor, it's possible to climb directly to the Adams Minaret central ridge and then summit (700 ft higher than Clyde) from the NW corner of Amphitheater Lake (not from Amphitheater Col which is 3d class). Steep 4th to low 5th class climbing, (I might have made the FA 1978 or 9). I don't think anyone goes under the extremely rugged East face of Adams for years at a time since the regular Clyde descent is along the other side of Amphitheater Lake.

What's the chance he went to NW face of Michael Minaret to look for Peter Starr's resting place?

mattyj
I think you've mis marked the Clyde Minaret. You've got it on Eichorn. Clyde is the high point on the ridge running East from there, 3738m.
3736m is Michael Minaret.
EDIT: great work with the overlay

Earlier I mentioned the glacier/snowfield between Cecile Lake and Ritter. It runs along the slope roughly between the 3200 and 3300 meter contours all the way to the SE Glacier of Ritter.
EDIT: on the far left of Cragman's pic below
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Here is a shot of how conditions look today....

Credit: Mono SAR
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 9, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Cragman, are you heading in tomorrow? If so, do you have your itinerary planned already?

Those are great maps above.

Since last week, any more helicopter flybys anyone know?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
Fruc...looks like Doug and I will not head in until Sunday.

There has not been anymore helo flyovers, and there will likely not be anymore unless some new information comes in.

As for my search itinerary....clearly Matt did not sign either register on Ritter or Banner...something he would normally do. It's also clear from information available that those peaks were on his main hit list.

I believe he ran into trouble enroute to one of those summits...and in my opinion, Ritter is the likely spot, due to it being far more dangerous.

The cliff band below the east face (in the foreground in the above photo) is usually easily accessible via myriad snow-filled chutes, however this year, those chutes are melted out, leaving behind some very sketchy, loose terrain.

Also, the snow that does exist....is already bullet-proof water ice. One bad step....a crampon coming off....dropped axe.....inability to self-arrest....well...big problems.

I feel there is VERY strong possibility that Matt will be found within the photo I posted above, or perhaps slightly out of this photo on the glacier in the upper left corner.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 9, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
Best of luck, Cragman. Be safe out there.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
Thanks, Crankster....will do.


EDIT: I saw a team that I believe to be a couple of YOSAR members heading in from Minaret Vista today.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 9, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Cragman, thanks for the update.

And your insight.

.....

Did Matt climb Clyde with a buddy, or buddies? If so, have they been debriefed? Among the questions I'd have on my short list is whether Matt had any propensity as a serious climber-mountaineer to go off-trail enroute as many do.

As you know, confident serious climber-mountaineers - some more than others - will frequently cut trails, esp switch-backs, if not for expediency then for added adventure.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Fruc...no worries.

Another piece of information that leads me to Ritter is the fact that Matt decided to carry his large pack in order to tote his double boots and crampons. Clearly, he wanted to head to some big areas of snow to get into that gear.

He hiked in wearing approach shoes...and with a mindset of going fast. This has him trying to move over sketchy terrain perhaps in a manner that made an already dangerous prospect even more so.

Just how my brain is weighing everything....


EDTI: Yes, he did Clyde with friends. And yes, he would be heading off trail once he got to the spot in my photo above.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
I can't understand NOT leaving explicit details of where I am going. At the very LEAST, a note on the dash of the car, message to a friend, anything saying the general objective. I go solo all the time and ALWAYS let people know at least the base camp location I'll have or the basin I'll be exploring, etc. This is so frustrating for people who know this gentleman. I don't want to put my friends and family through that. I understand that the route and plans may change, but, as evidenced by the discussion on this thread, valuable time is lost just trying to figure out which area to look.

My prayers are with all involved.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
TheMaster....you speak truth....however, it is frustrating for EVERYONE involved..including SAR.

Going solo, no matter what level of skill one has....one MUST have someone who knows the details, and is willing to make the call when you don't show up.

Unfortunately, water under the bridge in this case now.
ruppell

climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Among the questions I'd have on my short list is whether Matt had any propensity as a serious climber-mountaineer to go off-trail enroute as many do

Good question which leads me to another that I haven't seen asked. What was his comfort zone for solo adventures? Maybe his climbing partners can chime in and answer this one. If he was just looking to peak bag than he would most likely avoid the lower cliff bands. If he was comfortable soloing technical rock then the lower cliff bands can draw you in pretty quick. Also no one has mentioned Crystal Crag at all. It's close to town and a super enticing solo. It does get done quite a bit so I'd imagine it has been climbed in the past three weeks but maybe not. No reason to bring snow gear to that one but if you're not that familiar with the Sierras you might.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
Cragman, I know, just feeling frustrated when I see situations like this.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Going solo, no matter what level of skill one has....one MUST have someone who knows the details, and is willing to make the call when you don't show up.

Sage advice. On my solo trips out I tell at least two, usually who know the area. I'm sure Matt was confident in his abilities, and there were plenty of times when I told no one - those times are gone.

Been checking in on this thread with a heavy heart.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
ruppell....it was clear that he was headed for some snow.

There isn't a single flake near Crystal Crag.
ruppell

climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
Crag

I know, just throwing it out there.
kstarr

climber
Aug 9, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
Still hoping for a positive outcome to this and thankful for all the SAR members who put time and energy into these situations.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Aug 9, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
Crag, be safe out there Sunday. I wish I could go, but with the combined travel and altitude all I would be doing is slowing you guys down, I'm not in the best shape right now. I wish I could make it happen, this is a bad deal for sure.

Just so that his friends know, the call for help or assistance has gone out a lot. The team I am on, Red Rock SAR, was contacted by a local Vegas climber to see if there was anything we could do. Unfortunately it's a little out of our capabilities at the moment.

Hoping for the best, regardless of the odds.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 9, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
This evening ...
Credit: T H
granite_girl

Trad climber
Oakland
Aug 9, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
We climbed Crystal Crag and Laurel Mountain a few weekends ago. No sign of him in either place. Crystal Crag is climbed frequently. It's unlikely that he'd get overlooked if he were there.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
Aug 10, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Great image, Bio. Thanks
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Aug 10, 2013 - 03:52am PT
bump for hope
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Aug 10, 2013 - 04:23am PT
EDIT

I think the posters to this thread, including Crankster (who I had doubts at first, judgmental me, but now I think different, after following this thread), we all have Matt's safety in concern.

Let's just hope he decided to let his passions loose, so to speak.
Anastasia

climber
Home
Aug 10, 2013 - 04:44am PT
+1 to Riley.

I don't know about anyone else, but planning isn't in my genes. Now going into the unknown and taking risks is. This could easily have been me.

tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 10, 2013 - 07:39am PT
To answer the question regarding Matt's comfort level - I heard one of Matt's friends say straight hand that it's very possible Matt would see something enticing and go off trail to check it out.

They also said he's not the type to race to the peak to bag it; that he would time things out to be back and if that meant turning around before reaching summit, so be it.

4 of his friends are on a flight as I post this, 2 more following, so many offers from other that will be in the area. Trying to keep my chin up that they'll bring him home and at peace that they're looking.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:16am PT
Some random thoughts after re-studying the flikr photos:

Taking the big pack white pack instead of the medium blue pack...I can't figure that out. Maybe he had packed his climbing or other gear in the blue pack and the white one was empty. The La Sportiva's are bulky and he thought they'd carry more comfortable in the big pack. Or he had overnight gear that we are unaware of.

Is his helmet missing? Sorry if this has already been covered.

Has the Bloody Couloir on Bloody Mountain been check? Classic line, seen from Mammoth. This would require him getting a ride, however. Someone he met up with would either be missing, too (unlikely) or maybe dropped him off and is not aware he is missing. Probably a long shot.

The weather has been mild. Still a chance!

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:18am PT
Bloody Couloir is free of snow.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:23am PT
@Riley and Anastasia,

And your attitude is why we have situations like this. How long have we been "speculating" on where to look?

It has nothing whatsoever to do with "taking risks", it has to do with being responsible and caring about those who care for you. Read my whole post, don't just take out a specific line and address that.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:24am PT
tdg119,

Thanks for the info. I wanted to address the issue of the friends that are on their way out to help search.

Of course, it is admirable that anyone will want to help. That being said, in all my years of SAR, I've seen problems arise with this.

Anyone helping needs to understand that this is serious terrain. The altitude alone will do in many people. Just being a willing searcher who loves Matt is not enough.

Anyone going into the backcountry needs to be skilled at handling the rigors of the mountains, otherwise there is risk of them becoming a victim as well.

Just food for thought.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:43am PT
The group going are the friends that climb with him all the time; they are not novices and will be in groups and have solar powered cell chargers & rugged Communication devices. Still, I will share your post on the Facebook page (I run it) in hopes of keeping those who don't have the necessary experience from pushing towards the mountains. Hell that's why I'm not part of he search party; I'd need rescued too.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Cranks ther - helmet was not missing, nor any climbing gear.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:45am PT
Thanks tdg119...they also need to understand that there is NO cell service within the search areas.
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:59am PT
After retreading the first post, it says his last credit card purchase was on the 16th. Where? Maybe Matt discussed his plans with someone there. A long shot, I know.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:12am PT
In almost every climbing photo he's wearing his blue Black Diamond helmet. Curious he didn't take it if he was headed to climb Ritter or Banner, or any other climb for that matter.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:19am PT
We don't think he'd attempt a climb alone. Plus his rope, caribiners, etc were all at campsite.
Deekaid

climber
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:20am PT
I think Cragman has a good theory going.
WBraun

climber
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:22am PT
10b4me -- ".... it says his last credit card purchase was on the 16th. Where? Maybe Matt discussed his plans with someone there. A long shot, I know.


This is good investigative thinking.

Better than full speed ahead out of the coral in any ole random direction .......
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:23am PT
"Climbing" either Mt. Ritter or Banner is generally a hike as opposed to a climb.

Many people doing those peaks, especially solo, are likely not going to be wearing a helmet, figuring that with no one above them, there would likely not be any rockfall coming at them....they're not thinking of falling themselves.

Could be the difference maker here.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:36am PT
We don't think he'd attempt a climb alone.

Please do not make decisions based on this thought. Lots of experienced climbers, who would never "free solo" (do technical climbs without ropes/gear), could easily view things that non-climbers think of as "climbs" as nothing more than a steep hike.

Class 3-4 terrain is so easy compared to the technical climbing we commonly do, and is so often encountered on approaches to technical climbs and done ropeless and carrying a pack, without a second thought. People with Matt's level of experience have different views of what constitutes risk, or even what constitutes climbing vs scrambling or steep hiking.

Best of luck to the search parties. I hope all his loved ones find closure soon.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Weve seen this yearly. Someone solo goes missing. Normally found some time later near the peaks in question. Like Doc Dankworth last season on Norman Clyde pk. Climbers climb or fall.
I was in hopes other leads locally would pan out but they havent thus far.
A drive yesterday eve showed me there are MANY people with backpacks around the area.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Also as Crag has mentioned the gullys have been melted out entirely. More moving rock exposed and possibly harder to negotiate ( like the upper gullys on N Palisade) . These can now be "problem" spots for even the well experienced.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Going in tomorrow morning....however.....

...I have a feeling Matt will be located today.
socialclimber

Trad climber
CA
Aug 10, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
^ That is an ominous prediction. Thinking of people that knew Matt (I am not one of them, but his photo looks so familiar). I hope everyone finds peace in time.

Charles
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 10, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
Good luck Dean, be safe.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 10, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Ron
Also as Crag has mentioned the gullys have been melted out entirely. More moving rock exposed and possibly harder to negotiate
Excellent point. I ran directly into this problem last week in the Tetons. Loose rock and gravel was a major obstacle on normally steep but otherwise straightforward snow approaches. Requiring significant extra caution and effort.
I'm also leaning towards the Cecile Lake - SE Ritter traverse. Looks deceptively easy.
Good luck to the searchers and stay safe out there.
this just in

climber
north fork
Aug 10, 2013 - 05:36pm PT
I summited Ritter on Wednesday, August 7th from the westside. We came in from hemlock crossing, stayed close to Stevenson meadow, and approached through Ritter lakes. The snow was minimal on the western slope, but all the north facing slopes were packed with steep, wind blown snow. Unfortunately I didn't pay too much attention to the register, two parties summited on Aug 5th but neither were Matt. Wish I had taken a better look and hope he is found soon.
Regards,
Justin
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 10, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
after re-reading the entire thread
and considering Matt's decision to take
axe
crampons
mountain boots

Also, Matt climbed Clyde Minaret on July 11, 6 days before he went missing so he had some familiarity with conditions in the region.

Yet he specifically took tools for climbing steep hard snow or ice.
Therefore he was very likely intent on a snow/ice climb.
Matt also has a lot of experience in the backcountry and on long hikes. A 30 mile day would be nothing for Matt to consider. He would feel comfortable doing most solo hikes/climbs in the park and surrounding areas.
This would put him within a day's round trip reach of any of the Minarets, Ritter and Banner.
But given what he carried, the rock routes would be unlikely.

From Cragman's photo yesterday, I would think that the three routes on the North face of the Clyde Minaret would still require a snow/ice approach.
I have traversed the ice field below them, it's a spectacular and exposed location.
They are all 4th class and I believe they are seldom done. Left to right they are
Starr's Route (historical significance)
Rock Route (still requires ice field approach)
Glacier Route (Norma Clyde), only 1 4th class move.
(Secor, 3d edition, page 380 with excellent photo on P381)
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Aug 10, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
I know it sounds crazy, but could he have gotten a ride/shuttle/hitched to north peak/Dana?

With his car in a garage, how long was the work going to take to fix it? I would be gone as many days as it would take, 3-day job etc. just ideas.
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
Aug 10, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
When i had my head gasket done it took three days. Yes, it was a subi.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
Hi-

Local search group is out there now. Got a question about Michael Minaret. Has anyone been out there recently or is planning to go? Also, any beta on a likely route that would require snow tools?

Thanks,
Tom
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 10, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
Tom,
See my note above ^^^^
Three routes on N Side of Clyde would require ice tools.

If you meant on the Michael Minaret, I don't know.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
Flanders and I will be heading in via Clark Pass tomorrow morning....skirting 1000 Island Lake along the south shore....our likely bivi spot tomorrow night will be the tarns in the last photo I posted upthread.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
Thank you Cragman- I will let the team know. Did you talk with Jill?

Thanks,
Tom
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Yes, sorry. I was referring to Michael Minaret. I passed along your suggestions to the team.

Tom
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Details on Guidebook:

Secor 3 rd edition pages 369 to 398
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
Packed and ready for the morning.....thanks for all the well wishes of luck and safety.

As I said up thread, Doug and I will be scouring the entire area in the photo I posted....as well as on down to Cecile Lake. Once we're confident we should move on, we will be moving north around the base of Banner, angling west towards Mt. Davis, checking all the snowfields.

Tom, I just got off the phone with Jill and filled her in on our plans. Be advised that I am carrying a radio capable of talking with Mono SAR, Mono Sheriff, Inyo Forest Service, YOSAR, and any air resource we may need to call in.

Also, remind your people that 3 whistle blasts will draw our attention and be responded to in kind.

Best of luck to all....above all....stay safe.

Dean Rosnau
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
Good luck Dean and all of you who are giving so much time and effort to a fellow climber.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
Good luck Dean and Doug!
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 10, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Good luck Dean
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 10, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Dean- Thank you so much. Just heard from Jill and she mentioned that you talked. Best of luck, but most importantly, please be safe. You're (and Doug)truly a great person for doing this.

Tom
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:05pm PT
Thanks you guys....we're loaded with mojo...and plenty of food. Did I mention I like to eat in the BC?

: )
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
cragman you've much high and dramatic country
within your kind sights.


may your spirits soar,
and your lungs fill readily.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Aug 10, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
Best of luck men.
han

climber
Aug 11, 2013 - 12:56am PT
Good luck Dean and Doug. Please be safe!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Aug 11, 2013 - 01:00am PT
Cragman,

May HaShem keep you and guide you.

May the family and friends of Matt find Shalom.



(Post 333, its a good sign.)
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Aug 11, 2013 - 01:09am PT
Hoping for the best outcome and admiration for team crag and Doug.


Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 11, 2013 - 06:10am PT
Thanks again, ya'll....praying for Matt and his family and friends.






To the mountains.....

Ritter and Banner from Spooky Meadows, August 2008
Ritter and Banner from Spooky Meadows, August 2008
Credit: Cragman

Ritter and Banner from the summit of Carson Peak, August 2008...shot w...
Ritter and Banner from the summit of Carson Peak, August 2008...shot with 300mm zoom
Credit: Cragman

Ritter Range from the summit of Carson Peak....May 2012
Ritter Range from the summit of Carson Peak....May 2012
Credit: Cragman
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Aug 11, 2013 - 09:45am PT
^^^
Alpine start for Dean n Doug,
Luck and vibes to them and Matt.
Be safe guys,
Tad
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 11, 2013 - 11:14am PT
I noticed the Facebook page mentions that the group from PA is in Mammoth and headed out to search. They are voicing some frustration with the search effort from authorities and want people to contact Governor Brown.

Some confusion lies with the joint county area that surround Ritter & Banner; Mono & Madera Counties. I assume Madera Sheriiff's SAR has been contacted repeatedly to launch a search?

The problem stems from the lack of specific clues as to Matt's possible destination. Seems pretty clear from the torn guidebook pages he was headed towards the zone between Mt. Ritter in the south to Mt. Lyell to the north in YNP.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 11, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
Aerial photo from Secor...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#315449

High Traverse wrote

"I would think that the three routes on the North face of the Clyde Minaret would still require a snow/ice approach.
I have traversed the ice field below them, it's a spectacular and exposed location.
They are all 4th class and I believe they are seldom done. Left to right they are
Starr's Route (historical significance)
Rock Route (still requires ice field approach)
Glacier Route (Norma Clyde), only 1 4th class move."

Thinking along the same lines as HT, the Minarets would be my #1 area to search, taking into account other info on the thread and the fact that he was up there on the 11th - seeing all that additional extra opportunity.

So if I had one day to search the area the Minarets would be my pick.

.....

Wish I could be there right now, at the base of the east and north face routes of Clyde. To scope it out. Older written descriptions say they're 4th class ascents (one even "easy") but the aforementioned aerial picture suggests harder.

With one day, I'd certainly try to circle about Michael and circle about Amphitheater Lake. If anyone has already, they should post up.

Nice going, Cragman.
ddsstyle

Sport climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
Aug 11, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Although I understand frustrations of the friends and family as well as outsiders with this search effort, especially some inter county overlap/politics, they have got to understand how rugged, dangerous, and large this search area is. SAR members are volunteers. Not all of them are capable of climbing in the areas Matt is probably at. The risk to searchers vs the probability of a find must be considered. Given the evidence, SAR just cant throw people at every peak. And even if personnel went out to every single peak in the area, it is the small and detailed areas like the moats where he is likely to be found. Matt seems to wear earth tones frequently (like most of us do now) and it is like looking for a rock in a pile of rocks. You could be 50 feet away and with the wrong angle, totally miss a person. This search is going to depend on climbers like Cragman in my opinion. The prospect of Michael Minaret seems possible. I know I have thought about climbing to Starr's grave site so im sure others have entertained the idea as well. Although I have never done Michael, it seems it can be done in a day and the gear he took would be sufficient. Iron Mountain also seems possible. I believe it still has a large snowfield.... hopes and thoughts....
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
The coastal redwoods
Aug 11, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
Folks I know from a more specialized alpine SAR unit have been up there for a few days, I don't know exactly where they are searching but they were called in for their mountaineering experience last weds I think
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 11, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
I'm putting my money on Dean & Doug. Two former YOSAR (rescue) professionals who know and love the area.

eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 11, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
^^^^^ The worst, and most dangerous thing, EVER, is turning a search into a competition.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 11, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Im hoping for an outcome soon! Crag and Flanders know the area. But its is a HUGE one with a million hidden nooks and crannies.


edit: Ekat,, i dont think it was meant like that..;-)
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 11, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Search and Rescue can't initiate a search without more concrete information on where he may have gone. Until that happens or until S&R makes the decision to go ...
Seems like in the initial days sar didn't want to go out - like the were hoping it would just resolve itself. Now almost a month later people are coming out of the woodwork, making grand gestures to search, but for what? Seems a bit bass ackwards.
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 11, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
I think Dean mentioned that a couple of YOSAR peeps went in a couple of days ago.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 11, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
It took a few days to locate Dr Dankworth last year and they knew which peak he was on including his campsite, and obvious route. Often if one falls off any give sierra route, they are nowhere near such when found. The Minarets are FULL of "sucker routes" - you know the ones,, that LOOK like "the way" but actually arent close? Many of the old standard routes have such avenues along the way. Thats a crap load of area to search even by air.
oakgirl

Trad climber
Oakland
Aug 11, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
I know that most people have assumed that because he climbed Clyde on 7/11, he would be somewhere else. But, I've seen his friends say that he is very methodical and careful. Is it possible that since he was alone, he went back to Clyde because he was already familiar with it so it seemed safer? Maybe explored a different part of it? Maybe wasn't even focused on summitting, but just exploring?
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Aug 11, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
Occam's Razor.

Lacking any specific evidence to the contrary, the simplest/most likely solution is your best bet, and based upon what you all know, which isn't much, cragman is more than likely on the scent.

Which brings me to say to those of us that go wandering about: if you don't want to be rescued, then by all means, leave a note to that effect when you leave your car or trailhead. What this kids family, friends, and all of you out looking for him are going through is ridiculous.

It took us over a year to find Fosset, and he disappeared with a plane. I'm just praying that no one gets hurt in this search, because the "needle in a haystack" aspects of it are so unnecessary.
Sredni Vashtar

Social climber
The coastal redwoods
Aug 11, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
It wasn't a challenge Chaz, just relaying what I know. Couple of the folks I mentioned are former YOSAR too. Many thanks to all the volunteers and the pros, my limited SAR experience tells me how much effort goes into this. Prayers for a happy outcome.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Aug 12, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Bump.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2013 - 10:43am PT
SEARCH UPDATE:

Hi everyone- the Group is out in the back country as I type. there was no information from yesterday, but they do have the ability to communicate directly with SAR, so any information that they get can get radioed in.

I also heard that SAR had been EXTREMELY helpful and accommodating to this group- Thank you so much!!!

One team went out to Michael's Minaret yesterday, but couldn't get on top. They may try again today. There was also a report that the Clyde Minaret log was signed by Matt on July 11th, which indicates that he signing the logs, as he normally does.

I was also asked to post a request:

Is anyone planning to climb Michael's Minaret or others within the next few days? Also, any other beta is always welcomed. The feedback that everyone has provided thus far has definitely aided in the search.
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Aug 12, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Wish I could be part of the ground search. Did time with Sequoia Mountain Rescue (Tulare Co.) A huge suggestion, if no one has considered it....not only check Michael's Chute on the way to Michael Minaret's summit but ALSO Ampitheater Chute on the opposite side. Both chutes are VERY loose, especially Ampitheater. Also cover the traverse from Clyde Minaret to Michael. Lots of mini-chutes and steep nooks...

I will apologize ahead of time to those who feel this is bit "leaning" but this trip report Bob Burd did for our party when we went out to place a memorial plaque on Michael Minaret in 2003 has many valuble photo refereces of specific features such as Ampitheater and Michael Chute. Ran into our seperate issues on that outing too. Again, I am not trying to offend anyone. The title of the TR is called 'Missing In The Minarets', dedicated to the memory of climber/mountaineer Walter "Pete" Starr Jr.

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_reports/michael_minaret_1.html
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 12, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Mooch, informative link. Close-ups of Amphitheater Lake and Michael Minaret from their perspectives.

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_photos/michael_minaret_1/index_t.html
Gene

climber
Aug 12, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
Below the notch between Ritter and banner.

Message from Dean at 10:45 this morning.

Wishing the best for all involved.

g
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 12, 2013 - 08:18pm PT
hey there say, TeddyKGBee...

as to this:

Is anyone planning to climb Michael's Minaret or others within the next few days?e



perhaps, TOO, you could post this as a THREAD TITLE...

there MAY be folks that are not checking into this thread, that just
might be thinking about this climb, you never know...

or shorten it: 8-12-2013,any planning a climb Michael's Minare?

worth a shot...
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Aug 12, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
hey there say, i will be a bit 'outreach' and do that now...
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Aug 13, 2013 - 01:48am PT
Bump to keep this on the front page.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 13, 2013 - 01:53am PT
Praying for the best possible outcome!

Peace,
Eric
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 13, 2013 - 09:23am PT
From https://www.facebook.com/findmattgreene

I'm sure you're all wondering what's going on and looking for updates. I'm in communication with various people throughout the day and basically we're just trekking forward in our search.

Jill & Andrea put up posters anywhere and everywhere and spoke to the car repair shop, library, detective, and the Rite Aid where Matt's last purchase was made, to name a few.

Our teams are still out in the back country looking.

I've gone through Matt's items at home; everything he typically leaves at my parents during these treks as well as all of his records and important files. I gained access to his cell phone account and confirmed what we were already told. Working on access to his hotmail account. We have records of his CC and bank. Nothing "new" - though I saw where he'd written out a very general overview of where he'd be with whom and he'd planned to be home on 8/18 at the very latest.

I wanted to share a few other messages from those looking.

"The guides at SWS have been guiding and climbing the Ritter Range for the last 7 days. All the guides are back at home with no reports of any evidence of Matthew. They and their clients have climbed Clyde Minaret, the glacier route on Ritter, the northface of Ritter, the Ritter/Banner Saddle, the Northridge, and the south face of Banner.
Best of luck in your search and we advise extreme caution and safety in your efforts. Many of the lesser traveled regions in this area are very dangerous."

We've also contacted Ed at SkyTime Helicopter Tours (www.skytime.com - thanks to the person who posted their link on this site!) and he went out looking for us; nearly 2 hours yesterday with plans to take another in-depth look this morning when it's not so windy. Per Ed, "I'm going to take a good hard look and I'll let you know how it goes when I return. Say a prayer to St. Anthony, we are going to try very very hard to find him. May we have good Karma and Mojo, may the FORCE be with us".

Lastly, I know not everyone sees every post on here, but there was a post quite a bit ago with follow up just yesterday that I want to make sure is seen because anything is possible and we need to keep eyes out not just in Mammoth Lakes but all around -
"The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced I saw him in MInden, NV on 8/6/13 at 10:42, walking north on 395. I am a retired cop and new member of Douglas Co. SAR, but did not pay that much attention to the guy at first. He had a backpack with what I thought was a burnt orange sleeping bag stuffed in the top. I saw that he had a burnt orange tent, and that could have been it. I saw the article the next day and reported it to Douglas Co, Carson City, and NHP. His options would have been to take hwy 50 to Lake Tahoe or continue on 395 through Reno and into Calif. heading to Susanville. If that was him I saw that is. He looked homeless, like he had just woken up and his hair was sticking up. He also had a several week growth of beard."

Side note - hospitals were notified of Matt's disappearance, as well as homeless shelters and hostels in the area - not sure how far that notification stretches though.

The efforts mentioned are but a few of all that are going on to help find Matt. There are many people helping in various ways including those who are risking their lives to physically look. I want each and every person to know how much I appreciate everything being done.
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Aug 13, 2013 - 11:53am PT
The traverse from Clyde Minaret....

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_photos/clyde_minaret_3/DSC04295.html

This shot was taken from Eichorn. Our friend Patrick was sampling some 5th class rock in this shot but there are easier sections directly below. Thinking the traverse could be a good place to look.

Another perspective; a view from atop Michael Minaret looking over at Clyde.

http://www.snwburd.com/bob/trip_photos/clyde_minaret_3/DSC04302.html

michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Aug 13, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
To the top.
deanalynn

Social climber
Huntington Beach-June Lake
Aug 13, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
bump
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Aug 13, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Any news????
Hoping for a good outcome!!!!!!!
carmenlong

Trad climber
Mexico
Aug 13, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Hi,

There is a Facebook page set up for gathering information and keeping people informed about searching for Matthew. I had contacted the admin for this page stating that I would like to volunteer this coming weekend to search for Matt. However, nobody had replied to my email and/or comments in that page.

I will be available to help searching Saturday 8/17 and Sunday 8/18 so it would be great if someone in this forum can share a contact person or group I could reach out to and coordinate helping out. Thanks!
Deekaid

climber
Aug 13, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
hope it doesn't turn out to be a 180 degrees opposite situation and he got a ride from the wrong person...i am sure this has already been considered.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 13, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
Carmen - I'm the admin of the FB page and Matts sister. Unfortunately I know nothing of climbing. First I'll need to see if any of the team will still be out this weekend and if not the area they'd suggest. Not ignoring you; sometimes I just need to 'research' for the answer. Thanks for the offer of help.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 13, 2013 - 09:16pm PT
Carmen
Try sending Cragman a message on this forum. He's out there right now with another Supertopian.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 13, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Not sure if this has been mentioned but what if...he was climbing, took a fall and banged his head, and is now wandering around the 395 corridor with amnesia? Stranger things have happened.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 13, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
Chelsea Wagner and I could contribute an aerial search technique we developed last year while flying Jeff Lowe and Connie Self around the western mountains for their Metanoia Movie, in the Tetons, Wind Rivers, Idaho Sawtooths, Wasatch, Zion, Cedar Breaks, etc

We have a fast Piper Comanche with oxygen based in the Monterey Bay area that is rigged for HD Video

We could fly to Mammoth or Bishop Airports tomorrow or the next day, if we can meet an aerial observer familiar with the area of concern

Since the airplane is fast, it is not ideal for real time aerial observation

However with HD Video capture, we can view the flight path on someones high definition display in front of knowledgeable observers as soon as we land

This method allows a detailed search of a large amount of terrain
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Hi all...Doug and I came out of the BC a few hours ago...just unpacking, getting showered and fed...after a grueling 3 days.

Nothing to report in regards to Matt, sadly....but plenty to report.

Tomorrow I should have some time to put together a detailed report. I am going to do that as a TR all on it's own, as I do not want to clog this wonderful thread.

A couple quick things....to Tom Cochrane...no, do not fly to search. Far too dangerous for not knowing any more specific information, and from the air, this territory will reveal nothing...it's just too rugged.

We saw Ed Roski's helo fly over yesterday and today....I'll post pics of that tomorrow....but again, you will not be able to see anyone from the air. Props to Ed for his efforts.

Finally for this evening, just want to say thanks again to all of the kind thoughts, prayers, and well-wishes for Doug and I. We accomplished our goal..did it safely..and feel well in our efforts.

Look for my report by tomorrow evening.

Cheers,
Dean Rosnau
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Tom....trust me....you won't be able to spot a single thing from the air.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
man what a great community. I'm really impressed.

to Matt's family: you are in our thoughts. stay strong...can't imagine what you're going through. somehow, some way, someday it will be ok.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
Dean, I agree, having participated in many aerial searches

You are missing the point, we are talking about viewing HD video on a big screen with stop/start/zoom capabilities

Perhaps you could be our observer/navigator

This method of searching the HD video viewed under controlled conditions indoors allows a much more detailed search of a wide area than you can otherwise make while up in the air

(having also done many ground searches as an officer of Inyo County SAR and an original YOSAR and MRA member and also done a lot of remote sensing analysis)

We know how to stay safe in this sort of terrain and have overflown the Sierras many times...
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
Tom...trust me...no point is being missed. This terrain, as has been posited upthread, is SO rugged, we could have missed him in places from 30 or 40 feet away.

Any aerial effort after this much time is pointless.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
You might spot 2 knuckleheads if you fly thru the Banner Ritter notch....?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 13, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
i'm thinking of the successful search for Dan Hunt, the British speed flying pilot missing in the Alps following a flight from the Jungfraujoch in September

not to promote an argument, but you are thinking aerial search and i am thinking high definition remote sensing analysis

if you are not familiar with the detail that can be picked up by a RED camera, you are in for an eye opening treat...

(Coz IMs me to go ahead with this plan and do the search...)
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Hi Carmenlong-

Thanks for the offer! If you can, please PM me and I'll send you the contact info for the person coordinating local efforts in Mammoth. Her name is Jill, and she will be able to tell you what has been searched and what areas still need boots on the ground. Thank you so much for offering to help. It goes without saying, but please be extra safe when your're out there.

Thanks,
Tom
ruppell

climber
Aug 13, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
Tom if you can do it then do it. I can see Crags point and tend to agree with it but having that footage to analyze wouldn't be a bad thing. How many gigs of data are we talking to shoot that area in HD? What programs are you using to do the analysis? Worse case you guys have a rad fly over of the Ritter area. Best case it produces something.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
Cragman-

Thank you for your efforts- more than words can say!!! We have a team creating a GIS map right now to help track search efforts. As soon as that is ready (maybe a day or two), I will let you know so we can get your details on there.

I can't express how happy I am to hear that you and Doug are both safe. There isn't a minute that goes by that I'm not thinking about everyone out there putting themselves at risk to help find Matt. Thank you, thank you, thank you. The more that I'm involved in this, the more faith I have in humanity- from people like you.

Tom
Mark Rodell

Trad climber
Bangkok
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:22am PT
bump with hope
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 07:35am PT
Out of respect for the teams that are still out in harm's way searching for Matt, I will be withholding my report for a bit.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 14, 2013 - 07:47am PT
not to make light,
but life is theatre,
and this has been a dramatic production.

a wonderful stage is up there,
for whatever the encore might present.

a good place to get lost,
a good place to search for clues,
a good place to surrender,
a good place at which we cast our hope.

even a good place to die.

the human spirit is on proud display, here.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 09:12am PT
I'm eager to hear Cragman's report. Those two, as are all searchers, are to be commended for their bravery.

In July, 2012, Michael LeMaitre was participating in the Mount Marathon race in Seward, AK, along with hundreds of others. He was the last runner. He was near the turnaround point as race organizers were headed back to town, a short distance. He was never seen again. A massive search ensued and failed to find him. His daughter searched for weeks. Nothing has ever been found. http://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/last-man?page=single

I'm not mentioning this to throw water on the search. Rather, to point out how easy the wilderness can swallow a person. LeMaitre was in a known location yet not a trace. Granted, Alaska wilderness is wilder than the Sierra, but the search area was a fraction of the area where Matt could be located.

The same questions were asked in the Alaska case as are here. Would he have gone missing intentionally? What was his state of mind? The last picture of him shows him smiling, headed up. I imagine this when I think of Matt. Strong, happy, headed into the wilderness.

Hoping this ends with a better outcome for family & friends sake. I believe he will eventually be found.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 14, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Apoligies if this has been covered, but do we know if he had a smart phone on him and could it be tracked through law enforcement?

I know smart phones can be tracked, even when off, through the chip. Thousands of low-level drug dealers are convicted every year through cell tracking.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:07am PT
Further comment regarding aerial high resolution searching.....

Within the world of search and rescue, we always weigh the equation of risk vs. benefit.

In this particular case, very little is known. In fact, there is absolutely no specific known search area....only some assumptions based on conversations Matt had with his friends.

With those conversations, and given the fact of the equipment missing from Matt's campsite (Large pack, mountaineering boots, crampons, ice axe), these things give credence to the possibility that Matt found trouble in the Minaret/Ritter-Banner area.

Given the amount of time that had lapsed between the suspected time he went missing (July 17) and the time he was reported as such, and given the limited equipment he had with him, it was in all likelihood going to be a recovery mission at best.

That being said, finding a deceased subject in a KNOWN location is hard enough...trying to find one in a POSSIBLE location is even more daunting.

Also, with each day that passes, the environment in all of it's aspects, alters the scene, even if the subject was wearing bright orange clothing, rendering it more and more difficult to see. At this stage of the search, one is literally going to have to step on the scene to find it. And given that this search area is some of the most rugged landscape in the Sierra, the task is daunting.

Going back to risk vs. benefit....the least risky way to search in this case, given the limited information available, is for ground teams to go to the areas we have. Boots of experienced climbers on the ground, keeping risk to as minimum a level as possible. With all due respect to Matt's family and friends, to lose another life in search of one already lost is to only heap additional tragedy on an horrific existing one.

In my opinion, ground teams searching the SPECIFIC areas Matt discussed with his friends is an acceptable risk.....but not beyond those areas. I'll repeat that...to search anywhere else is, in my opinion, risky and unacceptable.

To give a little more perspective on this from someone who just returned from a portion of the search zone, consider the following....assuming Matt lost his life in the area Doug and I searched.....

The area Doug and I covered is vast, rugged, inhospitable terrain. If I had a team of 100 experienced searchers, we could spend the rest of our lives searching that area and never find him. Furthermore, the area Doug and I searched is a postage stamp....the ENTIRE search area is a football field....and ALL of this search area is as rugged as it gets.

In regards to Tom and his offer to fly the area with hi-tech imagery capability....that is an EXTREMELY noble and generous offer. However, once again, I have to weigh in the risk vs. benefit factor....and the fact is, flying in the mountains is DAMN dangerous. Not to impune your piloting expertise, Tom, but consider this....world-reknown pilot Steve Fosset lost his life flying in this VERY search area that Matt may be missing in!

In summation....there is just TOO little information known of where Matt POSSIBLY went, to justify any more risk than boots on the ground in those few SPECIFIC areas. Too much time has elapsed, even for this highest form of technological aerial imagery. Nature has made sure of that.

There are teams still out there, and I am hoping and praying they may be the one's that step on that ultimate needle in a haystack.

My prayers are with Matt's family and friends....
10b4me

Ice climber
Wishes-He-Was-In-Arizona
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:15am PT
Patrick, his phone was not on.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:19am PT
I wouldn't assume it would be, but the chip can be tracked.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:30am PT
In regards to aerial searching, having a large amount of sorties under my belt, it is a very long shot to find a single person. Even wreckage of planes from the air often appear as nothing at first. However, there have been times in the past that a reflection caught an air born eye, or a dash of color.

As for flying the sierra yes- its "dangerous" to an extent- but now is some of the easiest flying conditions to be had up there, as opposed to December for instance. Most of my airborn time was in winter where one gets beat up literally from flying- coming back with black eyes from binoculars and lumps on heads from plexiglass. The more eyes the merrier imo..
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:34am PT
I'm not sure how to explain this any clearer:

A smart phone can be tracked through the chip. The phone does not need to be on or the battery have juice at all.

A google search turns up many examples, this is one:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/07/22/nsa_can_reportedly_track_cellphones_even_when_they_re_turned_off.html

There would probably need to be court order to release phone records. Local law enfocement probably does not have the technology or legality to do it themselves, but the Feds certainly do.

It would be great to see this NSA technology used for something good, not tracking low-level drug users and dealers by the DEA.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:43am PT
Just claim he had calves the size of cantaloupes and I'm sure the DEA will lend a hand tracking his cell phone.

I keep clicking on this thread every couple of days hoping to hear some sort of news and am disappointed each time. I can't imagine how the family/friends must feel right now. The sense of incompleteness must be overwhelming. Thanks to you all who are close enough to actually help out with this effort and I only wish that was in the position to do the same.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
I'm not sure how to explain this any clearer...
Ah, c'mon, try.

How could one track a cell phone thru the chip if it doesn't have any "juice" at all.
PeteC

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
Just something I thought I'd throw out, not to widen the net but:

One concrete fact that we know is the he brought his snow gear.

Probably the best known, most aesthetic snow climb is in condition in the Mammoth Lakes area is Red Slate couloir.


Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:53am PT
PeteC....I had a stellar view of Red Slate Couloir from the top of the Ritter Glacier two days ago....the lower half of the route is melted out.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:55am PT
Give us yur low down Crag..
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:56am PT
In regards to what, Ron?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:57am PT
The rest of your report. Many are anxious im sure (like me);-)..
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:58am PT
There are reasons I would prefer to wait a bit until field teams are out of the BC and safe.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:59am PT
Regarding Red Slate being melted out

Well that would make it a perfect spot to get in trouble. That unfortunately is true of anywhere out there though. Doesn't take much to be in real trouble when solo.

This kind of thing is so frustrating for those who wish to help. So many possibilities and all that can be done is to go take a look if you feel up to it and have the time and resources to donate. If folks do plan to search I'd suggest coordinating with the main search effort so you are not duplicating efforts unnecessarily.

For those close to the lost it is so much more than frustrating. May all of you find some peace in your hearts.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:04am PT
Re tracking unpowered cellphones: you just can't do it. If its off, so is the GPS. It's easy enough to prove to yourself if you doubt me. NSA has some interesting capabilities, tracking an unpowered cell phone isn't one of them.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:09am PT
climbski2....yes, you are correct...however....

Red Slate is just one of MANY things we climbers know as attractive. But within Matt's conversations with friends, Red Slate was not mentioned.

As I stated above, to begin searching pell mell all over the eastern Sierra every snow-filled gully is unacceptable risk.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:18am PT
I agree from a organized SAR point of view. This is the worst type of search scenario. No definite area. A few vague conversations indicating interest. Vast Rugged fairly hazardous terrain even for experienced mountaineers. A person could disappear and be 10 feet from a main trail and never be found.

Yet a private individual who regularly travels in these types of areas. Who climbs and loves doing it. That person like yourself will wish to be of assistance. If they are going out there anyway it can't hurt to offer a hand and perhaps coordinate.

SO frustrating.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:20am PT
Cragman, you're a pro. Analysis so far is spot on. It's time to minimize the risk to others, while still honoring Matt and his family.

Without getting too explicit - but recognizing Cragman's opinion that the search is for a body at this point - nature has a way of scattering remains to a wider area than the incident point. Randy Morgenson disappeared in the Sierra and his remains were found 5 years later by hikers.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:20am PT
^^Likely the way any evidence will ever be found....at some point.


EDIT: Crankster.....thanks for the compliment.
WBraun

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:24am PT
HFCS -- "How could one track a cell phone thru the chip if it doesn't have any "juice" at all."

Same here as we know this is bullsh!t.

Smartphones when they are so called turned off may actually have the Tx pings still on at intervals between sleep with very little current current drain between those cycles.

This is how you can "wake up" the phone from the tower if it has the firmware capabilities within the phones hardware.

Take the battery completely out and nothing will work .....
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:29am PT
PeteC....I had a stellar view of Red Slate Couloir from the top of the Ritter Glacier two days ago....the lower half of the route is melted out.
true, but remember when he would have seen it would have been almost a month ago. might have looked appealing then.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:31am PT
^But again....it was never mentioned in conversation....so....
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:34am PT
Crag -

Clyde, Eichorn, Dawson, Robinson and a handful of Inyo boys found Walter Starr's final resting place on the NE Face of Micael Minaret, a month after he left his camp at Ediza with limited clues. It can be daunting but search areas can be minimized and narrowed down. i have a feeling Matt is out in the Minarets.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:37am PT
^I agree, mooch. Unfortunately, official searches cannot be mounted on "a feeling".

I'm hoping we will have success, however long it may be.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:39am PT
I think Crag is talking about organized SAR operations. Not groups of exceptionally qualified mountaineers.

I think it's hard for folks who havn't worked in a SAR organization to realize how varied your memberships abilities are. How few truly excellent competent mountaineers tend to be available.

Just because good climbers can do something fairly safely does not mean a SAR group can. Very few SAR organizations have the talent of YOSAR at hand. Even YOSAR has to slow down and be careful based on their less capable members I'd suspect. Just the need for clear communication can slow things down when enough folks are involved.

Reminds me of a question Honnold was asking Tom this summer...What would be easy for him.. not so easy for an organization.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Im confused over the "minimizing risk" . That was never the motto of the CAP unit i was in. We flew in crappy winter conditions for weeks after the golden period in order to bring recovery and closure.

Thinking its impossible to search from the air is a bit of a reach also. Yes many plane wrecks can hardly be detected from the air, yet individuals have been found, as well as small crash sites with very little large debris fields. The handy thing about Air search is the Opposite views from any one on the ground.

I also perfectly understand the time factor here and what we are more than likely searching for,, unless the tip in Minden pans out.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:41am PT
Ron, I really hope that tip in Minden pans out....I love thinking of Matt as alive and well.
Deekaid

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:46am PT
there has to be something to searching/ being found by air or it wouldn't be in every survival manual known to man especially what Tom Cochrane is talking about
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Crag,,from the start, i thought it may be credible,, and i have no clue why. But people have just "bugged out " before..

Odds of course point to the hills. But i will remain on max alert for a black and white backpack.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
For the record....we had a subject go missing after leaving on a 4 day backpack trip out of Mono Village at Twin Lakes, Bridgeport.

A few of us searched every summer.

His remains were found 7 years and 3 months after he disappeared.
two0nine

Mountain climber
Far Away, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
Don't let egos get in the way- "If I didn't find him no one else will be able to" is the tone I'm picking up.

HD aerial search should absolutely be supported.

Flying over the mountains can be dangerous, but with this technology the pilot will not be buzzing canyons. How one can say this is much more dangerous that having groups of climbers in treacherous terrain is beyond me.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
twoOnine...if you read all of my posts, you will realize that the "tone" you are picking up is way off base.

To be sure, there are MANY people who know more about SAR than I ever will. However, this is not my first rodeo.

I have learned that there needs to be two different mindsets between searching for the living and the deceased.

I've also cut far too many bodies out of light aircraft in the mountains.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
Crag, i know there would be a host of aircraft involved had this been a senators son. I had around 1000 air sorties on missions. Yep its dangerous flying in the hills. Its dangerous anytime any one lifts off the ground to a degree. Right now with warm high pressures is the best time to fly those hills. Many of those hours i was air born was searching for a recovery, not a rescue. We are all aware of the golden hours/days. Is it worth it? To the familys affected i can answer a definite yes. During the many searches, we had only four mishaps with search aircraft. Only 1 resulted in fatality's when a helicopter sent in to retrieve wreckage went down. A good safety record considering. Dont fear for them flyboys. They like that shyt just like you. ;-)
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Ron, et al...trust me when I say, I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong here, in every way.

The thought of being proven right is unfathomable.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Truly the chances are near equal from a ground or air search. From the ground , yes you are CLOSELY examining what can be seen from where you go. So in that small zone, the search can be concluded- finished and dismissed from the possibles. From the air they will cover much more area although no where near the exactness of ground search. But with the technology and cameras today they CAN cover some areas well from the air including sow fields and the like. A good flight around mid peak levels will eliminate as much ground as a ground search does of their areas much of the time. Which is a small portion of any given search area.


In 1976 we found a missing hiker near donner summit from the air. He had fallen from a rim rock formation above the lake. Got the right view at the right time. And we got LUCKY.
He was deceased in an area of large talus, and wasnt seen on the ground until they got to the very talus where he laid, but from the air could be seen well.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
No amount of discussion on ST is going to get a formal air SAR initiated. Not for someone missing as long as Matt. Cragman spent 3 hard days on the ground searching. I' m trusting his advice.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
The only way a formal search in ANY instance will be started, is if there is SOLID information.

This case has never had that benefit.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
we already have Mr Cochrane volunteering some flight time. Thats how this rolls now. Also,, getting in contact with the local Civil Air Patrol squadron to see if they have training events upcoming could be advisable, often times they will help on long going efforts such as this.


as a former "fly boy" im a bit biased, perhaps, and NONE of it hurts eh? If ever there was less dangerous flying time it is right now .
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
From Facebook today:

"For those that saw the post by Tom Cochrane regarding doing professional HD Video capture in-flight for later review - I believe this is happening today with Tony (one of the team out in CA) tagging along to advise where to go. Very good news!

Ed from SkyTime also went all over the place yesterday w/ the doors off his helicopter and some expert eyes for another 2 hours, however did not uncover anything.

Lastly, I know some people have asked how to submit donations "offline". Donations can be mailed to PO Box 315, Northampton, PA 18067. I will try to thank everyone on the regular fundraiser page so please specify if you wish to remain anonymous."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
We searched for a well known lawyer named Wannamaker, whom had gone missing on a flight in the sierras where we searched, then re-opened the search the following spring. He had $$$$$$$$$ with him doing some sort of transfer when he went missing.. Never found until over ten years later when deer hunters came across the wreckage with the skeletal remains of Wannamaker inside in the Tehachapi range. NO $$$$$ was found, so said the hunters. Someone between then and the wreck date probably became a millionaire... So yes some searches will take years if not decades to solve.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 14, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
Some smoke moved back into the area today, after 3 days of perfectly clear while we were back there.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 14, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Good Effort Crag,, really awesome of you to GRUNT up those trails you've been a thousand times.
Brian

climber
California
Aug 14, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
I just got back into town from a month on the road, and I've not been on Supertopo for weeks before that for a variety of reasons. But felt compelled to comment here given the amount of time I spend in the Sierra:

Many thanks to Dean, Doug, and all the other people who regularly put aside their time, money, energy (physical and emotional), and often safety to try and help others through work on SAR and similar efforts.

Brian
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 14, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
Ron...Owning SOE makes you biased towards flight..Good luck Cragman...RJ
WBraun

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
From my experience with aerial search flights they are generally not very productive for cases such as this one with Matt.

It's extremely difficult to see bodies that have been exposed to the elements for long periods of time.

In a matter of days bodies blend in to the surrounding landscape.

A subject that is covered in florescent material or bright colors maybe much better?

We had an aerial search weeks ago looking for a day old body and the chopper never saw anything even though it flew right over the top of the body several times.

I couldn't even see the body until I was within 20 feet of it.

We missed it the first sweep as we were only 50 feet away what to speak of seeing it from the air.

Maybe Tom Cochrane's "RED camera" may work?

Best wishes for all to finding Matt ......
mattyj

Mountain climber
Truckee
Aug 15, 2013 - 02:10am PT
Cragman -

I'm heading in on Sat to do Ritter / Banner as a 3-day trip. Longstanding plans from before Matt went missing, but we're going to fit some searching in. Was hoping to send you a PM with a few basic questions that might help focus our efforts. You have PMs turned off, I'd appreciate it if you'd drop me a line.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Aug 15, 2013 - 02:44am PT
If we get a heavy (upcoming) winter this story may never be solved. Kudos to those putting in the effort now, while conditions are most favorable.
Lori Fairchild

Social climber
Lehighton
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:34am PT
FROM MATT"S SISTER ON FACEBOOK:

I've gone through Matt's items at home; everything he typically leaves at my parents during these treks as well as all of his records and important files. I gained access to his cell phone account and confirmed what we were already told. Working on access to his hotmail account. We have records of his CC and bank. Nothing "new" - though I saw where he'd written out a very general overview of where he'd be with whom and he'd planned to be home on 8/18 at the very latest.

I wanted to share a few other messages from those looking.

"The guides at SWS have been guiding and climbing the Ritter Range for the last 7 days. All the guides are back at home with no reports of any evidence of Matthew. They and their clients have climbed Clyde Minaret, the glacier route on Ritter, the northface of Ritter, the Ritter/Banner Saddle, the Northridge, and the south face of Banner.

Lastly, I know not everyone sees every post on here, but there was a post quite a bit ago with follow up just yesterday that I want to make sure is seen because anything is possible and we need to keep eyes out not just in Mammoth Lakes but all around -
"The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced I saw him in MInden, NV on 8/6/13 at 10:42, walking north on 395. I am a retired cop and new member of Douglas Co. SAR, but did not pay that much attention to the guy at first. He had a backpack with what I thought was a burnt orange sleeping bag stuffed in the top. I saw that he had a burnt orange tent, and that could have been it. I saw the article the next day and reported it to Douglas Co, Carson City, and NHP. His options would have been to take hwy 50 to Lake Tahoe or continue on 395 through Reno and into Calif. heading to Susanville. If that was him I saw that is. He looked homeless, like he had just woken up and his hair was sticking up. He also had a several week growth of beard."

Side note - hospitals were notified of Matt's disappearance, as well as homeless shelters and hostels in the area - not sure how far that notification stretches though.

The efforts mentioned are but a few of all that are going on to help find Matt. There are many people helping in various ways including those who are risking their lives to physically look. I want each and every person to know how much I appreciate everything being done. Thank you. ~ Tiffany
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:03am PT
We're all thinking of Matt, you and Matt's other friends and family.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:15am PT
I wanted to say thank you again for all that is being done to look for my brother.

I feel better knowing that a search was done; even if he is not found.

I wanted to share something that I also shared via email w/ Tom.

Matt's last calls were with my parents (3:20 PST) and the repair shop (4:29 & 4:35pm PST) on the 16th. Texting began at 6pm PST and ended at 11:34pm PST. The last text he received but did not answer was at 5:33 am PST on the 17th. I mention this because the phone records seem to indicate he was turning his phone off when not in use; which would mean he'd have to be up and turning his phone on at that time on the 17th. I am trying to confirm with Detective Hornbeck if the last ping traced was from his last call or that last text.

FWIW, we traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone; we were kind of wondering if it's something that would have warranted a reply.
geo_nutt

Gym climber
the big bang
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:49am PT
To matt's sister, family and friends-

Some time ago I briefly lived in the lehigh valley and while I can't say I ever remember meeting Matt my thoughts and prayers are with you all during this difficult time.

Brian
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 15, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
FWIW, we traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone; we were kind of wondering if it's something that would have warranted a reply.

You might ask the detctive to request that info from the texters telephone company. They may have the text in their system.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Hi this is Ron , Matt's brother in law. I keep going back to what the retired cop said about seeing Matt in Minden. We know he for a fact he went to devils postpile, so he was traveling up there. Is there any where near Tahoe (crystal range) in desolation wilderness with snow this time of year? Pyramid peak?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Devil's Postpile is here in Mammoth.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
Highly doubtful of the desolation area being a possible.


IF he was seen in Minden, there is hgwy 88 west, highwy 50 west, us395 north and US50 east. Tahoe, Reno all accessible. A straw in a mountain of hay.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
Ahh, that makes more sense. Thanks!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Would there be ANY reason,, personal or otherwise that Matt would just want to "bug out"? Tired of jobs, life styles, relationships ?? ANY reason that he would just start hitchiking?
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
No snow/ice climbing in Tahoe in Aug. The Sierra south of Mammoth has numerous couloirs that attract climbers; Mt. Mendel, N. Palisade & others.
Hard to imagine he'd head there without bivy gear.
han

climber
Aug 15, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
Where is that individual located? Is he close to Matt?
Does he not know that Matt is missing until contacted by you?
Does Matt text him regularly or just that night?
How many text were sent and received from 6pm to 11:34pm?
(I don't need the answers), but if I were that individual, I'd go out of my way to contact family and remembering what the conversation is about. Find it strange that he can't recall anything.

Matt's last calls were with my parents (3:20 PST) and the repair shop (4:29 & 4:35pm PST) on the 16th. Texting began at 6pm PST and ended at 11:34pm PST. The last text he received but did not answer was at 5:33 am PST on the 17th. I mention this because the phone records seem to indicate he was turning his phone off when not in use; which would mean he'd have to be up and turning his phone on at that time on the 17th. I am trying to confirm with Detective Hornbeck if the last ping traced was from his last call or that last text.

FWIW, we traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone; we were kind of wondering if it's something that would have warranted a reply.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
I am no detective, but that does seem strange. I am sure there are logs of the text if you can get permission from the recipient.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 15, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
hhmmmm Minden tip gaining cred here ? The textEE needs to be re-questioned.

Something smells.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
processing 100 gigs of video capture now

we were able to see searchers on the ground

Credit: TomCochrane

Credit: TomCochrane

Credit: TomCochrane
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
Nice "flight path" Tom!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Tom, very impressive!

Please share your HR photos here if you think we can help look through them.

It's a gift living in this age.
Gal

Trad climber
going big air to fakie
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
Been following this thread. How difficult. Sending good thoughts, hopeful thoughts, wishful thoughts to all friends, family, and searchers.

TomC ~ Very awesome ~ love what technology can do for us!

Crag ~ that's cool you went out on a ground search, look forward to your TR.

@ R.Anderson, I thought the same thing about the textee, that just seems weird (maybe not, but right away, my first thoughts were how odd).

Hoping for you all. It's a tough situation in all aspects.
Ezra Ellis

Trad climber
North wet, and Da souf
Aug 15, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
My thoughts too Ron, investigate that last text, police should have NO problem gettin ahold of it!!!

Good on you Tom Chochrine.
Hoping for the best!
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
For those wondering about the texts; discovered this is actually EST time. Texts night of 16th all w friends; everything AOK. Text @ 2:53 am most likely one from previous night but Matt's phone was off so when he turned it on he rec'd it. Best guess is he'd complained about ppl packing early am (4am) and it waking him up; maybe the case?! The last text was from an older fellow from a climbing gym here in PA; he can't remember what it was but probably insignificant and not warranting a response. Not sure if able to trace the text location wise; trying to get answer from detective = trying to pull teeth. Not real happy about what I've heard about Detective. I'd like to see how he'd react to his own family member in same situation...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
The problem with aerial photography or photogrammetry in a SAR application isn't image acquisition, it's image processing / search. It's just a different form of the needle/haystack problem. People are working on both image and crowd-sourced analysis with the former being, at best, a tough technical challenge and the latter being more an image / resource management problem. People are working it, but it's a tough proposition for the reasons Werner states above.

http://www.sareye.com

http://internetsar.org/

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/228861479_Two-stage_Segmentation_of_Aerial_Images_for_Search_and_Rescue

http://cdm15999.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/IR/id/1147

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-07/small-drones-could-replace-search-and-rescue-helos-making-hiker-rescue-faster-and-cheaper

http://www.int-arch-photogramm-remote-sens-spatial-inf-sci.net/XXXIX-B1/441/2012/isprsarchives-XXXIX-B1-441-2012.pdf

tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Thank you so much Tom; I cannot thank you enough for the effort you've put forth with your flights.
ElCapPirate

Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Pretty awesome Tom! Huge Props to you.

he last text was from an older fellow from a climbing gym here in PA; he can't remember what it was but probably insignificant and not warranting a response.

Maybe a drunken text? If so, he should just say so.

Keeping my eyes peeled around Reno, just in case the Minden tip was accurate.

Hoping for the best.

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
Glad you had a safe flight, Tom! Good on ya!

I will have my report posted here first thing tomorrow morning.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
please recognize that a lot of thanks is due to the expertise and dedication of Chelsea Wagner

i did get her interested in climbing and flying and filming

she has become a competent climber, a professional video editor, and an excellent pilot; and she did the flying today while i wrestled the heavy RED camera

Tony Rogerson, with help from his friends Chris and Sean, also helped guide us in the air, so we are doing this as a team

video capture is just the start of the image processing and analysis

Chelsea is now putting in the long hours required using Final Cut Pro for image processing the video, optimizing image stabilization, color balance, saturation, and exposure levels; and rendering to enhance detail display

we plan to pull out high resolution single frame images that can be examined at length, especially by those of you who are intimately familiar with this terrain (unlike me who has never set foot in the area)

to my knowledge this technique has not been used within the SAR community and this is my first attempt in this context, but if it works, we could be on to something

remote sensing analysis has been used in many other areas...i have myself used these techniques for supporting wild fire teams and for environmental analysis by DOI and EPA and DOE...so i have direct experience that these methods require a lot of tedious work once images have been captured

Also, Tony did a great job of keeping his stomach intact with little forewarning as to what he was getting into... while acting as second cameraman, assistant cameraman, flight navigator, and aerial search coordinator!

we are planning to share Blue Ray disks to people who want to help study the images
Gal

Trad climber
going big air to fakie
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
Chelsea rocks too!!!
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
I wish there was a video of the missing guy. It's much easier to id a person from video than from photos. I had seen a guy who looked a lot like the first photo posted here (and some other pix), and in the same type of hat--in Luther Pass area, in Big Meadow campground, specifically (off 89, between South Lake Tahoe and 88/89 junction--88 goes to Minden from there, actually) where that person was for 2 nights, alone I think...but it was in late July. Don't think it could be him as the guy I've seen wasn't tanned--looked more like a city person, not someone into outdoors; he was way too pale for an outdoors person in July.
TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Here are two short videos that I have of Matt:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tdavidock/9448799608/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tdavidock/9448782010/in/pool-findmattgreene

Wish I had better ones. Do you remember any info about him? Tent type and color? Did he have a backpack? Facial hair? Was he driving? Thanks for anything you can share.

Tom
Klimmer

Mountain climber
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Wow, Tom et al that is really incredible work!

GOOD JOB!!!

I hope the effort really helps to solve this mystery. THAT is a lot of RED HD camera footage to look through very carefully.


I wondered what RED camera imagery was ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Digital_Cinema_Camera_Company



Now I know. ;-)
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
we plan to pull out high resolution single frame images that can be examined at length, especially by those of you who are intimately familiar with this terrain (unlike me who has never set foot in the area)

to my knowledge this technique has not been used within the SAR community and this is my first attempt in this context, but if it works, we could be on to something

This sort of single image, crowd-sourced image analysis/search has been and is used in a number of applications. If you can use your experience to make it easier to setup and manage I'm sure there are no shortage of folks who would be grateful.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
I've looked at the videos--he does look a lot like the person I've seen in Luther Pass/Big Meadow... but then, again, there can be a lot of people who look alike. I've seen that person wearing ball cap/hat mostly, and only once without a hat--he had receding hairline, so very high forehead, and his height appeared to be about 5'10-5'11ish.. The video doesn't show a lot, of course, and the helmet is on.

I didn't notice many details--whatever I noticed back then I forgot by now, like the tent and the car, if there was one (backpackers like to stay in this camp sometimes, it's a primitive camp near Tahoe Rim trail). That person was in site #1 or 2 (these are back to back sites), and the tents in one of these sites tend to be way back where you can't see them. No facial hair. Sites #1 and 2 share one parking spot there, so you can't tell whose cars are parked, actually.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Been following this thread but haven't posted yet

Just gotta say a huge thanks to Dean, Tom and everyone else looking for Matt. I'm sure his friends and family are so grateful for your efforts.

Threads like this one...and the one on Blitzo...make me so proud to be a member of the climbing family. When times get tough we look out for each other so well.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
we are planning to share Blue Ray disks to people who want to help study the images

Tom, its been mentioned before in this thread - you might want to contact tomnod.com, which is a crowd-sourced platform that lets volunteers look through and tag large numbers of images. This was used in the search for Ben and Gil last year in Peru. They might be willing to host your HD images. Nate Ricklin, part of the tomnod team used to post on the Taco.... Do a search, or use his email mentioned at http://tomnod.com/team/

What do you usually use the Red camera for? That's a very high end piece of equipment! What resolution are the video frames you are producing for the search?

Great that you are taking the time to do this!!! It's an impressive effort.


edit - watching Blue Ray video does not fit with tomnod and still frames....

need a crowd sourced HD vdo tomnod style platform..

TeddyKGBee

Trad climber
Chester Springs
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
I contacted Tomnod and they put in a request for imagery, but haven't heard back from them in over a week. I have an email and contact for the person that responded to my request. PM me and I will share if you think this video could be of some use to them. They were quick to respond to my email.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
not to make light,
but life is theatre,
and this is a dramatic production.

a wonderful stage is up there,
for whatever the encore might present.

a good place to get lost,
a good place to search for clues,
a good place to surrender,
a good place at which we cast our hope.

even a good place to die.

the human spirit is on proud display, here.

~ Norwegian ~
WURD!!!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:11am PT
GUD to hear from you again Splitter!
Seems appropriate!!

Wish I could be up there look'in!

GUD luck Friends!!
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:07am PT
The Minarets taken today from 16,500 feet on the way home
The Minarets taken today from 16,500 feet on the way home
Credit: TomCochrane
We have used the Final Cut Pro editing program to compile a 23-minute HD video of scenes captured during several hours of rotating around the Minarets. This will take most of tonight to render.

Rendering is generally required any time Final Cut Pro must perform more calculations than the computer can handle in real time. It is usually needed for high-quality final output produced from files created by the RED camera. The editing is performed on lower res proxy files prior to rendering. The proxy files don't display anywhere near the quality of the rendered version.

The next challenge is how to view final output material that is designed to be projected on a full-sized theatrical movie screen. We have been studying a proxy version on a four-foot wide video display and are looking forward to examining it in greater detail when the rendering is complete in the morning.

We plan to share Blue Ray copies of this for people who have a way to view them to contribute to the search for Matt. We could share the video on something like YouTube, which would provide a nice aerial tour of the Minarets, but without providing the level-of-detail required for SAR purposes.

We also plan to create single frame captures at high res that can be shared more easily than HD video running at 30 frames per second. However this is not something we have done before.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 16, 2013 - 03:44am PT
^^ that is awesome. if nothing else, perhaps this will help to bring to light more streamlined and effective ways to meld technology and a userbase into the searches of the future
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 04:29am PT
Is there an easy way to annotate the images to show the areas that have been searched?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:25am PT
I eagerly look forward to the results that Tom and his friends get with their film.

I have posted a TR of the searching Doug and I did of the Ritter/Banner area.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Looked over maps last night. From Minden, the most obvious paths MIGHT be:

Us 50 West into the tahoe basin, or hgy 88 west over carson pass area. I personally looked up clear creek canyon so that is out.


And NICE JOB with that filming Tom and crew! And team D&D, great job on elimination of areas!
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Ron...I could not say that we "eliminated" areas. The area we covered is SO difficult, we could have easily missed him. It would not surprise me one iota, should Matthew's remains be found in our search zone.


That being said, we are content with what we felt compelled to do.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:22am PT
The following photos are NOT high resolution, but are simply JPEG screen captures that show the frame outline of some of the RED images we captured.

As I am not intimate with this area the way many of you are, it will be a helpful contribution if you recognize their location and help tag whether they are a priority to examine in high resolution.

We snatched these out of a fast moving video stream that would no doubt help you identify the location. I am not trying to increase your challenge of identifying these locations...just that we are not there yet with sharing video clips or high res images.

Credit: TomCochrane

Credit: TomCochrane

We have tagged the preliminary edited video stream with arbitrary time code numbers in the upper left of each frame, to help keep track of what we are looking at.

We are producing a 23-minute video that is about 20 gigabytes and could be viewed from Blue Ray, Quicktime, DVD, or Vimeo account. We may place it on the Vimeo account of our little company, Liquid Light Inc.

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:24am PT
round top mountain in mokelumne wilderness
(tahoe area)
has three attactive snow / mixed couloirs
this time of year.

i'll see about getting over there in the next week.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:25am PT
Nice Tom!



And Dean,, yes you eliminated where you guys walked. That is a help! Certainly he could be in any large talus field, however ,, MOST of us miss those purposefully.

Ledges and shrunds seem to be obvious "catchers"..
WBraun

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Isn't Banner Ritter and the Minarets area under jurisdiction of Madera County?

So that would be under Madera County Sheriffs office for any official searches in that region?

In 1971 we flew to the notch between Banner and Ritter.

One of the people we were looking for mistakenly walked out the wrong way and ended up coming out the west side at Mineral King.

There's many times the person will end up some where way out in left field outside the "assumed" search area.

These kinds of missing people searches are "Needle in the Haystack" affairs .....
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
a little intro into the arcane subject of HD Video:

High-definition video is video of higher resolution than is standard. While there is no specific meaning for high-definition, generally any video image with more than 480 horizontal lines (North America) or 570 lines (Europe) is considered high-definition. 720 scan lines is generally the minimum even though many systems greatly exceed that. Images of standard resolution captured at rates faster than normal (60 frames/second North America, 50 fps Europe), by a high-speed camera may be considered high-definition in some contexts.

Most computers are capable of HD or higher resolutions over VGA, DVI, and/or HDMI.

The optical disc standard Blu-ray Disc can provide enough digital storage to store hours of HD video content.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_video

High-definition television (HDTV) resolution is 1,080 or 720 lines. In contrast, regular digital television (DTV) is 480 lines (upon which NTSC is based, 480 visible scanlines

We are shooting 30 frames per second at 4K (4096 x 2048 which is 8.4 mega pixels per frame). This can currently only be displayed directly with a special projector in a major movie theater. However the advantage for this project is that we can crop out a 25% section of the picture and still have 1280x720 to look at on a Blue Ray disk.

We also shot some passes at 60 frames per second at 3K, to help stabilize shots taken from the airplane.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
it would be nice to see the DRONE technology a bit more prevalent in the SAR fields..
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
No doubt this will evolve in the future.

RC hand-launched drones would be a game changer - flying slow and low over all those nooks and crannies, ledges and moats, already mentioned. At a micro-fraction of the cost, too.

It's a shame this ability doesn't already exist. Imagine a company based somewhere off the east side with a dozen of these ready to go out of somebody's garage when in need.

It could even be set up such that these drones could be controlled by sleepy-ass couch climbers like us. Wouldn't that be something!



Of course Rosnau Rescue would have to be licensed to fly and then only at approved SAR times. We couldn't have its squadron of drones flying over the Minarets just whenever.