Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1721 - 1740 of total 2376 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
If that person doesn't remember the exact text of a "talk to you later" kind of message, that's imaginable...but I hope they remember the general content of conversion if they did text back and forth, otherwise it's really strange. Knowing you're the last one to text a missing person would be a great help to refresh the memory?

Verizon specifically clarifies in FAQ:
"Verizon Wireless will attempt to deliver the message when your phone is powered on and you are in the Verizon Wireless digital service area. If the phone is powered off or you have traveled outside of the Verizon Wireless digital service area, the network will store the message for later delivery. The network will attempt to deliver the message for 5 days (120 hours) from the date of Verizon Wireless' receipt of the message. Messages not delivered within 5 days will be automatically deleted."

So yes, this was definitely a power on and message sent earlier had been delivered. No voice mail checking. Sounds like was expecting 3am call, possibly? Doesn't seem like regular alarm for early start--alarms are usually set at times like 3am, 3.15, 3.30, etc, too random of a time. As to getting up to go to the restroom...I think a person who has a misfortune to wake up due to need to use a restroom in campground would rather want to be done and go back to sleep instead of disrupting their sleep further by turning the phone on (same about being woken up by noise)...unless...couldn't find a flashlight and tried to use phone light to help finding it?
Waiting for important call is definitely one strong possibility. Another is checking on important text (or voicemail that never came in). He wasn't waiting for mechanic to call him, that's for sure.

Did he get up that early for climbs in the past? If he turned the phone off around 9 to get early sleep--in these campgrounds it gets quiet around 10 (if it does get quiet at all), so he'd have less than 5 hours of sleep , considering noise bothered him (isn't a heavy sleeper?). It is certainly enough for some people before a big hike/climb, but would need an alarm to get up that early anyway, most likely--so, one possibility is setting alarm few minutes before something (phone call) expected at 3am. Another is planning to get up at around 3am but waking up a little earlier without alarm and turning the phone on.
CyDuke

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
Has it ever been determined what time the sender of the 2:53am text sent the text? I know he cannot remember what he said, but does he recall what time he sent it? Or can he check his phone records. On his end, it may show when he sent it, not when Matt received it.

It could be important - because maybe the message was sent at 5:53am PA time which is not unreasonable for someone that might be up getting ready for work. He may have assumed Matt's phone would be off but would get the message when he turned the phone on. If this is the case, then maybe Matt fell asleep prior to turning his phone off and got the message in real time. He could have shut the phone off at that point. And that could make a difference in the assumption that he got up early either for a ride or a long day somewhere on foot.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
It was mentioned that the sender of the last text was "no longer on that phone" which sounds puzzling: Deleted the text?--or changed phone number? If he still got his account he can see the time he sent that message.
CyDuke

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
If he still got his account he can see the time he sent that message.

He could probably even call his provider and get the info. They probably won't have the content of text, but they should be able to give the time it was sent. Might be important to know.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
Cyduke and Tioga,

Interesting speculations. Earlier in the thread, Tiffany said:

Text @ 2:53 am most likely one from previous night but Matt's phone was off so when he turned it on he rec'd it. Best guess is he'd complained about ppl packing early am (4am) and it waking him up; maybe the case?! The last text was from an older fellow from a climbing gym here in PA; he can't remember what it was but probably insignificant and not warranting a response.

Jill, John, Tiffany, Ron:

Do you happen to know whether Matt wore a watch and/or used an alarm when on climbing trips?
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
So, from the statement of that fellow from PA it wasn't something that he'd send at around 6am EST most likely ("insignificant"). Well, it's significant now.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
He wasn't waiting for a call/text of "I'm coming to pick you up" kind" pretty sure--as he'd try to call that person since he received no call from them. Also, if he waited for someone to pick him up, and they were a no show--he'd try to call them as well. And he didn't call or text anyone. Or, to check if they left "change of plans, cancelling" message--there was no such cancellation message (one possibility discussed was he hitchiked due to a no show of his ride, but from phone records it seems like this didn't take place) Then, perhaps--if he indeed expected a ride at that early hour--he turned the phone on so that the driver could call him if they had trouble finding him (and to be sure there's no cancellation) and that the person arrived as planned--one of many possible explanations.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:17am PT
Sounds like was expecting 3am call, possibly?

I wouldn't conclude this...

When camping, I often find myself awak in the middle of the night, and out of boredom or curiosity turn the phone on to check email, check the weather forecast, or whatever. A lot of spots on the East Side have cellular data reception.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Well, his phone didn't have internet capablities...so it's voice or text. Unless he merely used it as either watch, alarm or flashlight.

Btw, there're phones that won't go into full boot (and won't download text messages) if only used as alarm. There're also phones that can't be used as alarm from powered down state. One got to know the specs for his model.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:33am PT
He could have been checking voicemail, then.

Maybe I missed this upthread... Smartphones are not the only phones with internet capability. My old clamshell dumb phone had limited internet capability, and I could check my email on it if I had configured it that way.

My only point being that it's still not conclusive that he was expecting a phone call at 3am based solely on the fact that he turned his phone on...

Maybe he was, but I don't think it's a given.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 12:37am PT
Well if you read my posts and that specific one, you can see many possibilities that I describe...and specifically mention "one out of many possibilities". At this point, all these possibilities have similar likelihood.

I believe his family had posted that his phone did not have internet capability, somewhere at the start of this long thread.

My clamshell phone has primitive browser as well, but checking simple gmail from it is so hard that easier not to check at all, unless it's super-urgent.

To think of it, doesn't look like he was waiting for important/urgent voicemail either, as when there's no new voicemail alert, a person will likely still call and check voicemail, just to be sure (no voicemail was dialed from his phone after that power up). And the only other record that stands out as very early is 5.04am incoming call on July 15th.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 7, 2013 - 01:50am PT
tdg119- Kenish where are you getting these logs. The info I have doesnt show text locations

The 253am text was north of a tower on Mammoth Mtn. This info is stated in the very original post...I also recall some Verizon info posted to a different website before this thread started, and it showed the north direction.

If that is indeed true, it indicates the Main Lodge area. (The campground is east of Mammoth Mtn.) FYI, I have a smartphone on Verizon. Coverage in town and anywhere on the front side of the ski area (north of the peak) is "3 bars" or better. (Texts are transmitted with cellular voice data, and not on the 3G/4G signal).
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:13am PT
doesn't look like he was waiting for important/urgent voicemail either, as when there's no new voicemail alert, a person will likely still call and check voicemail, just to be sure

Well, I don't dial in to check voicemail when there's no alert, and can't imagine doing so unless it's a call that's extraordinarily important... I don't even know how to do that...

Maybe someone who knows Matt can give info on his tendencies in this regard.
onyourleft

climber
Smog Angeles
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Alpineholydog wrote:
Just Returned from Trip through Mammoth. We took Mammoth Taxi up to Agnew Meadows and again noticed how very narrow the road from Mineret Summit to Agnew Meadows is. It would be best searched by hiking and examining the downhill side closely. Lots of brush that could easily obscure things. I think if he hiked to Agnew he had to take this road.

The following are some cell phone pictures taken on my (slow) road bike ride from Mammoth to Red's Meadow and back on Saturday, 8/31:

Matthew's Flyer on the Minaret Vista Ranger Kiosk as one enters the ro...
Matthew's Flyer on the Minaret Vista Ranger Kiosk as one enters the road down to Agnew Meadows
Credit: onyourleft

Turnoff to Agnew Meadows
Turnoff to Agnew Meadows
Credit: onyourleft

Road heading back towards Minaret Vista from Agnew Meadows turnoff. <br/>
...
Road heading back towards Minaret Vista from Agnew Meadows turnoff.
Downhill side on right. If Matt were hit and thrown off the road, presumably he would have fallen to camera right, the downslope side
Credit: onyourleft

Downslope side showing underbrush and fallen trees adjacent to road
Downslope side showing underbrush and fallen trees adjacent to road
Credit: onyourleft

A couple of years back, there was a catastrophic wind event that blew ...
A couple of years back, there was a catastrophic wind event that blew down thousands of trees on the western slopes of the canyon near Red's Meadow. It appears the USFS has done a considerable effort of clearing the downed trees.
Credit: onyourleft

Another view adjacent to the road.  The frequent watercourses would sh...
Another view adjacent to the road. The frequent watercourses would show some low vegetation, but rarely was the vegetation more than about a meter tall. I did not see any evidence of anything non-natural.
Credit: onyourleft

More cleared brush and downed trees.  This area is approximately 2/3 o...
More cleared brush and downed trees. This area is approximately 2/3 of the distance from Agnew Meadows to the Minaret Summit Ranger Kiosk
Credit: onyourleft

The Ritter Range on the Western Skyline from near the kiosk <br/>
Once aga...
The Ritter Range on the Western Skyline from near the kiosk
Once again, the area nearest to the road surface was surprisingly free of underbrush.
Credit: onyourleft
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 7, 2013 - 02:50am PT
Kenish, as far as I know, no location was provided for the text message, or for any text message. The "top of Mammoth Mountain" location -- later determined by SAR to be more like in the direction of Mammoth Mountain, perhaps at the Main Lodge -- was for when Matt called the repair shop at 4:29pm and 4:35pm the previous afternoon (7/16). I think there was some initial confusion about this here...

Split Pants posted:

This is the call/text detail I have for the 16th and 17th (Tiffany let me know if I copy/pasted something wrong).

7/16 11:12 AM EDT / 8:12 AM PDT 1 Peak -- (voicemail)
7/16 6:00 PM EDT / 3:00 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 6:06 PM EDT / 3:06 PM PDT 24 Peak -- (parents)
From 8:12 AM to 3:06 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.638167 Lon -118.961611, 1601 Meridian Blvd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca.
Directly south of the library. Directly north a mile or two from where Matt was camping.

7/16 7:29 PM EDT / 4:29 PM PDT 1 Peak -- (repair shop)
7/16 7:35 PM EDT / 4:35 PM DPT 2 Peak -- (repair shop)
From 4:29 PM to 4:35 PM cell phone registered:
Lat 37.630528 Lon -119.033078, 5920 Minaret Rd, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, top of Mammoth Mtn. After examination/discussing with SAR and looking at the Azimuth (deg) per the ping, it was determined Matt "possibly" called from the Main Lodge or anywhere in that direction.

This is the last phone call from Matt’s phone (per MLPD no more pings after the 16th of July at 4:35 pm)

7/16 7:40 PM EDT / 4:40 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 8:57 PM EDT / 5:57 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 9:13 PM EDT / 6:13 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 10:38 PM EDT / 7:38 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 10:52 PM EDT / 7:52 PM PDT Text Received
7/16 11:09 PM EDT / 8:09 PM PDT Text Sent
7/16 11:34 PM EDT / 8:34 PM PDT Text Received

Per MLPD Verizon re: text message retrieval. Verizon only holds that information for about 3 to 4 days.
Per Verizon too much time has passed by.


July 17th (Wednesday)
07/17 5:53 AM EDT / 2:53 AM PDT Text Received

Family traced who sent that last txt message and made contact but unfortunately the individual does not remember what he'd said and it's no longer on his phone.

Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July, as indicated on my Verizon emergency request re: Greene’s cell phone, his phone was turned off/powered off.
The 2:48 pm is not a ping, because there is no Lat & Lon indicated.

Per MLPD: Verizon nor any other cellular service provider ping text, it pings the telephone when the telephone is on, not turned off.
Sonoma Jack

Social climber
Sonoma, ca
Sep 7, 2013 - 05:46am PT
"When camping, I often find myself awak in the middle of the night, and out of boredom or curiosity turn the phone on to check email, check the weather forecast, or whatever. A lot of spots on the East Side have cellular data reception."

Yes, true, but as duly stated, Matt had no history, whatsoever, of doing anything like this. You pull a month of records, you would think you would see some kind of pattern. His pattern was, apparently that of being sound asleep at 3am. The cell call here is peculiar, and I'm in no way implying some sort of foul play, as that just doesn't seem likely.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July..

So, what does this piece of data mean, since it's not a ping (12 hours after the last known activity on his phone)?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 7, 2013 - 11:10am PT
Per MLPD: 2:48 pm, July 17, 2013, 39 Pinecrest, Mammoth Lakes, Ca, Verizon building and tower.This address is the main Verizon building/tower in Mammoth Lakes. There is no outbound phone call activity after the 16th of July, as indicated on my Verizon emergency request re: Greene’s cell phone, his phone was turned off/powered off.
The 2:48 pm is not a ping, because there is no Lat & Lon indicated.

So, what does piece of data mean, since it's not a ping?

Tioga, forgive me if I'm just rehashing stuff you know, but as I understand it, a ping means a cell tower sends a signal to a phone and the phone responds. I gather that a cell phone provider can find the location of a cell phone in two ways. If the phone has GPS capability, it uses that to determine where the phone is. If the phone doesn't have GPS, the location of the phone can sometimes be determined by triangulation -- by measuring the relative strength of the cell phone's response to several cell phone towers. (I think we figured out that Matt's phone didn't have GPS but am not sure. Also, the police say that texts don't involve pings, so the exact location of the phone when it received the 2:53am text can't be determined.)

So I think this piece of data just means that someone tried to call Matt on the 17th at 2:48pm, but his phone was either turned off or out of range. So the "location" was given as the location of the cell phone tower that tried to reach the phone, which was the main Verizon tower in Mammoth Lakes. (Given that Matt often turned of his phone to save battery power and probably also was out of range, I don't regard this as very informative.)

The phone bill also says that that was one of three calls that were made to Matt's phone on the 17th, that all reverted to the main cell phone tower. I'm a little curious about the timing of the other two calls, but they wouldn't provide us with much info -- just other moments at which Matt's phone was off or was out of range.
Sonoma Jack

Social climber
Sonoma, ca
Sep 7, 2013 - 11:38am PT
I'll ad just a couple of observations. My son and brother were hiking the JMT, and were taking a two day break in Mammoth on July 16-17, so this story peaked our curiosity, and I've been following it. Based upon the information collected so far, I believe that the 3am phone Check indicates that Matt was indeed set to travel to a far off destination, which could have lasted more than one day. It seems he knew his car would not be ready until later in the day, or even possibly the following day. He had no job of obligations that put him on a tight schedule. If memory serves, he didn't give his friends an exact ETA on when he'd meet up, but an approximation.

When I picked my son up in Merced after his hike, at the Amtrak Depot, he was with a group of foreign hikers from Chili he befriended in Mammoth. We had a brief conversation in Spanish after my son introduced them. I found it interesting that the highlight of their trip, and their main objective was to summit Mt. Whitney. I'm not saying that this was Matt's plan, but I would think Whitney would be high on the list of foreigner, or East Coast visitor to the high Sierras. It is a destination of many an outside visitor. He could have received a ride to Lone Pine from one of these foreign tourist who were picking up a partner hiking Whitney. the following day, they leave the country, have no clue that he's missing. One other question you might need to ask: Was Matt first and foremost a backpacker/hiker, who also enjoyed climbing, of was he a climber who hiked as a means to achieve his climbing endeavors? The answer to this may help determine his destination. If I were involved in searching for Matt, I would certainly make the drive to Lone Pine and ask around.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 7, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Just a remote possibility, LAHiker, but could it be that a brielf and very weak signal (from remote area; the kind when you turn on your cell phone and there's no signal--then briefly there's extremely weak signal but not enough to make a call) came in from his phone reaching only one tower at that time, 2.48pm on the 17th (in this case triangulation on multiple towers could not be performed and "location" was not determined by Verizon). In these cases location (or radius from tower) can actually still be very roughly approximated, based on signal strength and round trip time, but their system might not register/store these, due to coarseness of the location. I remember a case of stranded people in the mountains--they had no signal, but there happened to be a short random ping about a week after they got stranded (their account as monitored by police at that moment, which allowed to capture approx. location of the phone, since they probably stored all traffic including simple handshake with a tower by then) and they were found.

The second possibility is yes, incoming data (call or text) to his phone at that time, and Verizon would definitely know if it was the meaning of that record.
Messages 1721 - 1740 of total 2376 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews