Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
^^^ Stzzo- Sorry, you're correct. I misread the library employee's comments to LA Hiker. So, it may have been from an internal library computer or a personal device brought into the library. It's still uncertain whether it was Matt or someone else.

Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

@ikat- I recall a few weeks ago that the library clears out browsing history every evening. That would be expected SOP for public access computers. The drives could be forensically searched because files aren't completely erased, but requires legal intervention and the library allowing removal of the hard drives. 7 weeks have gone by and the chance of latent data still being there diminishes with time. The "erased" data is free disk space available to overwrite new data, and eventually that will happen.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

Sure, but logging off in the browser is not the same is resetting the internet connection & getting a new IP. Only investigation will confirm, but it's highly likely that library computers either:

 Route through a router that uses one external IP for all computers on their network.
 A stay "online" and keep IP addresses for long periods, in spite of user activity.

And I don't mean to hijack the thread to talk about typical LAN configurations, only to say that I think it's more likely than not that a library computer would maintain an IP for a while.

Couple of odd things about summitpost...

 The MattGreene profile page says "Last Active: Sep 11, 2013".
 There's a user "MG13" who joined on Jul 16 and has posted only one post: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mg13/107266, http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/post929627.html#p929627
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and expertise. If there's any way we can find out what Matt accessed on the 16th, that would be great. I gather from what people are saying that that may be difficult, so I hope that there's progress in getting access to Matt's email and in interviewing the Morales family.

One caution re my conversation with the library employee. Her response did seem to confirm MGuzzy's interpretation that the library's computers were connected by a wireless network and thus that the "wireless carrier" referred to by Detective Hornbeck could have involved Matt's activity on a PC and not wasn't just someone else coming in there with a laptop or smartphone.

But because I know very little about this area, I didn't know how to confirm it by asking for details or how to probe further about it. The employee was kind of busy and it might not have been her area either. So if further info is needed maybe someone who is more knowlegeable can talk with library people (and especially whoever handles the computers and internet there) under more relaxed conditions. Maybe SplitPants has already done just that.

And maybe Detective Hornbeck can clarify what he thought was meant. Because he's presumably very busy, I wanted to get see if the library could answer my fairly basic question.

I do have a question about this. How did the library tell that someone had accessed those sites? Presumably not by looking at "history" on their PCs, because apparently that's deleted at the end of each day.

Would they looked at or searched a log of all internet connections made by the library? If so, and assuming that the log includes connections made on the PCs and not just by Wifi, could they search it by date and time? If so, maybe they could see if a bunch of mountaineering sites were accessed on July 16th, at around the time Matt was there. Also, if they know that the sites were accessed, would the library's log also have info about which pages were accessed??
mattyj

Mountain climber
Truckee
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
I hate to sound harsh but in addition to the hypotheticals and speculation mentioned by Cragman, there is a lot of re-hashing of existing information going on in this thread. Which is fine if there's something new to add/discuss, but blindly having the same conversations over and over only succeeds in lowering the signal to noise ratio.

On SummitPost and IPs, specifically:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2211399#msg2211399

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2211475#msg2211475

Forensically searching the library computers for deleted browsing information was discussed to death upthread. All arguments about how technically possible it may be or might have been a month ago aside, that ship has sailed.
SplitPants

Social climber
LA
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
All,
Thanks for all of the info and ideas. We are working on obtaining information from the library network admin. We will know more regarding the follow up/results late Friday. So perhaps we can change the topic to something else like areas to search or something along those lines?

Thanks and keep your fingers crossed:)
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
LAHiker- I do have a question about this. How did the library tell that someone had accessed those sites? Presumably not by looking at "history" on their PCs, because apparently that's deleted at the end of each day.


I don't know what kind of networking equipment they have at the Library but even simple routers will maintain a log of all the internet traffic that goes through them. And they could have a very simple yet secure private wireless network where only the workstations in the Library are allowed access (probably by only allowing the MAC addresses of the workstations). Newer Dual band routers can share guest access to the internet and still allow an internal private WiFi network. But given this is a municipality it will have more advanced equipment.
Just guessin'
CyDuke

climber
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Don't know if this will be of any benefit, but here is a link to quite a few high res images of the Ritter Range area. Some pics are very close up, other are area scenic shots. There are also a handful of videos. (There are 5 pages of images, the videos are on page 5). These pics were taken a week or two after Matt was last seen, but I am not sure of exact date. Image names say July, but the blog post says August. It was after the fire had started because there are some pictures of the distant smoke.

Anyway, I looked at pictures for any kind of clue, but didn't see anything. But, this may show what the conditions were like at the time. I don't know how much of a difference a week or two could make, maybe not much, maybe a lot. And it also might eliminate some areas that have to be searched on foot??? Not sure, I know there is also a lot in the area that is not captured digitally.

The pics are captivating. Really something. I did not try to make contact with owner of these pictures to see he came across anything unusual (hat, crampons, backpack, etc).

http://hikenhi.smugmug.com/Davids-Hiking-and/Mount-Ritter-July-2013
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
FYI the library has 24 internal computers and public access WiFi. As posted before, presumably Matt would have used their computer since he didn't have his own device. On July 16, a Tuesday, the library was open until 9pm.

http://www.monocolibraries.org/branches/mammoth-lakes

I agree that mining the individual library computers for browsing history is a dead end that's been discussed several times. If the library has a consolidated log of internet traffic or if the various websites make their logs available to family or MLPD, it could contain clues....but "boots on the ground" searches by back country expert volunteers shouldn't wait on that.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:09am PT
SplitPants, thanks for the update re the library -- sounds promising, knock on wood.

Kenish and MGuzzy, thanks for the info and explanation. It would be great if the router log contains useful info for us...

Cyduke, thanks for the link to the pictures and videos, and thanks for checking them over carefully. Even if there weren't any noticeable clues, the pictures give a good sense of the area and conditions. Some are so detailed, it's almost like being there.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Stzzo ---

Couple of odd things about summitpost...

The MattGreene profile page says "Last Active: Sep 11, 2013".
There's a user "MG13" who joined on Jul 16 and has posted only one post: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mg13/107266, http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/post929627.html#p929627
re:


I looked at post by MG13 (could be mountain goat or matt greene?)

Could this be helpful info for the search?

Re: Wind River Conditions? ~ Fremont Peak

Postby MG13 Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:40 pm

Just wondering how your Gannett attempt went and what the snow looked like through the Titcomb/Booney Pass/Gannett area.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 01:14am PT
Emailed Matt's poster to every place in my area I could think of including

Dear Wendy,
We shared it with our 10k+ members. We hope it helps.
Sincerely,
Escondido Downtown Business Association

Is there a similar group in Mammoth Lakes to send Matt's poster to?

Could someone send Matt's poster to horse riding groups who may have seen something or may in the near future?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:06am PT
Pacarockhound,

Thanks for asking. I think the mattgreene Summitpost account continues to be active because the Summitpost admin people keep poking around in it looking for clues. That's why the Summitpost Admin put a note on Matt's user page saying that his last real login was on July 16th.

Regarding the MG13 account, I bet it does stand for mountain goat, as you suggest, because that's what's in the picture. The MG13 account continues to be active and hence could not have been Matt (though I guess admin people could have been poking around in that account too). Also, Matt already had a Summitpost account -- why would he have created another one? In any event, because the post refers to areas in Wyoming, I suspect it's a coincidence and not relevant to the current search.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:09am PT
http://www.summitpost.org/southwest-couloir/859557"

Found this post about Wind river and Gannett peak etc. Looks beautiful but not very friendly.....

Has this area been searched?
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:12am PT
LA Hiker - it looks like there is Gannett Peak and Wind River at Mammoth, no? Or am I reading the link I posted wrong?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:13am PT
Pacarockhound,

I think we posted at the same time. It looks like there's a Mammoth Glacier on Gannett Peak, but Gannett Peak is part of the Wind River Range, which is in Wyoming. :(
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:20am PT
Joe Kelsey, in Climbing and Hiking in the Wind River Mountains (2nd ed., 1994, Chockstone Press, p. 124), mentions the "West Face/South Ridge" as follows: "From Mammoth Glacier several routes have been used to reach the South Ridge near its junction with Gooseneck Ridge. Apparently both prominent couloirs have been ascended. One climb was by 17-year-old Yvon Chouinard, on his first mountain."

This is from the bottom of link I have attached 3 posts earlier. Isn't Mammoth Glacier in Mammoth Lake?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:22am PT
Pacarockhound,

No, oddly enough. While there are many glaciers in the Ritter Range near Mammoth Lakes, the only U.S. glacier called "Mammoth Glacier" is in Wyoming, as are all the other places mentioned in MG13's post. Try Googling "Mammoth glacier" -- you'll see what I mean. :)

And now I must turn in for the evening.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:29am PT
Okay LA Hiker, I stand corrected.....:)
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 12, 2013 - 03:59am PT
Last thought for the night


On the summit.org forum if you go to Matt's profile there is a list of "people who hike the same trails". There are 100 people listed. Make any sense to reach out to them?
KellyDoesntClimb

Social climber
Dunwoody, GA
Sep 12, 2013 - 09:45am PT
CyDuke, thanks for the link to the photos! Stunning! It helps me in my quest to perfect the maps...
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