risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jun 23, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
QuoteGot that right. Cut from the same cloth. Buncha loudmouth idealists who never seem to cash the checks they write with their mouths. Here

Yup, idealist is the key word .
Hippy flower power will save the world - that is until someone gets ahold of a nuke and blows them up- then reality comes a knocking.

Reality has come a knocking here on the border.
We are seeing what true evil people are capable of with the cartels .
Folks really do not have any idea what it takes to keep them safe .
WBraun

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
Folks really do not have any idea what it takes to keep them safe.

Only stupid Americans create an unsafe situation in the first place and then make stupid laws and rules to fix the same unsafe situations they simultaneously continually keep going.

Then the stupid Americans preach to the whole world how they are trying to keep everyone safe.

All while building an unsafe world.

Americans are the stupidest people on the planet ......



Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
Edward Snowden seeks asylum in Ecuador amid diplomatic storm: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-escape-moscow-ecuador
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
"The fall-out from Snowden's leaks continued to stir the surveillance debate in the UK, with Shami Chakrabarti, the director of Liberty, insisting David Cameron or the foreign secretary, William Hague, should address MPs.

On Friday, the Guardian revealed GCHQ has put taps on some of the cables that carry internet traffic in and out of the UK, and has developed a storage system - codenamed Tempora - that can keep the information for up to 30 days.

The programme, which has not been disclosed before, allows GCHQ to keep a vast amount of emails and telephone calls for analysis.

Chakrabarti said: "The authorities appear to be kidding themselves with a very generous interpretation of the law that cannot stand with article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

"Revelations of blanket surveillance of the British public on such a scale amount to a huge scandal even by the standards of recent years. At the very least, the prime minister or foreign secretary should appear before the House of Commons immediately to explain how this was justified without clear legal authority or parliamentary debate.""
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 23, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jun 23, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
So Snowden is going to Ecuador.

via Cuba.

Wouldn't it be a dramatic thing, if Cuba placed him under arrest, and returned him to the US?

The possibility of a tremendous opening of the gate to Cuba, and the resultant ending of their isolation.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 23, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
Heck if thats the case we they can drone him from Miami! coool..
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Jun 23, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
A letter from a Phd. freind of mine below. It seems relevant to this conservation.

Hi Rick:

Yes, indeed, "hope for the best and prepare for the worst" is sage advise. Am i crazy because of my heart condition affecting not only my physical well being, but also my mind, my perception of reality, my sense of well being?Or does it seem to you that everything is falling apart from the center and core of existence? How can we be hopeful when our convictions and beliefs are constantly attacked by very evil forces;when government and corporate policies destroy us in real time, 24/7, 365 days each year? How can we prepare for that which we do not understand nor have control over? What can we do to preserve the essence of our convictions, beliefs, and values when the powers that govern our lives force us into isolation with an impending sense of helplessness, anger, joylessness, and despair?

Yes, indeed, DOOM does describe the times we are passing through. DOOM is fashionable and trendy. The perception of impending DOOM is real! My children express it. My casual acquaintances admit to uncontrollable fear, apprehension, and a generalized non-specified terror. My friends feel we are on the path of species specific annihlation. Doom is in the air. It is a dread that keeps a man in bed instead of embracing the opportunities and potential joy of the new day. It is the reason why two thirds of our countrymen are doped up on anti-depressants. It is why Hollywood is dosing us up on movies that deal with apocalyptic themes, end of the world fears, and, well zombies. Perhaps the zombie craze describes the 21st century man. He shuffles through modern times feeling this unspecified rage, ready to bite and kill those remaining souls left alive. They have no real appetite for nourishment or sustenance; just the essential raging urge to chew, chomp, munch, crunch, tear at, snap at, and in short, pass on the soul killing disease.

I agree that what causes this feeling in the general populace is difficult to understand. I think we need to discover who actually controls the levers of power; not the junk yard illusion and myth of democracy, but real power! Follow the money. Men who are not afraid to lose their lives cannot be forced to accept the unacceptable. The fearful masses may be programmed through the media to accept the daily erosion of their constitutional and legal rights in exchange for the incorrect perception of safety and well being. Perhaps modern serfdom is acceptable to these terrified hordes. Perhaps they confuse the perception of the common man's authentic welfare with the acquisition of material possesions and positive cash flow? Perhaps they fear for the day when their material shelter, retirement and savings, health care, and security are stripped away from them by their owners, those that control the real power. The government does everything it can to keep its citizens in a state of perpetual terror, as they mindlessly shuffle through the DHS requirements and rituals.

A zombie cannot communicate. It can only absorb stimuli and react with violent dependability. A zombie has attained genuine enlightenment in the information technology age,i.e., all "informative" material originates from the same source, from those that exercise true POWER.

George Bush Sr. did help to transform the USA into the USZ. He was the czar of the CIA and a good family freind of the Saudi royalty. He was the founding father of the New World Order.He was an inspirational Zionist at the same time. He knew how to exercise power. He set the path for Clinton, his son, and the current occupant of the White House. He was a genius. Bush Senior led us to the creation of international sustainable development of zombie culture. Yes, Brazil hosted the UNCED in '92 just as Pappy left office and infected the first victim with the Z plague and then gave us the means of sustainable implementation on a world wide scale. What an exemplary and shining example of the contemporary Power Broker! Look for Pelosi, Reed, and Kerry to get Agenda 21 into treaty form, and then look to Obama to figure out how to eliminate Amendment VI of our constitution, so that 21 becomes the law of the land in the USZ. The important point here is that there is no difference between the democrat and republican parties anymore. Global government is the ultimate goal (or is it ghoul) of these power brokers of A.D. 2013.

I still do my best to get prepared and retain hope; yet i fear it is about to get much much worse and that it will take at least be a 1000 years before all the Z's are forced out of existence. Western civilization as we have known it during our lives is about to get clobbered just as the Romans did 1500 years ago. I don't think science will find a vaccine in time. I hope that a handful of warrior monks can keep the fire lit for the next ten centuries of survival.

Who needs a thousand points of light anyway?

Mournfully yours, Dr. SCAR
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jun 23, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
WTF^^^^

Anyway .

I understand the rabbit hole some of you went down here .
Slippery slopes and vast conspiracies to listen to your every amazing and fascinating word... Lol

1984 - science fiction....,

They are watching

Well
They don't give a f*#k anymore than everyone else in the world - even if they did it would take a wprk force of 100's of millions to listen to all if your inane banter ... Seriously .., you're not that interesting .., hate to break it to you

For all your paranoid worries - you are already owned - the car you bought, the oil you used, the shampoo you buy and the multinational who paid off your politician and shipped your job to china .
Your environment that is polluted so your ass can feel successful and happy and you can f*#k in comfort and play human games instead of living in a hole in the ground or f*#king in a tree.

I see how you got there ... I could have went there too at some time in my life - perhaps if I had not read, travelled and been exposed to the world .


There is nothing here - contrary to what has amounted to fabrications and delusions by Snowdown, this is just a government trying to prevent a serious and inevitable terrorist attack by trying to preserve trillions of conversations so if something does pop up they might be able to go back and connect the dots before they blow up our pretty little lives again.
This isn't fear and it isn't doom.
It's just simple statistics and an awareness of the world.
Obviously behind the grasp of both Marin County hippies and the Cult News partisans




kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 23, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
...this is just a government trying to prevent a serious and inevitable terrorist attack by trying to preserve trillions of conversations so if something does pop up they might be able to go back and connect the dots before they blow up our pretty little lives again...

I don't agree at all, Riley. As I wrote to you previously, I think NSA data collection has been hijacked for profit by huge defense companies. William Binney, "Technical Leader for Intelligence" for the NSA , when he retired in 2001, was very upset. This is a guy who was with the NSA for 36 years and had the equivalent rank of a general.

He complained that relatively low cost, focused systems he'd developed, were being passed over for bemoths that gather everything. Binney says if the NSA can focus on 2 depths of separation they will find terrorists. Gathering every bit of data is way more than what is needed.

The excerpt below makes a very good point that all kinds of people can be blackmailed with the level of data being collected. I'm not saying that's necessarily happening, but why would any "democracy" set themselves up like that?

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2013/6/10/inside_the_nsas_domestic_surveillance_apparatus_whistleblower_william_binney_speaks_out



AMY GOODMAN: And talk about that for a moment, Bill, the former Qwest CEO Joe Nacchio, the only head of a communications company to—the only head of a company to demand a court order or approval under FISA.

WILLIAM BINNEY: Yes, and the consequence for him was they targeted him, and now he’s in prison. So, I mean, they succeeded in prosecuting him. But what it told me was that the intent from the beginning was to do domestic spying, accumulating information and knowledge about the U.S.—the entire U.S. population. So I thought of that as a J. Edgar Hoover on super steroids, you know? It wasn’t that he had information and knowledge to leverage just the Congress. You have information and knowledge to leverage everyone, judges included, in the country. So, that’s why I got so concerned. I tried to work internally in the government to get people to do something about it, but that whole process failed. So what it did was it alerted them to what I was doing, and they targeted me with the FBI, and they attempted to falsely prosecute me. Fortunately, I was able to get evidence of malicious prosecution every time, so they finally backed off trying to prosecute me.
jghedge

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
"'For all your paranoid worries - you are already owned - the car you bought, the oil you used, the shampoo you buy and the multinational who paid off your politician and shipped your job to china ."


Exactly. The corporations know more about you, and have more control over you, than the US gov't ever dreamed of.

So silly and naive to go maundering on and on about the feds - the only entities who care about you in any way shape or form are the ones you owe money to or buy stuff from, or might buy stuff. Period.
jghedge

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:16pm PT


"The excerpt below makes a very good point that all kinds of people can be blackmailed with the level of data being collected."


Of course they can. The gov't has pretty much always had that capability. Let us know when that actually starts happening
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
Let us know when that actually starts happening

Well, Joe, we are never gonna know. Unless someone like Snowden takes the risk and proves it to us.
WBraun

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Short sampling "This is only one of several lists."


NUMBER SCIENTISTS AGE CIRCUMSTANCE DATE

#1 Jose Trias Murdered May 19, 1994
#2 Dr. Tsunao Saitoh 46 Murdered May 7, 1996
#3-7 Microbiologists Plane crash October 4, 2001
#8 Jeffrey Paris Wall 41 Murdered? November 6, 2001
#9 Dr.Vladimir Pasechnik 64 Stroke November 21, 2001
#10-12 Dr.Yaakov Matzner, Amiramp Eldor, & Avishai Berkman 54, 59,50 Plane crash November 24, 2001
#13 Roman Kuzmin 24 Struck by a car December 2001
#14 Dr. Benito Que 52 Mugging December 6, 2001
#15 Dr. David Schwartz 57 Murdered December 10, 2001
#16 Set Van Nguyen 44 Found in airlock chamber December 14, 2001
#17 Don C. Wiley 57 Body found by river December 20,2001
#18 Ivan Glebov Bandit attack January 2002
#19 Alexi Brushlinski Killed/murdered? January 2002
#20 Victor Korshunov 56 Murdered February 9, 2002
#21 Dr. Ian Langford 40 Murdered February 11, 2002
#22-23 Tanya Holzmayer & Guyang “Mathew” Huang 46, 38 Murder then suicide February 28, 2002
#24 David Wynn-Williams 55 Struck by vehicle March 24, 2002
#25 Dr. Steven Mostow 63 Plane crash March 25, 2002
#26 Dr. Leland Rickman 47 Unknown June 24, 2003
#27 Dr. David Kelly 59 Suicide?/ Murder July 18, 2003
#28 Michael Perich 46 Car wreck October 11, 2003
#29 Robert Leslie Burghoff 45 Hit and run November 20, 2003
#30 Dr Robert E. Shope 74 Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis January 19, 2004
#31 Michael Patrick Kiley 62 Heart failure January 24, 2004
#32 Vadake Srinivasan 78 Stroke/Car wreck March 13, 2004
#33 William T. McGuire 39 Murdered May 5, 2004
#34 Dr. Eugene F. Mallove 56 Murdered May 16, 2004
#35 Antonina Presnyakova 46 Accidental/Ebola May 19, 2004
#36 Thomas gold 84 Heart disease June 23, 2004
#37 Dr. Assefa Tulu 45 Hemorrhagic stroke June 24, 2004
#38 Dr. John Mullen 67 Acute arsenic intoxication June 29, 2004
#39 Dr Paul Norman 52 Plane crash July 2, 2004
#40 Dr. John Badwey 54 Pneumonia like symptoms July 21, 2004
#41 Dr Bassem al-Mudare Murdered July 21, 2004
#42 Professor John Clark 52 Hanging August 12, 2004
#43 Mohammed Toki Hussein al-Talakani 40 Murdered September 5, 2004
#44 Matthew Allison 32 Car exploded October 13, 2004
#45 John R. La Montagne, Ph.D 61 Sudden pulmonary embolism November 2, 2004
#46 Taleb Ibrahim al-Daher Murdered December 21, 2004
#47-48 Tom Throne & Beth Williams 63, 53 Car wreck December 29, 2004
#49 Jeong H. Im 72 Murdered January 7, 2005
#50 Geetha Angara 43 Murdered/Drowned February 8, 2005
Bharata

Mountain climber
Pune
Jun 23, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
jghedge -your cultivated perfect tone matches the nazi ss guard telling prisoners loaded onto the death trains to stop complaining and that they
must be grateful for the train is running on schedule to the concentration camp.

Notice picture of the giant parking lot around NSA full of thousands of cars. Easy guess what all those workers listen to all day.



jghedge

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:08pm PT

"Well, Joe, we are never gonna know. Unless someone like Snowden takes the risk and proves it to us."


We're never going to know if the gov't starts blackmailing people based on NSA surveillance?

Why not?



jghedge

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:12pm PT


"Notice picture of the giant parking lot around NSA full of thousands of cars. Easy guess what all those workers listen to all day."


Which is being supplied to them by the telco's and ISP's that you, for whatever irrational, naive reason, trust to keep secret from them.

Why? What is it about corporations that instills more trust than gov't does?


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Land of the slave home of the pussy.

A man puts his life in jeopardy. Risks decades of political imprisonment in order to inform the citizens of his nation about what is being done by it's government.

Yet so many brainwashed idiots are concerned that he broke an unjust law?

America has gotten what it deserves.

I am truly conservative in that I believe that generally people get what they deserve. Not always but generally true.

jghedge

climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
'Yet so many brainwashed idiots are concerned that he broke an unjust law?"


And what law would that be?

And why wouldn't the telco's whom you're providing the information to, be guilty of the same crime you're apparently accusing the administration of?

And why, if you think a crime is being committed, are you providing that info to them in the first place?


As was stated on the Sunday talking heads shows this morning (by repub congressmen whom I rarely, if ever, agree with), none of this passes the logic test.







rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jun 23, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
its just further proof that there is NO voice for opposition to conservative tyranny

hedges and norton have NOTHING at all to hope for except that their wall street candidates remains one foot above the christian fascists wall street candidate.

not a SINGLE VOICE representing a progressive critique of obama's administration is allowed a seconds air on ANY of the supposed "liberal media" networks

nope

all progressives are allowed is to vote for the capitalist pig f*#kers whos simple willing to use language which rich fat white blood suckers dont like

thats all

they agree to cave left and right if their allowed to speak at the mike and thats the only reason theyre allowed to speak there




now,
just because theyre sell out and scum DOESNT mean you tear them down in the direction of worse abuse, which is all that anyone center to right is calling for

so in response to all those/the voices critizing they serve the bare purpose of insisting that " at least we demand our demands will be given lip service!"


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