risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Messages 581 - 600 of total 1874 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
abrams

Sport climber
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
Correct. There could well be deception piled on deception going on.

Snowden's laptops and flash sticks could well be JUST BAIT and loaded with variants of the STUXNET virus hoping to get uploaded into the moscow secure backbone.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
we look like a bunch of incompetents.

You're in on the search???!!!

DMT
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Jun 25, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
My big beef? Who puts up a post where I have to scroll to the right to see other people's posts?

As inconsiderate as a whistleblower.


Wahhhhh


Somebody call me a whaambulance
WBraun

climber
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:02pm PT
Snowden flies to Ecuador and the US will launch surface to air missile and blow up his plane and blame it on Muslims?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
June 25, 2013

Self-Pacification of the American Citizenry
Edward J. Snowden and the Exposure of Voyeuristic Fascism
by NORMAN POLLACK

in the last two weeks—a sliver of time as wars and the violation of civil liberties go—America has suddenly lost face, stature, and the moral high ground it has always claimed, and stands exposed, more than in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, to the world’s and its own people’s understanding as the invader of human dignity and privacy, priceless attributes distinguishing democracy from totalitarianism.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/06/25/edward-j-snowden-and-the-exposure-of-voyeuristic-fascism/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=edward-j-snowden-and-the-exposure-of-voyeuristic-fascism

Snowden enters the picture, surprisingly aware of all that is at stake, as witness his eloquent statements about how the denial of civil liberties negates and repudiates a democratic society, and from there, recognizes the magnitude of crime associated with surveillance. An individual, alone, powerless at the outset, has spoken out, and doing so, has shaken the foundations of power. This, more than a high point in the record of whistle-blowers, though intimately related to it, marks an epochal moment in the history of American freedom—or the search for it! It mustn’t be allowed to slip by as a result of the chorus of denunciation, from POTUS on down through all the usual suspects, Democrats and Republicans alike. Snowden has raised privacy into the pantheon of constitutional rights it deserves to be, as the index of societal health and individual personhood—something all the nefarious interventions, drone strikes, CIA-JSOC missions of subversion, indefinite detentions, have sought to obliterate from the popular consciousness, and until now, partially succeeded in doing.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
SURVEILLANCE is not accidental strategy, but rather the cutting edge of individuals’ self-pacification, a well-tested mechanism of social control. One hesitates to speak, then even to think; one chooses one’s associates warily, lest found on someone’s list, the all-pervasive fear of being watched, dissected, analyzed by the prying eyes of the State, now a government-empowered and –legitimated National Security Agency (and multiple other intelligence agencies, along with such legislative onslaughts as TALON, CIFA, TIAP, and don’t forget MATRIX, Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange, some of which going even too far for Congress’s reactionary taste), fully capable of spying on and retrieving the most intimate conversations between people hitherto unsuspecting of eavesdropping. Hopefully, suspiciousness of government will ensue, even though practices of this nature continue, because, as political theory teaches us, democratic society and government are founded on trust, without which, there can be no social compact
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
If he is so f*#king high and mighty about free society what is he doing in russia?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
Snowden put his finger in the dike holding back the sea of totalitarianism, itself not an inaccurate designation any longer, i.e., if one believes that civil liberties is the linchpin of its polar opposite, a social democracy based on the respect for and equal treatment of the individual under the rule of law, because what the US government has done is destroy the American constitutional-social fabric, in the process making a mockery of the law through trampling on traditional safeguards to freedom of thought and rights of association, protection from unwarranted searches and seizures, and down a slippery slope to everything from use of informers, planted evidence, “dirty tricks,” to encouragement of mutual suspicion, the breakup of radical organizations, whatever government deems central to its interests, safety, and continued lawlessness.
J man

Trad climber
morgan hill
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Ho ho! Breaking the cycle of violence? That's going to happen very soon.
Just be patient.


Amidst the never ending wars (from the beginning of the Republic up to the
Principate, the doors of the temple of Janus were closed only twice - when
they were open it meant that Rome was at war), Rome had to face a severe
major social crisis, the Conflict of the Orders, a political struggle
between the Plebeians (commoners) and Patricians (aristocrats)..

war
and more war
followed by still more war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Rome#Legend_of_Rome

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Snowden turned the spotlight on the forbidden territory of the dark world inhabited by the Obama administration, a reaching out of tentacles not only in America but on a world basis, as his revelations of PRIMUS and foreign communications intercepts, including wiretaps of diplomats and conferences shows. The details are familiar by now, from the Guardian, Washington Post, New York Times, to the Continental press and worldwide—a story that will not go away, given the enormity of the offense and the hypocrisy of Washington. For this reason, I believe Snowden is a marked man in Obama’s eyes, to him to be practically equated with Osama bin Laden, and therefore, being in Obama’s cross-hairs, if not through rendition (“accidents will happen”) then a direct target of paramilitary operations, Snowden is right to fear for his life and to seek asylum.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Snowden cannot be allowed to go free, not because he divulged State Secrets, but because he symbolizes the power—may I say, sublimeness?—of truth, particularly against what he exposed as a pack of political criminals, and beyond that, exposed, through their workings, the inner springs of repression on which American society and its structure of power depend, namely, self-pacification as an overriding state of moral-political inaction of body and mind, a rejection of social protest in thought and deed, the individual subject to cues provided by acute patriotism, consumerism, and the heavy-handed militarization of Authority. That, we could see, and for some, speak out against.

But this added factor, brought out by Snowden, of surveillance, gives self-pacification silent and powerful reinforcement: the fear of terrorism, itself contrived by government to justify security arrangements bordering on informal regimentation, has become transformed/extended into what psychologists would term—if only they examined consequential societal issues—the “introjection” of the entire power system in America, including its capitalist and military foundations, and the people’s own expected docility to its furtherance, goals, and ideology.

That is a big burden to carry around, even if unnoticed (the test of repression’s value and success to an authoritarian government), which leaves the individual naked and vulnerable to the extreme politicization of mindset designed to eschew critical thinking, and rather, glorify the State.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Americans are so s ........

stupid?

Curt
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
"Glenn Greenwald, a columnist for The Guardian, has said Mr. Snowden gave him thousands of documents, only a tiny fraction of which were published. Many may be of limited public interest, but they could be of great value to a foreign intelligence service, which could get a more complete idea of the security agency’s technical abilities and how to evade its net, officials said."

Uninformed supposition.

SIGINT (COMINT, ELINT, etcINT) has been going on since at least ancient Greece. The Russians and Chinese are under no illusions or doubts about the NSA, CIA, and DIA's capabilities, scope or coverage. And the likelihood they have any questions about "how to evade its net" is also about nil. Ok, sure, there are some governments like the Seychelles, Mauritania, and Cook Islands who might learn something they didn't know, but it's more a basic 'get a grip' sort of deal.

I mean, hey, governments and the intelligence community no longer have a lock on any of this stuff. It's all out there, available and even the computing and network hardware is all subject to all manner of creative attacks, hacking, and modding. None of it is a "secret" anymore. If anything, governments and their agencies are way behind the curve right now - even the NSA. This stuff is going on 24x7x365 all around the world by everyone from bored middle-schoolers to the NSA and KGB.
WBraun

climber
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
If he is so f*#king high and mighty about free society what is he doing in russia?


He is not IN Russia itself.

He's in the international transition area where one has not yet actually entered the country yet.

Do you people even read ??????
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Domestic spying of the breadth and scope practiced by the NSA (which along with the CIA has become Obama’s Janus-faced look toward both internal and external acts of structural-political subversion) becomes the handmaid of counterterrorism, the latter, now self-legitimated through government edict thus spreading a cloak of legitimacy as well around the former. Surveillance is good! We hear ad nauseum that there must be a balance struck between security and privacy, with the former invariably taking precedence—a convenient debater’s trick because the former can be infinitely enlarged, and the latter, a straw man, toothless to boot. America’s fear of terrorism, itself a form of terrorism practiced on the people, paves the way for domestic spying on the part of Authority with impunity.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Wbraun, just say it. Stupi.....
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
Militarism and surveillance are kissing cousins, each depends on the acceptance of prescribed ORDER. That order, a supreme ideological value of an hierarchical class structure such as we have now more than ever, with wide disparities of wealth and power, has in different, though largely nonpolitical, ways been challenged for some time, yet still awaiting focus—which Brazilian ferment, still a straw in the wind, may (along with Greece and Turkey) inspire. In any event, conformity is wearing thin, given multiple sources of discontent in American culture and society, building from civil rights, protest over Vietnam, and the rebelliousness of the counterculture, to what could be but has not yet been fashioned into a recognizable adversarial force for structural-economic-social change through the brute facts and experience of unemployment, mortgage foreclosure, rape of the environment, and the endless march to war, intervention, military stockpiling, and the abridgement of working-class rights and civil liberties. There is a crack in the façade of order, as understood by ruling groups, which, despite earlier abilities to control (and even sublimate into the time-honored paths of consumerism), can no longer be tolerated, particularly because they themselves perceive America’s changing position, its relative decline, in a now-multipolar world system beyond their powers of unilateral hegemony—therefore making the demand for conformity all the more urgent and satisfying.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
Snowden blows to smithereens the pious claims of American Exceptionalism, a city on the hill made up of political demagogues, snoopers, voyeurs, mercenaries, and the scavengers in our midst, supercomputers to the ready, armed with preconceived notions of enemies lurking in the dark, a wholesale assemblage of vile operatives who are cloaked in the Flag, seemingly unassailable—until one person came along to reveal the public garbage masking itself as national security. This writer wishes him God’s speed to safety, long life, good health. The nation, whether it knows it or not, is indebted to Snowden’s bravery and moral conscience.

Norman Pollack is the author of “The Populist Response to Industrial America” (Harvard) and “The Just Polity” (Illinois), Guggenheim Fellow, and professor of history emeritus, Michigan State University. His new book, Eichmann on the Potomac, will be published by CounterPunch/AK Press in the fall of 2013.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
Snowden blows to smithereens the pious claims of American Exceptionalism

Snowden? You've got to be kidding me. Man, if it's taken Snowden to wake anyone up to the pious claims of American Exceptionalism then you've been dead asleep at the wheel for a decade at least and somehow missed manufactured intelligence, preemptive war, constitutional violations, treaty violations, rendition, and torture. Hell, BushCo flushed everything that was 'exceptional' about America down the toilet in pursuit of neocon glory in the wake of 9/11.

America’s fear of terrorism, itself a form of terrorism

And fear is the principle currency of conservatives and the republican party. The unfortunate aspect of the success of their fear-based campaign strategy is that while in power they created such a mess of global scope such that we, as a nation, now do have enemies to fear and doing nothing is no longer an option.

Because we can't have it both ways.

So, the question isn't that black and white, but rather one of unpleasant grays - how do we protect ourselves in a world where technology-driven asymmetric warfare capable of mass casualties is now within reach of non-state actors?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
Does our nation operate as an empire or as a democratic nation of free people? Because we can't have it both ways. To live with freedom is to live in fear and insecurity, sorta like being in love, I guess. :-)

Empire is what our nation has become. Institutional torture, now massive multi-administrational internal spying programs... what's next in the degradation of freedom? Secret courts? Oh right, already have those too.

DMT

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