risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Messages 581 - 600 of total 1811 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
...we are not safe despite the Patriot Act being in effect and reducing our civil liberties, and we are not safe despite the gross violation of our civil liberties by the government and the NSA spying on us by collecting (for at least seven years) every single electronic communication of every US citizen and storing it in perpetuity.

You are merely surrendering your liberties for nothing.

Oh really?

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-18/world/40043402_1_plots-alexander-national-security-agency

Curt
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Really.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
What Snowden did was highly illegal.

But what the NSA is doing is highly unconstitutional.

WBraun

climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
What Snowden did was highly illegal.


Sometimes it's the right thing to do.

Man made laws are relative.

The laws of the Universe are not under the jurisdiction of stupid political monkey men playing God ......
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
That simply doesn't apply

One opinion.


We've already had unconstitutional activities from the NSA's data collection:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy



Keep your eyes open and you'll see more of the same:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/48195/aclu-nsa-lawsuit-prism-violates-the-first-and-fourth-amendments-of-the-constitution

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
If you showed yourself to have allegiances other than the tribe, you were shown the door so to speak.. It was ok to be a member and bitch to the Chief. But if you took those bitches to a neighboring tribe, you got strung out on the ground, cut constantly with knives while ants ate you alive.

So you're saying no matter what, you're in the, whatever you want to call it, the 'we can't do anything about it' group, end of story? Why do you pretend to ask questions, if this is the case? Your mind is made up?

And yes, your friends over there WILL stake you out to be eaten by ants, if you show allegiance to the 'other side.' Enjoy your company.

DMT
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Really.

Well, it would appear that some suspension of reality is required to hold that opinion. Additionally, there is absolutely no proof in either of the links you provide above that the NSA activity is unconstitutional.

Curt
crøtch

climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:30pm PT
jghedge & Curt - How do you interpret US v. Warshak to apply to this situation?
crøtch

climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
"The content of your emails, and the content of your phone conversations, are subject to the 4th amendment, as per the SC"

And do you think that the NSA may be engaged in reading - and when I say reading, I mean using computers to analyze - the contents of emails without warrants?

The other option is that they are merely archiving them for future use which seems highly improbable to me because it's not what "big data" is about. And the NSA and CIA are clearly interested in big data.

I understand that this is supposition, but due to the classified nature of the topic, that is what we are left with.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
A wanted man without a passport, Snowden could join ranks of unwitting airport denizens

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/26/wanted-man-without-passport-snowden-could-join-ranks-unwitting-airport-denizens/#ixzz2XLoHeFUt


Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
Curt; Well, it would appear that some suspension of reality is required to hold that opinion.


On the contrary, I'd suggest that the opposite is true: some suspension of reality is required to believe that because all US citizens are being spied on that as consequence you are now safe.


Nevertheless, it's not for me to make claims regarding your state of mind.
Sweet dreams for Curt courtesy of the NSA*.


Let's talk the next time reality wakes you up and shatters your illusion of safety.




*Isn't this how tyranny is being sold to the public? There's nothing reasonable in the government's position, it's an appeal to the unconscious, to our emotions and fears.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
so lets say the NSA programs have saved american lives. what was the cost per life saved?

compare that to all teh other stuff that kills people that we could be spending money on and you can get a cost per benefit and then debate intelligently rather than emotionally about cost of security versus lets say, cost of health care or even food and cost of pollution prevention.

instead the government has decided for you. don't you feel better now? i dont.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
On the contrary, I'd suggest that the opposite is true: some suspension of reality is required to believe that because all US citizens are being spied on that as consequence you are now safe.

My suspension of reality comment was in reply to this statement you made:

You are merely surrendering your liberties for nothing.

Clearly, with 50 terror plots averted, your "for nothing" statement does require a suspension of reality.

Curt

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
http://dietagespresse.com/snowden-in-wien-gelandet-vertraut-in-tragheit-der-justiz/

"I don't have the time to translate this article from Die Tagespresse, an Viennese newspaper, but they are reporting that Snowden arrived on the first Austrian Airlines flight from Moscow this morning, and has asked for political asylum. No one else is reporting this -- yet. The headline reads: Snowden has landed in Vienna: trusts the "sluggishness" of (Austrian) justice." Quotes from Austrian immigration officers, etc."
crøtch

climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
Telcos/ISPs do not have the ability to detain you, arrest you, tax you, deport you, execute you. Telcos do not regulate commerce, your license to practice your trade, the safety of your food etc. There are reasons to have different standards. Further, I freely enter into a contractual agreement with my provider. They have a privacy policy, and if they are in violation of that privacy policy I can seek justice through the courts.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Sometimes I can't believe I'm saying this, but listen to Hedge, Curt and Norton. You may disagree with their interpretation, but the SCOTUS has consistently adopted it.

The Fourth Amendment protects areas where we have a reasonable expectation of privacy. The courts have consistently held that business records, such as how many phone calls a person makes and to whom, are business records with no reasonable expectation of privacy.

Traffic analysis existed before WWII. The sorts of data we know (as opposed to speculate)that NSA collected is similar to that obtained in a police stake-out, noting who enters and leaves where and when. That sort of thing has never been held to constitute a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment.

While recent revelations cause some of us to mistrust governmental use of information, the NSA data collection that's been "exposed" by Snowden is neither illegal nor unconstitutional. Frankly, I would have been disappointed in the NSA had it been been pursuing these generally-accepted law enforcement and intelligence opportunities.

John
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
The NSA surveillance also violates the first amendment to the US constitution as well as provisions of the Patriot Act.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
I saw Edward Snowden down at the 7-11 buying a Slushie and a couple of Little Debbie Zebra Cakes. Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, and Gwyneth Paltrow were waiting in the pickup giggling like a bunch of teenagers. Fukkin epic.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Jun 26, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
Curt: Clearly, with 50 terror plots averted, your "for nothing" statement does require a suspension of reality.

Curt

Can you explain how the surveillance of all US citizens communications was a necessity for averting '50' terrorists plots?

Or are we just expected to believe what government tells us?
Or the veracity of what congress is even informed about (such as has recently been challenged).


TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 26, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
snowden needs a 308 round through his noggin

Ron Anderson, if you are really wise enough to know that this is a viable solution to the world's social political problems, then perhaps I should sign up to help you prove the concept.

However Snowden is probably not going to wander within range of your rifle.

But I can drive over there to your place this afternoon, and we can go out to the range together.

I'll take a walk downrange, and you can try out your proposed solution on my head instead.

If the experiment pans out well, then that's just wonderful and generates new hope for the world.

Then you can make a press release statement to the National Press Club on having verified a simple solution to the world's social political problems.

You'll become as famous as Gandhi or Mandela or the Dalai Lama or even Buddha!
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