OT: US govt seizing phone records from Associated Press

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 109 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 09:03pm PT

"So it's okay if Dems do it now? It's just a matter of party-affiliation?"

"Do you have equal dissent against these actions? Or is Obama exempt?"


Hey Bluey - the liberal media is, in fact, outraged over the AP and IRS stories

What we're complaining about is how the conservative media never covered it when Bush did it.


Understand?
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
"What did you call for with Bush/Cheney?"


Nothing.

Dems had both the Senate and the House for Bush's last 2 years, and could EASILY have launched hearings on the Iraq casus belli - except, of course, the economy coming within hours of worldwide collapse would have been a tad distracting

We did get Scooter, though, who had to be pardoned by Bush to keep his ass out of jail - remember?

10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
May 14, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
"When's the last time you went climbing?

I'm going climbing tomorrow :-)
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 14, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
"When's the last time you went climbing?"

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

DMT


I don't know how that's relevant, but 2 weeks ago. Fishing last weekend with the boy.

Funny how you gauge people. Very judgemental.
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
I think making this a partisan issue is a distraction. Who cares Obama Bush etc... the point here is something that is bigger than the ideology of democrats or republicans.

This is at the fundamental heart of the principles of democracy, the ideas behind creating an institution with safeguards to limit the power that the "haves" can accumulate at the expense of the "have-nots."

It's easy to act all glib and cool/jaded about expecting these things, saying how we're all doomed or we're so naive or we don't know what's coming still (the political version of "yer gonna die"). That's about as useful to our society as being completely ignorant. It's a willful surrender and its cowardly if you think what's happening is wrong. My point in making this first post was to spread awareness, to create a shift in perception and increase the general feeling of the populace in the direction of "we're not gonna take it."

I'm a coward too, in that I'm not doing everything I can possibly do fight this threat to our society. I pick and choose my battles, and sometimes I don't give it everything I've got. In the end, we deserve the government we help to make.
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
This is what I like to hear:
Lawmakers from both parties on Tuesday criticized the Justice Department's decision to obtain the AP records. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called the action "inexcusable."

Update:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/14/us-usa-justice-ap-idUSBRE94C0ZW20130514
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 09:47pm PT

"My point in making this first post was to spread awareness, to create a shift in perception and increase the general feeling of the populace in the direction of "we're not gonna take it.""

Except that no records were "seized", as your thread title states. They were subpoenaed and turned over. I'm not even sure what "seized" would entail, but it certainly paints a darker picture than what actually happened. The thread title is misleading.

And if we really are at "war" with terrorism, as the Bush admin repeated ad nauseum, then restrictions on the press are part and parcel of the "war effort". Some information is simply not going to be, nor should be, disseminated publicly.

I didn't support the Iraq war, nor the spending that went with it - but if you think that as part of that dissent, I supported disclosure of intel that would kill American troops/civilians...no.
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
"seized" might imply heavy boots marching in and taking by physical force.

A subpoena from a government agency carries that implied threat if you do not comply. It's like your boss "asking" you to do something, multiplied by a million. Not much of a distinction from my perspective.

It's just a way of smiling while you step on someone's neck, and claiming that you are being civil.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 14, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
Dems had both the Senate and the House for Bush's last 2 years, and could EASILY have launched hearings on the Iraq casus belli - except, of course,
most of them voted for it.

fixed it for ya.
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
In the end, when there is more transparency around the circumstances of this incident, it may all turn out to be reasonable and justified. But it deserves public outrage and attention it is getting from the public and our elected representatives, to make sure that the checks and balances against government power are in place.
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
"It's like your boss "asking" you to do something, multiplied by a million. Not much of a distinction from my perspective."

No.

The AP probably has lawyers - ya think? It's not like "your boss "asking" you to do something". You're not going to "lawyer up" if your boss asks you to do something.

Nothing was "seized".
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
May 14, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
John Yoo, torture enabler John Yoo now cares about constitutional rights? That's a laugh.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 14, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
Funny how you gauge people. Very judgemental.

You spelled judgmental wrong.

DMT
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:37pm PT

"John Yoo, torture enabler John Yoo now cares about constitutional rights? That's a laugh."


You have to apply Scalia's rationale.

"Torture isn't cruel and unusual punishment. We're not punishing them - we're torturing them."

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2008/04/28/22390/scalia-60-minutes/

See? All better now.
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 10:38pm PT
jghedge - good point about access to lawyers to ensure that laws are followed to limit the extent of what is seized. But I suspect the devil is in the details, and not much a lawyer can do when "national security" and "classified evidence" is invoked as a reason to obtain something that would otherwise not be permitted.

Dingus - you gonna make that judge go mental!
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:39pm PT

"You spelled judgmental wrong."

Quit being judgmental
MisterE

Social climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:40pm PT
Great: The Government of Misinformation stealing "information" from the Purveyors of Misinformation.

Real tragedy there.
jghedge

climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:42pm PT

"But I suspect the devil is in the details, and not much a lawyer can do when "national security" and "classified evidence" is invoked as a reason to obtain something that would otherwise not be permitted."

I would suspect the the AP has sufficient legal firepower to prove otherwise, and contest anything thrown their way, if they felt the need.

Apparently they didn't feel the need, and handed over the records. I seriously doubt they were intimidated into doing so, as you suggest.
WBraun

climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
The Government of Misinformation stealing "information" from the Purveyors of Misinformation.

LOL This is definitely the best line in the whole affair .......
nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
I might have to get off my high horse long enough to admit that was a pretty funny line.
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