Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
Thanks for posting your story Melissa. That's one big route for a first long climb! Damn. Well done. Did you guys take more pictures? Maybe a full TR? Would kick ass to hear full story and what went on in your head before getting on such a route...
Would be interesting to hear about some of the untold epics on this one. I seem to run into people epicing (even on much smaller climbs) all the time. There must be some interesting stories about descending cat walk...
|
|
Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
sawatch choss
|
|
Nice Melissa! That guy is a keeper, be nice to him.
I think that, if you've never been up there before and aren't super fast,
climbing the North Buttress first to get familiar with the descent is not such a bad idea.
|
|
wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
|
|
There's supertopo ratings and Reid ratings. Supertop ratings are trying for the gym climber transfering to trad. The climb has one Reid 10b move. (the mantle) and some run 5.9. The bad thing about supertopo ratings is that they confuse people. The good thing about supertopo ratings is, it keeps the crowds away from an already uncrowded climb. The climb is Reid 10b and not any harder then any other Reid 10b but easier then Glacier Point Apron 10b.
Warbler. If DNB is 11. then Quicksilver ain't no 9.
Edit: I also heard bolt was moved lower so one can clip while palming mantle. When I did it you had to stand on stance to clip crappy quarter incher. Clint may know more.
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
What did Reed rate Catchy? Reed's Direct? New Dimensions? Five and Dime?
I was afraid of Waverly Wafer (11a for OW?!) after TRing Generator Crack (which I can't do clean on TR and struggle to top out with multiple hangs). Cruised that Waverly OW on lead. Slipped on a lie back though after getting to the rest knob (!) and didn't get the onsight..My rating for OW part on Waverly would be 10b, don't think it is any harder than Meat Grinder, and is much shorter. Secure, and protects great. You can even rest in there. Lie back above? I dunno, I suck at lie backs. ST calls it '10d lie back', I am sure Reed would call it 5.9 or some sh#t.
PS: If Generator crack was in Indian creek would fair rating be 5.12a?
|
|
Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
|
|
I've been lurking on this thread since this morning wondering what all the fuss is about? The DNB is 5.10c at best. There is no way it is 5.11. Frank Sacherer is rolling in his grave right now. It's just that mantle move down low that's tricky & the rest is pretty straightforward. I've seen a fair amount of rockfall come down those upper chimneys even when there was nobody up there launching anything.
For my moneys worth, the DNB is just OK. I have not done the Ho Chi Min Trail but it looks better than the upper grovel pitches on DNB.
If some of you folks think DNB was runout and / or scary and 5.11, stay away from routes like Freestone which has genuinely hard climbing and that is tough to get protection where you want it on it's lower face climbing pitches. Most of the longer routes on Fairview dome would be too much for those who call the DNB 5.11.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Yup the freestone crux is Way, harder!!
Vitally, I think generator would be 5.10 here, Same as the valley.
Waverly wafer is definitely, easier! I think learning to crack climb I Vedauwoo worked to my advantage. I soloed generator a bunch though, and don't think I would ever solo WW.
Um, Will. I don't think Mike F or I, said "don't bother"....
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
Forget individual ratings Vitaliy......just keep climbing and doing tr's. When you get more into Alpinisim more you'll understand.....people ask me to rate the N.Ridge of Latok 1, impossible to do but a number of 5.13/14 climbers have failed quite a bit short of our highpoint. There probably isn't a move over 5.10 on the climb. The rating of the hardest technical move is certainly not the issue.
Ratings can be so individual .....BITD i regularly soloed Generator Crack but always thought Waverly Wafer was greasy and hard.
|
|
cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
|
|
I climbed the DNB with BigWallPaul shortly after the couple (from CO, I think) died there. I was a bit spooked, so I brought a hammer and a few pins in case some of the old fixed pins were bad/missing. I also wanted to figure out which belay up high was the belay that failed.
I got to one belay way up there that appeared to be bomber with a medium nut, green alien, and yellow alien (or something like that.. it's been 10 years or so and my memory fades at rate of 10% per year). So I put the gear in and then bounce test the anchor... to see the cracks expand. The crack was expando, but did not look like your typical expando crack. You would know only if you bounced it or gave a sharp jerk on the placement and felt the muted report returned by the piece.
The climbing above the belay was steep and without good pro for the first 10 feet (unless you had a big cam). I can see how a slip here could have brought a factor 2 upon the expando belay.
So I smacked a pin (or 2?) in the crack and watched that baby open up as it went in. I'm not sure if that pin(s) are still there after all these years, but folks should beware of that particular belay. I warned BigWallPaul to not fall onto the belay because of the expando problem.
By the way, I didn't tell BWP that I knew about the recent deaths on the route because I didn't want him to chicken out on me. I did tell him when we got to the top, though.
Then he tells me that he knew about the deaths as well, but didn't tell me because he was afraid I would chicken out!
|
|
Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
|
|
Did something break off?
No. The mantle is the same as it always has been.
It's still 5.10b in the Reid guide, which I believe is a fair rating.
If you try to face climb it without manteling, that is 5.11.
(Here my partner is trying to face climb onto it - her right foot is on the mantle hold).
It's not even a very hard mantle. The hold is huge, it's not very steep,
and there is a big place to put your foot on the hold. You then just have to step up onto your foot without any finger holds above, except maybe a tiny undercling. No big deal, the protection bolt is staring you in the face.
The protection bolt was replaced, at the same level.
A Petzl Longlife bolt was added (in the early 90s) just 3' higher, that you could grab to aid through the move.
I don't approve of that bolt, but it's not easy to chop except with a dremel tool or something.
I've never clipped it.
I don't remember if anyone has died on the Katwalk. My partner and I almost died one time when a huge boulder came rolling down the Cathedral Chimney (lower part of the "Katwalk" descent).
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
Vitally, I think generator would be 5.10 here, Same as the valley.
Waverly wafer is definitely, easier!
HAHAHA Than there is no way in hell Big Guy is a 5.11. Must be a 5.9-.
Since I took Waverly apart piece by piece, I believe Enduro Corner on Astroman would not be 11c if you take it apart like that (for some it would be perfect hands, to a lie back that isn't that long, and not much harder but longer than 5.7 lie back on North Buttress of Middle haha). So maybe Waverly is 11a because you have to apply so many techniques on a sustained pitch? I dunno. Even though I 100% agree with Donini - "try to stay away from thinking too much about ratings," it would be nice to have some consistent ratings, especially when it comes to run out climbing that DNB supposedly has (supertopo suggests several run outs on 10a terrain).
|
|
Alexey
climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
ST never rated Waverley Wafer pod as 11- ow. They upgrade rating to 5.11- from 10c (Reid) for layback after the pod. And for onsite Waverley Wafer is harder than many Yosemite's 10c and 10d .
This route felt as 10c when you wired it
|
|
chappy
Social climber
ventura
|
|
Alexey,
No matter what the reasoning behind the ST rating calling the Wafer 5.11 is a joke. The lieback is 5.11? The lieback is piss easy compared to Catchy Corner or the Goodbook lieback. It's so short. There are so many stems and rests on the Wafer. I never heard one peep about it being 5.11 BITD and that was without cams. Onsighting has nothing to do with it. Think about the pitch: It starts out with basically bomber hands (one wide move at the beginning but with a bomber inside edge)and stems and faceholds galore. You can climb it on your feet. Then that final slightly tight hand crack to the alcove where you can sit all day and rest. You get a large hex in the bottom of the flare that would hold a truck. The flare is left side in and only a couple of moves before you get hand jams in the back. A few more moves and they become finger locks and you pull out of the flare into a no hands stem/rest at the bottom of the lie back. You arrange your pro. The lie back starts out on good locks with footholds. You make a few moves and stand on a knob. Put your last piece in and continue to the top as it gets easier and easier. You can milk your toes in the crack and start getting jams pretty quick. This part was wet when I first did it and it still didn't seem like 5.11. Plus I had to finagle a 7 stopper in the crack instead of plugging in a cam. I have seen people try and climb the flare right side in...this probably would be 5.11. Anyway I just don't get the ratings change on this or the DNB. I stick by my original assertion that ratings have been changed on certain routes more as a reflection of many modern climbers lack of well rounded climbing skills rather than any real change in difficulty.
Chappy
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
Yeah, sure, whatever... I "bailed" as in I climbed through the crux (which I admit I found difficult and had to climb up and down a couple times before I figured it out), was never really that into it anyway, and certainly didn't have enough motivation to convince my partner to keep going for umpteen more pitches of groveling through choss on our knees. From the sounds of things, I didn't miss out on much. Same trip I OS'd Waverly, which I thought was a blast despite feeling sandbagged as hell, and plenty of other good climbs I would happily repeat.
I've bailed off better, but for the life of me I can't remember agreeing to start anything worse.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
|
Did somebody fart?
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
Hey Survival, why the hate on Wes?
You love a route, he doesn't so much.
You asked about it, he responded.
You got all pissy. He gave it back at you.
Relax man, it's just climbing.
I've always thought of you as a really cool guy, but come on, lighten up a bit, ok?
Now it's time for a musical interlude....
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
pvalchev
Social climber
Mountain View, CA / Calgary, AB
|
|
I did both Waverley and Catchy Corner this last Sunday, within a couple of hours, so memory is fresh. They feel about the same to me, Catchy Corner is easier/more straightforward of the two to me if anything (it's my 3rd time on it, and I'd even downgrade it to 5.10+, there is no move harder than 5.10 and it's just the pump factor). The thing is, when you get something wired it will feel easier, and with some of these valley climbs that are 5 mins from the car, most people have climbed them multiple times by the time they start arguing the grades.
But really, 5.10c or 11a, the difference is VERY small, and the whole rating game is so subjective, who cares. It's like arguing with someone whether the approach hike is 10 or 15 minutes... it depends on how fit you are and how many beers you drank the night before.
Still haven't been on the DNB but the 5.11 or 5.10b with a bolt is irrelevant it seems, it's the technically-easier runouts that scare me and most others from doing the route. The Yosemite Grading System is supposed to be about the single hardest move, so it doesn't tell the story for climbs like that (not to mention that while it's TECHNICALLY supposed to be about the single hardest move, this is not consistently applied).
BTW isn't the DNB / surrounding area closed for falcon nesting in the spring? I thought I read that on the NPS site, but maybe the list has been updated as it's not there now...
That said, I've enjoyed this thread and the discussion, especially from those who have done the route - thanks!
|
|
wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
|
|
Vitaly,
The only reason to use the Supertopo guide is to know what climbs to avoid since the guide has mostly popular routes. Otherwise, best to use it to start a fire. Use the Reid guide.
|
|
snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
|
|
I'm psyched- who wants to go climb it?
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
Um, Will. I don't think Mike F or I, said "don't bother"....
Dat's true Jaybro, but I haven't ever talked to you fellers about it either (that I recall, anyway).
Still no takers? Let's go see what all the fuss is about (and viciously downgrade everything as we spray about it later). Last week of May, anytime. Who's game?
Lotta talk in this thread, surely somebody is more than an armchair philosopher, let's go send this rig.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
This isn't the first time survival has flipped his lid for petty reasons. I don't blame him though... says he hasn't climbed for over a year... that's gotta suck. Whether he is ill or whatever, best of luck to him getting back on the rock... it can only help.
inyoazz meet snowhazed... snowhazed, inyoazz. Enjoy!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!