Haul Lords: rate my 2:1 ratchet

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 121 - 138 of total 138 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
El Bucanero

climber
May 18, 2013 - 02:29am PT
With a double sheave pulley as your top pulley you would have the Zed cord running through it and also the haul line, down to maybe an inverted ascender.

It's not a bad idea but it increases the size and weight of the system you have to carry needlessly. You would be taking a larger pulley to give you good efficiency for your Zed cord but it would be far more than you need for the haul line. I personally don't lead with my ascenders so there is that I'd have to carry also. One ascender is far heavier than one Micro Trax.

Rockgymnast, overly complicated. 3:1 hauling is needed in only the most dire situations.

Franky, I'd like to hear about that.

Just an idea for a slick set-up:

A Rock Exotica Omni-Block 1.5" Double
[url=" http://www.rockexotica.com/products/pulleys/images/P51D2_med.jpg"] http://www.rockexotica.com/products/pulleys/images/P51D2_med.jpg[/url]

<img src="http://www.rockexotica.com/products/pulleys/images/P51D2_med.jpg">

with an inverted petzl basic bolted to the lower attachment point. One sheave and the basic act as the holding ratchet.

A bolt will keep it lined up nicely and closer to the pulley. (obviously a nice 8.8 bolt and washers). The omni has a built in swivel which means no cord link. And the side plates can be opened without taking it off the biner!

m_jones

Trad climber
Carson City, NV
May 24, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Regarding Marks setup of the Chongo hauling system: (which is awesome!)

Why 9/16" flat instead of cord to attach the top pulley?
Is either stronger as if that link fails, the haul bags fall. (best to make sure it is not hanging on by a thread after your 20th wall!!). A carabiner at that spot does not allign well. A swivel hangs everything a bit low. A draw as a back up works pretty good but adds to the stuff in the way.


Marks (chongo) system pre set up in a bag is so fast to implement. On both South Seas and Lost in America I would time his set up time after his leads. From when he yelled "off belay/you can jumar" it was about a minute (yes one minute) and the haul line came tight and he started hauling so I could clear the belay and get cleaning. After only a few leads I was able to get hauling just about as fast. Easy on the brain too as it is already set up.
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Thanks for the input all.

I got a chance to try the ratchet on the prow last week. We fixed the first 3 pitches and then did a long haul. The 2:1 was nice for those slabby first few pitches even though I could haul 1:1, the 2:1 was much less of an effort and left me with more energy for the next pitch. I hauled one more pitch 2:1 just for practice then went 1:1 the rest of the way.

I used a large wired nut in place of the green sling here:


Credit: matty


Now I can see how having lengths totally dialed and minimizing the amount of stretchy stuff in the system can really increase efficiency. If I was going to be hauling an entire pitch 2:1 I would use a setup like Marks with the micro trax mounted on a biner through the upper ratchet pulley. It was also nice to know you can always add the ratchet onto a 1:1 that gets too hard. The 2:1 ratchet definitely made passing a knott a breeze!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 24, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Matty... good job on the prow, and thanks for bringin Yafer back alive!

He is still sort of floating on the clouds....



briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
May 24, 2013 - 11:29am PT
Sweet nice send and haul man!!
matty

Trad climber
under the sea
Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
I'll work on a TR soon...I want to go back and do it IAD...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 24, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Mark- I think you are describing the effort part wrong. It's not about "not working hard" but about working smarter, not harder. By conserving energy on the hauls, you have more to exert on the wall. I think you realize which is more important, so just let all these traditionalist haulers continue to break their backs. They clearly don't and won't get it..
MattF

Trad climber
Bend, Or
Aug 3, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
Ok, I'm gearing up to do my first solo wall in late sept, and I was thinking that I'm going to be working hard enough doing all the leading and cleaning - might as well make hauling easier. So here's my 2:1 ratchet that I threw together just with what I already had and tested out in my house. I would love some feedback on it from the Haul (Over)Lords. Plus since I took video of mine, it might help other people 'get' it better.

Can't embed the videos, but here's the links. Let me know what you guys think:

1) Overview of the setup: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByS7rIJKEVqmUnk4bVN0Y3RXZE0/edit?usp=sharing

2) Demo hauling 140lb up a few feet: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByS7rIJKEVqmTWtqSnEzVGtjNE0/edit?usp=sharing

3) Beer! https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByS7rIJKEVqma1AwVnRDU2VaRXM/edit?usp=sharing

-------


Thoughts I had after re-watching the videos I just posted:

1) I said I could just barely get the load moving on the protrax at 1:1. What I really meant was that without using my feet to push off anything I could barely get it moving. On a wall where I had something to push against I could definitely 1:1 haul this. I'm 175, so 140 should be haul-able at 1:1.

2) here's the link to the permadraw I'm thinking of getting. Looks good, but maybe a bit longer than I really want... http://www.climbtechgear.com/cable-dogbone/
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 3, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Matt,
You pretty much have it. Don't worry about the ascender and pulley grinding against the Pro-Trax. In actual use, they will be far below. There is no advantage to them actually coming together like you show in your vid.

Also, that top biner is part of your hauling kit. You have a bag to hold the whole deal, don't you? That biner is what holds the whole kit together, in the bag, and then when you get to the anchor, clips it all to your hauling point.

Credit: Mark Hudon

See the purple bag behind the haul setup? The haul kit is never taken apart, it always stays on that biner, and is either being used or in that bag.

An important note here:

When you push down on the ascender, make sure you push down so that your Zed Cord runs through your system and is TIGHT to your belay loop. Remember, 2 to 1 mechanical advantage doubles both the advantages and the disadvantages. One inch of slack in the system will result in two inches of lost advantage.



Watch this vid. Watch how I move the lower rope grab down as I stand up.

Other than that, you're looking good.

Ultimately, simply go out and buy the gear to set it up exactly as I have it in a photo up thread. You will never improve on my set up enough to make it worth dicking around with other pulleys and rope grabs. I've hauled 9 walls worth of gear with it now. Max Jones loves it and Cheyne Lempe thinks it's sweet.
MattF

Trad climber
Bend, Or
Aug 3, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
Cool. Thanks Mark - I really appreciate all the feedback/advice you give out here and on your website.

So the pulleys coming together as the ratchets come together is not important? I read one of PTPP's posts somewhere that they should. Just thinking, the only reason I can think of why it would be beneficial is that is makes sure there is minimum amount of stretchy components in the system.

Also, thinking more, I realized that I probably need better pulleys like you have in your setup. I'm looking at picking up probably the Petzl Partner. I can't tell from your pic, is that what you use for your top pulley? http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-P52A-Partner-Pulley/dp/B0035PQ8O4

The CMI original has real good efficiency so its tempting, but looking at it, I don't think I would be able to do the pulley spanning biner if I did it that way since the sheath on the CMI isn't shaped right for that. Maybe use one for the bottom pulley on the ascender? http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/pulleys/original2.asp
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 3, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Thanks.

Pete probably does emphasize that to have the minimum cord stretch but that's really splitting hairs. I wouldn't worry about it especially if you are using 7 mil as your Zed cord.

Yes, better pulleys. I spent a total of $100 on mine. Both are SMC pulleys. The top one has a 2" sheave and the other is 1.5". It's money very well spent, believe me.

Both of my pulleys are on this page. SMC Rescue Pulleys The 2" Single PMP and the Micro Single PMP.

Use that CMI pulley as your top pulley, it dictates the advantage more than the lower one.

BTW, I'll be in the Valley from Sept. 25th to Oct 18th. I'm giving a presentation at the Facelift on the 25th. I'd be happy to talk further about any of your soloing needs.
MattF

Trad climber
Bend, Or
Aug 4, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
Gotcha on the splitting hairs. I won't worry about it too much. Much bigger efficiency gains to be made in getting better pulleys I think. Plus if the upside-down ratchet ascender was a little lower, then I wouldn't have to reach so high to reset it as I'm standing up, which would help make that a bit less awkward.

The CMI original looks like a good pulley and is a bit cheaper, but the problem is that I couldn't do the pulley spanning biner with it.

I think I'll get a petzl partner for the top pulley. Its 91% efficient, whereas the CMI original is 93.3%, so they're pretty close. Then I can get a CMI original for the bottom pulley.

Oh, and I think I'm going to get a FISH beef bag to hold the haul kit. While I'm at it, I'm going to pick up a couple of the large beef bags which I was thinking of using as the solo-tag-rack bag and associated rope bag to hold the remainder of the lead rope in the continuous loop system. Do you think those large beef bags would be good for that? Big enough? Tough enough to be tagged up the pitch periodically?

Finally, I'm planning on being in the valley from sept 17 through early Oct. I'm planning on being up on the stone during your slideshow, but hopefully I can meet you at the bridge and buy you a cobra!

Thanks again for the advice! Also cool that you're just up the road from me... :-)
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 4, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
The Beef bags are great but I think they will wear holes dragging on rock with gear inside. One of the Metolius haul packs would be a better choice but now you're getting into a bigger and heavier bag.
I think on my next solo that I'm not going to tag anything more than the haul kit and haul line. In all of my solos I've only needed to tag for gear maybe once.
MattF

Trad climber
Bend, Or
Aug 4, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Gotcha. I'm planning on soloing Muir Wall, so I won't need much of a pin rack (good thing too, but I don't really know what I'm doing with those funny metal spikey things just yet!), and I was kinda wondering about how useful it would be to have the extra tag bag if most of the pitches aren't going to be these monster many hour ordeals.

A couple points of clarification - you're still going to use the continuous loop system the same way, just without a tag-bag?

Also, you have your haul kit in a (small? medium?) beef bag. Are you going to keep it in that when you tag? I suppose you're still going to have to have the rope-bag and haul kit on a fifi with a slippery knot so when you tag it up you can re-hang it, right?
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 4, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
A couple points of clarification - you're still going to use the continuous loop system the same way, just without a tag-bag?

Also, you have your haul kit in a (small? medium?) beef bag. Are you going to keep it in that when you tag? I suppose you're still going to have to have the rope-bag and haul kit on a fifi with a slippery knot so when you tag it up you can re-hang it, right?

Yes, continuous loop but without the actually tag bag. I'll still tag up the haul kit, (in its medium Beef Bag), along with a rope bag, hung from the Petzl Fifi and made safe via the slippery knot.

Have fun on the Muir, it's on my schedule for the fall of 2014.
thekidcormier

Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
Feb 27, 2014 - 04:11am PT
Bump for big mike.

Rumor has it he was spotted hauling kit in the little smoke bluffs this week.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Feb 28, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
Well sir, that rumor is true thanks to your loan of equipment! Thanks matty for starting this thread and Pete and Marc for their contributions!!

Kagaroo corner haul
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 28, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
Big Mike.... good to see your on the mend.

Broken Back stories don't always have a happy ending.

TR?????
Messages 121 - 138 of total 138 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews