Haul Lords: rate my 2:1 ratchet

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 101 - 120 of total 138 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
julton

climber
May 13, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Would one imagine Sisyphus even happier with a 2:1 ratchet?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
Sisyphus shoulda waited for SuperTopo and the reinvention of the wheel.

I can see yous guys standing around the base of the Great Pyramid arguing
with the construction foreman.

"Ho, man! Yer doin' it all wrong!"
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
May 13, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Matty.... you have some fun, OK.

C-ya when you return.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
May 13, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
I second Mark on the whole not wanting to work hard.

Most of my previous walls were with very similar loads, most done with 1:1 hauling. Zodiac last week was the first time I didn't feel destroyed after each haul. Just slightly worked. For the top third of the route I was able to clip the Zee cord to my russian aider cuff and 2:1 leg haul. Especially at hanging belays I found the 2:1 leg haul to be a huge improvement, saving the arms and body for leading. Thankfully we were slow slugs, so I could almost always haul and dock the pig by time my partner got to the belay,

At the top I was able to just lean away from the haul tree to haul, it was great, getting 18" strokes out of a 3' lean. Then the bags got stuck. I switched to 1:1 hauling to try to bounce the bags over the lip, and boy was that miserable. So I went back to 2:1 and tried bouncing the bags again, and it was night and day better, and soon the bags were free and up over the summit with record low effort.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 13, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
MOOF!!!!! Do you realize that you're giving up Manliness Points by posting that!

We're talking Manliness Points, Moof, do you want to take a moment and think about it?
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
May 14, 2013 - 12:09am PT
Being a full haz-bin climber unable to do much more than muster one aid farce a year, I am already pretty well out of man points...
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
May 14, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Man points! ROFL

Good on ya for bringing perspective, Mark.
Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
May 15, 2013 - 01:18pm PT

Fred Kida 1979 from an ebay listing.

Why settle for less? LOL
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
May 15, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
Seriously been working on this last weekend but took no pictures. All I can say is that I've learned a ton and will continue to practice.

At first, when I read and responded to the OP, I was thinking in terms of something Weld-It-like, pictured below:

Credit: SCREENSHOT


Those rigging plates are nice, but the system doesn't need all that and we don't need to carry the weight.


So, I followed the instructions up thread and set up the 2:1 system. I spent a great deal of time trying out various lengths of loops for the pulleys and only then started to see what the HL's were talking about with respect to minimizing stuff that can stretch, but still allowing for that important freedom of movement. In the maple tree in our backyard I tried the haul setup low to the ground, and then up about 20 feet so that I could practice making the adjustment on the pull cord and trying the sit down ratchet.

I'll set it up again in the next few days and take some photos.
Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
May 17, 2013 - 08:38am PT
This is the ground training area.
Credit: Bill Mc Kirgan


I also tried from the top of the ladder to give me some practice on setup with something to stand on vs hanging in harness. As mentioned up-thread, stance makes a difference, and adjusting the orange (zed) cord with clove hitch to 2 carabiners a nice trick for being able to break the knot if it gets too tight.

Credit: Bill Mc Kirgan

Credit: Bill Mc Kirgan

Again, I had the wrong idea at the beginning of this tread and learned a lot from this review of information that is in many different threads here on ST and elsewhere like mountainproject.com .

So, I hope my 2:1 haul rig rates okay. It has some problems: fixe pulley at top of 2:1 is too small (should replace with something like the rescue pulley), and the mini traxion at the bottom of the 2:1 is not used for rope capture and should be replaced with a non-capture pulley (like the fixe).
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 17, 2013 - 09:54am PT
Yup, you're getting it. Replace those pulleys with ones with bigger sheaves, practice a bit and you'll be set.
julton

climber
May 17, 2013 - 10:36am PT
It sounds like you are body hauling on the Zed line via the clove hitch to 2 biners? Why not use your other Jumar?

I think the problem with a jumar on the zed cord would be the extra weight and maybe it moves too easily.

I don't understand this response. A jumar won't slip and isn't heavy enough to matter in the haul. So why not use a jumar to adjust the length of the Zed line? That's what I've always done when hauling 1:1.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 17, 2013 - 10:57am PT
The adjustment on the Zed cord is not dynamic, meaning once you have the Zed cord set to the correct length for that current situation, it stays that length for the entire hauling session.
You might get in a situation where your waist comes right up to the top pulley, a situation where the length of a biner and an ascender would be in the way.

In reality, two people of the same approximate size, on a typical hanging anchor, will probably just grab the biners where they were left on the Zed cord from the last haul and use that length. Max and I always leave a biner on the Zed cord and typically, finding the perfect pull length, takes only a minute or two.

Watching that vid of me hauling a bit up thread may clear up your question.
WBraun

climber
May 17, 2013 - 11:07am PT
What a mess.

It can be simplified with one double sheave pulley on top.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 17, 2013 - 11:11am PT
Credit: Mark Hudon

3:1 using only the rope.

Credit: Mark Hudon

3:1 Chongo Method

Credit: Mark Hudon

My current haul kit.

You all should just cut right to the chase, and set it up exactly as I have it here. I've hauled hundreds of pitches with it and it's as good a set up as it gets.

BTW, my Zed cord is some Spectra/Kevlar 5 mil that I bought at the Mountain Shop a few years ago. I've used it on five walls since then and it looks brand new.
rockgymnast

Trad climber
Virginia
May 17, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Has anyone every experimented with or used an "inverted piggy back" pulley system (it is a variation of the Spanish Burton pulley system)?

I came across this pulley system in the Ontario Rock Climbing Association Safety Manual. It has a theoretical 3:1 mechanical advantage, using the same number of pulleys as the shown 2:1 system.

I have attached a crude diagram.

Is it a viable system or is it overly complicated?
Credit: rockgymnast
franky

Trad climber
Bishop, CA
May 17, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Y'all should learn the T-Method of rating pulley systems, it works pretty well and can be learned pretty fast.
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
May 17, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
So why don't people use the double sheave system like Werner suggests?

Thanks for the photos Mark!
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 17, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
With a double sheave pulley as your top pulley you would have the Zed cord running through it and also the haul line, down to maybe an inverted ascender.

It's not a bad idea but it increases the size and weight of the system you have to carry needlessly. You would be taking a larger pulley to give you good efficiency for your Zed cord but it would be far more than you need for the haul line. I personally don't lead with my ascenders so there is that I'd have to carry also. One ascender is far heavier than one Micro Trax.

Rockgymnast, overly complicated. 3:1 hauling is needed in only the most dire situations.

Franky, I'd like to hear about that.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
May 17, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
"You all should just cut right to the chase, and set it up exactly as I have it here. I've hauled hundreds of pitches with it and it's as good a set up as it gets."

Concur.

Bill - from the looks of your photo it appears as though you could replace your turquoise sling with a carabiner, like Mark has done in his photo. [He doesn't have it assembled in his photo, but you can see the components]

There is no twist in your turquoise sling - which I assume to be non-stretch Spectra which will still stretch a bit on you on you - and it looks like everything will still fit together nicely if it's replaced with a crab.

"BTW, my Zed cord is some Spectra/Kevlar 5 mil that I bought at the Mountain Shop a few years ago. I've used it on five walls since then and it looks brand new."

Beware - the stuff can snap on your with little warning! However if you get a nice long hunk, you can trim the end that gets worked the most, and still have enough zed-cord left over to be able to pass knots joining haul lines.

Five walls, eh? Must be "all that work" your 120-lb 9% fat skinny-ass body can generate. Now if you were a Real Man* your Spectra zed-cord would never last that many walls.


































*As in, "rather more lard-assly" ...
Messages 101 - 120 of total 138 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews