Stonemaster Lore

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Messages 161 - 180 of total 206 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Uplander

Social climber
Upland
Jun 27, 2006 - 10:01pm PT
Roy-tard-buster, I told Keith you wanted me to lay a sloppy one on him, and he said he'd prefer you give it to him personally!

JL is supposed to be back in the states this weekend. Maybe we can get him, Mike L, and any of the other old guys together for dinner, huh? You know, a knitting party!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jun 27, 2006 - 10:07pm PT
We can compare yarns!
I'm in.

I live in Colorado,
My folks are still out by Pasadena.
Once a year, winter, I'm there.

Vogel and I were not sure how to reach you guys when a big bash got put together recently.

Email me and we'll do it.
Nighty-Nite.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 07:11am PT
Hey Ed,
That was pretty heartfelt stuff you just wrote.
Love is as love does I suppose.

A lot of us recognized the defining differences in risk between a life spent cragging vs alpinism.
'Glad you chose the former 'cause you substantially increased the odds of our current opportunity to enjoy your company.

On a lighter note, careful how you segregate the Stonemasters; upthread 50 posts and two threads left Largo pretty much gave me a Katsu for doing that!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2006 - 07:32am PT
Tar - John has a view of the Stonemasters which is quintessential for that time, it was something that was shared, a community intent in pushing beyond the boundaries. So When I think of the Stonemasters I think of blowing by the boundaries of what was considered to be the most difficult climbs, the limits of climbing, defined by a long tradition. The Stonemasters were willing and able to look at climbing in a different way then the majority of climbers at that time, and really push climbing to a new level of difficulty, to open the doors to the next level, as it were. At the time it was considered daring, probably even unsafe, the modern irony is that John Long has published the most thorough discussions of rock climbing safety that have ever existed based on the thoughtful experience of a climbing life pushing the limits of difficulty.

Pushing beyond the known boundaries and describing the personal experience is what we know as the adventure genre. Something I had always been interested in as a kid, so it was natural for me to take up as soon as I could become indepedent. While I did many adventursome things, climbing being one of them, I never took my climbing to the limts, I never participated in pushing the limits of climbing. While I am sure I would have been "welcome" into the fold of the Stonemasters at that time, I never did participate in adventure at that level.

Not to say I haven't had my adventures... but to look at the North Face of Mt. Alberta, stand next to it, and think of climbing it in any manner, you have to have something inside of you that says you will find a way to the top, and accept the idea that you may not, and not just that you won't find a way up, but that you won't find a way back.

Pushing the boundaries means having to deal with uncertainty, it is the very nature of going beyond the boundaries. It is the feeling of the first time we walk down the street, alone, as a child to a new block. Some kids do this easily, some never do... some are in between.

In that sense, I was never a Stonemaster.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 07:57am PT
Nice Ed,
I pretty much agree and was jesting about...

By the time "my" generation was in full swing, with the advent of friends and their established use, things became a bit more routine and perhaps just a tad less pioneer like.

Of course that depended upon our application of vision.
We were lucky enough to be involved in some harvesting of new terrain, sometimes on lead with a drill.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Jun 28, 2006 - 07:57am PT
I think you have it wrong, there, Ed. The reason you weren´t a Stonemaster is that we somehow never ran into you, even though I went to college and grad school right there in Claremont. If we´d ever hooked up you´d have been drawn into the vortex of the thing, like it or not. But that was then and what matters is what´s happening now, and in that context we´re reading about your exploits and adventures all the time, so you got there without us after all. But it would hae been fun to have had you along back in the day.

JL
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 08:01am PT
Invoking The Perennial in us there John?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2006 - 08:20am PT
As you say, that was then.... and I do have adventures now and enjoy sharing them with you all. And I have to say that I am completely comfortable with the choices I made. It is not judgemental, it just is.

But this is getting pretty heavy. I have to find a bit of whimsy to inject here soon. All I wanted to make sure was the LEB's inference in the first post was explained. While I have participated in climbing at that time, it was a very different time. We were a small band, several small bands, and found each other, or not, in a haphazard manner.

What is fantastic now as never before, is that all these experiences can be shared. That is a wonderful feature of the SuperTopo Forum and the greater internet experience...
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 08:56am PT
Hey Ed,
I think it's just getting good here.

Never mind any of us per our involvement in a personal way (and the good stuff is always personal), but there is a loose dialectic coming into focus here, which is opening the heart of the matter.

JL's original cast was for some or all of us to offer our perspectives on what the Stonemaster thing was (is) all about.

I think it's happening now.
Cool!

Here's the original post by JL:
"Anyone out there with old (before, say, 1975) Stonemaster stories, I'd love to hear them as I'm slowly trying to put something together. Hearing other perspectives might help trigger some long lost memories. The Stonemasters were always as much a frame of mind as anything else, but what folks remember--especially in terms of anecdotes, or what they thought the Stonemasters actually were, or stood for--might help give some little shape to what feels like a very amorphous subject".
Rokjox

Trad climber
Degnan's Deli
Jun 28, 2006 - 09:40am PT
Yes, we (those that are left) can share our experiences of the sport better than most I believe. Because one of the tricks of the sport is that, if you are pushing your limits, you have the precise same internal experiences as the masters.

Once you've experienced a hand cramping into a fist, painlessly, uselessly clutched, unable to open on its own, hanging desperately on a lead where you have immediate NEED of that hand; or a leg, foot standing on a dime edge, shaking uncontrollably, while over a 100 foot drop/fall, mind screaming "why are you here, you dead meat?" "God, this was a stupid idea; sorry.";

Then you have had the exact same internal experience as every other strung-out climber, no matter how hard he is. To survive and climb through those experiences breeds the same character traits in us all even if we climb at radically different levels. It provides a hilarious commonality of the experience of real terror with the mutual expectation that, if you couldnt handle it and make yourself function at a high level anyway, then you would either die soon, or quit trying...

Best sport I know for that, except perhaps (I am told) repeated CQ combat.

Lois, you keep saying you are somewhat more impressed by our collective ebulence and literacy, than the fame and skills of some of the cast here. I was never great, but I spent a lot of time getting above good; on the average most people liked climbing with me as I could get up what I tried, mostly I was just pretty reliable. Not so important on one or two pitch sport climbs. But if you are on multi-pitch climbs, you like to have people who can get to the top, as going down can be very difficult sometimes.

From where I stand, after MANY years of climbing, I have at least the experience, kmowlege and skills to understand and appreciate what is being done by those better than me (elite?). And it is so outrageous and incredible, the abilities and daring and skillz so obvious to me, and so beyond my personal reach.

You should be impressed by the skillset. Be very impressed. There are some impossibly capable athletes who can do things that would make almost anybody just melt into a puddle of puss, sobbing, shaking and moaning. And I ain't talking euphemisms here, that is just what the unfit (for the experience), DO. And we all know the risks are real and immediately terminal, unlike other "extreme sports" (games) like football.

This is a very "real" "sport". And many of the people are still incredible, even if many of my imaginary playmates here, are largely retired from making the impossible, flow. Almost everyone here of "a certain age" have bad backs, (elbows knees ankles wrists), healed broken bones, and a high tolarance for very large scrapes, abrasions, cuts and brusing. My own right fist doesnt close tight any more as I injured the thumb and/or fingers often enough without having them taken care of that they are a little stiff and arthritic. I know of several with this problem.

Its what you take home to bed, when it is all done. Its what is left, when its over. Its the memories of what you did and who you are to yourself. And when you cannot do it anymore, its still, who you are.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:50pm PT
blimp
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
^^^^

'Best sport I know for that, except perhaps (I am told) repeated CQ combat'.

Welll, both require a requisite amount of skill and luck, and like in climbing the balance or requirement between the two can subtly change.

But while it may seem, or feel like it, climbs aren't actually trying to kill you. The bad guys usually/always are!

Steve
mountainlion

Trad climber
California
Nov 15, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
LEB don't blaspheme here!

The stonemasters and all the early climbers in jtree from the 70's are inspiring to most of us. I am also inspired by the men on the cutting edge from John Muir, Chuck Wilts, Robbins, Harding Mallory, etc but most inspired by the stonemasters and Osman, Reardon and the people on the back of the new JT guidebook because I cut my teeth in JT and Tahquitz.

Take your hating someplace else!!
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Nov 15, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
Wtf?


LEB was an official Stonemaster historian and you guys shittcanned her?


is nothing sacred?



-
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
2006 GAHD!!!


So.... as far as I can determine.... and as far as this fine thread has established.



Craig Fry founded the Sheepbuggerers.

Everything else is superfluous nonsense.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
oh.... and perhaps MOST importantly.. This is LEB's finest contribution to Supertopo.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
Ya us sheepbuggers were the Neo-Stonemasters
we were the next Gen. after the S.M.
DE, RV, Spencer, Mike and Mari, E. E., Hensel, Dimes, etc.

The only real StomeMasters that lived on were Largo and Bachar, and Yabo for awhile
Ricky and Robs Muir were on and off through the early 80s.
plus some others that I don't want to leave out.

But of course we weren't sheep buggars, we were just the So Cal Locals of the late 70s early 80s.

The Fish and his crew, the next gen after us were the Real sheep buggars, and they would squeal and bah at all hours, night and day. And the Fish; the King and leader of the sheep buggars was a constant source of hilarity.
But these guys think they can rile me by calling me the thing I fight against the most, the King Sheep buggar, so I guess it will go on, and I will take my pill.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:29pm PT
Craig Fry founded the Sheepbuggerers.

Everything else is superfluous nonsense.

I have just re-read this thread and it triggered some old memories of Craig and his band of Buggerers. His braying was legendary and when pressed on just how he became the head of the Buggerers he would use Largo as an excuse. Seems Largo declared him the head buggerer one day up at Suicide Rock during a particularly spirited round of goat noises, all emanating from Craig Fry. We were really too young to understand just what he was on about, but the legend lives on, and on real quiet nights you can still hear his mournful call.

Edit: hahahaha! Craig was writing his deal above as I was writing mine! Simul-post!
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:38pm PT
One story

Me, DE EE and RV were doing our first group solo of Walk on the Wild Side.
we were at the crux, and we can hear a car load of young punks in the Parking lot buggering it up so loud, that the Rangers had to come and subdue the pimply youth. I think they hauled them away and locked them up for the night.

Good thing, DE EE was getting a little thrown off while negotiating the slippery slopers on the crux route, and if he fell, it would be Blood on the Fish's hands

Later, we had words for them, and kicked their little sheep asses.
Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Nov 15, 2012 - 07:59pm PT
King of the Sheep Buggars trolling for Sheep
King of the Sheep Buggars trolling for Sheep
Credit: Locker
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