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right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 01:07am PT
We can compare yarns!
I'm in.

I live in Colorado,
My folks are still out by Pasadena.
Once a year, winter, I'm there.

Vogel and I were not sure how to reach you guys when a big bash got put together recently.

Email me and we'll do it.

right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 10:11am PT
Hey Ed,
That was pretty heartfelt stuff you just wrote.
Love is as love does I suppose.

A lot of us recognized the defining differences in risk between a life spent cragging vs alpinism.
'Glad you chose the former 'cause you substantially increased the odds of our current opportunity to enjoy your company.

On a lighter note, careful how you segregate the Stonemasters; upthread 50 posts and two threads left Largo pretty much gave me a Katsu for doing that!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2006 - 10:32am PT
Tar - John has a view of the Stonemasters which is quintessential for that time, it was something that was shared, a community intent in pushing beyond the boundaries. So When I think of the Stonemasters I think of blowing by the boundaries of what was considered to be the most difficult climbs, the limits of climbing, defined by a long tradition. The Stonemasters were willing and able to look at climbing in a different way then the majority of climbers at that time, and really push climbing to a new level of difficulty, to open the doors to the next level, as it were. At the time it was considered daring, probably even unsafe, the modern irony is that John Long has published the most thorough discussions of rock climbing safety that have ever existed based on the thoughtful experience of a climbing life pushing the limits of difficulty.

Pushing beyond the known boundaries and describing the personal experience is what we know as the adventure genre. Something I had always been interested in as a kid, so it was natural for me to take up as soon as I could become indepedent. While I did many adventursome things, climbing being one of them, I never took my climbing to the limts, I never participated in pushing the limits of climbing. While I am sure I would have been "welcome" into the fold of the Stonemasters at that time, I never did participate in adventure at that level.

Not to say I haven't had my adventures... but to look at the North Face of Mt. Alberta, stand next to it, and think of climbing it in any manner, you have to have something inside of you that says you will find a way to the top, and accept the idea that you may not, and not just that you won't find a way up, but that you won't find a way back.

Pushing the boundaries means having to deal with uncertainty, it is the very nature of going beyond the boundaries. It is the feeling of the first time we walk down the street, alone, as a child to a new block. Some kids do this easily, some never do... some are in between.

In that sense, I was never a Stonemaster.

right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 10:57am PT
Nice Ed,
I pretty much agree and was jesting about...

By the time "my" generation was in full swing, with the advent of friends and their established use, things became a bit more routine and perhaps just a tad less pioneer like.

Of course that depended upon our application of vision.
We were lucky enough to be involved in some harvesting of new terrain, sometimes on lead with a drill.

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Jun 28, 2006 - 10:57am PT
I think you have it wrong, there, Ed. The reason you weren´t a Stonemaster is that we somehow never ran into you, even though I went to college and grad school right there in Claremont. If we´d ever hooked up you´d have been drawn into the vortex of the thing, like it or not. But that was then and what matters is what´s happening now, and in that context we´re reading about your exploits and adventures all the time, so you got there without us after all. But it would hae been fun to have had you along back in the day.


right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 11:01am PT
Invoking The Perennial in us there John?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jun 28, 2006 - 11:20am PT
As you say, that was then.... and I do have adventures now and enjoy sharing them with you all. And I have to say that I am completely comfortable with the choices I made. It is not judgemental, it just is.

But this is getting pretty heavy. I have to find a bit of whimsy to inject here soon. All I wanted to make sure was the LEB's inference in the first post was explained. While I have participated in climbing at that time, it was a very different time. We were a small band, several small bands, and found each other, or not, in a haphazard manner.

What is fantastic now as never before, is that all these experiences can be shared. That is a wonderful feature of the SuperTopo Forum and the greater internet experience...

right here, right now
Jun 28, 2006 - 11:56am PT
Hey Ed,
I think it's just getting good here.

Never mind any of us per our involvement in a personal way (and the good stuff is always personal), but there is a loose dialectic coming into focus here, which is opening the heart of the matter.

JL's original cast was for some or all of us to offer our perspectives on what the Stonemaster thing was (is) all about.

I think it's happening now.

Here's the original post by JL:
"Anyone out there with old (before, say, 1975) Stonemaster stories, I'd love to hear them as I'm slowly trying to put something together. Hearing other perspectives might help trigger some long lost memories. The Stonemasters were always as much a frame of mind as anything else, but what folks remember--especially in terms of anecdotes, or what they thought the Stonemasters actually were, or stood for--might help give some little shape to what feels like a very amorphous subject".

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:50pm PT

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 15, 2012 - 04:32pm PT

'Best sport I know for that, except perhaps (I am told) repeated CQ combat'.

Welll, both require a requisite amount of skill and luck, and like in climbing the balance or requirement between the two can subtly change.

But while it may seem, or feel like it, climbs aren't actually trying to kill you. The bad guys usually/always are!


Trad climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
LEB don't blaspheme here!

The stonemasters and all the early climbers in jtree from the 70's are inspiring to most of us. I am also inspired by the men on the cutting edge from John Muir, Chuck Wilts, Robbins, Harding Mallory, etc but most inspired by the stonemasters and Osman, Reardon and the people on the back of the new JT guidebook because I cut my teeth in JT and Tahquitz.

Take your hating someplace else!!
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
2006 GAHD!!!

So.... as far as I can determine.... and as far as this fine thread has established.

Craig Fry founded the Sheepbuggerers.

Everything else is superfluous nonsense.
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
oh.... and perhaps MOST importantly.. This is LEB's finest contribution to Supertopo.
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 15, 2012 - 10:29pm PT
Craig Fry founded the Sheepbuggerers.

Everything else is superfluous nonsense.

I have just re-read this thread and it triggered some old memories of Craig and his band of Buggerers. His braying was legendary and when pressed on just how he became the head of the Buggerers he would use Largo as an excuse. Seems Largo declared him the head buggerer one day up at Suicide Rock during a particularly spirited round of goat noises, all emanating from Craig Fry. We were really too young to understand just what he was on about, but the legend lives on, and on real quiet nights you can still hear his mournful call.

Edit: hahahaha! Craig was writing his deal above as I was writing mine! Simul-post!
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:05pm PT
Another weird twist is all the Sheep Buggerers, including their leader Craig Fry, were members of the Young Republicans based out of Pacoima, Ca. The chapter was eventually folded when the Buggerers revolted against their right wing leader and became mostly left leaning sackless slab climbers of no real note.
Anxious Melancholy

Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
Nov 15, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
Meanwhile, the river flowed, and while those tossed upon the banks attracted attention, the majority caught eddies, navigated the riffles, and thoroughly enjoyed our ignorant passage. (Speaking as 1972 Tahquitz/Suicide/JT floatsum)
Mighty Hiker

Vancouver, B.C.
Nov 16, 2012 - 10:04pm PT
Sheep buggerer "lore", not just from Russ and Craig, starting at:
Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 16, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
The rundown:

Sheep Buggerers and other hanger ons including the JoeBoys and the Uplanders:
The Driver
The Moon
The Manx
The Boxer
The Fish
The Creature
The Maiden
The Shake Bro
Tony Monteil
The Watusi
Keith Cunning
Ed Kaufer
That Russian Guy Joe Kiss
The Keg Head
FlairDog aka Larry Loads
Craig Fry (the leader)
Joe Hedge

Probably more but I'm cooking dinner......

Trad climber
da'Raven / Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 16, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
Speaking of "Sheep Buggerer lore" ...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#274155
...i hear she's writing a 'tell all' book!

Russ Walling

Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
Nov 16, 2012 - 10:48pm PT

Just added Joe Hedge

Then you have:

The Inflatable Man
The Human Drug Machine
The Simpleton
Doogan the Tin Man
The Frog
Dick Cilley, second in command to Craig
Tom Grimes
Kevin Powell
The San Diego Bent
The Almondjoybar Brothers
Doc of Shock
Brother Gaines
The Ruby DuLuxe
Doug the Slug Zeisner (2nd strongest man in the world)
The Schmutzfink
Herman the German
That one dude with the big hand... aka "The Hand"
Toe Tag Tom
Luke the Fluke
Karl; with a K
Nay Gro
Dave and Steve Tapes
Them girls that liked Mowtown....
The Old Ass Hippes,
The Bone Tipson or Nardson or Springs
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