What Is Trad ?????????

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Kironn Kid

Trad climber
Apr 23, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Old cotton coin bag from local bank as a chalkbag.

Kiron Kid
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 26, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Tard, trad, dart, drat.
Tard, trad, dart, drat.
Credit: mouse from merced
"What is Red pointin' at?????????"
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 26, 2013 - 06:23am PT
I don't know how to break this to younDingus. Freddy has been reabsorbed by the power of the trad
"It's been a long strange trip but I'm back, and I'm beautiful! Tell dingus that no matter what he drills for me I ain't goin' sport no more!"

It seems it was the invert move on Serrator that set him back on the path.
Seen here in the desert, where he traded his draws and grigri for the tub of cams below. He quit his job, and mumbled something about spotting Alex on free solos.....
Credit: Jaybro
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 26, 2013 - 06:49am PT
Trad?

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jd8VT7PfO1A]
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 07:45am PT
But, is she TRAD?


Or to put it another way:

Does She or Doesn't She?
(Tagline from a 70s Clairol hair coloring commercial)


picture from a NOLS postcard I just received in the mail

Reilly, take notice here, this is your new trad poster boy counterpart.
No doubt she can help you upgrade your knot tying skills just check out those sweet little shoelace backups for her flagging socks!

Aspiring Trad Heads please LISTEN UP:
CURRENT CHANGES TO THE RULES OF TRAD

Modern gear climbers like to wear packs while leading; no worries.
 But from now on, to earn and keep the respected mantle of trad, climbers MUST wear the vintage Kelty frame style pack modeled in the photo above! No exceptions!

 In addition, concerning socks, well by golly they must be worn.
 And more importantly: the little string thingies are now mandatory! No exceptions!
 Rules of Trad spoken right here, right now and forever!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 08:27am PT
Right then, back to serious business!

Court is now in session, in service of the continued ruling over the current status of TRAD!
Gavel down Bonk Bonk!

SPECIAL REPORT:
His Royal Tarness has just returned from Safari down in Indian Creek,
Where he engaged in serious investigative reporting and critical fact checking concerning the matter.
Full disclosure ... alcohol may have been ... er ... was involved:





Granted, as MH2 pointed out, there is little difference between Smith Rock and Indian Creek in terms of crowding and overall impact.
Glad we settled that can of worms and I'm happy all of you spent some time on the trampoline hashing out any environmental distinctions between trad and sport.

Well done and thank you ladies and gentlemen for that earnest work!



BUT to my FINDINGS!
I now present to you Northern Arizona climbers Dave Bloom, Bosco, John and Joel:



Dave Bloom, author of the Indian Creek guidebook, known on supertopo as: The Doctor, 49 years old.
Bosco, rescue dog and Flagstaff climber, age unknown.
John, Flagstaff climber, 25 years old.
Joel, Flagstaff climber, 29 years old.

So I asked the younger gentleman: what do you guys know of trad?
What does the current generation know of trad?

(all quotes paraphrased in accordance with my notes)

John, 25-year-old climber:
"Well, my dad was a trad climber so I know all about it. Mainly I climb sport, but I also climb trad and will be targeting things in the 12+ and 13 minus range here for the next three or four days. My focus won't necessarily be ground-up trad climbing, although I'll try some stuff ground-up on-site, however, I may also be head pointing and using a sport climbing approach to include aid inspection or top roping or whatever."

Joel, 29-year-old climber:
"I think since we are Northern Arizona climbers we know more about trad than they may in other areas. We use all styles, but I definitely like to climb things on site ground-up whenever possible. I climb up to 12- trad on-site and if I fail on something like a 12+ I like to come back and red point. Meaning I like to replace all my gear on subsequent attempts. Gear climbing and trad climbing are probably synonymous to most climbers these days; but we do get the difference in Northern Arizona. No aiding or pink pointing for a valid trad ascent in Northern Arizona. Most 18 to 21-year-olds probably just call it gear climbing and don't understand trad. I'd guess out of all modern climbers, about 10% understand trad for what it is."

Dave Bloom, 49 year old climber:
In 2003 Mr. Bloom on-site flashed the regular route on Half Dome, except for beta he'd received concerning the last pitch. He told me it's all just climbing. Or he tried too Frankly, I interrupted him because I deemed him too old and experienced to reflect what the younger generations know.

In short I tossed out Mr. Bloom's testimony because he knows too much! I'm kind of a dick that way; but it's how I roll, YO.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 08:47am PT
Right then,
Let's please all hold hands and respectfully move on to Exhibit A.

Joel's on-site flash of Steve Hong's wunnerful "Family Home Night" Simply rated 5.12.



Okay, first order of business, some things have changed!
For instance, young climbers who may also climb trad now use all-new-and-improved hand signals:





EXHIBIT A
Joel methodically ticking off Family Home, 5.12, April 19, 2013:





















What Is Trad?
I submit to you: This Is Trad!

Okay okay okay, so he didn't walk off the back and he doesn't rack on a sling. I know.
But remember, the definition of trad is not hard and fast; no, just a set of fuzzy book-ended guidelines.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 09:25am PT
And so, as an aside ... a personal matter really,
Joel is my new Trad Hero, be it as it may that he's just a modern climber who also climbs trad.
Full disclosure: it used to be Pat Kingsbury, but I haven't seen him for a while and Joel is the new thing. I'm kind of a slut that way.



Dig:
Young climbers usually look to older climbers for their heroes.
While old climbers often look to young climbers in search of heroes.
That's just kind of the way it slopes out. Trust me on this one!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 26, 2013 - 09:30am PT
Only her belayer knows for sure....
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 09:39am PT
hahahahahaha
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Apr 26, 2013 - 09:48am PT
"What Is Trad??????"

.....Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me.....no more.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hU49o6zA5eo
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 26, 2013 - 10:21am PT
What Is Trad?
I submit to you: This Is Trad!


So, a trip to IC and suddenly TRAD is chalk highways, gear-beta, grades and names written on rocks in chalk, and chain anchors. Awesome.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 26, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Do you pop the balloons at other kids' birthday parties?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Apr 26, 2013 - 11:53am PT
Absolutely.

The climbers he interviewed are obviously trads, and quite accomplished ones, but not by the Yos Rockmaster, olskool, OG, definition.

It is time to broaden the word.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Just think: Classic Rock in the music genre.
These guys aren't simply and only Trads; they play other, er ... progressive styles ... underground psychedelia & etc..
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 26, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Kinda Techno / Jamband....



So Compton, are you eluding to a granfalloon you presume to speak for?
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Apr 26, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
Credit: The Ski Hut

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Apr 26, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Classic Rock is the perfect example of the evolution of things - pop rock to Perry Como status, blink of an eye!

Boomers? Your children look at your music and climbing as you looked at your parents.

It doesn't matter if you think Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd were the greatest rock banks of all time. :-) You don't have a vote any more. I always thought Frank Sinatra SUCKED, myself :-D

Same for the modern definition of trad... is has moved beyond us.

Cool thread.

DMT
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Glad you are enjoying it DMT!

Perhaps the distinguishing feature here and I am with Warbler on this, is that subsequent generations know quite well what classic rock was and is. Likewise, they don't try or even want to say that their modern musical forms are to be defined as classic rock.

Pretty much the same with the young Arizonans whom I met this weekend: for example, within 3 min. my query was clearly answered by them. They know what trad is and they know when they are engaging in tactics which have moved beyond trad. They don't then call that trad. They also know the term is nearly anachronistic but they still know exactly what it means in terms of route opportunities and actions.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
If modern climbers, through some slow accretion of various tactics want to change the face of trad and completely redefine the term, then of course we can't change that here.

But, here's why and how it can be important or desirable to leave the definition more or less intact: from Alpinist 42, an excerpt from an article called Homage, by Brandon Pullan:
"To learn to climb here, I needed to turn to the elders History wasn't just a lesson about the past, but a means to create the future."

The Arizona boys totally get this. They understand the usefulness of the distinction of the basic definition of Trad. It is useful to them because they aspire to its product.
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