RyanD
climber
Squamish
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May 22, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
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I think that boulder problem in Vitaliy's photo is a Gill route.
when he did it it was trad.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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May 23, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
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Kevin, that description seems appropriate if we are talking about "climbers"
but I interpreted it as the "activity of climbing was noble"
which is a bit pretentious considering how selfish it is overall.
Maybe I misunderstood but was just looking for clarification.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 23, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
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Noble schmobel. And courage schmourage for that matter. After 56 years, I love climbing as much as the next guy, but nobility and courage (except when referring to those who perform rescues) hardly apply to what is, in the end, just a game we choose to play.
Don't get me wrong, the game seems important to the players. To us. Some have devoted their lives to it. But I see more nobility in someone who, say, gives up a passion for climbing and works two jobs so their kids can have a better life than in all our heros combined posing on all the hard-gained summits of the planet.
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T Hocking
Trad climber
Redding, Ca
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May 23, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
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Quote But I see more nobility in someone who, say, gives up a passion for climbing and works two jobs so their kids can have a better life than in all our heros combined posing on all the hard-gained summits of the planet. Here
+1 WORD!
Guilty myself.
30 yr. climbing hiatus to do just that.
resumed climbing after becoming a grandfather.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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May 23, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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Trad. It's a myth, man.
Homer told me about that sh#t. Achilles was Trad, right?
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DanaB
climber
CT
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May 24, 2013 - 06:37am PT
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but nobility and courage (except when referring to those who perform rescues) hardly apply to what is, in the end, just a game we choose to play.
No kidding. Climbers are just ordinary people with a slightly unusual hobby, nothing more.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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May 24, 2013 - 10:57am PT
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What Dana said!
Being climbers doesn't make us special, just a bit odd.
However wonderful the climbing game is to play; however fun and even transformative it can be, however great it can be to be part of the tribe; regardless of how awe inspiring some are at playing the game, it's just a game we play and doesn't make us anything special. What we do in life really starts to count when it counts for someone else. Just sayin...
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Randisi
Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
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May 24, 2013 - 10:59am PT
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Climbers are ordinary people?
Bwahahahahaha!
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MH2
climber
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May 29, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Donini bump!
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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MH2, awesome loincloth, yours??
Where do I get one?
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jstan
climber
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1300 posts. Too much for me.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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Jstan, wow, you've been deep in the archives. This thread got a lot of people going, BITD! Thank you, by the way, for helping develop and champion clean climbing!
This is where TarBuster started (I miss Roy):
Trad:
Start from the bottom, carry gear on a sling, protect as you go, top out, pound chest and yell like Tarzan.
Fall on the way up? Lower down, pull rope, try again. Three strikes and your out. At the worst, yoyo.
Dig?
Here is my unofficial summary. You're, respectfully, included as the originator of a unique subset of the free climbing game. The following is also with respect for Lito Tejada Flores and his article, "Games Climbers Play."
1) Free Climbing - what climbers did before trad (up to around 1972); almost exclusively pins and hand tied slings for pro, one inch swamis; body belays; fall occasionally on some climbs, usually only a few times (see John Stannard Free Climbing as a subset that makes an exception to this rule); no hangs, lower to a rest stance before retry, no pulling on pro; on some routes better not effing fall.
1a) Free Climbing (John Stannard subset) - Boldly and doggedly fall and keep coming back til you get that sucker!
2) Old School Trad - associated with the clean climbing revolution that was catalyzed by the 1972 Chouinard catalog which contained "The Whole Natural Art of Protection" by Doug Robinson; mostly disappeared after cams (Friends) became more widely available around 1980; almost exclusively nuts (primarily hand knotted perlon sling hexes and stoppers) and hand tied slings for pro, two inch swamis (occasional Whillans or Forrest harnesses); usually includes use of chalk; a mix of body belays and belay plates (sometimes a chain link) for belaying; take a few falls on some climbs; no hangs; lower to a rest stance before retry, no pulling on pro, yo-yo once in a while; on some perfectly parallel cracks you either have to work freakishly hard to hang on long enough to get a hex in or can't get a hex to stick, sometimes best to just gun it until you can get something in and hope you don't effing fall; on offwidths you'll either have nothing for pro or you will have wobbly tube chocks that will help you deceive yourself into believing you have pro (using bigbros when aiming to climb Old School Trad might or might not be cheating; let's have a discussion).
2a) Old School Trad (Henry Barber subset) - pull your rope through your high point in order to re-lead your next attempt; occasionally climb barefoot and use only jammed knots for pro.
2b) Old School Trad (Arizona subset) - no chalk.
2c) Old School Trad (Jim Erikson subset) - no chalk and if you fall you don't try again...ever, unless it's Half Dome.
3) Classic Trad - same as Old School Trad except you get to use cams and all the other modern gizmos.
4) Modern Trad - same as Classic Trad except you get to hangdog and all the other stuff from sport climbing when climbing Free Climbs (established before 1972) or Trad Climbs (established ground up after 1972; may include hand drilled bolts placed on stance which is the same as for Old School Trad and Classic Trad.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Mark:
2b or not 2b?
I choose 2b - or not to be at all - in my climbing.
I don't get the advantage of chalk and never use same. Tried it once, but saw no benefit. Looks a lot like a nervous tic to me. Like not stepping on cracks in the sidewalk - a nervous dip before the climber commits to a move.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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"White courage."
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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"Disco Powder"
No wait, that is the other white dust of placebo courage.
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jstan
climber
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In the times I climbed with Henry, I never saw him fail. So I can't vouchsafe whether he ever pulled a rope.
Now that I am,briefly, on the topic of Henry, it has taken me all these years to figure out why he left Wharton School of business. At the time I thought his intelligence and ability such that he would have wound up CEO of Exxon. What a missed potential.
But I have recently heard of business practices associated with Wharton that had problems. Henry left Wharton because he simply could not tolerate such stuff. IMO.
Anyway, on to the theory I am working on regarding climbers. We are drama queens. If there is drama, we love it. Whether it is poo fights on ST or run out climbs, it's all good. I don't need to present data here. It's bloody obvious.
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Ojai Alex
Trad climber
Ojai, CA
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Awesome Mark! I will add...
5) Throwback Trad: a modern era ascent conducted in accordance with the classic trad ethos, sometimes combined with one or more subsets.
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