RIP Margret Thatcher


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Trad climber
Apr 9, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Comments from all over the globe show how polarizing a figure she was. She may get credit for turning the UK economy around but shouldn't a lot of that go to the discovery of North Sea oil? That was one thing that really saved the UK.

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 9, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Her "victims?" What about the victims of those she fought? The British coal mines were nothing more than a welfare scheme for a well-connected constituency of Labour, as were so many other government enterprises of the time. Those working in areas that were pulling their weight were being dragged down by the dead weight of those sectors kept afloat in spite of their contributions to the economy. The British economy was heading toward disaster and international irrelevance, because those contributing were producing less than the subsidized were receiving.

Thatcher broke that bondage to the second coming of mercantilism, and that policy shift transformed the British economy's trajectory for the good of the country. Those working in industries that were wards of the state will always hate her, because she forced them to adapt to economic realities, rather than to live off the earnings of others. That will be the case with every leader who ends favored treatment based on non-economic criteria.

National Leftist Radio really outdid itself today on Morning Edition. Its only comment on Thatcher's death was to quote a miner bitter about her insistence that coal mines operate at a profit. He said, in effect "That made it personal," as if the mines' subsidies from profitable industries wasn't personal to the payers.

Meanwhile, we get to watch how the dangers about which she warned, all of which can be summarized as running out of other peoples' money, come home to roost on so many of the western welfare states.

mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 9, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
She wasn't loved by all--JD

My favorite verse is all of these,

you slimy piece of cheese.

Werner would jump.


Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Apr 9, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
imagine how much toilet paper she used,

Big Mike

Trad climber
Apr 9, 2013 - 01:55pm PT

My folks taught me long ago to not speak ill of the dead.

From the same article

This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power.

Tellingly, few people have trouble understanding the need for balanced commentary when the political leaders disliked by the west pass away. Here, for instance, was what the Guardian reported upon the death last month of Hugo Chavez:

To the millions who detested him as a thug and charlatan, it will be occasion to bid, vocally or discreetly, good riddance."

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Apr 9, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
Saw her speak in 94'

A great experience.


Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 9, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Time for a Ska resurgence!!!
Big Mike

Trad climber
Apr 9, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
Ron, just an article i quoted. No disrespect is intended.

The last point is valid though, the article continues, and says;

Nobody, at least that I know of, objected to that observation on the ground that it was disrespectful to the ability of the Chavez family to mourn in peace. Any such objections would have been invalid. It was perfectly justified to note that, particularly as the Guardian also explained that "to the millions who revered him – a third of the country, according to some polls – a messiah has fallen, and their grief will be visceral." Chavez was indeed a divisive and controversial figure, and it would have been reckless to conceal that fact out of some misplaced deference to the grief of his family and supporters. He was a political and historical figure and the need to accurately portray his legacy and prevent misleading hagiography easily outweighed precepts of death etiquette that prevail when a private person dies.

Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

Big Wall climber
Apr 12, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
She was just like Reagan, loved more after she wrecked the place

Dr F u know better!
more like reagan was taught by Margret.

get ur historical stuff right :)

RIP Margret T.


Hobart, Australia
Apr 12, 2013 - 05:45pm PT
Paul credits Maggie for the rise in British climbing standards in the 80's.

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Apr 12, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
Credit: guido

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 12, 2013 - 10:18pm PT


Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 12, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Here's an example of something that makes the the Evangelicals cringe.

That being the problem with Satan is, Satan ain't always wrong...

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 12, 2013 - 10:50pm PT

Would the USA in general and yourself in particular hitch up to a supranational governing body from outside of the boundaries that make your home what it is ?

I love sharing the pie with less economically privileged regions of Canada because we are all Canadian and pull together for each other when times are tough.

That's a different brand of being social than having something imposed by some people who don't necessarily share our interests.

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 12, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Her last sentience summarizes Dr Fraud.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 12, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Back to what I said about sea change, there was a noticeable upsurge in narrow minded wealth creation during the latter 1980's in Canada.

Brian Mulroney was our PM and a leader in divesting a nation of believing that how you care for the less fortunate is a measure of a nation.

I'm not castigating people for finding alternatives to work because I tried as hard as I could to solve that dilemma, while working on climbing technique...

I'm talking about how so many rich nations used the expedience of "community integration" to close down institutions that offered various levels of care and refuge for people with mental, psychological and emotional trouble.

Crazy people living under cardboard boxes and self medicated homelessness isn't something that just dropped out of the clouds. There was a determined drive in the 1980's to divest national societies of any obligation.

Getting a job by everyone else was just the math concerning the unemployment insurance party being over and was sadly understood by many climbers !


Trad climber
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Here's another statement The Smiths' singer Morrissey made about the passing of Margaret Thatcher today, even more cutting than the one he made yesterday:
The difficulty with giving a comment on Margaret Thatcher’s death to the British tabloids is that, no matter how calmly and measured you speak, the comment must be reported as an “outburst” or an ”explosive attack” if your view is not pro-establishment.

If you reference “the Malvinas”, it will be switched to “the Falklands”, and your “Thatcher” will be softened to a “Maggie.” This is generally how things are structured in a non-democratic society. Thatcher’s name must be protected not because of all the wrong that she had done, but because the people around her allowed her to do it, and therefore any criticism of Thatcher throws a dangerously absurd light on the entire machinery of British politics.

Thatcher was not a strong or formidable leader. She simply did not give a sh#t about people, and this coarseness has been neatly transformed into bravery by the British press who are attempting to re-write history in order to protect patriotism. As a result, any opposing view is stifled or ridiculed, whereas we must all endure the obligatory praise for Thatcher from David Cameron without any suggestion from the BBC that his praise just might be an outburst of pro-Thatcher extremism from someone whose praise might possibly protect his own current interests.

The fact that Thatcher ignited the British public into street-riots, violent demonstrations and a social disorder previously unseen in British history is completely ignored by David Cameron in 2013. In truth, of course, no British politician has ever been more despised by the British people than Margaret Thatcher.

Thatcher’s funeral on Wednesday will be heavily policed for fear that the British tax-payer will want to finally express their view of Thatcher. They are certain to be tear-gassed out of sight by the police.

United Kingdom? Syria? China? What’s the difference?”
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 13, 2013 - 11:49am PT
I interviewed her in 1989 when I was editor of Training Personnel magazine (Wembley/Stonebridge Park) after she had instigated the launch of the Training and Enterprise Councils (TECs).

I will not speak ill of the dead, but she was not my cup of tea and a tough interview.

But I challenge some of those who think her legacy is sparkling. The Argentinian Junta saved her premiership, she was down in the low 20s in the polls. I am sure she was glad that the generals decided (because they were also in the shits) to attack the Falklands/Malvinas.

The best way to get a country behind you, is to go to war, as the Argie generals did and Thatcher obliged.

Interesting to see that the conservative posters on the Taco Stand think she was wonderful. I lived under her rule, I researched her, and I interviewed her.


As a side note regarding the Falklands/Malvinas conflict. I had fellow colleagues, English, tell me that the US did not help Britain. BS.

We gave them the loan of ships and logistics. Even though Reagan and Thatcher were close (Hmmm, I wonder how close, did Nancy and Denis know, hah hah, okay, now I am being mean) he wasn't so sure how much help and support to give as to not to upset the OAS (Organization of American States) who were supporting the Argie argument, but Casper Weinberger convinced Ronnie Raygun to help our 'cousins'.

I tried telling my British colleagues, why did Weinberger receive an honorary British knighthood from Queen Elizabeth II.
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Apr 13, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Okay, one more comment. Leaders should be strong, but being dogmatic and obstinate as Maggie was... good democratic leadership should have room for compromise. There is more than one at the party.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 13, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Ska Music intermission for Jaybro !

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