Hey, Hosers, why is this such a secret, eh?

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Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2013 - 11:53am PT
Mike, I will look at that later, thanks. I am a huge noise pollution
nut. Just this morning I was bitching to myself about the phukking low-flying
helocopters. If I ever go postal it may well be against them. But I assure
you that living 100' from a very large turbine there can not possibly be any
air pressure difference other than turbulence. Noise aside I would not want
to be too close, say less than 300', from a large turbine (250KW) because I
am not convinced there are not effects due to the induction of such high power
lines. An old college friend grew up working the farmlands around Ellensburg,
WA. He was a god-fearing down-to-earth engineer devoid of any vices, other
than climbing. He averred that after a day of mowing hay beneath the big
power lines going from the Columbia R dams to Seattle that he would have a
serious headache. And he never got headaches otherwise.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 3, 2013 - 11:58am PT
And remember, those 24-packs of beer? It's in Canada, eh, so they're metric cases.

And prohibitively expensive. Can that little rig even move under that kind of weight? How many OZ can it hold?
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Apr 3, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Hoser- do you really want the ecology of every major tributairy in British Columbia disrupted??

Are you referring to the 9000+ hectare Site C dam or RoR projects that are built on non fish bearing streams and no reservoirs.

Or are you with John Beck who wants to frack , build numerous pipelines to tidewater, then somehow power the plants so that they can turn the gas into liquid.

The whole reason BC is going to see higher electricity prices is because of the new LNG plants that are going in.

Wind and RoR seem like the best way forward.

Power plants basically idle at night due to low demand

What kind of power plants? Coal plants never shut down, day or night.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 3, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
Are you referring to the 9000+ hectare Site C dam or RoR projects that are built on non fish bearing streams and no reservoirs.

Bing bing. Non fish bearing my ass. You think the ashlu is non fish bearing! The whole reason we are going to pay more is bc hydro is obligated to pay these guys triple the price of the legacy projects for the first 5 years and then after that, they get to choose who they sell it to and at what price they sell it! We are giving away our most precious resource, water for nothing!!!

These are not the massive dam and reservoir projects of BC's "heritage" systems such as the G.M. Shrum generating station where the Peace River now begins, capable of pumping out more than 2700 MW at full throttle - by itself a quarter of BC's capacity. But what these new projects don't have in size, they make up in sheer numbers. They are making it up in intrusions into hundreds of undeveloped areas with roads, dams, pipelines, temporary construc­tion camps, and a permanent spiderwork of transmission lines. They are making it up in dozens of issues affecting communities and local governments. And they are more than making it up in creation of phenomenal wealth that will transfer from the pockets of British Co­lumbia's electricity users and run straight into the hands of company shareholders.


Nowhere have local aspirations and corporate pre­sumption collided in such acrimony as they have with Led­cor and its Ashlu Creek Green Power Project. The Ashlu joins the Squamish River about 35 km north of Squamish. It is immensely popular with whitewater kayakers, backroad adventurers, off-road hikers and cross-country skiers, not to mention people who live in the area who simply value it as it is - a non-industrialized wild stream. There also re­mains a concern about the area's importance and vulner­ability as grizzly habitat.

Responding to these values, the SLRD denied a rezon­ing application by Ledcor for the Ashlu project in Janu­ary 2005. The application was resubmitted by Ledcor in December. The board decided to defer a decision pending completion of a regional energy/IPP strategy facilitated by the provincial government.

After that, the axe fell. More correctly, the provincial government brought the axe down on the SLRD and on all local governments in BC, removing their ability to control energy projects by zoning on Crown land within their ju­risdiction.

http://www.watershedsentinel.ca/content/run-river-hydroelectric-projects-bc-create-new-gold-rush

VICTORIA — BC Hydro is on track to lose more than $1 billion over the next four years by paying private companies to generate electricity the province doesn’t need, New Democratic Party energy critic John Horgan said Monday.

“BC Hydro’s fiscal situation is dire,” Horgan told reporters, offering his assessment of numbers released by the Crown corporation last week, which projected an energy surplus for the next 10 years. For the coming year, Horgan pointed out, the surplus will be so large it could power 472,000 homes.

The Sun reported last year that British Columbians paid $676 million for IPP power in the year ending March 31, 2012 — more than twice the price of imported electricity at that time.

http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7917408

It's a setup with the liberals and accenture a us based electric company which owns 25% of bc hydro designed to bankrupt bc hydro so the private sector can take over and the liberals can say "it went bankrupt! We tried to keep it public!" Bullsh!t!!!!!
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Apr 3, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
The whole reason we are going to pay more is bc hydro is obligated to pay these guys triple the price of the legacy projects for the first 5 years and then after that, they get to choose who they sell it to and at what price they sell it! We are giving away our most precious resource, water for nothing!!!

you cannot absolutely cannot compare energy prices from dams built 4 decades ago to new energy services we need now. Further more there is no other customer IPP's can sell to besides BC Hydro

You can quote Horgan if you like, but keep in mind that he is going hard very hard to build new LNG pipelines to Kitimat and is going hard to build many many new mines in NE bc...so he has his reasons to not like IPP

He is your new energy minister by the way, whether you vote for his party or not

IF we dont need the power why are we still looking at site C...

Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Apr 3, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Power plants basically idle at night due to low demand
Baloney.
BC sells hydro power to Alberta during the day & buys it back at night.
Sell high, buy low.
They can do this because dam hydro can be turned on & off easily.
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Apr 3, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
We buy Altas coal power at night because its too expensive for them to shut it down, we have been a net importer of power for over a decade now
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 3, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
A movie made by a local kayaker who was shocked when he found out what they were doing to the Ashlu.


Full Version here
http://www.downstreammedia.net/TheRangeLife/Video/49megawattsweb.mov

Hoser

climber
vancouver
Apr 3, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
So he would rather flood 9000 + hectares of land in the NE?

Folks really need to be careful on what they stand in the way of, because the alternatives may be much worse. Do you really want to continue to buy coal power from Alta?

Wouldnt you rather pay more for green power? Do you buy the cheapest meat and fruit around or do you go organic.

No matter what there will always be a foot print, but we can decide how big that is.

So, NDP will build LNG lines to Kitimat.

THey are now in the process of changing the LNG lines that go east to carry tar sand oil...what happens when they decide to do that here.

Careful for what you wish for, RoR may be a pretty good deal in comparison
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 3, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Since you posted 20 mins later obviously you didn't watch the full video. Killing every stream in this province is not acceptable. Period. No other government in the world would even think of this option. I'm not advocating the other ones. Just saying that selling our water for 5 to 10k a pop is just stupid.

If we didn't sell power, we would be sufficient. Raping our rivers is not the solution.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 3, 2013 - 06:33pm PT
With only 35 million of y'all in the third largest country on earth blessed
with bountiful everything I don't get why y'all aren't all driving Lambos
and pimping big time.
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Apr 3, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
I watched it before mike, unfortunately the new LNG mines require us to find more power.

personally I would rather spread out the demands on our environment by utilizing RoR, wind and solar.

I dont think the LNG path or the major devastation caused by Site C is a good alternative. But with either governments, libs or the NDP we really dont have much choice.

Libs want to cap the carbon tax, for the next 5 years.. that effectively wipes out any new innovation and the NDP what to frack.

So you will get your RoR to stop but in lieu you will get pipelines... at some point RoR and LNG were your choices but since the public poo pooed RoR we get pipelines and fracking...hardly a better alternative and very very far from being green.

Thats why I say, be careful what you stand in the way of...the alternativs may be worse, and in this case I believe they are
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Apr 3, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
With only 35 million of y'all in the third largest country on earth blessed
with bountiful everything I don't get why y'all aren't all driving Lambos
and pimping big time.
Cause our governments give away our resources in back room deals.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Apr 3, 2013 - 07:55pm PT

It's not a fair game when somebody won't play by the rules
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Apr 3, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Hoser,

What gives you faith that the Site C Dam and the various pipeline proposals are an alternate choice ?

What is stopping Site C, etc. from being pursued as a complement to current exploitation ?



Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 3, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ding ding ding!!! Jim wins! Everyone's getting screwed!!! That's how they roll!!! That's Reilly's answer too!!

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Apr 4, 2013 - 12:08am PT
Coal plants never shut down, day or night.

True, large power plants can not be shut down because it takes many hours to bring them back online. That does not mean that they are being used efficiently. They have to keep them running but producing very little power (basically idling). Peaker plants are smaller plants designed to supplement the large power plants during times of high demand, they can be fired up very quickly. The state has a TOU (Time of Use) plan to offer incentives to use power at night at a lower rate. This is a good way to get people to charge electric vehiles between 10 pm and 5 am.

The charts below show the available power and the actual demand for power through the day. You can see the variation in demand. The renewable chart shows renewable resources, solar delivers when it is needed most, wind peaks at night and drops off during the day.

Credit: Jon Beck

Credit: Jon Beck
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 4, 2013 - 12:18am PT
Credit: mouse from merced
Credit: mouse from merced
You need a beer run, eh? But exactly where, please. We're on a budget.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 4, 2013 - 12:39am PT
Shhhhh....

It's not true. It's an "Export A-pril Fool" joke...

You just gotta have hoses, not electric cords, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bliyct4_6o

A different kind of poverty...

Where's my gasoline gone?

The many-colored beast has et it all up.

BC rocks
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2013 - 12:58am PT
At least it was actually called the 'Canuck'. Nyuk, nyuk...
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