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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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The United Arab Emirates, an oil-rich nation, has just completed Shams 1, a 100 MW parabolic trough solar project, currently the largest of its kind in the world. The “world’s largest” title won’t hold for long though - the Ivanpah project in California’s Mojave Desert will come in at 370 MW, and is expected to begin operations this summer.
http://ow.ly/j9CST
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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Ron, already covered that a few pages back. We have learned a lot since Altamont.
http://www.helium.com/items/1720192-the-impact-of-wind-power-on-wildlife
The impact of wind power on wildlife
by M E Skeel
Created on: January 23, 2010 Last Updated: December 05, 2012
Wind power is one of several alternative renewable energy sources that could provide clean, green power in the future. However many people are concerned about the effects of wind turbines on wildlife. In 1981, one of the world's first wind farms was built at Altamont in California. Unfortunately it was sited on a major avian migration route and in an area with high numbers of birds of prey. The blades were long, reached almost to the ground where many birds hunt and turned so quickly that birds did not see them. The unfortunate result was a lot of bird deaths and a lot of bad publicity for wind farms as bird-killing eyesores. On average, Altamont's 4700 turbines kill one bird a year each. This total of 4700 birds is far too many, but this information should be used to build better turbines and take more care in their placement in order to reduce the effect of wind turbines on bird life, rather than using it to stop developing this power source.
There are now plans to build 300 windmills off the coast of New Jersey and a preliminary study by the state Department of Environmental Protection says that previous studies show an offshore wind turbine averages only one or two bird strikes a year. This could mean that these 300 new windmills might cause up to six hundred deaths per year, which is not insignificant. However one needs to put these numbers in perspective. Each year in America, 50 to 100 million birds are killed on the roads. Domestic and feral cats kill 4-5 million birds per year, while collisions with skyscrapers kill another 100 million! In comparison,the impact of wind turbines is quite small. Obviously we have to be very careful when constructing new wind farms to reduce the impact on wildlife, The fact that environmental impact studies are now required prior to building the structures is a hopeful sign. If such studies had been carried out before Altamont was constructed, they would have found that the turbines were being built on major avian migration routes and that might have altered how they were built. Certainly the impacts on wildlife must be considered when planning locations and designs for wind farms.
This can significantly reduce the number of birds that are killed, because the birds can see the blades turning. There are also smaller wind turbines in production for home use. We bought and installed one last year. It looks like an airplane on a stick and functions much like a wind sock with propellors. The blades are small and spin at a speed that leaves them quite visible. When wind gusts are so strong that the blades would be spinning so fast as to be invisible, the tail turns sideways and shuts the turbine down for its own protection. The result is that we have not seen even one bird strike in the year that this turbine has been active and have generated a significant amount of power for our domestic use. Our little wind turbine is also quite aesthetically pleasing to look at and is not an eyesore.
There is evidence that bats can also be killed by wind turbines but this can be ameliorated by not activating the turbines at dusk and dawn when the bats are active. This is another area where pre-construction environmental impact studies can point to potential risks to wildlife and find solutions to reduce the impact of the wind farms.
To keep all this in perspective one also needs to look at the impact of using fossil fuels on wildlife. Coal is now mined in the Appalachians by mountain top removal. How many millions of birds, mammals and reptiles are killed by this process? Burning fossil fuels also exacerbates global warming and climate change which could cause widespread species losses, not only of birds and bats but many other species. What is the cost to wildlife if we don't build wind farms and develop solar power and other renewable energy sources? It could be much, much higher.
Information sources:
http://blog1.andreamcdowell.com/2010/01/17/altamont- wind-pass-and-bird-mortality/
http://www.salon.com/news/environment/feature/2009/0 4/08/walking/print.html
http://www.savewesternny.org/wildlife.html
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/opinion/editorial s/article_16789f76-a870-5505-bd0e-fc562f0afcb2.html
_
Altamont was an exercise in poor planning and no proper EIS. Now it is the bird killing poster child of the Oil & Coal lobby's efforts to discredit renewable sources of energy. We learn, we grow, we improve. Or we go all Deep Horizon and Three Mile Island.
In the 70s there were extensive studies and modifications made to high tension power transmission lines because of bird of prey electrocutions. Not so much of a problem anymore.
These issues are addressable once heads are taken out of the sand.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 19, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
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Windpower has killed a lot of people in this country too. Way more than nuclear has.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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Chaz, tell us more about these fatal blow jobs?
Are you considering the long term cancer deaths suffered by nuclear workers?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
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Philo,
I'm not saying because something's dangerous that it's automatically disqualified.
What's being pointed out here is green energy harms the environment and kills people too, just like most other energy sources.
Green energy is no better than anything else, but it is different. Which fits well with the thinking of people who believe everything that's been proven to work needs to be scrapped, and be replaced with something that sounds good.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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Green energy is no better than anything else, but it is different. Which fits well with the thinking of people who believe everything that's been proven to work needs to be scrapped, and be replaced with something that sounds good.
Might just be the silliest post of the month.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
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Philo, hate to break it to you but the Tesla is a lemon. They claim over
300 miles per charge but no independent has gotten more than about 160. A
friend is about to get one but she is like a lot of all-electric car buyers -
she can afford to be a poseur.
And how many millions has Tesla gotten from the guvmint? Wasn't it $465 MILLION
to build a really expensive car that only the Hollywood poseurs can afford?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
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The Tesla is hardly a lemon. The Chevy Volt probably is but the Tesla, not so much. Since the average commuter drives less that 50 miles a day 160 mile range seems not to bad.
The technology is being improved constantly. Or should we just let the Corporate Oil-garchy keep suppressing technological innovation in favor of the unsustainable status quo?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
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Wind energy and wildlife
http://www.noblepower.com/faqs/wind-energy-environment.html
Wind energy is good for the environment, which means it's good for the wildlife that rely on the environment for survival. Air pollution and habitat destruction from the production, transportation, and combustion of fossil fuels in conventional power plants kills many more birds than wind turbines ever will. According to the National Audubon Society, climate change and habitat destruction are two of the biggest threats to bird populations, and so the Audubon Society supports responsibly-sited windparks.
Responsibly-sited wind turbines do not kill large numbers of birds, either in absolute or relative terms. Nationwide, collisions with wind turbines kill about 1/100th of 1% (0.0001%) of all birds killed annually due to human activity, compared with collisions with buildings and windows, which are responsible for about 55% of annual bird deaths. Even housecats represent a far greater threat to birds than windparks. About 10% of bird deaths are due to housecats — in the U.S. alone, some estimates put the number birds killed by housecats at ONE BILLION per year! Wind energy is pollution free and preserves open spaces, and presents much less of a threat to wildlife than other sources of energy —
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
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Philo, get a paper bag, and don't dance around the issues. If you're a man
of the people how do you justify the guvmint subsidizing a rich man's car
that doesn't do what it is supposed to do? They will never produce more
than a few thousand of them for the Hollywood poseurs, if they stay out of
bankruptcy. That is not a wise use of our money.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
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So far, we've documented one dead golden eagle.
Where's that?
Talk about the tip of an enormous iceberg.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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They will never produce more than a few thousand Hmmm, not according this.
And check the dateline.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/teslas-factory-reaches-20000-model-s-year-run-rate.html
Tesla Reaches 20,000 Unit Production Rate Annually for Model S
Michael Graham Richard
Transportation / Cars
January 30, 2013
© Tesla
Big Milestone
Tesla keeps proving the skeptics wrong. For years we've heard all kinds of arguments explaining why they couldn't possibly succeed, and why they wouldn't deliver what they promised, how the auto industry was too hard to break into, etc. From the first promo pics of the Tesla Roadster in July 2006 to now, every time Tesla hits a new milestone, the naysayers go something like: "Well, they did this thing, but they won't get to this next thing." So I'll be curious to see what they'll come up with now that its been revealed that Tesla's factory has now reached its goal of producing Model S electric sedans at a rate of 20,000 a year, or 400 a week.
This is a big deal because economies of scale; that is, the more you make of something, the less it costs you per unit because you can amortize your fixed costs over more products and you have more bargaining power with your suppliers. This is a big part of Tesla's strategy. It'll also help clear their backlog of orders, which have piled up to around 13,000-15,000, and promise faster deliveries to new customers (some people might be deciding against the Model S because of the long waiting lists).
© Tesla
Another change is that so far, Tesla has only been making the more expensive top-of-the-line 85kWh model. It will now have the production capacity to start making 60kWh models too, filling some of those orders.
The company is also working hard on the Model X release, which should happen in mid to late 2014. Automotive News reports:
The Model X development is undergoing the transformation from the functional initial prototype that was unveiled last year to a production-ready prototype. The company will be making final decisions on the interior and exterior dimensions of the car in the first quarter of 2013, Musk said in an interview.
A key part of the Model X will be its dual-motor all-wheel drive system, which Musk predicted would give the crossover "the best road handling of any car in the world." (source)
And after that the next step will be a new model based on a third platform, closer in size to a BMW 3 and with a price around 30,000-35,000. This should be released in 3-4 years, and could be a major breakthrough for electric cars in my opinion, especially if the Supercharger network of fast-charging stations that provide free power grows all around the country and the world.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Mar 19, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
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Phil, I got to get up close and personal with one of those new Teslas here in Silicon Beach, sure charged my battery. Got to say, if I win the Mega Millions, I'm getting one.
Now, I wonder how much my payments would be if I trade in my 2000 Isuzu Rodeo........(which I hardly ever drive since I mostly walk, take the bus, or cruise in my wife's Hyundai).
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
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Philo, you quote treehugger.com, I get my info from LA Times and The Economist.
You might find it hard to believe but we're actually on the same side here.
I just think it stinks to subsidize a rich man's car. And, like I said, the
car mags and LA Times, rather notoriously lefty most would agree, have not
reviewed the car's range in a good light.
And they are in serious financial straits although I'm sure Elon will pull
a rabbit, or at least some cash, out of his hat.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
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I posted one of the first of millions of similar articles. Do I need to post more?
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=tesla+production&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
The Tesla will not be a "rich mans" car. If it were how do you explain the sales and back orders?
Virtually all the so called "talking points" used by the nay-sayers of "Green" renewable energies are corporate propaganda created, promoted and paid for by the Koch Brothers. No vested interest there eh?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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$90,000 isn't a rich man's car? Man, I want to live in your world!
Tesla results renew worries about its long-term viability
Tesla posts revenue of $306 million, larger-than-expected loss
"In an New York Times article titled “Stalled out on Tesla’s Electric Highway,” reporter John Broder detailed a recent trip from suburban Washington to Connecticut in a Model S. The goal was to test the feasibility of a road trip by using Tesla’s new Supercharging stations in Delaware and Connecticut.
Yet Broder ran into difficulties with the car’s range, which were exacerbated by cold weather. After he left the car overnight without plugging it in, the Model S ended the trip on the back of a flatbed truck."
Review: Tesla's electric Model S is a truly competitive premium sedan
"The trouble is that repeated demonstrations of the car's prodigious power utterly destroy its range. Tesla says this model will go 300 miles on a single charge. The EPA puts that number at 265 miles. Over four days of testing the car, we managed only about 160 miles in heavy-footed driving.
All Model S's will charge through a 120V or 240V outlet. Tesla says the former needs roughly 46 hours to recharge fully, while the latter needs eight to 10 hours. Buyers can reduce these times by adding a second on-board charger for $1,500 and buying a high-power wall connector for $1,200."
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Mar 19, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
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Yes the original Tesla Poadster had a $90,000.00 sticker price.
The S and X models will be comparatively more affordable.
Much like the original HP hand held calculators cost many hundreds of dollars.
Once HP recovered their research and development costs the price point plummeted.
Same will occur with the Tesla.
In the future you won't have "charging stations. You will pull into the station and in the time it takes to fill a gas tank they will drop and replace the battery pack.
As much as I love two seater sports cars I am very excited about the upcoming Tesla X.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 19, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
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Well this question seems to indicate that you think that there is only one way to do things.
Not at all, infact it seams by your arguments: you think things should only be set up one way
What would be wrong with electric vehicles charged on solar energy? [\quote]
Nothing wrong with that, unless we must pay more.
Do we have to be enslaved to the internal combustion engine simply because it is the technology we have now? [\quote]
Not at all, but show me something better... by that I mean something that works better and thats cheaper.
As to your other question, grow up!
It's unfair to ask questions that one can't answer....
Dude- the bottom line for me is this: In a free market what works best will take over. Our government deciding winners/loosers will most likley give us a looser.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 19, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
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Philo, I don't harbor any animosity against Tesla and Elon is certainly one
smart cookie. I am just butt-hurt the guvmint didn't give me a loan for my
company. Hey, it was green, too. Well, some of the wood we got was pretty
green sometimes. But you catch my drift. Cheers and I'll keep y'all up on
my friend's Tesla, when she gets it. She's getting pretty antsy after
forking over a pile of cash lo these many months ago.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 19, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
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The future could've been so awesome EVERY DANG DAY!
I predicted this...
:]
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