Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
Its far more important kids have white teeth instead of a high IQ, evidentally at least in the US. Its illegal to put on the water in much of the rest of the world.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
Its far more important kids have white teeth instead of a high IQ, evidentally at least in the US. Its illegal to put on the water in much of the rest of the world.
It isn't a yes/no situation. It is a false assumption to say that you cannot have dental benefits without any other effects. Don't parrot what others say when it is illogical or weak unless you have claimed that you eat Fl by the box full and are trying to make a point!
Rilley, none is absorbed. I'll clarify my previous post for you. The Fl has a chemical reaction with your enamel creating a compound that is more resistant to acid erosion than regular enamel.
There are 2 ways to do this.
Ingest Fl in water or pills.
This creates the super enamel from the differentiating dental lamina.
Apply Fl topically. Fl varnish or Fl trays. Toothpaste. Drinking water.
This changes the enamel in a thin layer on your teeth.
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
Not sure about IQ but look at the studies of the communities that do not add fluoride tot he water. Tooth decay in the state of Hawaii is off the charts. It certainly works to prevent tooth decay, no doubt about it. That being said, what was I saying?
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
Studies? Just look at the DMFT ratios (go through dental charts) at offices in the areas you want to 'study'. Simple and quick - but you actually have to 'study', go count in charts vs. googling.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I lived in west Texas towns as a kid where people had brown teeth from all the floride in the water (it does Not make your whiter). There were whole counties out there without a dentist. I myself am 68 years old and I've only ever had one cavity and that in a wisdom tooth which formed after we moved out of the area. Checkups included, I haven't spent more than $500 on my teeth in my whole life - all thanks to Mother Nature. My teeth are not as white as most peoples but not brown either.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
Jan,
Fl helps the teeth at 1ppm. Starts to cause fluorosis at 4-10 ppm.
Fluorosis definition in real life results is this:
A progression that starts with
White mottling (spots, lines near the CEJ, etc)
Continues from white to brown, then dark brown when you ingest Fl in a concentration that is like having 30 beers a night. It would kill you if it were Tylenol, Alcohol or many other things people overdose on with only double or triple the regular dose.
Most people would use you as an example as to how fluoride works. It was obvious that there was Fl in the water you were drinking as your teeth were developing. You said so yourself, and the brown mottling would give it away anyway.
Your wisdom teeth develop later in your teens, so if I were to guess, I would say you moved away before you were 18 since it is the only one you got a cavity on? Possibly. The second most common reason is deep fissures on the occlusal surface coupled with lack of access.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Going without fluorides gives you cavities right away. Using fluoride may allow you to be more intelligent, but way down the road. So if you are impatient by nature you go for the cavities.
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
Studly,
I'm a shill for reasonable, educated knowledge. What I find is a lot of people seemingly 'discovering' science in 2013 - usually from some loopy website. Should we tell them that it has been around since before they were goofing off in high school?
You need a base of science and understanding of how research works before you can evaluate arguments which can be 100% logical, but wrong because they are based on falsehoods. You will fall for it because they are teaching you the 'facts' and then building the argument on that. You don't know the facts in the first place, and you can't disagree with the logic, so you buy it, hook, line and sinker.
Like I have said before, this Fl issue is a first-world problem with uneducated people who learn 'science' from conspiracy nuts. This will only worsen until the education situation in the US quits declining.
My most profitable family has been the local natropath and his kids. I guess cavities are natural!
EDIT: case in point
9) No health agency in fluoridated countries is monitoring fluoride exposure or side effects.
This point is made why? If government agencies quit monitoring climbing would you cease to climb? If they quit monitoring your e-mails would you think e-mails were bad?
11) Benefit is topical not systemic.
False. But if you don't know the truth already, you would most likely fall for their logic.
15)
In addition, research has repeatedly found fluoridation to be ineffective at preventing the most serious oral health problem facing poor children, namely “baby bottle tooth decay,” otherwise known as early childhood caries
No reasonable person who understands 'baby bottle tooth decay' would expect it to be prevented. They keep their mouths shut when it comes to how much it has been improved, but instead make an apparent argument for the total elimination of the disease. Mothers are putting their babies to bed with bottles to suck on. Unless it has water in it, cavities will be a much more common result than not regardless of anything else you do to affect the situation.
Almost every point I have read so far is assuming that fluoridation is the only factor in decay disease and so should react as such.
**16) Tooth decay does not go up when fluoridation is stopped.
17) Tooth decay was coming down before fluoridation started.**
If you believed that, you will believe most of those points without even looking up the research to see what was really going on.
If you believe their point 11, you can believe point 16. You will see through it if you know the truth.
I like the argument about other countries not fluoridating their water.
They neglect to state that in many countries with poor public water systems, that they add Fl to salt in the country or some other method which have always decreased the DMFT rate.
But if you took their argument at face value, without any knowledge of your own, there is no logical reason not to believe it.
Should I keep going?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
You shouldn't have to keep going on, Tooth.
You are writing reasonable, scientific things, in opposition to "junk science"
the article in HP is unbelievable junk.
This is the reasoning: Something at very high dosages is toxic, so obviously, that same thing at low dosages must ALSO be toxic.
Example: dihydrogen monoxide is often added to municipal water. In high dosages, it causes more deaths than any other chemical. Should the lower dosages added to municipal water be eliminated? Should it be banned from being sold/supplied to the public?
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
The Harvard study is not a study on the fluoridation of water supplies in the US or anywhere else. And, as stated, Mercola is a crank and huckster who is way more dangerous than fluoride will ever be. He also preys on folks with low IQs so you'd think he'd be all for fluoride in industrial quantities if it were true that municipal levels were dangerous.
|
|
TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
|
|
Example: dihydrogen monoxide is often added to municipal water. In high dosages, it causes more deaths than any other chemical. Should the lower dosages added to municipal water be eliminated? Should it be banned from being sold/supplied to the public? And if those conspiracy freaks ever found out that the military is stockpiling vast quantities of DHM...
TE
|
|
Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
|
|
Hey Tooth,
I am just going off what a very good friend of mine has told me or sent to me. She has been a practicing dentist in Hawaii for 25+years. When I had children of my own, I relied on the info she referred me to not the google stuff you are inaccurately assuming I am referencing.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
so obviously, that same thing at low dosages must ALSO be toxic.
Accumulative becomes the point in low dosage.
Over a period of time.
Years of exposure will accumulate within your body along with all the other toxins modern industrialized societies expose themselves to over the years.
Accumulative is the key ......
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
Do you like drinking tea? Been drinking it for years? If so, you've likely been exposing yourself to higher levels of flouride than you'd get from municipal water treatment. You should consider refocusing the action network on banning tea - incredibly bad stuff.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Accumulative becomes the point in low dosage.
Over a period of time.
Years of exposure will accumulate within your body along with all the other toxins modern industrialized societies expose themselves to over the years.
Accumulative is the key ......
Really? So you advocate that repetitive consumption of dihydrogen monoxide leads to the buildup of toxic levels?
|
|
Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
|
|
could always read the journal article...
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
|
|
yer gonna die.
Quit trippin' on stupid stuff. Communists should be your real worries.
Carry on.
|
|
FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
|
|
|
Feb 15, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
|
So it's not me it's the water. Really I'm not this dumb.
I should have listened to guyman --- drink beer, stay away from the water.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!