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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Rockermike: I may have ingested Fluoride in my water from time to time, but my IQ is still high enough to recognize the photograph you're using in your avatar pic. It's a shot I took of my buddy Lester a few years ago.
Funny thing though, it says "Credit: rockermike" below it.
You might want to do something about that.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I could never figure out why my municipality is so concerned with my teeth. Why not add vitamins to the water? I started thinking about this issue last year when I went on a haz mat spill at the water treatment plant in Sylmar. The spill was fluoride that was to be added to the water. Full haz mat suits were required and that got me thinking about what I have been drinking. Then two months ago I went on a call where a house was burglarized that was being fumigated with Sodium Fluoride. Again we had to suit up to prevent exposure.
My concern since these incidents is how do you dose the amount your taking in?
If it makes your teeth strong I am ok administering topically but what are the long term effects internally? What does it do to soft tissue?
I'm already just a dumb fireman, I can't afford to lose anymore IQ points.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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RockerM - did you read that paper? The one linked in your link.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
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sorry Ghost - I didn't really remember where I got that photo, and on my side I don't see any credit one way or another, unless I dig through three layers of screens. Never realized it claimed anything about the avatar photo. But I have always identified with Mt. Goats. ha --- anyway I fixed it.
No, I didn't read the paper, I read the article. everything else is frivolous detail. ha I take it you read the paper and come to different conclusions from the Huffington guy?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I've heard that exposure may prematurely age you, the eighteen yr old in the red hat was unavailable for comment;
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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RockerM - did you read that paper? The one linked in your link.
i think we all know that "no," is the correct answer to that question. he read that piece of crap article by joseph mercola and then went one up on mercola's carp.
mercola is a supplement salesman and an irresponsible hack.
we've known for awhile that we need more epidemiological work on flouride. but since flourise concentrations in water in most industrial countires averages less than 1ml/l, the authors of the literature review had to review studies from china, where concentrations can be much higher. they fund several studies in which poor areas in rural china, that have unusually high flouride levels in the water, also have lower than average iq scores among children. needless to say, that is not exactly the finding that mercola is spraying about.
anyone trying to get their science from the huffpo pretty much deserves what he gets.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
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Take your refutations to the editor. I'm just the messenger. lol
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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this is what I'm wondering about treating water in Haiti. We plan to use chlorine, but it is hazardous to handle in most forms. Should we try something else to kill the stuff in the water based on the fact that in concentrated doses it is too strong to handle?
Basically, if it is bad in extremely high concentrations, is it bad in every concentration? Alcohol? Has Harvard done a study on the effect of that and IQ at any given concentration?
Is it possible that something like Niacin is useful to our bodies at one concentration, but can become harmful when ingested at a high enough concentration?
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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I think they put fluoride in to make teeth stronger, I don't think it has anything to do with purification. Here in Davis there is a ballot battle going on over their water system. Some want to mix river water into the current well supply - then purify with an ozone process. Don't know anything more then that about it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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No worries.
The moment just prior to the picture, when Lester literally dropped out of the sky from about 20 feet up, was something I'll never forget. Took more points off my IQ than any amount of Fluoride ever could. Ruined my underwear, too.
Happy to have you use it.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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They put fluoride in to turn enamel hydroxyapatite into fluorapatite. The second is wayyyy harder to cut through with acid. Thus, much less work for dentists.
There are so many new grads nowdays who need work since the old guys' retirements crashed in '08 and aren't retiring. So the trend of not fluoridating water is working out well for everyone.
Cheers!
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 3, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
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I'll take 5 IQ points for 5 cavities anytime. lol
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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If you can avoid 5 cavities at 1ppm but may loose 5 IQ points at 100ppm, would it be reasonable to say that the ED50/LD50 is quite safe?
The equivalent in alcohol is saying 3 drinks/hr gets you buzzed, 300 gives you brain damage, and to equate things further, 3000 would give you alcohol poisoning.
We know that it takes far fewer drinks to harm you than that, so the ED50/LD50 of alcohol is much, much, much less safe.
I'm trying to put it in perspective with something people are familiar with so they don't sound so comical when they talk about fluoride!
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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I can choose to drink alcohol but am being forced to drink fluoridated water.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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I can choose to drink alcohol but am being forced to drink fluoridated water.
I agree. It should be a choice.
It is interesting to see that there was Fl naturally occurring in the well we just drilled in Haiti. Do you know how many areas in the US have natural FL in the well water that is above the 1ppm that is added to water (in the 60% of the US that does it?)?
The CDC says 4% of well water is above 1ppm. And 'virtually all' that they have tested has some concentration of Fl in it. I have never read a water test from a well that doesn't have some in it, Canada, US or Haiti.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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The article is full of lies. But since it is printed online, feel free to believe them!
nocuous industrial waste
In reality it happens to be an element on the periodic table and an element in earth's crust present in all water.
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OR
Trad climber
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mercola is a supplement salesman and an irresponsible hack.
Yes sir he is. Thanks for pointing that out.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sadly, I live in a community where we do not have fluoridated drinking water and they are keeping it closer to pure. Shouldn't my 91 year old mother be forced to drink it so that she can keep the false teeth she's had for 17 years in good condition? It's just too difficult to give kids the little tablets to chew in school, and it's just wrong to ask parents to have their kids teeth coated at the dentists. It's just wrong to even slightly inconvenience people or to ask them to take responsibility to do this themselves. We should make it mandatory for all, even people without teeth. It's for their own good, and they are too stupid to do it themselves. People don't know whats good for them or are too stupid, slothful and lazy to do it themselves so mamma and pappa big government should cram it down their throats.
Besides, for my community it's only going to cost 5 million dollars to set up the system and then yearly payments of a tad over a million to keep it going. We have not other use for that money.
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