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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
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Micronut, I think I understand what you mean when you say "lusty", which I interpret as just the pursuit of premature adulthood, which is often perceived or presented as precocious sexuality. I've always figured that we're old for a lot longer than we are young, and there's no need to encourage kids to grow up any faster than they have to.
We managed to do this without homeschooling, and our 21 year old daughter is a fine example, but I do sympathize with your concern. And hey, I'm as secular as the day is long, so you don't have to have a religious life to be concerned.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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QITNL, HaHaHa! Me too, only it was me mum so it was worse. But check this out -
when I got to 7th grade she started having me come in to her 4th grade
classes to do presentations on archaeology and paleontology!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 26, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
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Reilly...Then you started your own biker gang in Daytona Beach...
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jan 26, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
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Reilly ... then you started presenting on the SuperT ... 2432 photos worth the last time I checked
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Jan 27, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
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Hey Micro,
I just wanted to clarify because after re-reading my post it may not have been clear. On the religion issue obviously you are free to believe whatever you want. My issue is that claiming intelligent design is science is an inaccurate portrayal of both science and religion. Intelligent design is not good science, its inductive versus deductive reasoning and its a vain attempt to use the scientific process to validate religious beliefs. Religion is by nature a matter of faith and regardless of the so called "evidence" you still have to choose to believe until Jesus decides to sit down with Oprah and tell all. On the other hand any good scientist will tell you that science can't address or answer questions about the supernatural. Religion can't answer questions of science and science can't answer questions of religion. This isn't to say that a scientist can't have faith but if they approach science with a desire to reinforce their faith then they are biased to begin with and their results are likely to be questionable. Intelligent design has a specific agenda they are trying to prove and based on almost just that fact alone their claims are scientifically questionable.
Dan
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Jan 27, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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In our district (Boulder Valley) kids can be home schooled AND attend classes at public schools, and play on sports teams. As a Spanish teacher, I get home schooled kids from time to time, and I have to say, in all cases, they have been fine. Good kids, and don't seem behind at all socially or academically. I also think it's a huge committment to do it right, but then so is sending your kid to any kind of school...parental involvement should be a priority for, well, parents! :-)That is the bottom line, ultimately...........
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
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Dan,
I disagree with you here. You wrote "but if they approach science with a desire to reinforce their faith then they are biased to begin with".
I approach science with the scientific method and a desire to take evidence and "see what's around the next bend."
I thoroghly enjoy steeping myself in the scientific world and still living a life committed to the Christian faith as a humble servant of the grace given to me each and every day. My thesis on fractal patterns in nature (specifically the bony trabecular pattern in the human mandible) was an in depth look at several disciplines in the field of science, from anatomy to microbiology to chemistry and physics. I had a lot of great mentors and advisors during the project, most of whom were areligious, but we still hashed out the science together as fellow scientists.
At the end of the day, they believed in happenstance and I believed in a creator who is interested in us.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Jan 27, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
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…. you mean aside from its cult status? ...
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sempervirens
climber
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Jan 27, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
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Good thread Micronut.
I myself am not religous. I don't see a reason why science and religion must be in conflict. Science hasn't answered the ultimate question; it doesn't directly address the ultimate question. Why not keep your ultimate beliefs and engage in scientific curiosity.
There are of course Christian Darwinists.
Also there is no need IMO for religion to oppose science and take the bible literally. In many cases the fundamentalists have other motives, money, politics, greed, control. Religion is all too effective at controlling society. Isn't that part of why religion is what it is. If God exists then religion has no reason to fear the loss of God. Perhaps there is a fear of losing control and wealth.
Whoops, supposed to be about education here. Sorry for the drift.
Anyway, good on you homeschoolers for doing all that work to ensure the kids turn out so well. That earns my respect.
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Matt
Trad climber
it's all turtles, all the way dooowwwwwnn!!!!!
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Jan 27, 2013 - 09:11pm PT
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Matt,
When I say "lusty", I'm not talking about anything new. Its your typical Fast Times at Ridgemont High out there. Always has been. From Fast Times to Dazed and Confused to whatever movie kids are watching these days, teenagers haven't changed.
I am not arguing the point, nor am I arguing that there are influences in public schools to be managed and mitigated. I am just saying that MOST people wouldn't choose that word (lusty) to describe other school children, and you did. Also, you home school your kids. Together, those two facts invite assumption, that's all I'm saying...
Cheers,
-Matt
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jan 27, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
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Why can't you just save this stuff for church or pm Cragman and compare notes about your obviously gifted children?
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
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Bruce,
Maybe I don't understand your angle. (and is there a typo in there? Did you mean you are not convinced the two are NOT incompatible?)
What might I need to "reject" in order to be a good scientist and a committed Christian? Believing in heaven and hell, the inherrent brokenness of man, and the need for a savior does not make a disulfide bond any stronger, betalactamase any less efficient of an enzyme...... nor does it make dark matter any less mysterious.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
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Kenny,
My kids aint gifted. They're not even that good lookin. But they sure do have a lot of fun. You sound kinda jealous.
You sound like you need a hug.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
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Standing your ground in antiquated theological doctrines is nothing to be proud of. Not if you're a militant Islamicist. Nor if you're a pick n choose "moderate" Christian.
One's traditional belief in heaven and hell or the work and love of the Holy Spirit or in a virgin birth may be beyond the purview of science (as is the Flying Spaghetti Monster) but it's certainly not beyond the purview of reason - and the value judgment of what's reasonable - esp after one takes into account everything the modern age knows about human functioning at large.
So-called "moderate" religious people are the shade under which fundamentalists take refuge. This should be something serious to mull over. In these times especially.
To pick a few: Exorcism is antiquated belief. A Virgin Birth is antiquated belief. The long-standing religious claim that there is a "ghost in the machine" is an antiquated claim. Remove these fundamentals from Christian dogma (not as myths or metaphors but as literals) and what's left? Not much. Certainly not much left to support intellectually.
A science edu leads to one model for how the world works. A traditional Abrahamic education whether Christian or Islamic leads to another. They're hardly compatible unless one holds them in two different categories of mind. To do that is now popularly called "cognitive dissonance." Why would anyone in the modern 21st century want to maintain such a state rather than grow beyond it.
If a 21st century homeschooler's kids are really smart, curious about how their world works, interested in having a science edu that's coherent long term, he or she - presumably interested in the highest edu standards the century provides - should be prepared to answer questions such at these and not shirk them.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
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Cragman...You're going to get home schooled on the local ice so what are you doing here..? RJ
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
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High Fructose: I've intensely studied the bible for most of my 27 years, and I'm almost done with grad school as an ecology and evolution major, and I can say that it all fits beautifully and leads to one place. But this belongs on another thread, or another website. And it's an argument I usually avoid because nobody wins, but I couldn't help it. Not many people are familiar with both sides.
oops, thread drift!
Homeschooling was great for my family, but it's not for everyone.
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
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You sound kinda jealous. O.K.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
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No, none of this is thread drift.
In this day and age esp, these issues or topics should be asked, they should come up at some point in the process or even many times. If not, I would question just how complete or thorough the home-schooling was.
Limpingcrab,
No.
No.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 27, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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Bruce,
I see what you're saying now that I re-read your post.
I'm typing on an iphone right now, this dialogue would be so much better in person. I'm kinda forumed out.
Limpincrab, thanks for your thoughtful contributions to the conversation. See you around the gym or Tollhouse or the high country this spring. Lets rope up soon.
I'll check in later. Fructose, thanks for your concern for my kids education and well being.
Over and out for the weekend,
Scott
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Jan 27, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
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-A dumbed down Calif. Curriculum
-A worldview shaped by lusty, lazy classmates
Sorry if I find statements like these insulting. Maybe If I lived in Fresno I would feel the same way. But I never would and I don't need a hug but thank's anyway
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