"The giant gaping hole in Sandy Hook reporting"

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 21 - 40 of total 69 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 9, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
What about all those Nazis, Jews and ditches? I guess all the Germans were on SSRIs.
Wait, Wounded Knee anyone? The US Cavalry was on SSRIs too?
My Lai?
Oh sorry, I forgot those were all sanctioned sporting events.

Survival, I don't think anyone here claimed psychotropic meds are the root of all the evil men do. To compare people experiencing violent psychotic breaks to Nazis is foolish.

The question is were they part of the cause of the recent mass killings?

The companies themselves have already come out with clear admissions of severe and almost absurdly dangerous side effects.

For about a month after the Newtown killings I saw not ONE head-related pharma advertisement on TV except for boner meds....

If you cannot see that billions of dollars are at stake here, and the complete lack of an organized investigation into the medications, then do a little research yourself.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 9, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
If you cannot see that billions of dollars are at stake here, and the complete lack of an organized investigation into the medications, then do a little research yourself.

The FDA has done plenty of investigation, and I'm quite certain investigation continues. The side effects of SSRI's are very well-known, and almost all physicians are careful for that reason. It's a matter of risk management. Yes, there will be some bad side effects. The question is whether the side effects are worse than the effects of not medicating.

John
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 9, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
....and almost all physicians are careful for that reason....

I wish that were true John but it's not from what I've experienced or the near parabolic rate of handing these powerful meds out.

It seems like you've got a good support system around you which is great. You're also intelligent and introspective. Most people are not.

Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 9, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
Philo, that is a very interesting point. Must put on the boob thread.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Been to a lot of psychiatrists over the last 40 years, eh?

Not one. But I do work with a lot of psychiatrists, many of whom complain loud and long about the indiscriminate dispensing of psychotropic drugs to patients as if masking an emotional problem with chemicals does anything to cure their underlying mental problems. Every teacher notices that kids with ADD come from conflicted dysfunctional families, but it's a lot cheaper and more convenient to dose pupils with ADD than to address the fundamental social problems behind their symptoms. We're just not prepared as a society to reallocate our resources to really solve the problem at the family and street levels. Would cut into the profit margin for sure.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
in the 60s ADD was indeed cured by a BBITB (big boot in the butt). I had it in elementary school but was cured via a swift paddle to the hiney a few times. CURED i tell ya. Model student afterwards.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
It's cheaper and they make more money to alter your mind then to fix the problem.

When I moved out of my parents' house at 13 because I didn't want to be around alcohol, my grandmother made me go see a few psychologists. The one that I first saw, I didn't want to talk to. All I said was I'm happier now than there, and I didn't need to be around the alcohol. She was angry, and was very rude, kept telling me to stop being a brat and listen to my parents. She was a Kaiser Psychologist. I was insured. She prescribed me after 20 minutes to Prozak.

After a week of taking it I felt horrible. Couldn't think. Felt cloudy. Mood swings. I stopped it.

The second I saw, was a private party. I was a husband and wife, both psychologists, both lived and operated out of the same house. They saw I was normal, and said see ya, good luck, if you need anything just call. $125 hour visits.

Over-prescribing of medications to anyone is an epidemic. Not guns.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
To compare people experiencing violent psychotic breaks to Nazis is foolish.
But not as foolish as Alex Jones claiming on TV that ALL mass shooters were on these drugs. Did you not see my post that listed so many examples of mass shootings that had nothing to do with SSRIs? No, I don't mean the Nazi/Wounded Knee quip.
abrams

Sport climber
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Can we hope that 2012 was the end of the gun free zones? There should not be any place where a nutjob can attempt mass murder where he cannot expect someone to pull a concealed carry and send return fire.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 9, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
i got"depressed" over,, yeah,, a female back in 96 just after my Dad passed away.. They prescribed me paxil then went to prozac, with NO effects on my mood what so ever. I finally trashed those pills and got me a few doobies and cured my depression the natural way. The less inhibited thoughts allowed me to again see the beauty in a rock or trees or anything really. And perhaps dulled the mental pain of the past. I know those pillz werent doing the trick.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 9, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
The side effects of SSRI's are very well-known, and almost all physicians are careful for that reason.

Unfortunately that's not what I have seen. GPs are prescribing them with very little knowledge and providing very little education to their patients. I know two people who were prescribed the wrong SSRIs and it made their problems WAY worse. They later switched to the correct SSRI for their chemistry and they did much better, but they were lucky. It could have been a very bad situation for either of them if they continued on the wrong meds. These meds should only be prescribed by psychiatrists but there aren't enough psychiatrists around unfortuneatly.

If you have someone who is borderline psychotic and they are put on the wrong meds for them I could easily see it leading to a horrific situation.
Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Jan 9, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
That's the point, Ron, the psychotropic drugs don't really work, but they do make it easier for parents, teacher and social workers to "manage" problem children while they're "under the influence". A lot of people are worrying out loud these days about the long-term effects on students who have been regularly dosed on Ritalin for years just to make it easier for "professionals" to control and manage them in the classroom and elsewhere.

And, of course, there's always the example of Winston Churchill whose mother was a professional beauty (i.e. high-class whore with tons of younger BFs) and a dad sick to death in the head with syphilis. Young Winnie was carted off to private schools so he didn't interfere with his mother's trysts while his father slowly went crazy and died. Winston kept writing pathetic letters to his parents crying to see his mom and meet with his dad for approval. No such luck! And Winston grew up to become PM and lead the free-world in a crusade against Hitler and the Nazis. Of course, Winnie was a raging alcoholic who was haunted by depression all his life, something he called his "black beast". Obsessive-compulsive over-achievers often accomplish a lot while they wrestle with depression and alcoholism. That's not to say they have a world of fun!
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
How can an anti-depressant that causes people to kill themselves work?
....
hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
gaping hole: our culture has run far amok in many ways. report that
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
side effects of Paxil:



For the Consumer

Applies to paroxetine: oral suspension, oral tablet, oral tablet extended release

Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction while taking paroxetine (the active ingredient contained in Paxil) skin rash or hives; difficulty breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.

Report any new or worsening symptoms to your doctor, such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

Call your doctor at once if you have a serious side effect such as:

unusual bone pain or tenderness, swelling or bruising;
easy bruising, unusual bleeding (nose, mouth, vagina, or rectum), coughing up blood;
agitation, hallucinations, fever, fast heart rate, overactive reflexes, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, feeling unsteady, loss of coordination, fainting;
very stiff (rigid) muscles, high fever, sweating, confusion, fast or uneven heartbeats, tremors, overactive reflexes, feeling like you might pass out;
headache, trouble concentrating, memory problems, weakness, confusion, hallucinations, fainting, seizure, shallow breathing or breathing that stops; or
severe skin reaction -- fever, sore throat, swelling in your face or tongue, burning in your eyes, skin pain, followed by a red or purple skin rash that spreads (especially in the face or upper body) and causes blistering and peeling.
Less serious side effects of paroxetine may include:

mild headache, drowsiness, dizziness, sleep problems (insomnia), feeling restless or nervous;
mild nausea, constipation, weight changes;
decreased sex drive, impotence, or difficulty having an orgasm; or
dry mouth, yawning, or ringing in your ears.
This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects.
DanaB

climber
CT
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
Ron,

Do you know how that information is gathered?

By the way, if you're interested I could send you a copy of a short (approximately 4000 word) monograph I recently wrote about these drugs. There is also a good review article (2012, I believe) on the SSRIs I could direct you to.


Dana
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
If we could, let's leave the firearm discussion out of this thread. There are plenty of other threads to beat that horse to death on.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 9, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
How can an anti-depressant that causes people to kill themselves work?

Because they clearly don't cause everyone to kill themselves. Only a certain percentage, and a much higher percentage in certain age groups. If you think of how many lives needed to be destroyed before those black box warnings they currently have were added, it's disturbing.

There are plenty of people born with certain mental maladies that a COMBINATION of long-term counseling and very selective and carefully monitored drug use might help.

The problem began in earnest around the time direct-to-consumer advertising started on TV. Those checks and balances were largely removed and the pill faucet was left on.

Then you have the 7-year run before generics swipe away their profits. So the push is always to have guinea pigs (us) on the latest expensive crap when the older crap might have worked just as well but nobody is getting a bonus to prescribe that.






John M

climber
Jan 9, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
How can an anti-depressant that causes people to kill themselves work?
..

This is difficult to explain but one cause is that it gives people who have suicidal ideation more energy right when the depression hits the strongest.

You have a person with depression and suicidal ideation. One aspect of suicidal ideation is that you feel hopeless about ever feeling good again. Without anti depressants one would mostly likely get to this point, but now be so depressed that they don't even have the energy to plan how to kill themselves. But with anti depressants you often do have more energy. ( please don't think this means that everyone who takes anti depressants has more energy )

So a person is depressed. This leads to feeling hopeless, this can lead to suicidal ideation. Along comes a doctor who offers hope of relief from the depression in the form of a pill. Maybe even for a time the pill works, and then either it starts to quit working or side effects start building up and the decision is made to come off of the medicine. Now the person is feeling that lack of hope again and the suicidal ideation comes into play again, but now the person has more energy due to still having the drug in their system. That energy allows them to plan a method and perhaps carry it out.

There is more to it, but that can be one part..

My credentials..

Lifetime of dealing with depression. I'm 54.
8 years on anti depressants. I have probably taken over 30 different meds for this problem. I have had just about every side effect that you could imagine.

One thing about psychiatrists not doing the counseling has to do with cost. Psychiatrists tend to cost more per hour. Its cheaper to see a psychiatrist for the meds and see a counselor for the therapy. But then you run into insurances that won't cover both. They will pay for one or the other, but not both together. MIne didn't. So my psychiatrist did my therapy even though it cost them and me more. I even wrote them and explained how it would be cheaper, but they still refused.

John M

climber
Jan 9, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
The side effects of SSRI's are very well-known, and almost all physicians are careful for that reason.

Thats not been my experience either. I have had to explain to many physicians the side effects of drugs they were prescribing me. One of the disadvantages of being poor is having to change doctors a lot. At one time I had a steady job and decent insurance. Then the depression made that impossible and I started a series of different doctors. Thankfully now I have a steady doctor. One who seems to know his stuff. Though I have had to explain a bunch of stuff to him too.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 69 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews