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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Agreed T*R.
And ZBrown, I also think it matters in this way: IF the three were in the wrong, then it's inappropriate to demonize the people in that village, or the people of Peru. Going public could have terrible consequences for those there both personally and economically.
edit: If someone is unfairly brutalized, then isn't it fair to ask for donations?
I think it's fine if someone asks for help for healthcare issues. Everyone can then contribute as they see fit. I think that is the case whether it was an unfair brutalization or not. People can choose what to do based on the case. But asking for help for equipment and things like that...that is not appropriate imo even if they were brutalized unfairly. Some people may still step up and help. Others not. Others mileage may vary.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Maybe the fund was started without their knowledge. If so, that is uncool (and unethical imo) of someone to do that! If someone did that on my behalf, I would state that publicly and return that money ASAP.
-unless that someone had the money go straight into their own PayPal account instead of yours. ;-)
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Pretty lame if they're taking money to buy replacement luxuries, if that is happening.
Slayton - they noted that they replaced their laptop with 5k already.
edit:
The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.
Agreed. And I'll add this change:
The thing that gets to me about so many posts and those posting in this thread is the vilifying of these three individuals and the Peruvians, sometimes to the point of serious anger and borderline hate, all based on nothing more than the original statement and then the opinions of others. I don't care what skill those folks have with logic, how smart they are, or how keen their judgment. They're not clairvoyant, they weren't there, and so they don't really know what the hell happened. Certainly not well enough to pass some of the judgments that have been made.
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chichalimona
Social climber
baltimore
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crimpergirl, i agree with you. what's at stake here is not really who's right or who's wrong. who asked for money for what. i'm not interested in judging people's personal decisions during or after a trauma. what the bigger issue is--as you say--is that going public with only one side of the story has created a slew of negative, and prejudiced responses not only to the people in that specific town, pallca, but also in small andean villages in general, and even peru. i have seen some forum comments saying things like "oh man, i will never go to a third world country!" i would hate for the ultimate outcome of all of this to be to reinforce stereotypes and impede future cross-cultural exchanges...
i don't think there is a "right" side of the story here. to me, it seems like there are victims on all sides of this horrific cultural misunderstanding. it is unfortunate that the way power dynamics work, that only the wolfroms' story is being heard!!
http://chichalimona.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-really-happened-in-ocongate.html
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WBraun
climber
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When those people eventually come back from Peru they will probably start throwing rocks at the SuperTopo people for talking sh!t about them .....
:-)
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Guernica
climber
right there, right then
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Chichalimona- without a doubt, the coolest and most alliterative username on here. My compliments!
Carry on.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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chichalimona-
Good editorial at several levels.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Slayton - they noted that they replaced their laptop with 5k already.
They spent 5K on a laptop?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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I can't find now where I read that. Thought it was in their blog, but don't see it now. Maybe it was upthread.
I could be wrong, but I am certain I read it somewhere.
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pat
Trad climber
estes park
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I appreciate your post and attempt at starting a dialogue Chicha. What other Spanish Language sources apart from the one I found earlier are there that deal with this incident? Peruvian blogs/newspapers with a non-racist slant? Can you point us in any direction?
-Pat
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Just got time to read the blog post.
Something funny about this. Seems bogus. Very similar to weak phishing attempts I have seen.
Why not just get money from relatives?
If the were real, it would be a major front page news item in the media. Good Morning America could fly them back and pay all their bills to scoop this story.
Pictures of the mayhem would be worth a fortune.
Bogus!
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John M
climber
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most of the stuff coming out of peru is objective, not taking sides. most articles claim that the people of pallca thought they tourists were cattle rustlers, which seems unlikely, but most likely implies that they were at least perceived as a threat. headlines are pretty much the same across the board: tourists attacked by comuneros. here are a few links:
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Thank you. I appreciate hearing the the people of Peru don't appear to be buying the notion that the villagers thought that they were cattle rustlers.
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slayton
Trad climber
Here and There
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Crimps, I like the change and wholeheartedly agree.
Haven't seen that info on the laptop but, again, if true, totally lame.
Cheers.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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I am losing my mind trying to find that text. Hopefully I'll stumble on it again. I wonder if it's been removed?? I suppose it's possible I dreamed I read it, but it makes me sad that I am wasting valuable dream time on stuff like this. :)
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chichalimona
Social climber
baltimore
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Thank you. I appreciate hearing the the people of Peru don't appear to be buying the notion that the villagers thought that they were cattle rustlers.
I should clarify that the objective info is coming from the news articles. There are certainly horrific racist comments in response to those news articles! There are also tempered responses. There are also responses leaning in the opposite direction, applauding the people in Pallca and condemning the tourists. It's across the board on opinions no matter where you are!!
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SofCookay
climber
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They did change the bottom of their blog to remove the list of items/values that were stolen - it now reads:
"The bottom half of this letter has now been removed. I posted this letter that Jenny wrote in order to quickly release our story as it was the only written account I had immediate access to and didn’t have the time to write it out myself. The point of posting this letter was to get our story out so that the legal system in Peru would have to do somthing, as before we released it they were all twittling their thumbs hoping we would just go away. The point was not to ilicit for money just becuase we listed the items which were stolen from us!"
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Crimpie, I remember reading too that the first thing they did after they got out of the hospital was purchase a new laptop. I don't recall seeing a price but they got a new laptop above all other things.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Thanks SofCookay. I have to assume I saw it there at some point.
Edit:
Thanks Fluoride!
Crimpie, I remember reading too that the first thing they did after they got out of the hospital was purchase a new laptop. I don't recall seeing a price but they got a new laptop above all other things.
That was my thought as well. That was apparently a priority and it was 5k for sure as I was surprised at the cost. I can't judge as I have no idea how much laptops cost there, but it struck me as expensive.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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If those travelers have even a quarter's worth of the character they believe themselves to have they would donate that money to the village.. it would go a very long way in establishing community medical care there, or basic education.
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