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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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the burgeoning federal empire. would we could elect people to congress a la "governs best that governs least". ain't gonna happen.
i like the curbs in joshua tree--gives the place a nice, suburban ambience. rustic is so retro.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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The NPS didn't ask for this. It was a House Rep from Santa Cruz who championed this cause
Was it Sam Farr? He's the guy who is pushing the drive to get Giant Sequoia Nat Monument (which includes The Needles) management switched from USFS to NPS.
I heard from inside that NPS doesn't want it. That doesn't mean it won't happen though...
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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a lot more RVs. gotta get there and get that sticker to fill in the map.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.
I respectfully disagree that the impetus comes from bureaucratic gears. Rather, I think that one or more organizations with campaign and financial muscle who promote a one-size-fits-all desire to designate all recreational land of interest as National Parks spearheaded this change. Perhaps in addition, the Soledad and Hollister Chambers of Commerce think PNP will generate tourist cash in a way the PNM does not.
Unless climbers in some organized and powerful fashion (AAC probably has the most clout) are prepared to fight for a different designation, I see no hope of our voices making any difference. They will certainly make no difference in the legislative and executive branches. About the only time we get our voices heard is in the courts (e.g. the litigation over YNP Plan treatment of Camp 4).
As I said when this topic came up last summer, I doubt that any good will come from this change, at least as far as climbers are concerned.
John
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Concerns about our voices noted. And yes, the push for Pinnacles becoming a National Park came from the local congressman most likely with support from local businesses who hope to generate more revenue.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Just dry tooling? I think there could be actual mixed climbing. In 1971, I led a UC Hiking Club trip to Pinnacles, and it snowed. It gets awfully cold in the mornings besides (the Chuck Richards guide has a great picture illustrating this).
C'mon. Let's up the game!
John
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.
Ah, what a wonderful chance to throw a hissy fit!!
Vitaliy, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU MORON IDIOT KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES? I MEAN JUSTIN IS CUTE AND ADORABLE AND YOU ARN'T AND YOU ARE A BAD MAN FOR CALLING HIM BEAVER WHEN IT'S REALLY BEIBER. I HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG
That's what you get for even making such a suggestion.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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A couple of thoughts:
-I don't think that adding Parks to the system neccessarily adds visitors to the system. What I think happens is that the set group of visitors that visits the parks is diluted out, somewhat.
So, you could think of this as an alternative approach to reducing the number of people visiting Yos and JT. You ARE in favor of that, right?
-I've never been particularly fond of an approach to taking a resource and keeping it from others, so that a select local group could have it to themselves. It belongs to all of us, and we need to share. They paid for it, too.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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one thing i noticed through a summer of guiding at JTNP. the most frequent summer visitors were your typical american national park touron, and their european counterparts, which have been identified as distinct particles known as eurons. none of them have any business at JT in the summer. they belong in the grand canyon, sedona, arches NP, sequoia, yosemite. JT is too hot, there's nothing for them to do but look at a few rocks which can't begin to compete with the likes of bryce canyon, and they wander aimlessly from one roadside interpretive sign to the next, learning about the trivia of joshua tree growth and what the keys family did. none of them stay for more than one night, if that, and none spends more than five to ten minutes outside of air-conditioned vehicles. that's what comes of "upgrading" to national park. climbers know the best thing to be done at JT, and when to do it.
the one that floored me was the well-to-do asian family that piled out of a car in the intersection rock parking lot, walked up to me and asked, "are the outlet stores close to here?"
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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taking a resource and keeping it from others
Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?
I dunno. Explain to me how changing something from a mon to a park ruins it, then?
Can't go one way, without it going both ways.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I dunno.
Clearly. But you didn't let that stop you from bald, baseless speculation that it would "take" something away from people. It might "take" a potential GS-grade bump promotion away from the local superintendent, or "take" the possibility of a monopoly concession away from some politically connected corporation like DNC.
But to posture as if it remaining a monument somehow keeps it away from Joe Public is a pretty ridiculous statement. If anything, making it a Nat Park will make it less available to Joe Public because entrance and/or camping fees tend to rise with gaining of Park status..something has to support those million dollar visitor centers and brand new F250s for the new ranger to idle while drinking his coffee.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES
Had tears in my eyes laughing. This is the exact response I was looking for! Took a while for you pinns-lovin weirdos!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Soledad and Hollister Chambers of Commerce think PNP will generate tourist cash in a way the PNM does not.
yeah, and they're probably correct.
nps designation gives brand recognition which is essential if you are marketing to the white middle-class. the american middle-class wants a recognizable brand: applebees, sheraton, safeway, chipotle, nps.
because of the size of pinnacles, and its proximity to a major metropolitan area, it's probably not unreasonable to expect a substantial increase in both visitation and dollars/day/visitor. if i owned property in the area, i'd probably be pretty happy.
as folks noted above, joshua tree is probably the closest comp. and the rock is almost as bad.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Gee, more people, GREAT! Who are these idiots who see National Park! and instantly choose to go there but would avoid it when labeled National Monument. I don't get it, but that's probably the case.
Anyway, I'm headed to Josh for my first extended trip in many years. I get to introduce a young climber to the place for the first time--gonna be great! I've decided mentoring is one of the best things ever for us old farts who need some kick in the pants and to see the sport with fresh perspective.
See you out there!
BAd
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Took a while for you pinns-lovin weirdos!
I bitterly resemble that comment.
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