Pinnacles NATIONAL PARK

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 49 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 1, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
hey there say, yosemitesteve...


as to this of quote:
Personally, I love Pinnacles, but I think National Monument status was quite sufficient.


i always thought that 'national monument' seemed okay, too...
but i do not really understand all this, as i said...


but as to what dirka said:
and such:

awww, i just loved it there too, whenever we went, :)
as kids... and later in life, too...
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
the burgeoning federal empire. would we could elect people to congress a la "governs best that governs least". ain't gonna happen.

i like the curbs in joshua tree--gives the place a nice, suburban ambience. rustic is so retro.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
The NPS didn't ask for this. It was a House Rep from Santa Cruz who championed this cause

Was it Sam Farr? He's the guy who is pushing the drive to get Giant Sequoia Nat Monument (which includes The Needles) management switched from USFS to NPS.

I heard from inside that NPS doesn't want it. That doesn't mean it won't happen though...
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
a lot more RVs. gotta get there and get that sticker to fill in the map.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:03am PT
We already debated this last August. Here is the thread:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1892562/Pinnacles-National-Park-er-Monument

Bottom line is that a National Park has more "prestige" (or whatever you want to call it) than a National Monument so, yes, there is a potential for more visitors.

The Pinnacles General Management Plan(GMP) is up for review and the review period ends on January 11th, 2013. You can send comments via this link:

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?documentID=50419
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Bump for link for climbers to comment on Pinnacles General Management Plan.

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?documentID=50419
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 10:39am PT
No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:06am PT
No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.

I respectfully disagree that the impetus comes from bureaucratic gears. Rather, I think that one or more organizations with campaign and financial muscle who promote a one-size-fits-all desire to designate all recreational land of interest as National Parks spearheaded this change. Perhaps in addition, the Soledad and Hollister Chambers of Commerce think PNP will generate tourist cash in a way the PNM does not.

Unless climbers in some organized and powerful fashion (AAC probably has the most clout) are prepared to fight for a different designation, I see no hope of our voices making any difference. They will certainly make no difference in the legislative and executive branches. About the only time we get our voices heard is in the courts (e.g. the litigation over YNP Plan treatment of Camp 4).

As I said when this topic came up last summer, I doubt that any good will come from this change, at least as far as climbers are concerned.

John
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:12am PT
I was wondering what agency manages NM's, so I googled it. Wow, had no idea. Good 'ole Teddy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Monument_%28United_States%29
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Concerns about our voices noted. And yes, the push for Pinnacles becoming a National Park came from the local congressman most likely with support from local businesses who hope to generate more revenue.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:52am PT
too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.

Hahahaha... best comment in this thread. Better than all the hand wringing from others on events that haven't even transpired anyway.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Just dry tooling? I think there could be actual mixed climbing. In 1971, I led a UC Hiking Club trip to Pinnacles, and it snowed. It gets awfully cold in the mornings besides (the Chuck Richards guide has a great picture illustrating this).

C'mon. Let's up the game!

John
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.

Ah, what a wonderful chance to throw a hissy fit!!

Vitaliy, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU MORON IDIOT KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES? I MEAN JUSTIN IS CUTE AND ADORABLE AND YOU ARN'T AND YOU ARE A BAD MAN FOR CALLING HIM BEAVER WHEN IT'S REALLY BEIBER. I HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG

That's what you get for even making such a suggestion.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
A couple of thoughts:

-I don't think that adding Parks to the system neccessarily adds visitors to the system. What I think happens is that the set group of visitors that visits the parks is diluted out, somewhat.

So, you could think of this as an alternative approach to reducing the number of people visiting Yos and JT. You ARE in favor of that, right?

-I've never been particularly fond of an approach to taking a resource and keeping it from others, so that a select local group could have it to themselves. It belongs to all of us, and we need to share. They paid for it, too.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
one thing i noticed through a summer of guiding at JTNP. the most frequent summer visitors were your typical american national park touron, and their european counterparts, which have been identified as distinct particles known as eurons. none of them have any business at JT in the summer. they belong in the grand canyon, sedona, arches NP, sequoia, yosemite. JT is too hot, there's nothing for them to do but look at a few rocks which can't begin to compete with the likes of bryce canyon, and they wander aimlessly from one roadside interpretive sign to the next, learning about the trivia of joshua tree growth and what the keys family did. none of them stay for more than one night, if that, and none spends more than five to ten minutes outside of air-conditioned vehicles. that's what comes of "upgrading" to national park. climbers know the best thing to be done at JT, and when to do it.

the one that floored me was the well-to-do asian family that piled out of a car in the intersection rock parking lot, walked up to me and asked, "are the outlet stores close to here?"
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 2, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
The tourons paid their fees and quickly left? Those NP people are smarter than you give them credit. Too bad the old skool dummy domers finally had to grow up and pay their due.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
taking a resource and keeping it from others

Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?


I dunno. Explain to me how changing something from a mon to a park ruins it, then?

Can't go one way, without it going both ways.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
I dunno.

Clearly. But you didn't let that stop you from bald, baseless speculation that it would "take" something away from people. It might "take" a potential GS-grade bump promotion away from the local superintendent, or "take" the possibility of a monopoly concession away from some politically connected corporation like DNC.

But to posture as if it remaining a monument somehow keeps it away from Joe Public is a pretty ridiculous statement. If anything, making it a Nat Park will make it less available to Joe Public because entrance and/or camping fees tend to rise with gaining of Park status..something has to support those million dollar visitor centers and brand new F250s for the new ranger to idle while drinking his coffee.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES

Had tears in my eyes laughing. This is the exact response I was looking for! Took a while for you pinns-lovin weirdos!

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