Pinnacles NATIONAL PARK

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Messages 1 - 49 of total 49 in this topic
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 31, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
Sounds like Pinnacles is on it's way to National Park status.

26,000 acres of pristine terrain.

What will change from the administrative side?

Climbing there has been a mix of solace and adventure at most every turn. This will surely change the way the park offers it's resources to the public.

What say you?



bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 31, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
The thinning of the blood continues apace. RIP, NPS.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 1, 2013 - 09:58am PT
hey there, say, mucci....

wow, thanks for the share...
oh my....

time will tell?
i don't know much about all this stuff...
msiddens

Trad climber
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Hey Mucci-

My $.02 says nothing good. More administration, more rules, more police, more of nothing good.

Hope you had a good NYE party. Did it go off??
Nate D

climber
San Francisco
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Spoke to a NPS volunteer friend briefly and it sounds like tighter restrictions on land use, for one.
Bad Climber

climber
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:36am PT
This will suck. National Park(ing Lots) don't improve anything. Wilderness and/or National Monument status is all that is required. This will merely mean wasted money, bigger budgets, lots o' BS. The NPS wants to increase its power, and adding "parks" is one way to do it.

Is Josh any better for being a national park? Ooooooh, now we get CURBS along all the main roads. WTF?

Bah phreakin' humbug and all that.

BAd
sullly

Trad climber
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:45am PT
I don't know Mucci. A thread not celebrating narcissism or body parts? Too bold for me, brother.
YosemiteSteve

Trad climber
CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:51am PT
The biggest change will most likely be more visitors. On the admin side, very little will change, since all the same rules will be in place.

Keep in mind this bill does nothing more than change the name of the park and the name of the wilderness area. It doesn't come with any more money, or any new rules.

Personally, I love Pinnacles, but I think National Monument status was quite sufficient. There have been a handful of other new National Parks in the past few years (Congaree Swamp, C and O Canal) that really don't seem to fit in the same category as Yosemite, Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon.
YosemiteSteve

Trad climber
CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 10:55am PT
Bad Climber said

The NPS wants to increase its power, and adding "parks" is one way to do it.

The NPS didn't ask for this. It was a House Rep from Santa Cruz who championed this cause. As someone who just spent a year shooting a film for the new Visitor Center on the West Side, I'm actually a little bummed, cuz now we have to change the film to reflect this status change.

My sense is that nearly EVERYONE who works at Pinnacles would rather things stay as they were, and I suspect that folks back in Washington probably feel the same.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 1, 2013 - 02:04pm PT

That'd be nice, as would Colorado National Monument (Park). . .
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 1, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Jan 1, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Something new on the news front on this?

Link?


The posted Sam Farr link describes 'representing the diversity' of the acreage. But it aside from the secretaries ability to land grab inholdings, I don't see specifics on how changing from Mon to Park actually benefits anyone.

If specific benefits can be layed out, then maybe. But the onus is on the proposers of the bill.

Tork

climber
Yosemite
Jan 1, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
This thread is worthless without boob pics.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 1, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
http://www.redding.com/news/2013/jan/01/pinnacles-national-park-designation-passes-senate/

http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Pinnacles-a-step-from-being-national-park-4159050.php
YosemiteSteve

Trad climber
CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/Pinnacles-a-step-from-being-national-park-4159050.php
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 1, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Mucci's links say that, as of Sunday, December 30, 2012 a bill making it a national PARK has passed and is waiting for the President's signature.

Sounds like it's a done deal.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
The Pinnacles are part of the Fiscal Cliff deal? Too bad.
Dirka

Trad climber
SF
Jan 1, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
One of my favorite places on earth. Hope it doesn't change a bit.
msiddens

Trad climber
Jan 1, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
Agree with Dirka- and of course Tork too
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Jan 1, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
National Park status always means more crowds and more rules and regs.
I don't think it's a good thing.

Yosemite Steve,
".. Keep in mind this bill does nothing more than change the name of the park and the name of the wilderness area. It doesn't come with any more money, or any new rules".

yur wrong. We saw it happen to Josh.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Jan 1, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
hey there say, yosemitesteve...


as to this of quote:
Personally, I love Pinnacles, but I think National Monument status was quite sufficient.


i always thought that 'national monument' seemed okay, too...
but i do not really understand all this, as i said...


but as to what dirka said:
and such:

awww, i just loved it there too, whenever we went, :)
as kids... and later in life, too...
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
the burgeoning federal empire. would we could elect people to congress a la "governs best that governs least". ain't gonna happen.

i like the curbs in joshua tree--gives the place a nice, suburban ambience. rustic is so retro.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
The NPS didn't ask for this. It was a House Rep from Santa Cruz who championed this cause

Was it Sam Farr? He's the guy who is pushing the drive to get Giant Sequoia Nat Monument (which includes The Needles) management switched from USFS to NPS.

I heard from inside that NPS doesn't want it. That doesn't mean it won't happen though...
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Jan 1, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
a lot more RVs. gotta get there and get that sticker to fill in the map.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:03am PT
We already debated this last August. Here is the thread:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1892562/Pinnacles-National-Park-er-Monument

Bottom line is that a National Park has more "prestige" (or whatever you want to call it) than a National Monument so, yes, there is a potential for more visitors.

The Pinnacles General Management Plan(GMP) is up for review and the review period ends on January 11th, 2013. You can send comments via this link:

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?documentID=50419
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Bump for link for climbers to comment on Pinnacles General Management Plan.

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?documentID=50419
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 10:39am PT
No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:06am PT
No offense but does anybody seriously think our comments will have a snow
ball's chance of influencing any of this? The bureaucratic gears are grinding
away inexorably. Hearings and 'feedback' are just niceties.

I respectfully disagree that the impetus comes from bureaucratic gears. Rather, I think that one or more organizations with campaign and financial muscle who promote a one-size-fits-all desire to designate all recreational land of interest as National Parks spearheaded this change. Perhaps in addition, the Soledad and Hollister Chambers of Commerce think PNP will generate tourist cash in a way the PNM does not.

Unless climbers in some organized and powerful fashion (AAC probably has the most clout) are prepared to fight for a different designation, I see no hope of our voices making any difference. They will certainly make no difference in the legislative and executive branches. About the only time we get our voices heard is in the courts (e.g. the litigation over YNP Plan treatment of Camp 4).

As I said when this topic came up last summer, I doubt that any good will come from this change, at least as far as climbers are concerned.

John
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:12am PT
I was wondering what agency manages NM's, so I googled it. Wow, had no idea. Good 'ole Teddy!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Monument_%28United_States%29
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Concerns about our voices noted. And yes, the push for Pinnacles becoming a National Park came from the local congressman most likely with support from local businesses who hope to generate more revenue.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 2, 2013 - 11:52am PT
too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.

Hahahaha... best comment in this thread. Better than all the hand wringing from others on events that haven't even transpired anyway.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Just dry tooling? I think there could be actual mixed climbing. In 1971, I led a UC Hiking Club trip to Pinnacles, and it snowed. It gets awfully cold in the mornings besides (the Chuck Richards guide has a great picture illustrating this).

C'mon. Let's up the game!

John
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
too bad it is not closer to the bay area. would be a great dry tooling spot.

Ah, what a wonderful chance to throw a hissy fit!!

Vitaliy, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE YOU MORON IDIOT KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES? I MEAN JUSTIN IS CUTE AND ADORABLE AND YOU ARN'T AND YOU ARE A BAD MAN FOR CALLING HIM BEAVER WHEN IT'S REALLY BEIBER. I HATE YOU AND EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG

That's what you get for even making such a suggestion.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 2, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
A couple of thoughts:

-I don't think that adding Parks to the system neccessarily adds visitors to the system. What I think happens is that the set group of visitors that visits the parks is diluted out, somewhat.

So, you could think of this as an alternative approach to reducing the number of people visiting Yos and JT. You ARE in favor of that, right?

-I've never been particularly fond of an approach to taking a resource and keeping it from others, so that a select local group could have it to themselves. It belongs to all of us, and we need to share. They paid for it, too.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
one thing i noticed through a summer of guiding at JTNP. the most frequent summer visitors were your typical american national park touron, and their european counterparts, which have been identified as distinct particles known as eurons. none of them have any business at JT in the summer. they belong in the grand canyon, sedona, arches NP, sequoia, yosemite. JT is too hot, there's nothing for them to do but look at a few rocks which can't begin to compete with the likes of bryce canyon, and they wander aimlessly from one roadside interpretive sign to the next, learning about the trivia of joshua tree growth and what the keys family did. none of them stay for more than one night, if that, and none spends more than five to ten minutes outside of air-conditioned vehicles. that's what comes of "upgrading" to national park. climbers know the best thing to be done at JT, and when to do it.

the one that floored me was the well-to-do asian family that piled out of a car in the intersection rock parking lot, walked up to me and asked, "are the outlet stores close to here?"
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 2, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
The tourons paid their fees and quickly left? Those NP people are smarter than you give them credit. Too bad the old skool dummy domers finally had to grow up and pay their due.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
taking a resource and keeping it from others

Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Huh? How does something remaining a Nat. Mon. instead of a Nat Park "take" or "keep" it from anybody?


I dunno. Explain to me how changing something from a mon to a park ruins it, then?

Can't go one way, without it going both ways.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
I dunno.

Clearly. But you didn't let that stop you from bald, baseless speculation that it would "take" something away from people. It might "take" a potential GS-grade bump promotion away from the local superintendent, or "take" the possibility of a monopoly concession away from some politically connected corporation like DNC.

But to posture as if it remaining a monument somehow keeps it away from Joe Public is a pretty ridiculous statement. If anything, making it a Nat Park will make it less available to Joe Public because entrance and/or camping fees tend to rise with gaining of Park status..something has to support those million dollar visitor centers and brand new F250s for the new ranger to idle while drinking his coffee.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
KNOBGOBBLING RETARDED APE WITH NO INDEX FINGERS WHO EATS PEANUT BUTTER FROM THE JAR WITH YOUR TOES

Had tears in my eyes laughing. This is the exact response I was looking for! Took a while for you pinns-lovin weirdos!

klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 2, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
Soledad and Hollister Chambers of Commerce think PNP will generate tourist cash in a way the PNM does not.


yeah, and they're probably correct.

nps designation gives brand recognition which is essential if you are marketing to the white middle-class. the american middle-class wants a recognizable brand: applebees, sheraton, safeway, chipotle, nps.

because of the size of pinnacles, and its proximity to a major metropolitan area, it's probably not unreasonable to expect a substantial increase in both visitation and dollars/day/visitor. if i owned property in the area, i'd probably be pretty happy.

as folks noted above, joshua tree is probably the closest comp. and the rock is almost as bad.
Bad Climber

climber
Jan 2, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Gee, more people, GREAT! Who are these idiots who see National Park! and instantly choose to go there but would avoid it when labeled National Monument. I don't get it, but that's probably the case.

Anyway, I'm headed to Josh for my first extended trip in many years. I get to introduce a young climber to the place for the first time--gonna be great! I've decided mentoring is one of the best things ever for us old farts who need some kick in the pants and to see the sport with fresh perspective.

See you out there!

BAd
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 2, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Took a while for you pinns-lovin weirdos!

I bitterly resemble that comment.
miwuksurfer

Social climber
Mi-Wuk
Jan 2, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
Pinnacles National Park
Pinnacles National Park
Credit: miwuksurfer

Don't worry, Brad. I don't need a refund, I fixed it.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
Back to the press.....


klk

Trad climber
cali
Jan 2, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Who are these idiots who see National Park! and instantly choose to go there but would avoid it when labeled National Monument.

most folks won't do or try anything that isn't brand certified.

just try to find partners for something that isn't on the grid. then watch them line up once it's in a published guidebook.

mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Jan 2, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
All right Miwuk, that was a damn good one. Remind me to give you plenty of penalty slack next time I'm belaying you.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Maybe it will draw crowds away from Yosemite. That would be cool.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jan 27, 2013 - 09:03am PT
Many probably already know but this was signed into law Jan. 10, 2013.
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