Does the NRA have a stupid pill problem?


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Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Well move over then. Us Canadians and Ausies will take over leading the Free world.

Ummmmmm, not likely. Our economy is more than ten times the size of yours and so is the foreign aid we provide. Does that mean the US is without problems? Not at all. We clearly have a gun violence problem. I'm not convinced that taking all the guns away from those who, as a matter of conscience, abide by the laws of the land will solve that problem though.

Does our gun violence problem mean we are not the leader of the free world? Hardly.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jan 5, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
The role of guns as self-defense is not incompatible with the regulation of guns.

The role of guns to support rebellion probably is incompatible with the regulation of guns, however, there is no right-to-rebellion guaranteed by the Constitution.

Confusing these two issues causes this unreasonable, hardened political position to be taken.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Jan 5, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Three women die as gunman opens fire in Swiss village
Thu, Jan 3 2013
Gunmen in Pakistan shoot dead seven aid workers near capital
Tue, Jan 1 2013
Three New Jersey police officers shot; gunman reported dead
Fri, Dec 28 2012
New York gunman left note declaring plan to kill people
Tue, Dec 25 2012

At least four dead in Aurora shooting
By Keith Coffman
AURORA, Colo. | Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:26pm EST
(Reuters) - A gunman who barricaded himself inside a townhouse after killing three people in the home was shot to death by police on Saturday in Aurora, Colorado, the same Denver suburb where 12 people were slain in a movie house massacre last July, police said.


Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
Some on this thread and some politicos have argued that we should follow the lead of Britain, Australia, and Japan, in banning most forms of gun ownership by private citizens so that we can reduce our own rate of gun homicides to the level those three countries have.

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 5, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Dropline, I have been following this thread from the beginning

I don't recall any group of people or even one single person posting here who has stated they want legally purchased guns taken away from people.

Also, you mentioned some "politicos"

I don't recall any member of either house of congress who is advocating, talking about proposing legislation, that actually requires Americans to turn in all the guns they purchased legally.

What am I missing, Dropline?

WHO are the people on this thread, and who are the politicos, calling for "guns to be taken away from people"?

Everything I read is people talking about what possibly could be done to mitigate mass murder by large clip and/or full scale assault weapons "new" purchases having more restrictive controls, not "handguns" purchased legally.


Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
I don't recall any group of people or even one single person posting here who has stated they want legally purchased guns taken away from people.

jghedge has written words to that effect regularly. He frequently cites Britain's gun control laws as a model for what we should adopt, and if I understand those laws correctly, they outlaw most forms of private gun ownership.

By politicos I mean not just politicians but also political pundits, like the NY Times editorial board responsible for the opinion piece I linked.

I don't mean to raise a straw man argument of regulation being either all or nothing. If banning weapons like the .223 and also high capacity magazines will at least reduce the number of mass shootings, I'm all in.

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jan 5, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
Maybe some states.
In CA, if I lose my rifle or handgun,
and for some reason the ATF comes knocking, looking for them, (Yeah right)
or my gun is found on a dead gang member, or dropped at a robbery,
they can trace the serial number back to me.
Then yes, I'd be in deep sh*t.
Firstly, I think that you are mistaken, but even if correct, there are probably forty-something other states you wouldn't be in any sh** at all.
In the absence of an informant who will testify, it is almost impossible to successfully prosecute a straw purchase. That girl in NY who bought the guns that killed those firefighters simply has to claim the killer stole them from her, or even that she just left them somewhere and forgot about them, and the burden is on the prosecutor to prove otherwise. This is why mandatory reporting of "lost" or stolen guns is needed, and at a federal level, otherwise it's pointless.

Write your congressman.



Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
Norton, I hear you. Didn't mean to go there or make the slippery slope argument. Perhaps I misunderstood hedge. But as I'm not making the slippery slope argument I'm not going to take the time to review the entire thread looking for hedge's comments or those of others that may have called for the banning of all, or virtually all guns.


Social climber
So Cal
Jan 5, 2013 - 07:39pm PT

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jan 5, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
n addition, a person writing a personal opinion piece that got published in a newspaper such as your example is decidedly not a "politico"

Regarding my use of "politico", in addition to being an informal term for politician, often with a bad connotation, politico can also refer to "a person with strong political views". This verified in the OED, 2nd edition, condensed, page 1380.

Edited to add: The fuller description in the OED is "a political agent; a person with strong political views". So a politico need not be an elected politician but must be a "political agent" of some kind. For example, Jack Lew, Obama's chief of staff, could be referred to as a politico, even though he is not an elected politician. But you are right about talking heads not being politicos, as they are not political agents and have no political power, or agency, beyond their words. My bad.

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 5, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Even if it is just a 9 I bet if she fired that Kahr she'd drop it or at least not want again.
(and they should have shown her how to index that finger)

At Dixie Gun today I found a factory Mini 30 twenty rounder which only cost $35.
They had some new Brownell AR mags for $40 which only cost $20 a month ago.

Somebody said to one of the clerks that Walmart got some .22 ammo and 5 customers overheard and raced for their trucks.

Now when they answer the phone they just pick up the receiver and say "We ran out."

I wonder how long this will go on.

Social climber
So Cal
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:08pm PT

Somewhere out there
Jan 5, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
This is more for the republicon/church-school type who think that getting god out of the classroom has resulted in more school shootings…. A bit of reality would not be good for you….

From Wikipedia:

May 12, 1900: Danbury, Connecticut After being repeatedly refused by Teacher Lillian Owen, Herbert Horton went to the schoolhouse and pleaded one last time. He then pulled out a revolver and demanded entry or he would kill himself. Miss Owen and pupils barricaded the door. Horton then shot himself in the chest.[16]
February 26, 1902: Camargo, Illinois Teacher Fletcher R. Barnett shot and killed another teacher, Eva C. Wiseman, in front of her class at a school. After shooting at a pupil who came to help Miss Wiseman and wounding himself in a failed suicide attempt, he waited in the classroom until a group of farmers came to lynch him. He then ran out of the school building, grabbed a shotgun from one of the farmers and shot himself, before running away and leaping into a well where he finally drowned. The incident was likely sparked by Wiseman's refusal to marry Barnett[17].
February 24, 1903: Inman, South Carolina Edward Foster, a 17-year-old student at Inman High school, was shot and fatally wounded by his teacher Reuben Pitts after he had jerked a rod from Pitts' hands to resist punishment. According to the teacher, Foster struck the pistol Pitts had drawn to defend himself, thus causing its discharge. Pitts was later acquitted of murder.
July 21, 1903 Jackson, Kentucky at the Cave Run School, James Barrett and Mack Howard fought a dual with pistols over a card game killing each other. Another student James Vires, age 12, was also found shot in the abdomen while sitting at his desk[18].
December 16, 1904: Magee, Mississippi E. E. Mangum was shot through the head and killed by the principal of the high school, Professor J. E. Woodward. Mangum remonstrated with Woodward because he had administered a severe whipping to Mangum's 15-year-old son. Mangum finally lost his temper and shot Woodward through the wrist. Woodward was handed a pistol by a bystander and shot Mangum through the head[19].
October 10, 1906: Cleveland, Ohio Harry Smith shot and killed 22-year-old teacher Mary Shepard at South Euclid School after she had rejected him. Smith escaped and committed suicide in a barn near his home two hours later.[20]
March 23, 1907: Carmi, Illinois George Nicholson shot and killed John Kurd at a schoolhouse during a school rehearsal. The motive for the shooting was Kurd making a disparaging remark about Nicholson's daughter during her recital.
December 20, 1907: Chico, California Arthur Roberts, aged 11 years, was shot in the head and killed during a military drill by the school children of the Dayton school district. The children, armed with old guns believed to be empty, aimed and pulled triggers. Instantly the Roberts boy, who liad just emerged from the school building, threw his hands to his head and cried, "I'm shot."[21]
March 11, 1908: Boston, Massachusetts Elizabeth Bailey Hardee was shot to death by Sarah Chamberlain Weed at the Laurens School, a finishing school in Boston. Weed then turned the gun on herself and committed suicide.
April 15, 1908: Asheville, North Carolina Dr. C.O. Swinney shot and fatally wounded his 16-year-old daughter Nellie in a reception room at Normal and Collegiate Institute. He then committed suicide by shooting himself in the head.
February 12, 1909: San Francisco, California 10-year-old Dorothy Malakanoff was shot and killed by 49-year-old Demetri Tereaschinko as she arrived at her school in San Francisco. Tereaschinko then shot himself in a failed suicide attempt. Tereaschinko was reportedly upset that Malakanoff refused to elope with him.
March 19, 1909: Mount Vernon, Illinois During a school performance of "the Grand Central", John Moake, portraying the villain, was shot in the forehead and dangerously wounded by the hero, Roy Slater. The cartridge was thought to have been blank[22].
June 10, 1909: Trinidad, Colorado Walter Harris, 11 years old student accidentally shot and killed his teacher B.C. Briggs in the head while on a school field trip[23].
January 10, 1912: Warrenville, Illinois Sylvester E. Adams shot and killed teacher Edith Smith after she rejected his advances. Adams then shot and killed himself. The incident took place in a schoolhouse after the students had been dismissed for the day.
March 27, 1919: Lodi Township, Michigan 19-year-old teacher Irma Casler was shot and killed in her classroom at Rentschler school by Robert Warner, apparently because she had rejected his advances.
April 2, 1921: Syracuse, New York Professor Holmes Beckwith shot and killed dean J. Herman Wharton in his office at Syracuse University before committing suicide.
February 15, 1927: Hempstead, New York James O'Donnell, 18-year-old senior at Hempstead High School, shot himself to death on the stage in the school's auditorium. A suicide note stated that O'Donnell killed himself to lessen the financial burden on his family.
May 18, 1927: Bath, Michigan Bath School Disaster School treasurer Andrew Kehoe, after killing his wife and destroying his house and farm, blew up the Bath Consolidated School by detonating dynamite in the basement of the school, killing 38 people, mostly children. He then pulled up to the school in his car, then set off a bomb, killing himself and four others. This is the deadliest mass murder at a school in United States history and the world's first suicide bombing.
May 22, 1930: Ringe, Minnesota Margaret Wegman, 20-year-old teacher at the local rural school, was shot and killed in the school by 24-year-old Douglas Petersen.
May 28, 1931: Duluth, Minnesota Katherine McMillen, 24-year-old teacher at the Howard Gensen rural school near Duluth, was accidentally shot and killed by a revolver brought to school by a pupil.
February 15, 1933: Downey, California Dr. Vernon Blythe shot and killed his wife Eleanor, as well as his 8-year old son Robert at Gallatin grammar school and committed suicide after firing three more shots at his other son Vernon. His wife, who had been a teacher at the school, had filed for divorce the week before.
February 2, 1934: Harlan, Iowa Margaret Graves, 23, school teacher at Monroe School No. 2, was shot to death in front of her 20 students by former suitor Herman Seick, 28. Seick then took his own life in the classroom.
September 14, 1934: Gill, Massachusetts. Headmaster Elliott Speer was murdered by a shotgun blast through the window of his study at Northfield Mount Hermon School. The crime was never solved.
March 27, 1935: Medora, North Dakota Emily Hartl, 24-year-old teacher at the Manlon school northwest of Medora, was shot and killed at the school by 28-year-old Harry McGill, a former suitor.
May 7, 1935: Irvington, New York Dr. Paul Kyle, head of the Kyle School for Boys, was found shot to death in the school, just before classes were to begin for the day.
December 12, 1935: New York City, New York, Victor Koussow, a Russian laboratory worker at the School of Dental and Oral Surgery, shot Prof. Arthur Taylor Rowe, Prof. Paul B. Wiberg, and wounded Dr. William H. Crawford at Columbia Presbyterian Hospital, before committing suicide.
April 27, 1936: Lincoln, Nebraska Prof. John Weller shot and wounded Prof. Harry Kurz in a corridor of the University of Nebraska, apparently because of his impending dismissal at the end of the semester. After shooting Kurz Weller tried to escape, but was surrounded by police on the campus, whereupon he killed himself with a shot in the chest.
June 4, 1936: Bethlehem, Pennsylvania Wesley Crow shot and killed his Lehigh University English instructor, C. Wesley Phy. Crow went to Phy's office and demanded that Phy change his grade to a passing mark. Crow committed suicide after shooting Phy.
June 4, 1937: Isabel, Kansas Robert Douthitt, 16, was accidentally shot to death backstage during high school play practice. The revolver was to have been loaded with blanks, but it held live ammo.
September 24, 1937: Toledo, Ohio 12-year-old Robert Snyder shot and wounded his principal, June Mapes, in her office at Arlington public school when she declined his request to call a classmate. He then fled the school grounds and shot and wounded himself.

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2012)
May [24] 6, 1940: South Pasadena, California. After being removed as principal of South Pasadena Junior High School, Verlin Spencer shot six school officials, killing five, before attempting to commit suicide by shooting himself in the stomach.
May 23, 1940: New York City, New York Infuriated by a grievance, Matthew Gillespie, 62-year-old janitor at the Dwight School for Girls, shot and critically wounded Mrs. Marshall Coxe, secretary of the junior school.
July 4, 1940: Valhalla, New York Angered by the refusal of his daughter, Melba, 15, to leave a boarding school and return to his home, Joseph Moshell, 47, visited the school and shot and killed the girl.
September 12, 1940: Uniontown, Pennsylvania, 29-year-old teacher Carolyn Dellamea is shot to death inside her third grade classroom by 35-year-old William Kuhns. Kuhns then shot himself in the chest in a failed suicide attempt. Kuhns had reportedly been courting Dellamea for over a year but the relationship was ended when Dellamea discovered that Kuhns was already married.[25]
October 2, 1942: New York City, New York Irwin Goodman, 36-year-old mathematics teacher at William J. Gaynor Junior High School, was shot and killed in the school corridor by a youth.
February 23, 1943: Port Chester, New York Harry Wyman, 13, shot himself dead at the Harvey School, a boys’ preparatory school.
June 26, 1946: Brooklyn, New York A 15-year-old schoolboy who balked at turning over his pocket money to a gang of seven youths was shot in the chest in the basement of the Public School 147 annex of the Brooklyn High School for Automotive Trades.
November 24, 1946: New York City A 13-year-old student at St. Benedict’s Parochial School, shot and fatally wounded himself while sitting in an audience watching a school play.
February 5, 1947: Madill, Oklahoma 1st grade teacher Jessie Laird, 40, was shot to death in her classroom, during recess by her estranged husband, Ellis Laird, 62. Laird then fatally shot himself.
December 1, 1947: Bala Cynwyd, Pennsylvania Donald Peabody Sargent, 14, shot himself to death in his junior high school classroom.
December 24, 1948: New York City, New York A 14-year-old boy was fatally wounded by a shot from the .22-caliber rifle of a fellow student Robert Ross, 17. The youth was accidentley shot in the head when he chanced into range where Ross was target shooting near a lake on the school property.
March 11, 1949: New York City, New York A 16-year-old student at Stuyvesant High School was accidentally shot in the arm by a fellow student who was ‘showing off’ with a pistol in a classroom.
November 13, 1949: Columbus, Ohio Ohio State University freshman James Heer grabbed a .45 caliber handgun from the room of a Delta Tau Delta fraternity brother and shot and killed his fraternity brother Jack McKeown, 21, an Ohio State senior.

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2012)
April 25, 1950: Peru, Nebraska Dr. William Nicholas, 48, president of Peru State College and Dr. Paul Maxwell, 56, education department head, were shot to death at their desks by Dr. Barney Baker, 54-year-old psychology professor. Baker was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot at his home on campus.
July 22, 1950: New York City, New York A 16-year-old boy was shot in the wrist and abdomen at the Public School 141 dance during an argument with a former classmate.
March 12, 1951: Union Mills, North Carolina Professor W. E. Sweatt, superintendent and teacher at the Alexander School, was shot to death by students Billy Ray Powell, 16, and Hugh Justice, 19. The assailants had been reprimanded by Sweatt, and they waited for him as he locked his office door.
June 4, 1951: New York City, New York Carl Arch, a 50-year-old intruder to a girl's gym class, was shot and killed by a police officer at Manhattan's Central Commercial High School.
November 27, 1951: New York City, New York David Brooks, a 15-year-old student, was fatally shot as fellow pupils looked on in a grade school.
April 9, 1952: New York City, New York A 15-year-old boarding school student shot a dean rather than relinquish pin-up pictures of girls in bathing suits.
July 14, 1952: New York City, New York Bayard Peakes walked in to the offices of the American Physical Society (APS) at Columbia University and shot and killed secretary Eileen Fahey with a .22 caliber pistol. Peakes was reportedly upset that the APS had rejected a pamphlet he had written.
September 3, 1952: in Lawrenceville, Illinois After Georgine Lyon, 25, ended her engagement with Charles Petrach, Petrach shot and killed Lyon in a classroom at Lawrenceville High School where she worked as a librarian.
November 20, 1952: New York City, New York Rear Admiral E. E. Herrmann, 56, superintendent of the Naval Postgraduate School, was found dead in his office with a bullet in his head. A service revolver was found by his side.
October 2, 1953: Chicago, Illinois Patrick Colletta,14, was shot to death by Bernice Turner,14, in a classroom of Kelly High School. It was reported that after Turner refused to date Colletta he handed her the gun and dared her to pull the trigger, telling her that the gun was “only a toy.” A coroner’s jury later ruled that the shooting was an accident.
October 8, 1953: New York City, New York Larry Licitra, 17-year-old student at the Machine and Metal Trades High School, was shot and slightly wounded in the right shoulder in the lobby of the school while inspecting a handmade pistol owned by one of several students.
March 31, 1954: Newton, Massachusetts John Frankenberger, 14, was accidentally shot to death in a classroom at Day Junior High School when a pistol being held by a classmate discharged.
May 15, 1954: Chapel Hill, North Carolina Putnam Davis Jr. was shot and killed during a fraternity house carnival at the Phi Delta Theta house at the University of North Carolina. William Joyner and Allen Long were shot and wounded during the exchange of gunfire in their fraternity bedroom. The incident took place after an all-night beer party. Mr. Long reported to the police that, while the three were drinking beer at 7 a.m., Davis pulled out a gun and started shooting with a gun he had obtained from the car of a former roommate.
January 11, 1955: Swarthmore, Pennsylvania After some of his dormmates urinated on his mattress, Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.
May 4, 1956: Prince George's County, Maryland 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School after he had been reprimanded from the school.
October 20, 1956: New York City, New York A Booker T. Washington Junior High School student was wounded in the forearm by another student armed with a home-made weapon.
October 2, 1957: New York City, New York A 16-year old student was shot in the leg by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.
March 4, 1958: New York City, New York A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.
May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York A 15-year-old high Massapequa High School freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom.
September 24, 1959: New York City, New York Twenty-seven men and boys and an arsenal were seized in the Bronx as the police headed off a gang war resulting from the fatal shooting of a teenager at Morris High School.

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (August 2012)
February 2, 1960: Hartford City, Indiana Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.
March 30, 1960 Alice, Texas Donna Dvorak, 14, brought a .22 target pistol to Dubose Junior High School, and fatally shot Bobby Whitford, 15, in their 9th grade science class. Dvorak believed Whitford posed a threat to one of her girlfriends.
June 7, 1960: Blaine, Minnesota Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.
January 4, 1961: Delmont, South Dakota Donald Kurtz, 17-year-old senior at Delmont High School, was fatally wounded by a .22 caliber bullet from a rifle. The shot, intended as a sound effect for a school play, hit him in the chest during a rehearsal just minutes before the play was to take place.
October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.
August 1, 1966: Charles Whitman age 25, climbed atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, and killed 16 people and wounded 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage in the University of Texas massacre.
October 5, 1966: Grand Rapids, Minnesota Grand Rapids High School student David Black, 15, killed school administrator Forrest Willey and seriously wounded fellow student Kevin Roth, 14.[26]
November 12, 1966: Mesa, Arizona Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.
January 24, 1968: High Point, North Carolina David Walker, 15, was shot to death just outside Central High School by Gerald Locklear, 15.
January 30, 1968: Miami, Florida 16-year-old Blanche Ward shot and killed fellow student Linda Lipscomb, 16, with a .22-caliber pistol at Miami Jackson High School. According to Ward, she was threatened with a razor by Lipscomb during an argument over a fountain pen, and in the ensuing struggle the gun went off.
February 8, 1968: Orangeburg, South Carolina In the days leading up to February 8, 1968, about 200 mostly student protesters gathered on the campus of South Carolina State University, located in the city of Orangeburg, to protest the segregation of the All Star Bowling Lane. The bowling alley was owned by the late Harry K. Floyd. That night, students started a bonfire. As police attempted to put out the fire, an officer was injured by a thrown piece of banister. The police said they believed they were under attack by small weapons fire. The officers fired into the crowd, killing three young men: Samuel Hammond, Delano Middleton, and Henry Smith, and wounding twenty-seven others.
May 22, 1968: Miami, Florida Ernest Lee Grissom, a 15-year-old student at Drew Junior High School, shot and seriously wounded a teacher and a 13-year-old student after he had been reprimanded for causing a disturbance.
January 17, 1969: Los Angeles, California Two student members of the Black Panther Party, Alprentice Carter and John Huggins, were fatally shot during a student meeting inside Campbell Hall at the University of California, Los Angeles. The motive of the shooting regarded who would own the school's African American Studies Center. The shooter, Claude Hubert, was never to be found but three other men were arrested in connection with the shooting.
January 23, 1969: Washington, D.C. Cardozo Senior High School assistant principal Herman Clifford, 45, was shot to death in the school's hallway by Ronald Joyner, 18, while scuffling with three youths who robbed the school's bank.
November 19, 1969: Tomah, Wisconsin Principal Martin Mogensen was shot to death in his office by a 14-year-old boy armed with a 20-gauge shotgun.
The two most notable U.S. school shootings in the early 1970s were the Jackson State killings in May 1970, where police opened fire on the campus of Jackson State University and the Kent State shootings also in May 1970 where the National Guard opened fire on the campus of Kent State University.[citation needed]
The mid to late 1970s is considered the second most violent period in U.S. school history with a series of school shootings,
February 2, 1971: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Teacher Samson L. Freedman, 56, was shot to death as he left Morris E. Leeds School, by Kevin Simmons, 14. Freedman had suspended Simmons earlier in the day for cursing in the hallway.
November 8, 1971: Grove, Oklahoma School custodian, Jim "James" Underwood brought a .22-caliber revolver to school hidden in a brown paper bag. School principal, T.J. Melton, 49, was shot in the left shoulder, left ear and in the top of his head, according to published reports. He died around 9 a.m. and Underwood was charged the next day with first-degree murder.[27]
November 11, 1971: Spokane, Washington Former MIT student Larry J. Harmon, 21, entered St. Aloysius Roman Catholic Church on the Gonzaga University campus armed with a .22 caliber rifle. Harmon killed the caretaker, 68-year-old Hilary Kunz, and upon merging from the church, wounded four more people before police officers shot and killed him. Harmon was described by his father as a religious fanatic who believed that he had seen the devil and that Christ was an imposter.[28]
January 5, 1972: Washington, DC Fifth-grade teacher Margaret Brooks, 57, was shot to death in front of her students by her estranged husband James A. Brooks.[citation needed]
January 17, 1974: Chicago, Illinois Elementary school principal Rudolph Jezek, Jr., 52, was shot to death in his office by Steven Guy, 14, a former student said to be angry at being transferred from the school to a social adjustment center.[citation needed]
December 30, 1974: Olean, New York Regents scholar Anthony Barbaro, 17, armed with a rifle and shotgun, kills three adults and wounds 11 others at his high school, which was closed for the Christmas holiday. Barbaro was reportedly a loner who kept a diary describing several "battle plans" for his attack on the school.[29]
February 12, 1976: Detroit, Michigan Intruders shot five Murray-Wright High School students after an apparent dispute over one of the intruders girlfriends.[30]
May 1976: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma U.S. Grant High School student Randy Truitt was shot and killed by James Briggs at the school, leaving several others injured.[citation needed]
June 12, 1976: California State University, Fullerton massacre Custodian Edward Charles Allaway, 37, opened fire with a semi-automatic rifle in the library on the California State University, Fullerton campus killing 7, and wounding 2.[citation needed]
November 10, 1976: Detroit, Michigan Second grade teacher Bettye McCaster, 45, was shot to death in front of her 29 students at Burt Elementary School, by her estranged husband, Al Lewis.[citation needed]
April 7, 1977: Whitharral, Texas High School principal M.O. Tripp was shot to death on the front steps of the school by Ricardo Lopez, 17.[citation needed]
February 9, 1978: St. Albans, West Virginia A 15-year-old student was shot and killed by another student at Hayes Junior High School.[citation needed]
February 22, 1978: Lansing, Michigan After being taunted for his beliefs, a 15-year-old self-proclaimed Nazi, kills one student and wounds a second with a Luger pistol.[29]
May 18, 1978: Austin, Texas John Daniel Christian, 13, son of Lyndon B. Johnson's former press secretary George Christian, shot to death his English teacher, Wilbur Grayson, 29, with his father's .22 caliber rifle in front of approximately 30 classmates. John Christian was never prosecuted and is now a practicing attorney in Austin, Texas.[31]
January 29, 1979: San Diego, California Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing 2 adults and wounding 9 others, 8 of whom were children.[citation needed]
March 26, 1980: Big Rapids, Michigan Robert Brauer, Business Professor, was shot by student Thomas Kakonis, 20, at Ferris State College. Robert Brauer had failed Kakonis on an examination. Kakonis was the son of an associate dean at the college.[32]
April 7, 1982: Littleton, Colorado, Deer Creek Jr. High School student Jason Rocha, 14, shot and killed Scott Darwin Michael, 13.[33]
January 20, 1983: St. Louis County, Missouri Eighth grade Parkway South Middle School student David F. Lawler entered a study hall classroom and opened fire, killing Randall Koger, 15, and injuring Greg Saffo, 15. Lawler then committed suicide.
According to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, in the United States, from September 1986 to September 1990:[34]
At least 71 people (65 students and 6 school employees) had been killed with guns at school.
201 were severely wounded by gun fire.
242 individuals were held hostage at gunpoint.
According to a 1987 survey conducted by the American School Health Association,[35] " 3% of the boys reported having carried a handgun to school at least once during the school year; 1% reported carrying a handgun on a daily basis."
The late 1980s began to see a major increase in school shootings, including:
May 17, 1984: Altoona, Iowa While students in a French class at Southeast Polk High School were taking a test in the hallway, a 17-year-old male shot and killed a 16-year-old female student before killing himself.[36][37]
January 22, 1985: Goddard, Kansas James Alan Kearbey, 14, armed with a M1-A semiautomatic rifle and a .357-caliber handgun, killed principal Joseph McGee and wounded two teachers and a student at Goddard Junior High School.[38]
September 4, 1985: Richmond, Virginia A 12-year-old East End Middle School boy shot a girl with his mother's gun.[39][40]
October 18, 1985: Detroit, Michigan During halftime of the homecoming football game between Northwestern High School and Murray-Wright High School, a boy who was in a fight earlier that day pulled out a shotgun and opened fire, injuring six students.[41][42]
November 26, 1985: Spanaway, Washington A 14-year-old girl shot two boys fatally, then killed herself with a .22-caliber rifle at Spanaway Junior High School.[43][44][45]
December 10, 1985: Portland, Connecticut At Portland Junior High School, a 13-year-old male student pulled out a 9mm firearm and opened fire, injuring the school secretary and killing a custodian.[46]
April 1986: Slidell, Louisiana 13-year-old gifted Boyet Junior High School student Matt Cooper shot himself in class.[47]
May 16, 1986: Cokeville Elementary School hostage crisis In a ransom scheme, David and Doris Young took 150 students and teachers hostage. Their demand for $300 million dollars came to an abrupt end when Doris accidentally set off a bomb, killing herself and injuring 78 students and teachers. David wounded John Miller, a teacher who was trying to flee, then killed himself.
December 5, 1986: Lewistown, Montana A 14-year-old Fergus High School student shot and killed a substitute teacher and wounded a vice principal and two classmates.
March 2, 1987: De Kalb, Missouri Honors student Nathan Ferris, 12, killed a classmate and then himself.[48]
April 16, 1987: Detroit, Michigan A ninth-grade Murray Wright High School student killed Chester Jackson, 17, and wounded Damon Matthews, 17, and Tomeka Turner, 18.[49][50]
December 16, 1987: Katy, Texas Mayde Creek High School student Ramesh D. Tumalad, 15, shot himself to death in his Algebra class as his classmates looked on.[51]
May 20, 1988: Winnetka, Illinois Laurie Dann, 30, shot and killed one elementary school student and wounded five others, then took a family hostage and shot a man before killing herself.
September 26, 1988: Greenwood, South Carolina James William Wilson Jr., 19, entered Oakland Elementary School and opened fire, killing two 8-year-old girls and wounding 6 other students and 2 teachers.
December 16, 1988: Virginia Beach, Virginia Nicholas Elliott, 15, opened fire with a SWD Cobray M-11 semiautomatic pistol at Atlantic Shores Christian School, killing teacher Karen Farley and wounding another.
January 17, 1989: Stockton, California Cleveland School massacre Patrick Edward Purdy, 26, killing five children and wounding 29 other students and a teacher. Purdy then killed himself.[52]
Main articles: Columbine High School massacre, Westside Middle School massacre, and Lindhurst High School shooting
According to a survey conducted in 1993 by The Harvard School of Public Health,[53] "15% [of students surveyed] said that they had carried a handgun on their person in the past 30 days, and 4% said that they had taken a handgun to school in the past year," a sharp increase from just five years earlier.
January 8, 1991, Richardson, Texas Jeremy Wade Delle, 15, killed himself with a .357 Magnum in front of his second-period English class. The incident inspired the Pearl Jam song "Jeremy".
November 1, 1991 Iowa City, Iowa University of Iowa shooting Former graduate student Gang Lu, 28, killed four members of the university faculty and one student, and seriously wounded another student, before committing suicide.
May 1, 1992: Olivehurst, California Lindhurst High School shooting Eric Houston, 20, killed four people and wounded 10 in an armed siege at his former high school. Prosecutors said the attack was in retribution for a failing grade.
January 18, 1993: Grayson, Kentucky East Carter High School shooting Scott Pennington, 17, fatally shot his teacher, Deanna McDavid, and head custodian Marvin Hicks.[54]
According to the National School Safety Center, since the 1992-1993 U.S. school year there has been a significant decline in school-associated violent deaths (deaths on private or public school property for kindergarten through grade 12 and resulting from schools functions or activities):[55]
According to the U.S. Department of Education, in the 1998-1999 School Year, 3,523 students (57% High School, 33% Junior High, 10% Elementary) were expelled for bringing a firearm to school.[56]
December 17, 1993, Chelsea, Michigan High school teacher Steven Leith walked out of a staff meeting, returned with a gun, fatally shot the school district's superintendent and wounded the principal and a teacher. The gunman, identified by co-workers as Steve Leith, a science teacher, was arrested at Chelsea High School, the police said. The shooting occurred about an hour after classes ended, during a staff meeting. The Police Chief, Lenard McDougall, said of the suspect: "I found him sitting in a chair in the classroom by himself. He said 'Hi,' and he was taken into custody. He was quiet, very quiet." A 9-millimeter semiautomatic gun was found outside the building, the police said. Joseph Piasecki, superintendent of Chelsea schools, died at Chelsea Community Hospital of multiple gunshot wounds. Phil Jones, 44, an English teacher, was treated for a stomach wound. The principal, Ronald Mead, 43, was shot in the leg.[57]
November 7, 1994: Wickliffe, Ohio (Wickliffe Middle School shooting) Keith Ledeger, 37, a former student at the school, shot and killed custodian Pete Christopher and wounded four other adults.
January 12, 1995: Seattle Washington A 15-year-old Garfield High School student left school during the day and returned with his grandfather's 9mm semiautomatic handgun. He wounded two students.[58]
October 12, 1995: Blackville, South Carolina (Blackville-Hilda High School shooting) Anthony Sincino, 16, killed one teacher and wounded another before committing suicide.
November 15, 1995: Lynnville, Tennessee (Richland High School shooting) James Rouse, 17, killed a student and teacher and seriously wounded another teacher with a .22-caliber rifle.
February 2, 1996: Moses Lake, Washington (Frontier Middle School shooting) Barry Loukaitis, 14, killed a teacher and two students and wounded another student when he opened fire on his algebra class.
August 15, 1996: San Diego, California (San Diego State University shooting) Frederick Martin Davidson, a 36-year-old graduate student killed three professors that he believed were involved in a conspiracy against him.
September 17, 1996: State College, Pennsylvania (Hetzel Union Building shooting) Jillian Robbins, 19, shot and killed one student and injured two outside Pennsylvania State University’s Hetzel Union Building.
February 19, 1997: Bethel, Alaska Bethel Regional High School student Evan Ramsey, 16, shot and killed the school’s principal and one student, and wounded two other students..
October 1, 1997: Pearl, Mississippi (Pearl High School shooting) Luke Woodham, 16, murdered his mother at home before killing his ex-girlfriend and another student and wounding seven others at Pearl High School. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.
November 27, 1997: West Palm Beach, Florida Conniston Middle School student Tronneal Magnum, 14, fatally shot Johnpierre Kamel, 14, outside school after an argument over a wristwatch.[59]
December 1, 1997: West Paducah, Kentucky (Heath High School shooting) Three students were killed and five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle.
December 15, 1997: Stamps, Arkansas Joseph “Colt” Todd, 14, concealed in a wooded area on school grounds, shot and wounded two students as they were entering Stamps High School.[60]
March 24, 1998: Craighead County, Arkansas Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, killed four students and one teacher and wounded ten others as Westside Middle School emptied during a fire alarm intentionally set off by Golden.
April 24, 1998: Edinboro, Pennsylvania (Parker Middle School dance shooting) Andrew Wurst, 14, fatally shot teacher John Gillette, 48, and wounded two students and a teacher at an 8th grade graduation dance.
May 19, 1998: Fayetteville, Tennessee Jacob Davis, 18, shot Robert Creson, 18, in a dispute over a girl.[61]
May 21, 1998: Springfield, Oregon After killing his parents at home, Kip Kinkel,15, drove to Thurston High School where he shot and killed two students and wounded 25 others.
June 15, 1998: Richmond, Virginia A 14-year-old student of Armstrong High School wounded a teacher and a school volunteer.[62]
December 10, 1998: Detroit, Michigan Professor Andrzej Olbrot was killed by graduate student Wlodzimierz Dedecjus, 48.[63]
April 20, 1999: Columbine, Colorado (Columbine High School massacre) Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and one teacher, and wounded 21 others before committing suicide at Columbine High School.
May 20, 1999: Conyers, Georgia (Heritage High School shooting) Six students injured by Thomas Solomon Jr., 15.
November 19, 1999: Deming, New Mexico A 13-year-old girl fatally shot at Deming Middle School by Victor Cordova Jr., 13. Cordova stated he had intended to commit suicide but was jostled by others and the gun moved.[64]
Main articles: Virginia Tech massacre, Red Lake massacre, Amish school shooting, and Northern Illinois University Shooting
February 29, 2000: Flint, Michigan At Buell Elementary School, 6-year-old Dedrick Owens, the youngest-ever school shooter, shot and killed classmate Kayla Rolland.[65]
May 26, 2000: Lake Worth, Florida Lake Worth Middle School Florida teacher Barry Grunow was fatally shot by his student, 13-year-old Nathaniel Brazill, who had returned to school after being sent home at 1 p.m. by the assistant principal for throwing water balloons. Brazill returned to school on his bike with a 5 inch Raven and four bullets stolen from his grandfather the week before. Brazill was an honor student. Grunow was a popular teacher and Brazill's favorite.[65]
August 28, 2000: University of Arkansas shooting at Fayetteville, Arkansas At approximately 12:14 pm, Dr. John R. Locke, 67, Director of the Comparative Literature Program was shot and killed in his office by James E. Kelly, 36, a Comparative Literature PhD candidate who had recently been dismissed from the program for lack of progress towards his degree. Kelly shot Dr. Locke three times before taking his own life in Dr. Locke's office after it was cordoned off by campus police.[66][67][68]
September 26, 2000: Darrel Johnson, 13, offender in Louisiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[65]
March 5, 2001: Charles Andrew William, age 15, offender in California school shooting at Santana High School, 15 wounded 2 of which died.[65]
March 30, 2001: Donald R. Burt Jr., age 18, offender in Indiana school shooting with 1 student fatality.[65]
September 24, 2003: John Jason McLaughlin, age 15, offender in Minnesota school shooting with 2 student fatalities.[65]
February 2, 2004: Unidentified offender in Washington, DC school shooting with 1 student fatality.[65]
May 7, 2004: Unidentified 17 year old offender in Maryland school shooting with 1 student fatality.[65]
March 21, 2005: Jeff Weise, 16 year old offender in Minnesota school shooting. Fatalities include 1 teacher, 5 students, 1 security guard, 2 relatives.[65]
November 8, 2005: Kenny Bartley, age 15, offender in Tennessee school shooting with 1 principal fatality.[65]
August 24, 2006: Christopher Williams walked into Essex Elementary School (Essex, Vermont) and opened fire, killing teacher Alicia Shanks after killing his ex-girlfriend's mother, Linda Lambessis, at home.
September 27, 2006: Duane Roger Morrison walked into Platte Canyon High School (Bailey, Colorado), took six girls hostages and sexually assaulted them. As police entered the classroom he killed one hostage and then shot himself. He died later that day in a nearby Denver hospital. See Platte Canyon High School hostage crisis.[69]
September 29, 2006: Eric Hainstock, 15 year old offender in Weston High School shooting, walked in the school building and shot the high school principal with a handgun after a custodian disarmed him of a shotgun in Cazenovia, Wisconsin.
October 2, 2006: Charles Carl Roberts IV, a 32 year old a milk truck driver, murdered five Amish girls and injured five others before killing himself in an Amish school in the hamlet of Nickel Mines, in Bart Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
April 16, 2007: Seung-Hui Cho, age 23, offender in Virginia Tech massacre. 32 students and faculty were killed, along with another 17 students and faculty injured in two separate attacks on the same day.
February 14, 2008: The Northern Illinois University shooting was a school shooting that took place on February 14, 2008, during which Steven Kazmierczak shot multiple people on the campus of Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Illinois, United States, killing five and injuring 21, before committing suicide.
October 26, 2009: A graduate student fatally shot himself in the presence of a professor, in the professor's office, on the Tempe campus of Arizona State University.[70]

It was only in 1963 when the SCOTUS said School Prayer was not such a good idea because of the many different peoples living in the US who may not pray to the same god as the school leaders did…..

Which do you believe:
My reality based view of school shootings…


The church leader/politician who thinks we just need to start praying in school again to make these shootings stop for ever….

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 6, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
For the sake of simplicity I strongly recommend leaving 2nd amendment rights arguments out of it for now.

SEE, they are already trying to take away your second amendment rights. Arm yourselves! THE LIBERALS ARE COMING! THE LIBERALS ARE COMING!

^That my friend, is the only way to get the gun nuts to participate in the "discussion." The rest of us seem to agree stricter gun regulations are needed... and educated enforcement to prevent the situation described above.

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 6, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
That poster forget the amount of death due to handguns...conveniently. :/

Also, it's misleading in other ways. The "hammer" category is a blunt objects category that includes hammers (if any were used). the "knife" category is really a "cutting or stabbing implements" category that includes knives. Really misleading.

NO ONE keeps records of how many people died by hammer per se. It is recorded in a larger category called 'blunt objects'. The info has NO credibility imo as it appears to try to mislead.

Jan 6, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
We should expand Memorial Day to include those like the Sandy Hook kids who gave their lives for our gun freedoms.

Jan 6, 2013 - 11:03pm PT

I don't know if that's accurate Ron. I did know that the amount of people who die from improper drug prescriptions and reactions (which may not in fact be malpractice) is one of the top ways to die (depending on how you tabulate the numbers)

Trad climber
Jan 6, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
If you include any type of gun in that picture, and then take away hospital deaths due to women, it is only 300x more likely, so that discredits the meme.
Here's one gun that won't kill anymore. &#40;dumped into the water aft...
Here's one gun that won't kill anymore. (dumped into the water after WWII off the coast of Guam)
Credit: tooth

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:21am PT
There are some terrifying things on that link hedge. WE better get some guns to protect ourselves from those nut jobs.
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