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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 12, 2016 - 05:29pm PT
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The confluence is very remote and beautiful but no more special than hundreds of other places remote locations on the river. I have hiked to the confluence. If they kept the tourists on a viewing deck I might be able to get behind the project. If it turned into a shortcut into the canyon my opinion would change. The hike up/down the Little Colorado is pretty epic, and making it more accessible would really have a negative impact.
If this project proceeds the tribe will need to finance 65 million in infrastructure, not sure how they are going to pull that off. Maybe Wall Street can finance it with some juicy bonds, lots of cash to be skimmed on that deal.
The tribal bill is only one step in a the process. There are major boundary disputes to be determined.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Sep 12, 2016 - 05:38pm PT
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I'm so thankful that our forefathers had the insight to protect some places for us to explore.
Yea, I think there's always a question of who the "us" that we're protecting it for is, and having visited that spot with my river tribe a number of times, my sense is that the "us" who is currently enjoying it looks an awful lot like the "us" of our forefathers who protected it in the first place.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2016 - 07:14pm PT
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Thanks for the interest Jon Beck and rbord.
I was blessed to explore this sacred area recently with a Dine Elder.
It seemed pointless to even try to keep count, certainly at least 50 tour helicopters carrying an average of 3 persons, plus half dozen fixed wings carrying 20 persons flew over the Confluence a day. Counting the river runners that might be 500 persons a day breezing through this wild place. All sorts of folks, young and old, strong and weak visiting this place in one way or another.
This is one place we should keep wild,. The Grand Canyon Gondola (or "Escalade Project") is a supremely greedy and short sighted proposal. We have "developed" enough sacred places for now, let's put this idea to rest for a few decades.
(Edited)
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Sep 26, 2016 - 02:33am PT
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So...
You'll be supplying eco friendly jobs to the locals instead?
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2016 - 08:29am PT
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This proposal is anything but "eco-friendly". It is the brainchild of a white millionaire developer from Scottsdale, AZ,
If the "impoverished" locals want jobs such as this proposal would provide, they might be better off moving to Flagstaff or Phoenix, so that they can clean toilets, serve food, and make beds.
Even if the road were paved to the rim, this area would still be at least 75 miles from the nearest city of any size (Flagstaff). Many people feel that if the tribe is truly interested in generating revenue for its people, another casino along I-40 would provide much more return in investment.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Sep 26, 2016 - 08:41am PT
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I am glad to hear that The Dine tribal chairman, a Mr. Begay, is opposed to this.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:03am PT
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There is an unsatisfied demand for eco-tourism on the reservation. The navajo occupy a huge area which in most respects is a culturally genuine representation of indian culture. Anyone who road trips in the Southwest should make the drive between Tuba City AZ and Shiprock NM. The landscape is amazing. There are people out there living traditionally and hardly speak English. There is fast food in Kayenta, but that is the only developed area because it is where Canyon De Chelly is located. It is a shame that this sustainable form of tourism is ignored and they concentrate on pie in the sky dreams like casinos and Disneyland type attractions.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:04am PT
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The confluence is very remote and beautiful but no more special than hundreds of other places remote locations on the river.
This may be true from the perspective of a white visitor but these are Native lands and for Hopis this area is indeed more special than other remote locations on the river. Their sipapulima, or place of emergence from the underworld, is located upstream from the confluence. A short ways down the Colorado are the sacred salt mines which are the traditional culmination of the rite-of-passage pilgrimage bringing Hopi males into adulthood.
Local Navajo opinion (Bodaway Gap Chapter) is evenly divided about the Escalade project. Hopis are adamantly opposed and have vowed to sue in federal court to stop it.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:17am PT
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I haven't read much about this but if this thing is on Hopi land how do the Navajo have
anything to say about it?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:18am PT
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Anyone who road trips in the Southwest should make the drive between Tuba City AZ and Shiprock NM. The landscape is amazing.
I agree, but also recommend driving some of the back roads on the Rez.
There are people out there living traditionally and hardly speak English. There is fast food in Kayenta, but that is the only developed area because it is where Canyon De Chelly is located. It is a shame that this sustainable form of tourism is ignored and they concentrate on pie in the sky dreams like casinos and Disneyland type attractions.
Seems like the only people I see working in Indian casinos are white.
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kief
Trad climber
east side
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:37am PT
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I haven't read much about this but if this thing is on Hopi land how do the Navajo have
anything to say about it?
The Navajo-Hopi land dispute is one of the biggest clusterf*cks in the sorry history of the US relocation of aboriginal peoples. The short version is that the confluence is on Navajo land, but a ruling by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal in 1995 required the preservation of Hopi shrines and sacred places on the Navajo reservation and guaranteed Hopi access to them.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Sep 26, 2016 - 09:50am PT
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Thanks. It is a pity they can't work it out by themselves without it really being messed up
by the US legal industry.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Sep 26, 2016 - 10:52am PT
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Edward Abbey must be rolling in his grave
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Sep 26, 2016 - 10:53am PT
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But I thought the poor Indians were peaceful, earth-loving people without reproach?
Oh, wait, just kidding...
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Oct 12, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
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http://savetheconfluence.com/news/navajo-committee-turns-escalade-first-public-meeting/
The Navajo Nation Law & Order Committee voted UNANIMOUSLY to OPPOSE the Escalade development at the confluence of the Little Colorado and Colorado Rivers. This is the first in a series of several committee meetings before it goes before the full Navajo Council, but it is an encouraging sign!
The other very positive news is that the Navajo Historic Preservation Office (Hataalii Advisory Council) issued a statement strongly opposing the Escalade development. Their powerful statement was read at the Law and Order Committee Meeting. They state clearly that the confluence of the Little Colorado River and Colorado River is a vital and significant cultural landscape and that the proposed development (the tramway, river walk, and rim-top resort) would pose detrimental and irreversible harm to the sacred qualities of the confluence, to Navajo ceremonies, and the Navajo people themselves.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 17, 2016 - 08:32am PT
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The fight to preserve these sacred lands is not over. Be sure to check out savetheconfluence.com to learn more about the issues.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 17, 2016 - 09:51am PT
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What would the Valley be like now, 43 years later?
Wall to wall hotels? Amusement park rides? Ahwanee doubled in size?
Be wary when the camel sticks his nose under the tent.
So true, Disney almost built a resort in Mineral King. The only reason we have a nice paved road to Horseshoe meadow is because the road was built to serve a ski resort that never happened.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Dec 17, 2016 - 08:45pm PT
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China had it's one child policy, but climate change just keeps on marching on. I expect John Muir would think our Yosemite is Disneyland, but we love it like an only child.
Hope the Grand Canyon can hold out a little longer anyway. Nature may have its own way of giving it back to nature.
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