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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 04:25pm PT
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Pic above is hiking in the area of the confluence.
Save the Confluence group has a Facebook page for interested folks to learn more about this issue and form their own opinions. Check out their .com page as well for videos, articles and other discussions.
I "get it" that only about 50.000(?) folks see the confluence a year (mostly by aircraft) and only 5 million persons a year see the Grand Canyon. Must we add another 10,000 a day to one of the most sacred and inspiring places in the world? My belief is that this whole Escalade (or Gondola) project should be stopped so that future generations of the world can experience an extraordinary wild place in its natural state.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Dec 19, 2016 - 04:41pm PT
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Grand Canyon actually hit six million visitors in the middle of this month.
I really think the gondola project is a pipe dream. The developer wants the tribe to borrow millions of dollars to build infrastructure, it is just not going to happen, the Navajo are not that naive.
This battle is going to be won or lost in the courts over the issue of boundaries and the interpretation of the agreements the tribe made with the government when the rez was expanded to the Colorado River. However the election of Trump does not bode well for the protection of any of our wilderness areas.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Dec 19, 2016 - 04:47pm PT
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hikers (in blue) on the right, mid pic. love that trail! would be a shame to ruin such a majestic place in the name of the green back
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
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Right on snakefoot, you may recognize that my buddies are in one of several "do not fall" (i.e. "You fall you die") zones. I like the fact that a handful of folks a year get to experience the confluence on this ancient route and hope that the children I know and their grandchildren get to experience this path if they choose.
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Dec 19, 2016 - 05:02pm PT
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that place is so amazing and i am very hesitant to talk about it , but you know how golden it is. still pristine.. cant even imagine trying to find the way out as complete rebellion was setting in on the white man expedition (powell was a stud) and hardly a direction to go without encountering the ravines. Amazing cave at the bottom also!
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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Some Navajo consider the Little Colorado River (or LCR) as a feminine river and the Colorado River to be masculine. The confluence is where they join. It is an area of much importance to many indigineous peoples, as well as many persons of all colors and cultures from around the world. Part of the magic of the confluence, especially for some 10-20,000 folks every year, is the amount of effort required to reach this place (overwhelmingly by boat). Some believe it to be a spot where many spirits live.
I'm hesitant to talk about it too, snakefoot, but the natural environment may be near extinction due to the mighty dollar and greed. This is a battle in which it seems public awareness may prevent an awful tradegy if this tram were built. This magic would be totally trashed by a gondola from the rim to the confluence. The multi-millionaire developers somehow believe that by building a gift shop and macdonalds at one of the more sacred areas on the planet is going to benefit us all. I still believe that we should protect our wild places so that future generations might get the chance to experience the natural environment.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Dec 19, 2016 - 06:38pm PT
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I remember the first time i drove into Monument Valley, and lamented the "management" of the place.
Navajo sacred place perhaps, but not sacred enough to keep from dotting it with mobile homes that look like litter on the landscape.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 07:04pm PT
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EdB, the trailers you saw is what we call providing "housing" for the locals who have lived in that area for hundreds of years in harmony with the natural environment..
If the gondola is built, we will provide the locals with "jobs", cleaning toilets, refilling vending machines and providing security for the parking area and RV park. A handful of folks mostly white with a few of their bought off brown friends stand to make millions off the tram.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2016 - 10:12am PT
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Bump...
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snakefoot
climber
Nor Cal
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Dec 28, 2016 - 08:11am PT
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nice pic looking east from west side
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 5, 2017 - 07:41pm PT
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Wow!
Thanks pseudalpine for the perspective from Chuar Butte.
The picture above clearly shows exactly where the proposed gondola will go, from upper left to bottom right, rim to river. The Escalade project hopes to bring some 10,000 tourists a day into one of the most pristine and sacred areas in all the desert southwest. Already there are hundreds of people, kids, elderly, handicapped and healthy who see this spot every single day of the year.
It is important to keep some big wilderness areas wild in their natural condition and this is one of those places. Let's put this "Grand Canyon Escalade" project to rest for a few decades.
Learn more about this area on savetheconfluence.com
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2017/10/31/navajo-nation-tribal-council-rejects-plan-build-tram-hotel-grand-canyon/820113001/
Tribal lawmakers reticent of developing sacred land at one of the Seven Natural Wonders of the World said no Tuesday to a multimillion-dollar project to build an aerial tram to take paying visitors to a riverside boardwalk in the Grand Canyon.
The Navajo Nation Tribal Council voted 16-2 during a special session in opposition of the legislation. It was the first time the full council had taken up the measure since it was first introduced last year.
The proposal had gotten a cold reception from lawmakers from the nation's largest American Indian reservation even before Tuesday's lengthy debate.
Some lawmakers raised concerns about the development resulting in more public safety demands, while others questioned a requirement that the tribe help fund infrastructure improvements in the remote area.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nice that some tribal sanity has been injected into this conflict.
If you want to see the view from the bottom of the GC then you have to at least have the initiative to take a float trip. Otherwise leave the place as it is for those numerous folks that value and treasure what it has to offer.
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Sula
Trad climber
Pennsylvania
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Googling suggests that for those who'd like to float the Grand Canyon, disposable cash is an effective substitute for initiative.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2019 - 05:09pm PT
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I haven’t heard much about the gondola in the news lately.
The “Navajo” generating station (coal fired plant) is set to close at the end of the year. It’s a heavily polluting beast and it’s closure will cost the Navajo and Hopi hundreds of millions every year in revenue. (Solar and wind works wonderfully in this part of the country). Presumably, hair brained ideas like this gondola will come back under discussion. Whatever your view on the issue, keep in mind the current plan has 85-88% of profits lining the pockets of multi-millionaire white dude from Scottsdale.
It was cool to see the thoughtful discussion and lovely pictures on this thread.
Long live the wilderness!
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 19, 2019 - 08:30pm PT
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Thanks for starting this thread. Last I heard the tribe is not interested in the gondola to hell. It will not be as easy to build as the skywalk. Hopefully it will not be revived.
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