Grand Canyon, AZ: Gondola??

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the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 6, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
The Navajo Nation is proposing a massive tourist development which includes a Gondola to the confluence of the Colorado and LIttle Colorado Rivers. If you have ever been there you know (hopefully) it is a special place. The development is in the midst of the main canyon and within spitting distance of some very sacred sites for some cultures.

Here is some info from the website:

"Grand Canyon Escalade’s main draw would be the “Escalade” Gondola Tramway, carrying tourists from the Grand Canyon’s South Rim to the Canyon floor. Once there, visitors could walk along a 1,400-foot elevated river walk to the confluence, eat at a restaurant, or visit an amphitheater and terraced grass seating area overlooking the Colorado River. The development would also include a Navajo cultural center and retail and art galleries. Publicity materials claim the project will yield 2,000 jobs at full build-out and generate $50 to $95 million annually for the Navajo Nation. Navajo grassroots activists and neighbors of the project say local attitudes about it are sharply divided, creating tension in the community and pitting neighbors against one another. Several members of one grassroots group formed to oppose Escalade marched last week from the confluence to Navajo governmental offices in Window Rock, to make their opposition known." [Around a 100 mile hike]


Here is a link to a site with more info:

http://savetheconfluence.com/opposition-continues-for-the-grand-canyon-escalade/#more-997


I have no affiliation with this group, just wanted to raise some awareness.

Long live wild places.
Albert Newman
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 6, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
That sounds swell! Are there plans for a dam near the confluence to facilitate ADA swimming? Golly, I sure hope so.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Dec 6, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
Wow!
No thank you
dave Sparrows

Trad climber
AZ
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
The way I see it, we took all of their land at one point, so let them do what they want with what little they have left. It will probably be a nice cash influx for the Hualapai people. I mean look what we (the white man) are doing at the Arizona Snow Bowl/ Agassiz Peak; a sacred sight of the Navajo and Hopi people that we now spread human waste (Grey water) on to make snow. I know two wrongs do not make a right, but I say just leave them alone, it is their land to do what they please with it.

EDIT: Misunderstanding- I thought it was the Hualapai not the Navajo with the gondola proposal.
adrian korosec

climber
Tucson
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:38pm PT
Sounds like a great idea! If we could establish a way to pay to climb towers legally too it would be great. The Navajo Nation has every right increase revenue via natural resources provided it's done in a responsible, thought out manner.

I don't get the hatred of making certain wild places more accessible to the masses who otherwise could not enjoy them.

A gondola to the bottom of the Grand Canyon sounds great. A nice restaurant and gift shop at the bottom with mountain hut type lodging would be in order as well.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
"Albatross",

So if they get this...do we get free reign over all Reservation towers?

Tit for tat?

Hope all is well and you are getting out.

Jeremy Aslaksen
Dave Kos

Trad climber
Temecula
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
Hey, we took all of their land [...]

Who is "we" ?

Who is "they" ?

Those who took and those who were taken from are long dead.


Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:48pm PT
I do not believe that the confluence is on tribal land so NPS approval would be required, ain't gonna happen.

Very true Dave, the Navajo pushed out other cultures when they "invaded" North America, ironically around the same time Columbus "discovered" America

TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
Will they serve drinks?
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Dec 6, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
FREE THE TOWERS AND SERVE DRINKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

adrian korosec

climber
Tucson
Dec 6, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
here here!
crunch

Social climber
CO
Dec 6, 2012 - 06:47pm PT
The way I see it, we took all of their land at one point, so let them do what they want with what little they have left. It will probably be a nice cash influx for the Hualapai people. I mean look what we (the white man) are doing at the Arizona Snow Bowl/ Agassiz Peak; a sacred sight of the Navajo and Hopi people that we now spread human waste (Grey water) on to make snow. I know two wrongs do not make a right, but I say just leave them alone, it is their land to do what they please with it.

hey, david sparrows, it does not work that way. This is anglo developers, and their deep pockets, steamrolling over the Navajos, just like it usually is. The Fulcrum Group LLC, along with Confluence Partners LLC are pushing to develop this Gondola project. Lamar Whitmer is one of the Fulcrum Group. He was treasurer of Snowbowl a few years ago. He lives in Scottsdale, as does his friend Todd Borowsky. Todd's father, Eric Borowsky, owns the Snowbowl resort.

Same people, same developers, same money. They don't give a sh!t about anything except their profits. They have pockets deep enough to ensure that there's some buy in by powerful tribal members (like President Shelly) to keep this thing moving, just as there was back when Peabody pushed for mining coal.

Here:

http://navajotimes.com/news/2012/0412/041712whit.php



Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 6, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
Screwed up. Not everyone has a right to go everywhere. That's why these are special places. Keep the Wild West wild, m'er f'ers!
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Dec 6, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
Nice Crusher, and thanks for the info Albert.

10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:11pm PT
hey, david sparrows, it does not work that way. This is anglo developers, and their deep pockets, steamrolling over the Navajos, just like it usually is.

I read an article about this a few weeks ago. Crunch is correct. It's the white man pushing it, but he has got the Navajo to buy into it because he is promising jobs. The Hopi are strictly opposed to the idea.
Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:27pm PT
The hopi are the only true ancestors of those parts. The navajos are roughly 500 years new.


They got the land becuase they would work with the white man.

Those mountians are not sacred, they are just retarded mooches.

Ask any hopi
bigwall shitter

Social climber
the wild west
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
that confluence is one of the coolest places around, swimming in the warm aquamarine blue waters of the Little C wearing yer birthday suit in full view of the old folks from illinois bumbling down the boardwalk.

Go ahead and build!
Gene

climber
Dec 6, 2012 - 07:46pm PT
Maybe they could put in an oyster farm as well.

g
deuce4

climber
Hobart, Australia
Dec 6, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
^^^
Actually, it was the Hopi who were peaceful and worked with the early settlers in the region. The Navajo resisted, were forcibly re-located, but eventually signed a peace treaty and were allowed to return.

But the Hopi, who cooperated with USA's "manifest destiny" and didn't fight, never got a treaty, and ever since have seen their tribal lands diminish (and bit by bit, it still continues to diminish).

See http://www.viewzone.com/day6.html for a map.

The current reality is that the Navajo are politically organised and comprise a sizeable voting population in the four corners region. Both tribes are wonderful people, but the Navajo ended up with the better end of white man's deal, to be certain.

Not sure how I feel about the tramway. It's a beautiful area, and increased access will expose many to the beauty of the Southwest. I've spent a lot of time in that area, it's tough to get down there, and I'd be hard pressed to say that only the rugged individual can visit. Of course there will be impact from a tramway, but in this day and age, economic benefit that's dependent on natural environmental beauty, rather than involving its destruction, might be the better way forward in general. There are those who still would be calling for more dams on the Colorado, most likely, if it weren't for the significant commercialisation of the river running industry.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 6, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
Thank you for all of the thoughtful replies.

I like the idea of exposing "wild places" (like Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Grand Tetons, Zion National Parks, et. al.) to as many persons as possible. Hopefully those persons, like most all of us, will realize the value of wilderness in an ever increasingly complex world. Even if we don't fully understand the reasons yet, it seems to be of interest to keep some places in their natural state.

In regards to persons with special needs in experiencing The Canyon, a lot of options come to mind: IMAX at Tusayan, helicopter and fixed wing air tours, donkey rides to the bottom and river trips. Plus the thirty miles of pavement on the South Rim. I think that sh1t is even on Google earth now. Lots of ways to experience the place for people of all interests and abilities.

I like to think this proposal would somehow help the peoples of the Navajo Nation and the rest of the world. General observations and experience prove otherwise. I would prefer this idea be scrapped.

crusher: AZ Snowbowl is set to start snowmaking next week. Like the rest of the country, we have had one of the driest, warmest Fall seasons (and years) on record. Thanks for the moneygrubbers link...

Jeremy: we are still playing in the sand and there is room; you and SB and JM know where...

Keep it wild.
Albert

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