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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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If you want to talk substance, you can try to answer this.
Steve left really old worn out ropes up on the wall for a month. He says that they are old and so stiff and cable like that it is difficult to rap on them.
Why would ANY reasonable person NOT think they were abandoned garbage?
There are thirty posts and I think only two even try.
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WBraun
climber
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I wasn't talking to you Locker, you know that?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
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locker, that is because your ethics and your friend's ethics are situational depending on who you are dealing with an if you like them.
It's not, "It's wrong to take down an old rope that's been left for a month."
Instead its:
"It's wrong to take down an old rope that's been left by a friend or someone I know and like. But if I don't know them or I don't like them then its not so bad."
By the way, I think I may have seen you in the parking lot for Hall of Horrors several years ago when I came down to climb in J-Tree over Christmas. Also, I almost used your resole services once, but ended up going with the Rubber Room instead.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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I admit I cannot summon any interest or passion on the initial forum topic of this thread (fixed ropes, bfd) but I do agree that it's extraordinarily poor form to be posting anonymously to supertopo. This forum is a bit unusual in that most of the regulars know one another personally, through mutual freinds, or by reputation. I generally ignore threads started or posts made by oddfellows like graniteclimber. He has never posted anything that has interested me in any way at all. Which is probably fine, btw, with him as well as me. Although it's damning to have to admit I was far more captivated with LEB (good riddance) than the graniteclimber. With him, I simply don't give a f*#k.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
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Care to EXPLAIN???...
Like I said, ask gf. Jim could tell you the story also, but he's not talking. gf and I were at it and I posted this thinking it was him. He corrected me and asked me to delete it. I deleted it from the thread but did not remember that it was saved to the photo's folder. I don't normally use the photo's folder and haven't even looked at since I'd put it there... So when you dragged it out I saw that it was there, I deleted it, as I would have done 2 years ago if I remembered it was there.
The decent thing for you to would be to delete it also, from your folder and this thread.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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To KNOW my ethics would mean that you KNOW me...
I DO know you and so does everyone else here. You can't make over 35,000 posts and not leave something of yourself.
Your ethics, your preference for women's butts, your buttplug humour, it's all there.
Edit to respond to your edit:
I am TRYING like hell to give you the benifit of the doubt...
.
I really don't care what you believe. Don't try to negotiate what I have to give you "or else." Just believe what you want about me.
I'm not demanding anything from you to force me not change my opinion of you.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:39pm PT
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Cookies or fruitcakes? LOL
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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I haven't read through all of the other thread yet (parts of it I have yesterday) but I didn't see anyone presenting this idea. I'll check today and make adjustments to this post as needed.
Instead of someone deciding that they were punishing Steve because of the WOS incident (which I doubt because, forgiveness and who cares and all)
Or that the condition of the lines mattered to the person taking them.
Maybe a better way of looking at the 24+ hours is trash/abandoned line of thinking is...
What if the person was peeved at Steve because the fixed lines for a long time on Real Nose was a continuation of the issue with the fixed lines for a long time on Lost in America earlier in the spring/summer this year. I remember mark posting about them and a mention of them in the "bags being thrown off the top of el cap/ steve quoted as saying ~"local privileges" thread
They might say, Steve fixed lines forever then, he fixed lines forever now, the only way to make that stop is to get rid of them.
I don't really have a horse in this game and don't care either way, but it seemed weird that this line of thought wasn't addressed as a possibility.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 01:55pm PT
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The bottom line is that when I saw Steve's post, I had a strong initial opinion and I posted it.
I think that someone removed what they saw as abandoned property.
I also thought it was funny and ironic that Steve, with own history of vandalizing gear at the base of El Cap" was going into such hysterics about his old crappy ropes being removed from El Cap-- how it was a felony, providing a culprit profile modeled, he admitted, from "Law and Order", offering a cash reward for "information leading to the arrest and prosecution of said culprit", had already called the rangers, and so forth.
But I see that as being different from whether something wrong was done. If there was theft of property, it would be just as wrong if it was Steve's property or someone else's. It does not matter whether it is someone I like or someone I don't like, or a climber or a non-climber, or a good climber or a crappy climber.
Same with my opinion. If you dont' agree with it, then don't -- it should not matter if you know me personally, or know my name, or if I'm a climber or I'm not.
But locker, you, Pete and others for some reason have to know who I am before you can decide whether you agree or not with my opinion.
It's the same with the ropes. What I'm seeing is that if the ropes are left by someone in the camp 4 "inner circle" they are special and should be left there indefinitely, even for years. But if they belong to someone else that we don't know or care about it's just a trash removal problem.
So let me repeat the question in a more general way. Forget about Steve's ropes.
When are ropes left on the rock for weeks or months trash and when are they not trash?
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John M
climber
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I think that someone removed what they saw as abandoned property.
Since you insist on everyone answering your question, why not answer this question?
If the people who removed them saw them as garbage, then why did they only remove the lower portion, leaving "garbage" up higher with no link to it so that it is now much more difficult to remove?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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locker, that is because your ethics and your friend's ethics are situational depending on who you are dealing with an if you like them.
It's not, "It's wrong to take down an old rope that's been left for a month."
Instead its:
"It's wrong to take down an old rope that's been left by a friend or someone I know and like. But if I don't know them or I don't like them then its not so bad."
this is the problemo that GC is taking folks to task for....i might not have done it in this instance but hey, callin people on their sh#t on this site is a specialty just dont do it to my friends....thats the norm that most posters on here dont seem ready to acknowledge.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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this is the problemo that GC is taking folks to task for....i might not have done it in this instance but hey, callin people on their sh#t on this site is a specialty just dont do it to my friends....thats the norm that most posters on here dont seem ready to acknowledge.
Then why leave a rope up high? Other than just pure dickery?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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There's a camp 4 inner circle? Who dat?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
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If the people who removed them saw them as garbage, then why did they only remove the lower portion, leaving "garbage" up higher with no link to it so that it is now much more difficult to remove?
That is a fair question, John.
Maybe because they didn't think of that and thought that removing some trash was better then nothing.? Maybe they intended to get it all but ran out of daylight?
Maybe they saw it as abandoned but still having some use. So they saw it as both a public service in removing abandoned ropes but also getting booty?
If they thieves and saw these ropes as being really valuable property they were stealing, wouldn't they have taken everything?
Edit: If the ropes had a note left on them with contact information or the date they would be taken down, I would say they were probably stolen. Was there a note?
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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GC, are you really that obtuse?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Yo Granite, why is it so scary to say who you are and what you've climbed anyway?
Rokjox?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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EDITED:
To Hawkeye:
My GUESS is that you are joining the Graniteclimber Bandwagon simply because you catch so much hell in the political threads...
But then like I said, JUST a guess...
not at all.
GC and i disagree on the politard threads....i just see him identifying sh#t that others disagree with.
if this had been some no never mind normal climber who didnt know anyone on this web site, they would have been shat on for leaving their ropes up for so long.
different people different standards.....i dont care one way or another about fixed ropes but agree that it sucks that someone took them.
but the issue that GC is calling some out on is the different people=different standards and thats BS.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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I haven't read through all of the other thread yet (parts of it I have yesterday) but I didn't see anyone presenting this idea. I'll check today and make adjustments to this post as needed.
Instead of someone deciding that they were punishing Steve because of the WOS incident (which I doubt because, forgiveness and who cares and all)
Or that the condition of the lines mattered to the person taking them.
Maybe a better way of looking at the 24+ hours is trash/abandoned line of thinking is...
What if the person was peeved at Steve because the fixed lines for a long time on Real Nose was a continuation of the issue with the fixed lines for a long time on Lost in America earlier in the spring/summer this year. I remember mark posting about them and a mention of them in the "bags being thrown off the top of el cap/ steve quoted as saying ~"local privileges" thread
They might say, Steve fixed lines forever then, he fixed lines forever now, the only way to make that stop is to get rid of them.
I don't really have a horse in this game and don't care either way, but it seemed weird that this line of thought wasn't addressed as a possibility.
This had not occurred to me? Is there a connection between this and the "Pete is a Tosser" scandal? I did not realize that Pete was even part of this until he started ripping into me and making accusations.
If there is a connection, this is really ironic, because my only contribution to the multiple threads attackign Pete was to defend him: http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1935278&msg=1944038#msg1944038
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
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Let's pull the portrait shot of the well known Canadian locker, thanks in advance. He has nothing to do with anything that goes on here.
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