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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Fair enough!!!...
I openly RETRACT my previous comment...(EDITED: I removed it)
;-)
no! that doesnt seem fair! :) now after whining i seem to have the spirit of this thread.
werner, i disagree. but have at it. i think it was wrong that someone stole steve's ropes. and i dont give a sh#t about them one or the other. but as a side note, how did you learn so much about gerbils?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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because I'm not an old dog climber, my opinion and logic on every topic known is, by default, less valuable or appropriate.
all other things equal, accomplished folks known to the community get more respect especially on grey area judgment calls when it comes to climbing.
that's entirely proper. skill, experience and history matter in that context. when it comes to sar, for instance, werner's judgments carry a lot more weight than do those of some random. when it comes to el cap, steve's judgments carry more weight than do those of some random.
doesn't mean there isn't a fair bit of throne-sniffing and kissup-kickdown on this site and elsewhere in climbing, like there is in virtually every other corner of human life. but that sordid little fact doesn't change the basic notion which is that expertise and competence matter, and that we base our judgments of the judgments of others partly on our experience of their record.
so no, steve's practice isn't going to get judged exactly the way that one would the practice of joe schmoe. i think the line between steve's fixing and dp's watkins deal is really clear. steve would've been better off getting the word out verbally, rather than posting it all up online. but yeah, he's going to get cut more slack (was it one month or 6 weeks, who really cares?) than someone who hasn't made major investments in yosemite climbing.
so far as stuff outside climbing, from music to politics, i could care less. i have zero interest in ted nugent's view on politics. if he wants to say something smart about byrdlands, i'll listen. same here. i have no idea why so many folks on st spend so much of their time fighting with, say, the chief, over his views of climate science or lance armstrong.
if you want favorable attention on a climbing forum, much less respect, the best way to get it is to post some climbing content. and despite the aging star power, the bar isn't that high. grovel up some stupid little hill on the eastside-- go out and repeat some of the sh#t many of us climbed back in the seventies and eighties or earlier. take some pixs and try to say something halfway amusing about it in a tr.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I hope to keep doing it for years so I can one day berate a less-experienced climber about their choice of car color or hairstyle. They'll have no ground to stand on, obviously.
That's a good idea. When I started out on this site a total non climber told me that I don't know sh#t about climbing because I have a low number of posts. F*#k people like that.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Upthread, what Kerwin is trying to get at is this: When it comes to bouldering, I AM the motherf*#king Oracle and you should all get used to it.
American Legend, bitches. Learn it. Know it. Deal with it.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oh...and don't be taxin' it widout waxin' it neither!
A buff and a fluff and you're done in a Puff and I do mean Brenda$$$$$$$$$$$
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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SWOLL!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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Unfortunately for you, Chris Mac actually will beat you out of here for that particular offense against that particular person. It's the "turd" precedent, a well known case here on the SuperTaco.
I see no banning....
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Prod
Trad climber
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I can't believe I just read this whole thread. And there was no poop! WTF? Cut ropes and no "COILED ROPE" on the ropes. Weak sauce.
Prod.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 5, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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all other things equal, accomplished folks known to the community get more respect especially on grey area judgment calls when it comes to climbing.
that's entirely proper. skill, experience and history matter in that context. when it comes to sar, for instance, werner's judgments carry a lot more weight than do those of some random. when it comes to el cap, steve's judgments carry more weight than do those of some random.
doesn't mean there isn't a fair bit of throne-sniffing and kissup-kickdown on this site and elsewhere in climbing, like there is in virtually every other corner of human life. but that sordid little fact doesn't change the basic notion which is that expertise and competence matter, and that we base our judgments of the judgments of others partly on our experience of their record.
so no, steve's practice isn't going to get judged exactly the way that one would the practice of joe schmoe. i think the line between steve's fixing and dp's watkins deal is really clear. steve would've been better off getting the word out verbally, rather than posting it all up online. but yeah, he's going to get cut more slack (was it one month or 6 weeks, who really cares?) than someone who hasn't made major investments in yosemite climbing.
so far as stuff outside climbing, from music to politics, i could care less. i have zero interest in ted nugent's view on politics. if he wants to say something smart about byrdlands, i'll listen. same here. i have no idea why so many folks on st spend so much of their time fighting with, say, the chief, over his views of climate science or lance armstrong.
if you want favorable attention on a climbing forum, much less respect, the best way to get it is to post some climbing content. and despite the aging star power, the bar isn't that high. grovel up some stupid little hill on the eastside-- go out and repeat some of the sh#t many of us climbed back in the seventies and eighties or earlier. take some pixs and try to say something halfway amusing about it in a tr.
I think it is a big mistake to think that a champion of any sport has superior judgment over all aspects of his sport.
They are experts in the aspects of their sport that allows them to win, but usually do not have any superior judgment in aspects such as ethics.
If you want to know what you need to do win a bike race, Lance Armstrong can tell you what you need to do. But I do not think he has much to offer regarding ethics. If you took the riders that finish in the top 50% of a bike race, I don't think they have better judgment in ethics then the riders who finish in the bottom 50%.
You see the same in every sport.
Would you concede superior judgment to Bil Clinton or any other President on issues of ethics in politics?
Take a bouldering champion. He will have superior judgment in how to climb boulders, what moves work best, how to train for bouldering, what problems are climbable. But his skills in bouldering would not provide any special expertise in ethics in the sport or out of the sport.
He may have superior judgment in ethics, or other areas, but this won't be because he is a good boulderer.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Granit climber ur lame
the shipoopi is rad in everything he does.
i love it when he boulders around Jtree with his lingerie on!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Anonymous by necessity...
Wholly mediocre in your thinking...
Beyond dull in your climbing experience...
The question being begged is:
Why are you worthy of any attention?
Your comparative value please...
Even the Evil Squirrels are laughing at you!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Graniteclimber, you are kind of lame, even for a troll.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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I think it is a big mistake to think that a champion of any sport has superior judgment over all aspects of his sport.
not only would it be a mistake, it would be dysfunctional, since even "champions" fight all the time over proper judgments within their specialties. robbins, harding, etc.
what i said was that in any given field, the judgments of folks who are accomplished and active in that field are given more weight than the judgments of randoms.
it doesn't mean their judgments are beyond question. but i have a hard time seeing this as a marginal case. given that rope fixing on el cap is currently an accepted practice, and given that even the current 24-hr limit has accepted and acceptable exceptions, the question becomes, is this within the bounds of acceptable practice?
he's a credible person, no one has suggested he was poaching or ganking a trade route. his intent to clean the ropes is substantiated by the fact that he went back to clean them in between the storms. given the circumstances as described in these threads, i can't see good grounds for describing the ropes as abandoned trash.
whoever yarded some of the ropes while leaving the upper one fixed, on the other hand, turned at least part of the fix into trash. culpability here is with whoever was either so lowball that they wanted to snake some beater static line or had a vendetta.
that said, steve has obviously had kinder and gentler experiences in Yos than I've had: i'm not surprised that a fixed rope would get gleeped during the off-season. as perry gently hinted, it seems to me part of the price of doing business.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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I have to think Tommy and crew on Mescalito have been using fixed lines to work their line as well. If folks think Steve shouldn't be using his, we'd have to consider whether that applies to them as well
I think the whole long term fixed line thing is unfortunate but grant that limited exceptions for exceptional projects may be acceptable. If freeing (particularly repeating) big walls becomes popular, it's unacceptable in my mind if the stone becomes strewn with fixed lines on a bunch of the Go-free routes all the time
Particularly freerider
Peace
Karl
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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I have to think Tommy and crew on Mescalito have been using fixed lines to work their line as well. If folks think Steve shouldn't be using his, we'd have to consider whether that applies to them as wel
I don't think Steve was trying to free that line. Not like it matter, his stuff should not have been taken by some random dude. Especially leaving the highest line fixed in the middle of the wall- total dick move. Someone probably has something against him. Is it time to let this thread die?
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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You should hold a contest to see who can hijack graniteclimbers threads the best. Take all of his threads/posts comments ect... and make them political....
So far Werner has the best comments about Gerbils
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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We have no proof that mr anonymous is in fact a granite climber since he has refused all requests about identity or what he has climbed or who might vouch for his alleged skill level.
So until that happens, he's a zero with zero experience and zero partners.
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jstan
climber
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The discussion seems to be settling down. (It could have started here right off the bat.)
So is there a consensus? Suppose one with no information has observed fixed lines over a three month period. There seem to be three options.
1. No action
2. Inform Jesse of their presence
3. Remove them (all) and take them to Lost and Found
After all of this it would be good if we would get something out of it.
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WBraun
climber
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Listen up.
The stupid gerbil sh!t eating tool Granite has always been a sh1thead here.
Not that care.
What drew the line for me is when he purposely disrupted a recent thread and cause Mchale to delete all his posts.
The dumb fuk Anders was riding the gerbil eating tools coat tails also to disrupt.
I then deleted all mine in that thread too as my own protest against this stupid sh!t.
Not that it even matters nor anyone cares, I just did that for me.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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graniteclimber has been posting (and contributing) here for more than six years, often on climbing threads. Overall it's pretty clear that he is a climber, although I've never met him/her, and don't know who she/he is. In any event, if he was (perish the thought!) a non-climber posting on a climbers' forum, isn't it a little late to be making an issue of it?
As climbers don't own El Capitan or Yosemite, graniteclimber is as free as any member of the public to express his views on the use and users of those places. His views may be better informed, the more of a climber that he is - at least with regard to purely climbing matters. But even if he's a non-climber who's never been to Yosemite, perhaps he has something to contribute.
That said, if GC has personal issues with regard to SS, we probably don't need to hear about them.
Enough of the dog-pile routine already.
As for conspiracy theory threads - at least one of which the administrators recently deleted, which says something - if you don't post them, I won't satirize them, or help others to do so.
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