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Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 10:50am PT
Coz wrote

Thanks for the typical sanctimonious crap Karl.

This thread is to honor vets. Who do fight for peace and freedoms, the very ones u enjoy.

Shameful!

Thanks to my parents who served.
All the team guys I've train the last 25 years and to all those currently in uniform u are hero's and a grateful nation thanks you.

You can thank me for bumping this thread, which I had to pull up from page three. I agree about our parent's service. WW2 was about the last war that had anything to do with protecting America's freedom, although Korea could be perhaps justified as protecting the Korean's freedom.

after that, the veterans have my compassion as victims of our government, not because they are truly fighting for freedom, because they aren't.

And I'd like to see any evidence to the contrary. So why continue this myth that soldiers are these heroes sacrificing themselves so we can be free? It's now a lie and making this our societies narrative only allows the politicians to have cover for stupid wars while getting poor kids to volunteer for something that can rip their lives apart while doing us no good.

It has to stop. Even Afghanistan was a total sham and waste of time. The hijackers were Saudi and the money came from there too. As soon as we leave, the place is going right back to hell and isn't good now.

So stop it. I'm sorry for the state of veterans in this country and do not seek to blame them. They are victims of our corrupt government and military industrial complex. But the guys I know who joined the service did so because they wanted to kick ass, not to save the world, and the guys who joined the service that others tell me about, joined because of the socialistic style benefits that the service provides... subsidized housing, food, health care, and college.

So why do we need a special category of honoring these people? So they will continue to volunteer for the military, getting killed for the interests of big business? I'm done with that and call foul. I'd rather honor Daniel Ellsberg for risking his freedom to get the troops home from vietnam when the government was telling boldface lies about our 'progress' there. Or Bradly Manning, who risked his freedom to out the BS of our current military. These guys actually DID fight for our freedom but found themselves in jail.

I conclude with the words of a super war hero, two time medal of honor winner, General Smedly Butler

“War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 10:59am PT
So why do we need a special category of honoring these people?

Bloody hell, Karl's right. Let's get rid of all the celebrations this country devotes itself to.

• National Poverty in America Awareness Month - January
• Family Fit Lifestyle Month - January
• New York City Restaurant Week - January 16 - February 10, 2012
• Cervical Cancer Awareness Month - January
• National Personal Trainer Awareness Day - January 2
• National Book Blitz Month - January
• National Personal Self-Defense Awareness Month - January
• National Blood Donor Month - January
• International Quality of Life Month - January
• International Creativity Month - January
• National Birth Defects Prevention Month - January
• Financial Wellness Month - January
• Customer Service Day - January 17
• National Trivia Day - January 4
• National Glaucoma Awareness Month - January
• National Mentoring Month - January
• National Personal Trainer Awareness Week - 1st Week in January
• National Radon Action Month - January
• National Thank Your Customers Week - 1st Week in January
• New Year's Day - January 1
• Thyroid Awareness Month - January
• Women's Self-Empowerment Week - 1st Week in January
• Hunt for Happiness Week - 3rd Week in January
• Martin Luther King, Jr. Day - 3rd Monday in January
• Get to Know Your Customer Day - January 20
• A National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation - January 20
• National Handwriting Day - January 23
• Thank Your Mentor Day - January 26
• Youth Leadership Month - February
• Marfan Syndrome Awareness Month - February
• Black History Month - February
• National Patient Recognition Week - February 1 - February 7
• Library Lovers Month - February
• Burn Awareness Month - February
• Groundhog Day - February 2
• American Heart Month - February
• President's Day - 3rd Monday in February
• Plant The Seeds Of Greatness Month - February
• Aggressive Driving Month - February
• National Weddings Month - February
• Chinese New Year - February 10
• National Parent Leadership Month - February
• National Time Management Month - February
• Valentine's Day - February 14
• Women's Heart Health Week - 1st Week in February
• World Marriage Day - 2nd Sunday in February
• National Athletic Training Month - March
• National Umbrella Month - March
• American Red Cross Month - March
• March for Babies - March 1 - April 31
• National Ethics Awareness Month - March
• National Nutrition Month - March
• St. Patrick's Day - March 17
• National Social Work Month - March
• Irish-American Heritage Month - March
• Return the Borrowed Books Week - 1st Week in March
• National Eye Donor Month - March
• National Optimism Month - March
• Youth Violence Prevention Week - Last Week in March
• Colorectal Cancer Education and Awareness Month - March
• Workplace Eye Safety Month - March
• Purim - March 7 - March 8, 2012
• National Craft Month - March
• National Sleep Awareness Week - March 7 - March 13
• National Women's History Month - March
• Poison Prevention Awareness Month - March
• Save Your Vision Month - March
• Steroid Abuse Prevention Month - March
• World TB Day - March 24
• International Women's Day - March 8
• Girl Scout Week - March 11 - March 17, 2012
• National Children's Craft Day - March 14
• Inhalants and Poisons Awareness Week - 3rd Week in March
• Procrastination Awareness Month - April
• National Child Abuse Prevention Month - April
• Cancer Control Month - April
• Patient Safety Awareness Month - April
• Easter - 1st Sunday in April
• Facial Protection Month - April
• Get Yourself Tested Month - April
• Jazz Appreciation Month - April
• National Autism Awareness Month - April
• National Oral Health Month - April
• National Public Health Week - 1st Week in April
• Prematurity Awareness Month - April
• Sports Eye Safety Month - April
• National Stress Awareness Month - April
• National Occupational Therapy Month - April
• Alcohol Awareness Month - April
• Youth Sports Safety Month - April
• World Hemophilia Day - April 17
• Women's Eye Health and Safety Month - April
• Administrative Professionals Week - Last Week in April
• Sexual Assault Awareness Month - April
• April Fools' Day - April 1
• National DARE Day - 1st Thursday in April
• Earth Day - April 22
• National Car Care Month - April
• Administrative Professionals Day - Last Wednesday in April
• National Playground Safety Week - Last Week in April
• National Motorcycle Safety Month - May
• Bicycle Safety Month - May
• National Arthritis Month - May
• Better Hearing and Speech Month - May
• Loyalty Day - May 1
• ALS Awareness Month - May
• National Electric Safety Month - May
• Substitute Teacher Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• School Principal's Day - May 1
• National Women's Health Week - 1st Week in May
• National Cancer Research Month - May
• Asian Pacific American Heritage Month - May
• Child Nutrition Employee Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• National Teen Self-Esteem Month - May
• National Pet Week - 1st Week in May
• Be Kind to Animals Week - 1st Week in May
• Brain Tumor Action Week - 1st Week in May
• Haitian Heritage Month - May
• Heal the Children Month - May
• Healthy Vision Month - May
• Huntington's Disease Awareness Month - May
• Meditation Month - May
• National Mental Health Month - May
• Melanoma & Skin Cancer Prevention Month - May
• National Bike Month - May
• National Charter Schools Week - 1st Week in May
• Children's Book Week - 1st Week in May
• National Foster Care Month - May
• National Hepatitis Awareness Month - May
• National Neurofibromatosis Awareness Month - May
• Get Caught Reading Month - May
• Tay-Sachs and Canavan Diseases Awareness Month - May
• Family Wellness Month - May
• National Stuttering Awareness Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Stroke Awareness Month - May
• National Tourism Week - 1st Week in May
• Fibromyalgia Education and Awareness Month - May
• National Lupus Awareness Month - May
• International Multiple Sclerosis Month - May
• North American Occupational Safety and Health Week - 1st Week in May
• Goodwill Industries Week - 1st Week in May
• Public Service Recognition Week - 1st Week in May
• National Safe Kids Week - 1st Week in May
• Teachers Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• High Blood Pressure Education Month - May
• Clean Air Month - May
• Reading Is Fun Week - 2nd Week in May
• Teachers Appreciaton Day - May 3
• Older Americans Month - May
• National Physical Fitness and Sports Month - May
• National Osteoporosis Prevention Month - May
• Cinco de Mayo - May 5
• Join Hands Day - 1st Saturday in May
• National Nurses Week - May 6 - May 12
• Nurses Day - May 6
• Child Care Provider Day - May 7
• National Hospital And Healthcare Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Employee Health & Fitness Day - 3rd Wednesday in May
• Food Allergy Awareness Week - 2nd Week in May
• Memorial Day - Last Monday in May
• National School Nurse Day - May 8
• National Oral, Head, and Neck Cancer Awareness Week - May 8 - May 14
• Salvation Army Week - May 8 - May 15
• World Red Cross Day - May 8
• National Student Nurses Day - May 8
• International Nurses Day - May 12
• National Police Week - May 13 - May 19, 2012
• National Running and Fitness Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Nursing Home Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Transportation Week - 1st Week in May
• Mother's Day - 2nd Sunday in May
• National EMS Week - 3rd Week in May
• National Safe Boating Week - May 21 - May 27
• National Emergency Medical Services Week - 3rd Week in May
• Click It or Ticket Mobilization Week - Last Week in May
• National Senior Health and Fitness Day - May 26
• World No Tobacco Day - May 31
• Fireworks Safety Month - June
• Dairy Month - June
• National Family Month - June
• Sports America Kids Month - June
• Sun Safety Week - June 1 - June 7
• Great Outdoors Month - June
• Children's Awareness Month - June
• National Tire Safety Month - June
• Vision Research Month - June
• International Men's Month - June
• Cancer From The Sun Month - June
• Appreciate Your Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling Professionals Week - 4th Week in June
• International Childhood Cancer Campaign Month - June
• Effective Communications Month - June
• Home Safety Month - June
• World Environment Day - June 5
• Perennial Gardening Month - June
• Professional Wellness Month - June
• Gay and Lesbian Pride Month - June
• National Aphasia Awareness Month - June
• Rebuild Your Life Month - June
• National Safety Month - June
• National Business Etiquette Week - 1st Week in June
• Carpenter Ant Awareness Week - 3rd Week in June
• National Myasthenia Gravis Awareness Month - June
• National Candy Month - June
• National Student Safety Month - June
• Rose Month - June
• Flag Day - June 14
• National Rivers Month - June
• National Headache Awareness Week - 1st Week in June
• Consumer Awareness Week - 3rd Week in June
• National Automotive Service Professionals Week - 2nd Week in June
• Eye Safety Awareness Week - Last Week in June
• Families in Business Week - 2nd Week in June
• Take A Kid Fishing Weekend - June 10 - June 12, 2012
• National Men's Health Week - June 11 - June 17, 2012
• National Flag Week - June 12 - June 18
• Fathers Day - 3rd Sunday in June
• National Nursing Assistants Week - June 14 - June 21, 2012
• National Health Care Risk Management Week - June 20 - June 24
• National Mosquito Control Awareness Week - 4th Week in June
• Purposeful Parenting Month - July
• Herbal Prescription Awareness Month - July
• Social Wellness Month - July
• International Group B Strep Awareness Month - July
• National Vehicle Theft Protection Month - July
• Parents Day - 4th Sunday in July
• National Black Family Month - July
• National Hemochromatosis Screening and Awareness Month - July
• Roots and Branches Month - July
• Eye Injury Prevention Month - July
• National Recreation and Parks Month - July
• 4th of July - July 4
• National Make a Difference to Children Month - July
• Bioterrorism/Disaster Education and Awareness Month - July
• National Cell Phone Courtesy Month - July
• Family Reunion Month - July
• National Culinary Arts Month - July
• UV Safety Month - July
• National Grilling Month - July
• National Therapeutic Recreation Week - 2nd Week in July
• World Youth Day - July 23 - July 28, 2013
• Captive Nations Week - 3rd Week in July
• National Parks Month - August
• Children's Eye Health and Safety Month - August
• Neurosurgery Outreach Month - August
• National Women's Month - August
• National Immunization Awareness Month - August
• Psoriasis Awareness Month - August
• Be Kind to Humankind Week - Last Week in August
• Beach Month - August
• Happiness Happens Month - August
• National Inventors Month - August
• Cataract Awareness Month - August
• Spinal Muscular Atrophy Awareness Month - August
• Coast Guard Day - August 4
• International Youth Day - August 12
• National Aviation Week - August 15 - August 21, 2012
• Little League World Series - August 16 - August 26, 2012
• Thanks For All The Gifts Week - 3rd Week in August
• Women's Equality Day - August 26
• National Childhood Injury Prevention Week - September 1 - September 7
• Leukemia, Lymphoma And Myeloma Awareness Month - September
• Baby Safety Month - September
• Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Month - September
• National Cholesterol Education Month - September
• National Skin Care Awareness Month - September
• National Preparedness Month - September
• National Campus Safety Month - September
• National Food Safety Education Month - September
• National Emergency Preparedness Week - September 11 - September 17
• National Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery Month - September
• National Grandparents Day - September 9
• College Savings Month - September
• Craniofacial Acceptance Month - September
• Gynecologic Cancer Awareness Month - September
• Healthy Aging Month - September
• National Sickle Cell Month - September
• Ovarian Cancer Month - September
• Be Kind to Editors and Writers Month - September
• 5-A-Day Month - September
• Adult Day Services Week - 3rd Week in September
• Child Passenger Safety Week - Last Week in September
• National Infant Mortality Awareness Month - September
• Labor Day - 1st Monday in September
• Healthcare Environmental Services Week - 2nd Week in September
• International Housekeepers Week - 2nd Week in September
• Suicide Prevention Week - 1st Week in September
• Sukkot - September 30 - October 7, 2012
• World Alzheimers Day - September 21
• Yom Kippur - September 25 - September 26, 2012
• International Literacy Day - September 8
• Patriot Day - September 11
• Surgical Technologists Week - 3rd Week in September
• National Rehabilitation Awareness Week - 3rd Week in September
• Hispanic Heritage Month - September 15
• Rosh Hashanah - September 16 - September 18, 2012
• National Day of Prayer & Remembrance for Victims of Hurricane Katrina - September 16
• Constitution Week - September 17 - September 23
• Sneakers at Work Day - September 18
• National Farm Safety and Health Week - 3rd Week in September
• World Heart Day - Last Sunday in September
• Deaf Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• Adult Immunization Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• Prostate Cancer Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• National Reye's Syndrome Awareness Week - 3rd Week in September
• Banned Books Week - Last Week in September
• International Ataxia Awareness Day - September 25
• Class Reunion Month - October
• Women's Small Business Month - October
• Domestic Violence Awareness Month - October
• Positive Attitude Month - October
• Mental Illness Awareness Month - October
• Diversity Awareness Month - October
• National Liver Awareness Month - October
• National Mammography Day - 3rd Friday in October
• Auto Battery Safety Month - October
• National Health Care Food Service Week - 1st Week in October
• National Pharmacy Month - October
• National Physical Therapy Month - October
• National Breast Cancer Awareness Month - October
• Fire Prevention Week - 1st Week in October
• National Make a Difference Day - 4th Saturday in October
• National Chiropractic Month - October
• Healthcare Resource and Materials Management Week - 1st Week in October
• National Customer Service Week - 1st Week in October
• Photographer Appreciation Month - October
• Celiac Sprue Awareness Month - October
• Drive Safely to Work Week - 1st Week in October
• Financial Planning Week - 1st Week in October
• Health Literacy Month - October
• Healthy Lung Month - October
• Last Week To Register To Vote - October 1 - October 7
• Mental Illness Awareness Week - 1st Week in October
• National Animal Safety and Protection Month - October
• National Orthodontic Health Month - October
• National Down Syndrome Month - October
• National Fire Prevention Week - 1st Week in October
• National Book Month - October
• National Depression Screening Day - 1st Thursday in October
• National Health Education Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Crime Prevention Month - October
• Breast Health Awareness Month - October
• National Reading Group Month - October
• National Dental Hygiene Month - October
• Vegetarian Awareness Month - October
• National Newspaper Week - 1st Week in October
• National Window Safety Month - October
• Halloween - October 31
• Physicians Assistant Week - October 6 - October 12
• Teen Read Week - 3rd Week in October
• Head Start Awareness Month - October
• German American Heritage Month - October
• Red Ribbon Month - October
• Polish American Heritage Month - October
• Family Health Month - October
• Halloween Safety Month - October
• Gay and Lesbian History Month - October
• World Space Week - October 4 - October 10
• Emergency Nurses Week - October 7 - October 13, 2012
• International Infection Prevention Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Veterinary Technician Week - 2nd Week in October
• Healthcare Central Service and Sterile Processing Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Mole Day - October 23
• National School Lunch Week - 2nd Week in October
• Improve Your Home Office Week - 2nd Week in October
• World Blindness Awareness Month - October
• World Rainforest Week - 3rd Week in October
• Put The Brakes On Fatalities Day - October 10
• World Mental Health Day - October 10
• Character Counts Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Food Bank Week - October 14 - October 20, 2012
• Global Handwashing Day - October 15
• National Boss Day - October 16
• World Food Day - October 16
• National Respiratory Care Week - Last Week in October
• Kids Care Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Massage Therapy Week - 4th Week in October
• Medical Assistants Week - 3rd Week in October
• Red Ribbon Week - Last Week in October
• National Healthcare Facilities & Engineering Week - Last Week in October
• America's Safe Schools Week - 3rd Week in October
• Freedom Of Speech Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Businesswomen's Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Chemistry Week - 3rd Week in October
• International Credit Union Week - 3rd Week in October
• National School Bus Safety Week - 3rd Week in October
• YWCA Week Without Violence - 3rd Week in October
• United Nations Day - October 24
• Statue of Liberty Dedication Day - October 28
• American Diabetes Month - November
• National Inspirational Role Models Month - November
• COPD Awareness Month - November
• Family Stories Month - November
• Educational Support Personnel Day
• Dear Santa Letter Week - 1st Week in November
• Diwali - November 13
• International Creative Child and Adult Month - November
• National Adoption Month - November
• Long Term Care Awareness Month - November
• Lung Cancer Awareness Month - November
• National Animal Shelter Appreciation Week - 1st Week in November
• National Family Week - 1st Week in November
• National Novel Writing Month - November
• National Scholarship Month - November
• Military Family Appreciation Month - November
• National Hospice Month - November
• Dia de Los Muertos - November 2
• Aviation History Month - November
• American Education Week - 2nd Week in November
• America Recycles Day - November 15
• National Care Week - 1st Week in November
• National Alzheimer's Disease Month - November
• National American Indian Heritage Month - November
• National Family Caregivers Month - November
• National Geography Awareness Week - 3rd Week in November
• National Young Reader's Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Marrow Awareness Month - November
• Home Care Aide Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month - November
• Radiologic Technology Week - 1st Week in November
• Native American Heritage Month - November
• United States Marine Corps Day - November 20
• Vegan Month - November
• World Hello Day - November 21
• World Kindness Week - 2nd Monday in November
• Youth Appreciation Week - 2nd Week in November
• Veterans Day - November 11
• National Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Family Volunteer Day - 2nd Saturday in November
• Thanksgiving - 4th Thursday in November
• Great American Smokeout - 3rd Thursday in November
• Humane Society Anniversary Day - November 22
• International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women - November 25
• National Aplastic Anemia Awareness Week - December 1 - December 7
• Learn A Foreign Language Month - December
• National Drugged and Drunk Driving Prevention Month - December
• Identity Theft Prevention and Awareness Month - December
• National Hand Washing Awareness Month - December
• Universal Human Rights Month - December
• Tolerance Week - December 1 - December 7
• Cancer-Related Fatigue Awareness Month - December
• The Christmas Seal Campaign - December
• International Calendar Awareness Month - December
• International Sharps Injury Prevention and Awareness Month - December
• AIDS Awareness Month - December
• Read a New Book Month - December
• World AIDS Day - December 1
• Write to a Friend Month - December
• Hand Washing Awareness Week - 1st Week in December
• Art and Architecture Month - December
• National Drunk and Drugged Driving Prevention Month - December
• National Made in America Month - December
• National Sign-Up for Camp Month - December
• National Write a Business Plan Month - December
• Operation Santa Paws - December
• Safe Toys and Gifts Month - December
• Seasonal Depression Awareness Month - December
• Chanukah - December 8 - December 15, 2012
• Human Rights Week - December 10 - December 17
• Las Posadas - December 16 - December 24
• Christmas - December 25
• Kwanzaa - December 26 - January 1
• World Peace Meditation Day - December 31
• New Year's Eve - December 31
• national depression screeaning day
• National Night Out - 1st Tuesday in August
• National COPD Awareness Month
• National Novel Writing Month
• national-hunger-and-homelessness-awareness-week
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:07am PT
Just for the record, I'm fine with Veteran's day, although I think that when the president and the media speak of soldiers as the best our society has to offer, it's basically lip service so people will continue to sign up and die for weak reasons.

There's nothing inherently honorable about being a soldier. Throughout history, it has been soldiers (probably following orders) who have committed the the greatest atrocities. The Nazi death camps, millions killed under Pol Pot and in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, 2-3 million South-East Asians killed by the United States in the Vietnam war era, and the rape of Nanjing by the Japanese. All done by Soldiers.

And soldiers just follow orders. There's hardly any evidence of mass refusal and desertion by soldiers in any of the above horrors. So a soldier is only as good as the cause and government who is telling them what to do. Let's fight for the cause of using force only when really needed, not for oil or Israel

peace

Karl
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:11am PT
Karl.....Really!? On this thread...Really?! Wow!!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:23am PT
This is the best time of the day the dawn The final cleansing breath unsullied yet By acrid fume or death's cacophony The rank refuse of unchained ambition
And pray, deny me not but know me now Your faithful retainer stands resolute To serve his liege Lord without recompense Perchance to fall and perish namelessly
No flag draped bier or muffled drum to set The cadence for a final dress parade But it was not always thus remember Once you worshipped me and named me a God In many tongues and made offering lest I exact too terrible a tribute
Take heed for I am weary, ancient And decrepit now and my time grows short There are no honorable frays to join Only mean death dealt out in dibs and dabs Or horror unleashed from across oceans
Assail me not with noble policy For I care not at all for platitude And surrender such tedious detail To greater minds than mine and nimbler tongues Singular in their purpose and resolve And presuming to speak for everyman
Oh, for another time, a distant field And there a mortal warrior's lonely grave But duty charges me remain until The end the last battle of the last war
Until that tomorrow render unto me That which is mine my stipend well deserved The fairest flower of your progeny Your sons, your daughters your hopes and your dreams The cruel consequence of your conceit



Warrior, by Steve Earle



Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:31am PT
Ummm..OK,yeah I even agree with what Karl says(wholeheartedly).My whole time in the military I was constantly told "what are you doin' here?You're definitely not the military type".But the thread title is "Thank You Veterans!".Bashing Veterans Day was not really the reasoning for this thread,nor was arguing.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:41am PT
Back on track

Michelle
US Army
Ft Jackson, SC BCT
Ft Sam Houston, TX AIT
Medic
Stationed at Ft Bliss, El Paso, other short term conus locations
I loved my job and didn't want to get out. Long story I'm not interested in sharing here today.


toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:58am PT
• Polish American Heritage Month - October
• Family Health Month - October
• Halloween Safety Month - October
• Gay and Lesbian History Month - October
• World Space Week - October 4 - October 10
• Emergency Nurses Week - October 7 - October 13, 2012
• International Infection Prevention Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Veterinary Technician Week - 2nd Week in October
• Healthcare Central Service and Sterile Processing Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Mole Day - October 23
• National School Lunch Week - 2nd Week in October
• Improve Your Home Office Week - 2nd Week in October
• World Blindness Awareness Month - October
• World Rainforest Week - 3rd Week in October
• Put The Brakes On Fatalities Day - October 10
• World Mental Health Day - October 10
• Character Counts Week - 3rd Week in October


haha! I liked "National Mole Day" the best!

it's probably a good thing cuz I wouldn't give these blind, subterranean rodents a second thought, otherwise

-
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
A couple days late, but, I just wanted to post this in memory of my brother in law, who lived hard and died young at 29. He earned a silver star and bronze star and three purple hearts while serving two tours of duty in the USMC in Viet Nam, Sgt. Ronnie Grindle, RIP!

edit: btw, Ronnie (like i shared elsewhere) just before his 17th birthday, tagged along with his older brother and his friends on a joyride and him being in the backseat got nabbed when they got pulled over. The judge gave him a choice of prison or Nam, so he took the latter. Things were definitely very different in the 60's! What a piece of sh#t that judge was, imo! I'm sure he gave many other young men (kids really) the very same choice, fully knowing that a percentage of them would return in a box.

fwiw, i came very close to being drafted and sent to Nam, was ready to go (wouldn't have had a choice) but was fortunate enough to draw a high lottery # 308! I had several good friends that i new since elementary school, were on my little league team, that were not so fortunate, they came back in a coffin. Ronald Dilday, RIP & Randy Eads, RIP!

i just wanted to add that Randy Eads was a "tunnel rat', that is how he died (went into a tunnel and never came out)! I will never forget the night that i heard that news. i was shaping surfboards in a friends garage, and this guy came by and told us that his mother had just got the devastating news that very day...so sad!

IMO, Ronnie, Ronald & Randy were #1 BadAzz's of the world...the epitomy of the word, the REAL deal! Heroes!! Why? Because, when it got right down to it, they were willing to put it all on the line, and die for their brothers!!

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
Funny how many hate cops until the day comes when a "Bad Guy" is breaking down your door, has a 12 gauge sawed off S&W pointed at your face and is ready to tear up and blow your family apart from limb to limb.

Then, oh my, the cops are saints.



Ungratefulness for all that have given in Service of the defense of their nation, regardless where in the world, will indeed be the premise for the fall of this nation. As it has been time and time again in the past 1500 years.

Amazes me how Western Society just doesn't learn it's many lesson from the past.

Even the Dalai Lama himself gives daily recognition for those braves souls that gave their lives protecting him prior to his departure from Tibet.

Oh well.....
John M

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
I don't see anyone here hating on Veterans. Just on how they have been misused, and how corrupt and evil wars have been glorified.

Don't hate the Veteran
Hate the lies and waste brought on by the corrupt.

Maybe Karl's post was misplaced, but I appreciate what he said.

You can protect our servicemen by giving them the best equipment possible.
You can also protect and honor them by making certain their service isn't for corrupt and evil purposes.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
You can also protect them by just simply saying "Thank You!" and leaving it at that.


Trust me, them two words mean more than anyone that has never served, will ever know.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
There is definitely the "brothers in arms" that only some understand.It cannot be explained,only felt.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
Name:Erik O.
Branch of Service: USMC
Years of Service: 4 years in reserve that started during the first Iraq war
Where you Basic trained: San Diego
Where you were stationed: 4th MTM Co., Sacramento, CA
If in a war where? No, thankfully.......
coz

Mountain climber
Northern surly
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
Thanks Karl for ruining a good thread with ur BS.

Just trying to honor the vets, u may think ur smart but ur acting like a jack ass.

Go away.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
Democracy cannot survive a professional army, never has, never will.
DMT, not sure what you meant here? As opposed to what, an unprofessional army?

Democracy just doesn't have that much experience with armies period, professional or otherwise......


Coz, blind observance of anything is worthless. Yes, you've worked with military folk, but there are plenty of vets on this site that understand what Karl is saying, so stand down brother.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
There is definitely the "brothers in arms" that only some understand.It cannot be explained, only felt.

YUP!

And missed so dearly, daily.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
Karl,

I agree with most of what you said. In my opinion WW2 was pretty much the last "honorable" war we fought in.
Having a few purple hearts, and hopefully more wisdom with age, I think my perspective has sharpened.

I was going to be drafted or escape to Canada. At that time, I thought it might be some sort of "grand adventure", and didn't even think of the alternative.

It was a learning experience.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:15pm PT
LIke all off-topic threads, they only survive with a little controversy. I admit that I really didn't want to post my message on this thread, but I'm also sensitive about creating multiple off-topic but similar threads on Supertopo, so maybe I made the wrong call. Sorry if that's the case. But if I did create a new one, this one was already long gone, so at least now we have a discussion.

I am actually a lot more FOR the welfare of the soldiers than many who pay them lip service. If you get sent to a bunk useless war like Iraq, and exposed to depleted uranium and perhaps having some parts blown off, how much support are you really getting from folks who say "It's unpatriotic to question the war, support our troops!"

If that was the way we all acted, the troops would still be there suffering for nothing. A patriot who supports the troops will yell "It's a phony illegal war and nobody should have be the last man to die for a mistake."

If we had a thread to thank the Free-soloists for risking their life for the advancement of our sport, you can bet people would chime in and say "Wait a minute. Isn't glorifying them putting others at risk when there's another side to the story"

If there are some veterans out there who joined for purely altruistic reasons of service, post up and I thank you in advance. For others who bought into the program and found it wasn't what they signed up for, I stand with you and don't blame you. I'm just putting the brakes on the blind hero worship that winds up being counter-productive the minute we're fighting a new senseless war

Peace

karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
Regarding the issue of a professional army. It may be a inescapable reality now, but the consequences of this have been best outlined by a high level pinko leftie

The Republican Top General and former president, Dwight D Eisenhower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

He called it and that's why Romney wanted to increase military spending by 2 trillion even though it doubled since 2001. Not for treating the soldiers better, but just supporting the whole industry of defense.

It's a short clip. Listen and consider

Peace

karl
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