Thank You Veterans!

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 129 of total 129 in this topic
MissJ

Social climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 11, 2012 - 11:15am PT
Okay.. here's the way to do this
Name:
Branch of Service:
Years of Service:
Where you Basic trained:
Where you were stationed:
If in a war where?

We must never forget the sacrifices made by those who served.

Thank you Soldiers!
eKat

Trad climber
BackInTheDitch BackInTheDirt BackInTheDay
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:19am PT
OK. . . right holiday. . .

I didn't serve, but my dad was a USAF pilot in WWII and Korea.

Not a day goes by that I don't think of him and celebrate his greatness!

TFPU!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:22am PT
You go first. Where'd you serve?

Thank you vets. I've been thinking of my Grandpa, who died earlier this year, a lot today. Purple Heart, Silver Star, 10'th Mtn division in Italy. Dropped out of Yale to enlist.

I went to his grave to say hi a couple of hours ago.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:22am PT
hey there say, MissJ...

yes, a thank you, and:
some prayer as well...

folks forget what they went through and how so many live on, with the loss of many buddies, in their hearts... :(


thanks for sharing... i know a few folks who
still how sons out there...

someday, they will be vetrans, if they make it through...
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Kirk Sager
Army (Infantry)
8 years
Ft Benning,Ga.
Stationed @ Ft Carson,Co.- 4th ID,E-1/8

MissJ

Social climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2012 - 11:32am PT
I did not serve but I was raised near Fort Bragg and know a lot of soldiers who did. So when I worked at an aerospcae firm I became a member of the EOAC and when I found out they had never done anything to officially recognize the veterans within our workforce I created a booklet to recognize and honor our men and women who served. It didn't matter if they were in battle or not
only that they served to protect our country.

The book was well received and they incoporated it as a yearly event for veterans day.

ec

climber
ca
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:43am PT
'Just had my Dad's memorial service yesterday. He passed last Sunday. Here's what I put in his obit:

"Edwin (Joe, aka Jeong S. Wing) enlisted in the United States Army Air Corps and served as a tail gunner on an A-20 attack bomber, based in England. Uniquely, Edwin was the only Chinese-American in the 416th Bomb Group and flew on 55 missions. On September 29, 1944, Edwin and his two other crew members volunteered for a mission over Bitburg, Germany, where their plane was shot down by anti-aircraft fire. Edwin parachuted to safety and was the sole survivor. Edwin eluded capture by German troops for seven days; after which he spent over a year in captivity until the end of WWII. Edwin was awarded two Purple Hearts as he had sustained frost bitten feet and shrapnel wounds from his heroic service. "

Truely, this had been my Dad's 'greatest adventure.'

 ec
Borut

climber
french
Nov 11, 2012 - 11:50am PT
Name: Kantuser
Branch of Service: Service Santι
Years of Service: 1975-1976
Where you Basic trained: Nantes
Where you were stationed: Berlin
If in a war where: Berlin (cold war)
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 11, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
Sierra Ledge Rat <br/>
Call sign "Bad Dog"
Sierra Ledge Rat
Call sign "Bad Dog"
Credit: Sierra Ledge Rat

Branch of Service: US Navy
Years of Service: 9 yrs active duty in combat arms
Where you Basic trained: Pensacola, Florida
Where you were stationed: San Juan Islands, Washington
If in a war where?
Cold war, stationed around the world on aircraft carriers
Gulf War, stationed underground at Cheyenne Mountain in the missle warning center

Home, Sweet, Home
Credit: Sierra Ledge Rat

NAVY
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Nov 11, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
USAF Aux, 1974-1980

SAR Unit 27048

Air & Ground SAR, Radiological monitoring G/A, Comm tech.

Civil Defense Liason 1976. ( CD ID with indefinite expiration)

Basic: Nellis
Bases worked, Wright Patterson, Nellis, McClellan.



SALUTE TO YOU VETS!!!!!!!!!!!!



edit: My Brothers,, Alan R Anderson USAF 30 yrs, Ist SGT,Served Nam-cambodian border Germany, Japan, Iceland. Now has some agent orange issues. Kenneth R Anderson, USAF Air Medic Nam. 1 hitch ,, Micheal R Anderson, Mstr Sgt USAF 30 yrs. Nam, Germany, Supply, then missle silo management. My Sister (rip) USAF Res, USAF Aux, and volunteer EMT for the hawthorne ambulance.
climbingcoastie

Ice climber
Sacramento, CA
Nov 11, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
Pat
Coast Guard
1995-current (three years to go!)
Basic: Cape May, NJ
Charlevoix, MI; Kodiak, AK; Sacramento, CA
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 11, 2012 - 02:29pm PT


Fletcher

Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
Remembering our family's beloved Cousin Bob, who served in WWII on the Vestal (docked next to the Arizona in Pearl Harbor) and later was the commander of a destroyer (whose name escapes me at the time). He was an amazing human being and just passed about a couple of years ago at 93. His ashes are appropriately in the Pacific, just off Manhattan Beach now. Many said that whoever you were, when you engaged with him, he made you feel like the only person in the room. Something I aspire to.

Also much gratitude for my brother in law, also named Bob (lot of Navy guys in our family.. my wife's grandfather also served in WWI and WWII as a judge... he is yet another Robert). He flew sorties from the Ranger in the first Gulf War. He is a sweet guy and is a wonderful uncle with my kids (the classic kind who has a lot of fun with them, gets them all riled up, and is generally silly; they love him). He doesn't really seem to like to talk about his time there. I wonder what is going on inside of him sometimes and pray that all is well.

Very grateful to all veterans.

Peace,
Eric
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 11, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
Birchell
4 years USAF Survival Instructor
4 years RSAF Survival Instructor
Fairchild, AFB.
KAAB, KSA

Just came from a veterans parade in Auburn. Saw some great stuff.
One Vietnam vet with 3 purple hearts and 3 bronze stars....WHOA!!!
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
Nov 11, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
Guillory
US Army
Two
Ft. Polk
Ft. Riley
Enlisted during Viet Nam but the Paris Peace Accord was signed while I was in Basic and the worst I had to do was go to Kansas.

55D20 - EOD Specialist
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Nov 11, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
Salvador
SGT, USA
74-78
98G
If I told you, I'd have to kill you.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Nov 11, 2012 - 05:43pm PT
Name: GS
Branch of Service: US ARMY, 11Bravo, Sp4, Expert Dragon Gunner
Years of Service: 82-84, "The Raygun Years"
Where you Basic trained: Fort Benning, GA, (I was at A-4-2, aka "The Hell Hole" near Ranger Country)

Where you were stationed: Ft. Myer,VA, 3rd US Infantry, Co. E Honor Guard. Watch the Hollywood movie "Gardens of Stone" and that's what I did. Helped bury many Vietnam vets in Arlington after the war on casket carrying duty. Very sad and a very moving experience. Forever taught me the tragedy of war.

If in a war where? I'm a peacetime vet. Although we did kick butt on an the island nation Grenada and we did a huge ceremony for those combat vets. Also I escorted family at the Andrews AF Base in Wash. DC, after the Beirut Marine bombing. Personally saw everyone in my Chain of Command from the President on down. That was very cool. I should of had the forethought to tell VP Bush and family not to drive our nation off the cliff. Hindsight is 20/20. Sorry. Mybad.


John M

climber
Nov 11, 2012 - 05:59pm PT
Thinking about you George. Hope you are okay.. Wherever you are.

Thank you for your service!
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 11, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
Major Steve Blake MBE (Retd)

25 Yrs - Int Corps retired 2004

Trained: Ashford Kent, JSPI RAF Wyton, Navy Yard Washington DC, Fort Lewis, and a lot of other places.........

First Gulf War, Sierra Leone, Kosovo, YADDA YADDA, and a lot of other small places and little wars

Sat out the second GW at Fort Huachuca.

Peace,

Steve
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Nov 11, 2012 - 06:10pm PT
Pat Nay
U.S. Army, Sgt E5
1972-76
Fort Ord, California
Kornwestheim (outside Stuttgart) and Garmisch-Partenkirchen Germany
Vietnam ERA vet, I never saw combat or served in a combat zone.
BBA

climber
OF
Nov 11, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
Branch of Service: Army
Years of Service: 6
Where you Basic trained: Ft Ord, AIT Ft Holabird (neither of which exist today - Ft Ord is a Campus and holabird is a Mall)
Where you were stationed: Ft Holabird, Taipei, Ft Bragg, Bien Hoa, Ft Shafter
If in a war where? the Nam

I'm ambivalent about my service.

Evel

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Nov 11, 2012 - 06:51pm PT
Mix
Sgt. USMC
7 yrs
University of Parris Island,SC
2nd Force Reconnaissance Co.,2/6 STA
Stone Bay,NC Quantico,VA
Beirut,Lebanon Columbia,SA
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 11, 2012 - 08:42pm PT
Thanks!

To both of you.

Credit: TGT
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Nov 11, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
‎"They went with songs to the battle, they were young.
Straight of limb, true of eyes, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them."

"Lest we forget"

For the Fallen
Lawrence Binyon 1914

So giving.....


Susan
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Nov 11, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
To My Uncle Red, US NAVY WW11, inteligence Div
My Uncle Bill, US NAVY,WW11, Elec, Enterprise and other ships, Purple heart among other awards. And my uncle Gene, also US NAVY, WW11 aboard battle ships. SALUTE Sirs...See you all some day.
dogtown

Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
Nov 11, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
death from above,My ship.
death from above,My ship.
Credit: dogtown

U.S. Army, 1st of the 9th air mobile Crew chef
1970-73
Fort Ord, California

Vietnam, Central highlands
Guangzhou

Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
Nov 11, 2012 - 09:55pm PT
Not sure this is good OPSEC, but here goes. Wink Wink

Okay.. here's the way to do this
Name:
Emmanuel Lacoste
Branch of Service:
U.S. Army, Infantry.
Years of Service:
5 years
Where you Basic trained:
Georgia, Benning
Where you were stationed:
Germany, 1-4 Infantry.
KY/TN 101 Airbone.

If in a war where?Bold Text

No real wars, spent a long time wearing a blue hat in Haiti. Main mission was protecting the new president.

We must never forget the sacrifices made by those who served.Bold Text

I agree, but just as important, many were sacrifice who didn't officially serve. Some were just at the wrong place when problems started, others took it on themselves to do their part to end the war. (French Resistance comes to mind.)

Thank you Soldiers!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:22am PT
I'm all for appreciating what veterans go through, and support them getting the best treatment from our system when they return from war. Still...

Maybe it’s time to get more real about the military and veteran’s day. We’ve been trained by our culture to idolize soldiers. Somehow we’re supposed to tell ourselves that they are our greatest citizens. We’re never supposed to call for cuts in military spending, even as we shut off funds to the poor and helpless within our borders.

Of course when a government wants to recruit people to risk death and dismemberment in foreign lands that propose little or no threat to country, they have to pay them lip service. These soldiers are also used as a political shield so the questionable reasons for war are not questioned. Somehow we weren’t supporting our troops if we called for them to return from a lame and useless war in Iraq. The troops, of course, aren’t allowed to call for their own return. We have to do it!

Very few people join the military for self-less sacrificing service to our country, and our country is in zero danger of invasion by other lands. Once someone joins the military they may have an opportunity for heroic action for the sake of others, or also for the most depraved insults to human life and dignity. Many of the worst crimes against humanity in history have been committed by soldiers, sometimes at the request of superiors and politicians, but sometimes by the fog of war which corrupts the better angels of individuals.

So my heart goes out to those people who gone in the military and suffered death, injury or trauma thinking it was for a good cause, whether it was or not. I salute those soldiers who have done heroic deeds that saved comrades, or even better, innocent civilians.

But don’t ask me for blind adoration of the military, it’s actions, or use soldiers as a cover to gain support for the military. I don’t buy it. We need a worldwide transformation to make militaries irrelevant, smaller, and eventually unneeded. Our weapons get more and more powerful and we risk killing ALL of each other or being suppressed by robot drones from all knowing governments.

My heroes fight for peace.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Nov 13, 2012 - 08:14am PT
Steve Arsenault
Army-Sgt.
1967-70
Vietnam -23 months-Central Highlands
2 purple hearts
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:14am PT
Good post Karl, but possibly not the best place for it.

Although, freedom of speech and all...

You probably bought the thread some added life.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:46am PT
I am always amazed when this day comes once a year and everyone knows some one that is a Vet and in fact shows their appreciation for them.

The rest of the year, just like Christmas etc, all is forgotten.

Me, it was my chosen profession that I enjoyed thoroughly for 24 years, 3 months a 9 days which I gave my heart and soul to daily.

For those very few out there including here on ST that do think & show their respect and appreciation about us Vets on a regular basis, thank you.



Rick Poedtke
ABHC(CNAC/NPJ) USN(RET)
1975-1999

CV-66 (V-1 DIV FLY ONE)
VXE-6(ANTARCTIC HELO SAR/PARA-RESCUE)/NAS Lemoore & Fallon HELO SAR
BUD/S(CLASS 132 25 WKS 2 DAYS)
CV-43 (V-1 DIV FLY ONE PO)
CVN-65 (V-1 DIV FLT DK/C&S LCPO)
HCS-5 (CNAC OP RESTORE HOPE/DEVGRU)/NAS DIEGO GARCIA C&S OPS
SERE Brunswick, ME
HCS-5(CNAC Support of DEVGRU & various ST Op's)
LHA1/CVN-65 (AIR LCPO) & AIRPAC A/C HDLING TM

Somewhere in eastern Somalia, OP RESTORE HOPE in Support of DEVGRU DET Oct 1993
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 13, 2012 - 10:53am PT
I salute all those who serve in uniform with honor and integrity.

This weekend I went to NYC despite the iffy nature of a recovering disaster area to attend the memorial service of my friend Luce who, among many other fine efforts in life, served during WWII as an airplane mechanic with the Army Air Corps on Guam.

On the flight back yesterday I sat amidst a sea of DMAT personnel returning home after 2 weeks service to Sandy victims.

Although I get a little nervous about Homeland Security having a uniformed army these guys are in the business of saving lives and were to a man (and woman) obviously committed medical people. So lets not forget the service people (like the Coast Guard as well) who are less combat oriented.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:35am PT
2 yrs of service in the Army
One of the 1st in the Volunteer Army

Basic training - Fort Polk Louisiana

AIT - Ft. Rucker Alabama - Air Traffic Control

Viet Nam ERA veteran that spent my whole tour doing enroute control on a mountaintop in Southern South Korea (microwave relay station called Brooklyn Site) If any of you chopper pilots out there were stationed in Korea from 74 to 76, my callsign was Mike Sierra

Credit: ydpl8s
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:07pm PT
Gunners Mate First Class
Boot Camp San Diego
Gun School North Chicago
USS Lawrence-Destroyer-East Coast-Europe
USS Hull-Destroyer-Naval Gunfire Support-DMZ Vietnam
USS Benewah-River Assault Group One-Vietnam Delta
5 Years, 7 Months, 19 Days
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
We’ve been trained by our culture to idolize soldiers. Somehow we’re supposed to tell ourselves that they are our greatest citizens.

Right on Karl. Anyone joining the US military in recent times knows EXACTLY what they're signing up to do. And I'm totally against it. Dont want to hear any nonsense about PTSD and how war wasn't as glorious as you'd hoped.

On the other hand, I can forgive people who joined out of patriotism, and claim to have been duped. But those who say they joined because they had no other option because the economy is bad - well, I wouldn't kill people for money, and none of them are as poor as their victims in Iraq and Afghanistan.
MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
One of my little sisters in Iraq:

Credit: MikeL
Credit: MikeL

I appreciate Karl's sentiments. Pain and suffering might seem stupid, but there's hardly any getting around it here in this plane of existence. Many things can be criticized; war and the services as extensions of the politic are among the many.

Veterans Day is also for veterans (as well as for civilians who think it's their duty to back the men and women who are sent into harm's way to do their bidding).

There is little that can be compared to the feelings of community, honor, and duty in a band of brothers and sisters in combat. War and the sense of death all around you brings a clarity about living that might only be approached in climbing, police and fire work, and maybe in critical health care. While you're in those situations, you can hate it, sure, but the experiences can leave a lasting mark on a person that frames the rest of his or her life. Many things are like that, and they are neither good nor bad.

By the way: there really are people who join up because they want to get involved for what they think are larger purposes than material needs. My sister did. Me . . . I wanted to see what I was made of.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Nov 13, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
I think the military was the perfect thing to get me to grow up. First they kicked my butt, then they gave me responsibility, that's just what a young man (or woman) needs. I'm not saying everybody has to get it that way, but it was the right thing at the right time for me.

Hmmm, I need to give my 22yr old son a call (although he's already more motivated than I was).
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
Coz wrote

Thanks for the typical sanctimonious crap Karl.

This thread is to honor vets. Who do fight for peace and freedoms, the very ones u enjoy.

Shameful!

Thanks to my parents who served.
All the team guys I've train the last 25 years and to all those currently in uniform u are hero's and a grateful nation thanks you.

You can thank me for bumping this thread, which I had to pull up from page three. I agree about our parent's service. WW2 was about the last war that had anything to do with protecting America's freedom, although Korea could be perhaps justified as protecting the Korean's freedom.

after that, the veterans have my compassion as victims of our government, not because they are truly fighting for freedom, because they aren't.

And I'd like to see any evidence to the contrary. So why continue this myth that soldiers are these heroes sacrificing themselves so we can be free? It's now a lie and making this our societies narrative only allows the politicians to have cover for stupid wars while getting poor kids to volunteer for something that can rip their lives apart while doing us no good.

It has to stop. Even Afghanistan was a total sham and waste of time. The hijackers were Saudi and the money came from there too. As soon as we leave, the place is going right back to hell and isn't good now.

So stop it. I'm sorry for the state of veterans in this country and do not seek to blame them. They are victims of our corrupt government and military industrial complex. But the guys I know who joined the service did so because they wanted to kick ass, not to save the world, and the guys who joined the service that others tell me about, joined because of the socialistic style benefits that the service provides... subsidized housing, food, health care, and college.

So why do we need a special category of honoring these people? So they will continue to volunteer for the military, getting killed for the interests of big business? I'm done with that and call foul. I'd rather honor Daniel Ellsberg for risking his freedom to get the troops home from vietnam when the government was telling boldface lies about our 'progress' there. Or Bradly Manning, who risked his freedom to out the BS of our current military. These guys actually DID fight for our freedom but found themselves in jail.

I conclude with the words of a super war hero, two time medal of honor winner, General Smedly Butler

“War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
So why do we need a special category of honoring these people?

Bloody hell, Karl's right. Let's get rid of all the celebrations this country devotes itself to.

• National Poverty in America Awareness Month - January
• Family Fit Lifestyle Month - January
• New York City Restaurant Week - January 16 - February 10, 2012
• Cervical Cancer Awareness Month - January
• National Personal Trainer Awareness Day - January 2
• National Book Blitz Month - January
• National Personal Self-Defense Awareness Month - January
• National Blood Donor Month - January
• International Quality of Life Month - January
• International Creativity Month - January
• National Birth Defects Prevention Month - January
• Financial Wellness Month - January
• Customer Service Day - January 17
• National Trivia Day - January 4
• National Glaucoma Awareness Month - January
• National Mentoring Month - January
• National Personal Trainer Awareness Week - 1st Week in January
• National Radon Action Month - January
• National Thank Your Customers Week - 1st Week in January
• New Year's Day - January 1
• Thyroid Awareness Month - January
• Women's Self-Empowerment Week - 1st Week in January
• Hunt for Happiness Week - 3rd Week in January
• Martin Luther King, Jr. Day - 3rd Monday in January
• Get to Know Your Customer Day - January 20
• A National Day of Renewal and Reconciliation - January 20
• National Handwriting Day - January 23
• Thank Your Mentor Day - January 26
• Youth Leadership Month - February
• Marfan Syndrome Awareness Month - February
• Black History Month - February
• National Patient Recognition Week - February 1 - February 7
• Library Lovers Month - February
• Burn Awareness Month - February
• Groundhog Day - February 2
• American Heart Month - February
• President's Day - 3rd Monday in February
• Plant The Seeds Of Greatness Month - February
• Aggressive Driving Month - February
• National Weddings Month - February
• Chinese New Year - February 10
• National Parent Leadership Month - February
• National Time Management Month - February
• Valentine's Day - February 14
• Women's Heart Health Week - 1st Week in February
• World Marriage Day - 2nd Sunday in February
• National Athletic Training Month - March
• National Umbrella Month - March
• American Red Cross Month - March
• March for Babies - March 1 - April 31
• National Ethics Awareness Month - March
• National Nutrition Month - March
• St. Patrick's Day - March 17
• National Social Work Month - March
• Irish-American Heritage Month - March
• Return the Borrowed Books Week - 1st Week in March
• National Eye Donor Month - March
• National Optimism Month - March
• Youth Violence Prevention Week - Last Week in March
• Colorectal Cancer Education and Awareness Month - March
• Workplace Eye Safety Month - March
• Purim - March 7 - March 8, 2012
• National Craft Month - March
• National Sleep Awareness Week - March 7 - March 13
• National Women's History Month - March
• Poison Prevention Awareness Month - March
• Save Your Vision Month - March
• Steroid Abuse Prevention Month - March
• World TB Day - March 24
• International Women's Day - March 8
• Girl Scout Week - March 11 - March 17, 2012
• National Children's Craft Day - March 14
• Inhalants and Poisons Awareness Week - 3rd Week in March
• Procrastination Awareness Month - April
• National Child Abuse Prevention Month - April
• Cancer Control Month - April
• Patient Safety Awareness Month - April
• Easter - 1st Sunday in April
• Facial Protection Month - April
• Get Yourself Tested Month - April
• Jazz Appreciation Month - April
• National Autism Awareness Month - April
• National Oral Health Month - April
• National Public Health Week - 1st Week in April
• Prematurity Awareness Month - April
• Sports Eye Safety Month - April
• National Stress Awareness Month - April
• National Occupational Therapy Month - April
• Alcohol Awareness Month - April
• Youth Sports Safety Month - April
• World Hemophilia Day - April 17
• Women's Eye Health and Safety Month - April
• Administrative Professionals Week - Last Week in April
• Sexual Assault Awareness Month - April
• April Fools' Day - April 1
• National DARE Day - 1st Thursday in April
• Earth Day - April 22
• National Car Care Month - April
• Administrative Professionals Day - Last Wednesday in April
• National Playground Safety Week - Last Week in April
• National Motorcycle Safety Month - May
• Bicycle Safety Month - May
• National Arthritis Month - May
• Better Hearing and Speech Month - May
• Loyalty Day - May 1
• ALS Awareness Month - May
• National Electric Safety Month - May
• Substitute Teacher Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• School Principal's Day - May 1
• National Women's Health Week - 1st Week in May
• National Cancer Research Month - May
• Asian Pacific American Heritage Month - May
• Child Nutrition Employee Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• National Teen Self-Esteem Month - May
• National Pet Week - 1st Week in May
• Be Kind to Animals Week - 1st Week in May
• Brain Tumor Action Week - 1st Week in May
• Haitian Heritage Month - May
• Heal the Children Month - May
• Healthy Vision Month - May
• Huntington's Disease Awareness Month - May
• Meditation Month - May
• National Mental Health Month - May
• Melanoma & Skin Cancer Prevention Month - May
• National Bike Month - May
• National Charter Schools Week - 1st Week in May
• Children's Book Week - 1st Week in May
• National Foster Care Month - May
• National Hepatitis Awareness Month - May
• National Neurofibromatosis Awareness Month - May
• Get Caught Reading Month - May
• Tay-Sachs and Canavan Diseases Awareness Month - May
• Family Wellness Month - May
• National Stuttering Awareness Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Stroke Awareness Month - May
• National Tourism Week - 1st Week in May
• Fibromyalgia Education and Awareness Month - May
• National Lupus Awareness Month - May
• International Multiple Sclerosis Month - May
• North American Occupational Safety and Health Week - 1st Week in May
• Goodwill Industries Week - 1st Week in May
• Public Service Recognition Week - 1st Week in May
• National Safe Kids Week - 1st Week in May
• Teachers Appreciation Week - 1st Week in May
• High Blood Pressure Education Month - May
• Clean Air Month - May
• Reading Is Fun Week - 2nd Week in May
• Teachers Appreciaton Day - May 3
• Older Americans Month - May
• National Physical Fitness and Sports Month - May
• National Osteoporosis Prevention Month - May
• Cinco de Mayo - May 5
• Join Hands Day - 1st Saturday in May
• National Nurses Week - May 6 - May 12
• Nurses Day - May 6
• Child Care Provider Day - May 7
• National Hospital And Healthcare Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Employee Health & Fitness Day - 3rd Wednesday in May
• Food Allergy Awareness Week - 2nd Week in May
• Memorial Day - Last Monday in May
• National School Nurse Day - May 8
• National Oral, Head, and Neck Cancer Awareness Week - May 8 - May 14
• Salvation Army Week - May 8 - May 15
• World Red Cross Day - May 8
• National Student Nurses Day - May 8
• International Nurses Day - May 12
• National Police Week - May 13 - May 19, 2012
• National Running and Fitness Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Nursing Home Week - 2nd Week in May
• National Transportation Week - 1st Week in May
• Mother's Day - 2nd Sunday in May
• National EMS Week - 3rd Week in May
• National Safe Boating Week - May 21 - May 27
• National Emergency Medical Services Week - 3rd Week in May
• Click It or Ticket Mobilization Week - Last Week in May
• National Senior Health and Fitness Day - May 26
• World No Tobacco Day - May 31
• Fireworks Safety Month - June
• Dairy Month - June
• National Family Month - June
• Sports America Kids Month - June
• Sun Safety Week - June 1 - June 7
• Great Outdoors Month - June
• Children's Awareness Month - June
• National Tire Safety Month - June
• Vision Research Month - June
• International Men's Month - June
• Cancer From The Sun Month - June
• Appreciate Your Plumbing, Heating, and Cooling Professionals Week - 4th Week in June
• International Childhood Cancer Campaign Month - June
• Effective Communications Month - June
• Home Safety Month - June
• World Environment Day - June 5
• Perennial Gardening Month - June
• Professional Wellness Month - June
• Gay and Lesbian Pride Month - June
• National Aphasia Awareness Month - June
• Rebuild Your Life Month - June
• National Safety Month - June
• National Business Etiquette Week - 1st Week in June
• Carpenter Ant Awareness Week - 3rd Week in June
• National Myasthenia Gravis Awareness Month - June
• National Candy Month - June
• National Student Safety Month - June
• Rose Month - June
• Flag Day - June 14
• National Rivers Month - June
• National Headache Awareness Week - 1st Week in June
• Consumer Awareness Week - 3rd Week in June
• National Automotive Service Professionals Week - 2nd Week in June
• Eye Safety Awareness Week - Last Week in June
• Families in Business Week - 2nd Week in June
• Take A Kid Fishing Weekend - June 10 - June 12, 2012
• National Men's Health Week - June 11 - June 17, 2012
• National Flag Week - June 12 - June 18
• Fathers Day - 3rd Sunday in June
• National Nursing Assistants Week - June 14 - June 21, 2012
• National Health Care Risk Management Week - June 20 - June 24
• National Mosquito Control Awareness Week - 4th Week in June
• Purposeful Parenting Month - July
• Herbal Prescription Awareness Month - July
• Social Wellness Month - July
• International Group B Strep Awareness Month - July
• National Vehicle Theft Protection Month - July
• Parents Day - 4th Sunday in July
• National Black Family Month - July
• National Hemochromatosis Screening and Awareness Month - July
• Roots and Branches Month - July
• Eye Injury Prevention Month - July
• National Recreation and Parks Month - July
• 4th of July - July 4
• National Make a Difference to Children Month - July
• Bioterrorism/Disaster Education and Awareness Month - July
• National Cell Phone Courtesy Month - July
• Family Reunion Month - July
• National Culinary Arts Month - July
• UV Safety Month - July
• National Grilling Month - July
• National Therapeutic Recreation Week - 2nd Week in July
• World Youth Day - July 23 - July 28, 2013
• Captive Nations Week - 3rd Week in July
• National Parks Month - August
• Children's Eye Health and Safety Month - August
• Neurosurgery Outreach Month - August
• National Women's Month - August
• National Immunization Awareness Month - August
• Psoriasis Awareness Month - August
• Be Kind to Humankind Week - Last Week in August
• Beach Month - August
• Happiness Happens Month - August
• National Inventors Month - August
• Cataract Awareness Month - August
• Spinal Muscular Atrophy Awareness Month - August
• Coast Guard Day - August 4
• International Youth Day - August 12
• National Aviation Week - August 15 - August 21, 2012
• Little League World Series - August 16 - August 26, 2012
• Thanks For All The Gifts Week - 3rd Week in August
• Women's Equality Day - August 26
• National Childhood Injury Prevention Week - September 1 - September 7
• Leukemia, Lymphoma And Myeloma Awareness Month - September
• Baby Safety Month - September
• Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Month - September
• National Cholesterol Education Month - September
• National Skin Care Awareness Month - September
• National Preparedness Month - September
• National Campus Safety Month - September
• National Food Safety Education Month - September
• National Emergency Preparedness Week - September 11 - September 17
• National Alcohol and Drug Addiction Recovery Month - September
• National Grandparents Day - September 9
• College Savings Month - September
• Craniofacial Acceptance Month - September
• Gynecologic Cancer Awareness Month - September
• Healthy Aging Month - September
• National Sickle Cell Month - September
• Ovarian Cancer Month - September
• Be Kind to Editors and Writers Month - September
• 5-A-Day Month - September
• Adult Day Services Week - 3rd Week in September
• Child Passenger Safety Week - Last Week in September
• National Infant Mortality Awareness Month - September
• Labor Day - 1st Monday in September
• Healthcare Environmental Services Week - 2nd Week in September
• International Housekeepers Week - 2nd Week in September
• Suicide Prevention Week - 1st Week in September
• Sukkot - September 30 - October 7, 2012
• World Alzheimers Day - September 21
• Yom Kippur - September 25 - September 26, 2012
• International Literacy Day - September 8
• Patriot Day - September 11
• Surgical Technologists Week - 3rd Week in September
• National Rehabilitation Awareness Week - 3rd Week in September
• Hispanic Heritage Month - September 15
• Rosh Hashanah - September 16 - September 18, 2012
• National Day of Prayer & Remembrance for Victims of Hurricane Katrina - September 16
• Constitution Week - September 17 - September 23
• Sneakers at Work Day - September 18
• National Farm Safety and Health Week - 3rd Week in September
• World Heart Day - Last Sunday in September
• Deaf Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• Adult Immunization Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• Prostate Cancer Awareness Week - Last Week in September
• National Reye's Syndrome Awareness Week - 3rd Week in September
• Banned Books Week - Last Week in September
• International Ataxia Awareness Day - September 25
• Class Reunion Month - October
• Women's Small Business Month - October
• Domestic Violence Awareness Month - October
• Positive Attitude Month - October
• Mental Illness Awareness Month - October
• Diversity Awareness Month - October
• National Liver Awareness Month - October
• National Mammography Day - 3rd Friday in October
• Auto Battery Safety Month - October
• National Health Care Food Service Week - 1st Week in October
• National Pharmacy Month - October
• National Physical Therapy Month - October
• National Breast Cancer Awareness Month - October
• Fire Prevention Week - 1st Week in October
• National Make a Difference Day - 4th Saturday in October
• National Chiropractic Month - October
• Healthcare Resource and Materials Management Week - 1st Week in October
• National Customer Service Week - 1st Week in October
• Photographer Appreciation Month - October
• Celiac Sprue Awareness Month - October
• Drive Safely to Work Week - 1st Week in October
• Financial Planning Week - 1st Week in October
• Health Literacy Month - October
• Healthy Lung Month - October
• Last Week To Register To Vote - October 1 - October 7
• Mental Illness Awareness Week - 1st Week in October
• National Animal Safety and Protection Month - October
• National Orthodontic Health Month - October
• National Down Syndrome Month - October
• National Fire Prevention Week - 1st Week in October
• National Book Month - October
• National Depression Screening Day - 1st Thursday in October
• National Health Education Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Crime Prevention Month - October
• Breast Health Awareness Month - October
• National Reading Group Month - October
• National Dental Hygiene Month - October
• Vegetarian Awareness Month - October
• National Newspaper Week - 1st Week in October
• National Window Safety Month - October
• Halloween - October 31
• Physicians Assistant Week - October 6 - October 12
• Teen Read Week - 3rd Week in October
• Head Start Awareness Month - October
• German American Heritage Month - October
• Red Ribbon Month - October
• Polish American Heritage Month - October
• Family Health Month - October
• Halloween Safety Month - October
• Gay and Lesbian History Month - October
• World Space Week - October 4 - October 10
• Emergency Nurses Week - October 7 - October 13, 2012
• International Infection Prevention Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Veterinary Technician Week - 2nd Week in October
• Healthcare Central Service and Sterile Processing Week - 2nd Week in October
• National Mole Day - October 23
• National School Lunch Week - 2nd Week in October
• Improve Your Home Office Week - 2nd Week in October
• World Blindness Awareness Month - October
• World Rainforest Week - 3rd Week in October
• Put The Brakes On Fatalities Day - October 10
• World Mental Health Day - October 10
• Character Counts Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Food Bank Week - October 14 - October 20, 2012
• Global Handwashing Day - October 15
• National Boss Day - October 16
• World Food Day - October 16
• National Respiratory Care Week - Last Week in October
• Kids Care Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Massage Therapy Week - 4th Week in October
• Medical Assistants Week - 3rd Week in October
• Red Ribbon Week - Last Week in October
• National Healthcare Facilities & Engineering Week - Last Week in October
• America's Safe Schools Week - 3rd Week in October
• Freedom Of Speech Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Businesswomen's Week - 3rd Week in October
• National Chemistry Week - 3rd Week in October
• International Credit Union Week - 3rd Week in October
• National School Bus Safety Week - 3rd Week in October
• YWCA Week Without Violence - 3rd Week in October
• United Nations Day - October 24
• Statue of Liberty Dedication Day - October 28
• American Diabetes Month - November
• National Inspirational Role Models Month - November
• COPD Awareness Month - November
• Family Stories Month - November
• Educational Support Personnel Day
• Dear Santa Letter Week - 1st Week in November
• Diwali - November 13
• International Creative Child and Adult Month - November
• National Adoption Month - November
• Long Term Care Awareness Month - November
• Lung Cancer Awareness Month - November
• National Animal Shelter Appreciation Week - 1st Week in November
• National Family Week - 1st Week in November
• National Novel Writing Month - November
• National Scholarship Month - November
• Military Family Appreciation Month - November
• National Hospice Month - November
• Dia de Los Muertos - November 2
• Aviation History Month - November
• American Education Week - 2nd Week in November
• America Recycles Day - November 15
• National Care Week - 1st Week in November
• National Alzheimer's Disease Month - November
• National American Indian Heritage Month - November
• National Family Caregivers Month - November
• National Geography Awareness Week - 3rd Week in November
• National Young Reader's Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Marrow Awareness Month - November
• Home Care Aide Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Pancreatic Cancer Awareness Month - November
• Radiologic Technology Week - 1st Week in November
• Native American Heritage Month - November
• United States Marine Corps Day - November 20
• Vegan Month - November
• World Hello Day - November 21
• World Kindness Week - 2nd Monday in November
• Youth Appreciation Week - 2nd Week in November
• Veterans Day - November 11
• National Hunger and Homelessness Awareness Week - 2nd Week in November
• National Family Volunteer Day - 2nd Saturday in November
• Thanksgiving - 4th Thursday in November
• Great American Smokeout - 3rd Thursday in November
• Humane Society Anniversary Day - November 22
• International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women - November 25
• National Aplastic Anemia Awareness Week - December 1 - December 7
• Learn A Foreign Language Month - December
• National Drugged and Drunk Driving Prevention Month - December
• Identity Theft Prevention and Awareness Month - December
• National Hand Washing Awareness Month - December
• Universal Human Rights Month - December
• Tolerance Week - December 1 - December 7
• Cancer-Related Fatigue Awareness Month - December
• The Christmas Seal Campaign - December
• International Calendar Awareness Month - December
• International Sharps Injury Prevention and Awareness Month - December
• AIDS Awareness Month - December
• Read a New Book Month - December
• World AIDS Day - December 1
• Write to a Friend Month - December
• Hand Washing Awareness Week - 1st Week in December
• Art and Architecture Month - December
• National Drunk and Drugged Driving Prevention Month - December
• National Made in America Month - December
• National Sign-Up for Camp Month - December
• National Write a Business Plan Month - December
• Operation Santa Paws - December
• Safe Toys and Gifts Month - December
• Seasonal Depression Awareness Month - December
• Chanukah - December 8 - December 15, 2012
• Human Rights Week - December 10 - December 17
• Las Posadas - December 16 - December 24
• Christmas - December 25
• Kwanzaa - December 26 - January 1
• World Peace Meditation Day - December 31
• New Year's Eve - December 31
• national depression screeaning day
• National Night Out - 1st Tuesday in August
• National COPD Awareness Month
• National Novel Writing Month
• national-hunger-and-homelessness-awareness-week
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:07pm PT
Just for the record, I'm fine with Veteran's day, although I think that when the president and the media speak of soldiers as the best our society has to offer, it's basically lip service so people will continue to sign up and die for weak reasons.

There's nothing inherently honorable about being a soldier. Throughout history, it has been soldiers (probably following orders) who have committed the the greatest atrocities. The Nazi death camps, millions killed under Pol Pot and in the Chinese Cultural Revolution, 2-3 million South-East Asians killed by the United States in the Vietnam war era, and the rape of Nanjing by the Japanese. All done by Soldiers.

And soldiers just follow orders. There's hardly any evidence of mass refusal and desertion by soldiers in any of the above horrors. So a soldier is only as good as the cause and government who is telling them what to do. Let's fight for the cause of using force only when really needed, not for oil or Israel

peace

Karl
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
Karl.....Really!? On this thread...Really?! Wow!!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
This is the best time of the day the dawn The final cleansing breath unsullied yet By acrid fume or death's cacophony The rank refuse of unchained ambition
And pray, deny me not but know me now Your faithful retainer stands resolute To serve his liege Lord without recompense Perchance to fall and perish namelessly
No flag draped bier or muffled drum to set The cadence for a final dress parade But it was not always thus remember Once you worshipped me and named me a God In many tongues and made offering lest I exact too terrible a tribute
Take heed for I am weary, ancient And decrepit now and my time grows short There are no honorable frays to join Only mean death dealt out in dibs and dabs Or horror unleashed from across oceans
Assail me not with noble policy For I care not at all for platitude And surrender such tedious detail To greater minds than mine and nimbler tongues Singular in their purpose and resolve And presuming to speak for everyman
Oh, for another time, a distant field And there a mortal warrior's lonely grave But duty charges me remain until The end the last battle of the last war
Until that tomorrow render unto me That which is mine my stipend well deserved The fairest flower of your progeny Your sons, your daughters your hopes and your dreams The cruel consequence of your conceit



Warrior, by Steve Earle



Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
Ummm..OK,yeah I even agree with what Karl says(wholeheartedly).My whole time in the military I was constantly told "what are you doin' here?You're definitely not the military type".But the thread title is "Thank You Veterans!".Bashing Veterans Day was not really the reasoning for this thread,nor was arguing.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Nov 13, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
Back on track

Michelle
US Army
Ft Jackson, SC BCT
Ft Sam Houston, TX AIT
Medic
Stationed at Ft Bliss, El Paso, other short term conus locations
I loved my job and didn't want to get out. Long story I'm not interested in sharing here today.


splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
A couple days late, but, I just wanted to post this in memory of my brother in law, who lived hard and died young at 29. He earned a silver star and bronze star and three purple hearts while serving two tours of duty in the USMC in Viet Nam, Sgt. Ronnie Grindle, RIP!

edit: btw, Ronnie (like i shared elsewhere) just before his 17th birthday, tagged along with his older brother and his friends on a joyride and him being in the backseat got nabbed when they got pulled over. The judge gave him a choice of prison or Nam, so he took the latter. Things were definitely very different in the 60's! What a piece of sh#t that judge was, imo! I'm sure he gave many other young men (kids really) the very same choice, fully knowing that a percentage of them would return in a box.

fwiw, i came very close to being drafted and sent to Nam, was ready to go (wouldn't have had a choice) but was fortunate enough to draw a high lottery # 308! I had several good friends that i new since elementary school, were on my little league team, that were not so fortunate, they came back in a coffin. Ronald Dilday, RIP & Randy Eads, RIP!

i just wanted to add that Randy Eads was a "tunnel rat', that is how he died (went into a tunnel and never came out)! I will never forget the night that i heard that news. i was shaping surfboards in a friends garage, and this guy came by and told us that his mother had just got the devastating news that very day...so sad!

IMO, Ronnie, Ronald & Randy were #1 BadAzz's of the world...the epitomy of the word, the REAL deal! Heroes!! Why? Because, when it got right down to it, they were willing to put it all on the line, and die for their brothers!!

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
Funny how many hate cops until the day comes when a "Bad Guy" is breaking down your door, has a 12 gauge sawed off S&W pointed at your face and is ready to tear up and blow your family apart from limb to limb.

Then, oh my, the cops are saints.



Ungratefulness for all that have given in Service of the defense of their nation, regardless where in the world, will indeed be the premise for the fall of this nation. As it has been time and time again in the past 1500 years.

Amazes me how Western Society just doesn't learn it's many lesson from the past.

Even the Dalai Lama himself gives daily recognition for those braves souls that gave their lives protecting him prior to his departure from Tibet.

Oh well.....
John M

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
I don't see anyone here hating on Veterans. Just on how they have been misused, and how corrupt and evil wars have been glorified.

Don't hate the Veteran
Hate the lies and waste brought on by the corrupt.

Maybe Karl's post was misplaced, but I appreciate what he said.

You can protect our servicemen by giving them the best equipment possible.
You can also protect and honor them by making certain their service isn't for corrupt and evil purposes.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:41pm PT
You can also protect them by just simply saying "Thank You!" and leaving it at that.


Trust me, them two words mean more than anyone that has never served, will ever know.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
There is definitely the "brothers in arms" that only some understand.It cannot be explained,only felt.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
Name:Erik O.
Branch of Service: USMC
Years of Service: 4 years in reserve that started during the first Iraq war
Where you Basic trained: San Diego
Where you were stationed: 4th MTM Co., Sacramento, CA
If in a war where? No, thankfully.......
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
Democracy cannot survive a professional army, never has, never will.
DMT, not sure what you meant here? As opposed to what, an unprofessional army?

Democracy just doesn't have that much experience with armies period, professional or otherwise......


Coz, blind observance of anything is worthless. Yes, you've worked with military folk, but there are plenty of vets on this site that understand what Karl is saying, so stand down brother.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
There is definitely the "brothers in arms" that only some understand.It cannot be explained, only felt.

YUP!

And missed so dearly, daily.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
Karl,

I agree with most of what you said. In my opinion WW2 was pretty much the last "honorable" war we fought in.
Having a few purple hearts, and hopefully more wisdom with age, I think my perspective has sharpened.

I was going to be drafted or escape to Canada. At that time, I thought it might be some sort of "grand adventure", and didn't even think of the alternative.

It was a learning experience.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:15pm PT
LIke all off-topic threads, they only survive with a little controversy. I admit that I really didn't want to post my message on this thread, but I'm also sensitive about creating multiple off-topic but similar threads on Supertopo, so maybe I made the wrong call. Sorry if that's the case. But if I did create a new one, this one was already long gone, so at least now we have a discussion.

I am actually a lot more FOR the welfare of the soldiers than many who pay them lip service. If you get sent to a bunk useless war like Iraq, and exposed to depleted uranium and perhaps having some parts blown off, how much support are you really getting from folks who say "It's unpatriotic to question the war, support our troops!"

If that was the way we all acted, the troops would still be there suffering for nothing. A patriot who supports the troops will yell "It's a phony illegal war and nobody should have be the last man to die for a mistake."

If we had a thread to thank the Free-soloists for risking their life for the advancement of our sport, you can bet people would chime in and say "Wait a minute. Isn't glorifying them putting others at risk when there's another side to the story"

If there are some veterans out there who joined for purely altruistic reasons of service, post up and I thank you in advance. For others who bought into the program and found it wasn't what they signed up for, I stand with you and don't blame you. I'm just putting the brakes on the blind hero worship that winds up being counter-productive the minute we're fighting a new senseless war

Peace

karl
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
Regarding the issue of a professional army. It may be a inescapable reality now, but the consequences of this have been best outlined by a high level pinko leftie

The Republican Top General and former president, Dwight D Eisenhower

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

He called it and that's why Romney wanted to increase military spending by 2 trillion even though it doubled since 2001. Not for treating the soldiers better, but just supporting the whole industry of defense.

It's a short clip. Listen and consider

Peace

karl
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:24pm PT
Karl, while I agree with you about needlessly wasting our men, women and treasure, but don't be a fool and think that these powers are not necessary to the way you have been born, raised, educated and so on.

I too want us to move beyond these things. But until that happens, you want the most badass mutherfukkers possible on your team.

You have that, be grateful.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
"Greater love no man has than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

edit: when it got right down to it, it was "your brothers in arms" that you were fighting for. My brother-in-law was willing to do just that. His platoon (actually company/several platoons) were surrounded and nearly out of amo with no outside contact (lost contact with their fire base/or whatever its called). He was the Sargent of his platoon. Evidently, several others had volunteered to try and break through, but they were not successful (died). he volunteered (didn't have to, but someone did or they all would have died). He made it. Ran 18 mi through the jungle to get help. It just about killed him (earned him his 3rd purple heart). He was awarded a Silver Star for it. imo, THAT is a f*#kin' HERO!

Randy Eads didn't have to crawl down into those damn holes! But, the VC were popping up and shooting the sh#t out of all his buddies, then dissipearing into them holes unscathed. He did his damnedest to find out where those holes were going, where they were going to pop up next. Plus, they were filled with amo & weapons, etc, that were being used to kill his "brothers". First and foremost, he did it for them!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
Naw Dingus

I don't mind stirring up a hornets nest, but would much rather have posted to a thread about the military in general and not one that focused on individuals. I apologize if individual feelings were hurt as a result.

and I do think there were many soldiers who felt morally compelled to join the service in WW2 because of the pearl harbor attack which was likely to be followed by more attacks. That's a far cry from Vietnam. But to consider the morality of different wars is more a matter of commenting on government than of the soldiers, because soldiers only get to follow orders, regardless of the validity of the cause

Peace

karl
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:30pm PT
Karl,

Please give it a break.


Some of us do have fallen comrades that we honor daily for what they gave. Some of us also pay the heavy price for that deed falling on them and not on us.

All of it not for you or me.


But for all of US! Regardless of time or place or political affiliation.



Please do respect that.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:32pm PT
Karl, while I agree with you about needlessly wasting our men, women and treasure, but don't be a fool and think that these powers are not necessary to the way you have been born, raised, educated and so on.

I too want us to move beyond these things. But until that happens, you want the most badass mutherfukkers possible on your team.

You have that, be grateful.

Since I was born, I don't see that as being true. We could have got by better with fewer wars, and a smaller military. As it is now, we can obliterate any country in the world in seconds, and precision kill any little building with it's inhabitants without putting any badasses in danger. So why are we going into huge debt screwing around in so many places on the planet? To enforce our economic hegemony, not protect freedom.

You can be plenty badass and you'll never beat guys who are fighting for "HOME" We had every advantage in Vietnam and Afghanistan but people fighting for their homes never give up, and if they do, they just rise again when you leave.

Peace

karl
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
and I do think there were many soldiers who felt morally compelled to join the service in WW2 because of the pearl harbor attack which was likely to be followed by more attacks. That's a far cry from Vietnam. But to consider the morality of different wars is more a matter of commenting on government than of the soldiers, because soldiers only get to follow orders, regardless of the validity of the cause


I know this might be hard for you Karl, but there are those that feel the same call regardless of the conflict, and regardless what your history book and what your personal ethic says.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Thing is Chief, the thread was gone and history without this discussion. I'm happy to let it die again. Does that serve anything

I'm not saying anything negative about soldiers here, only the way they are misused and treated. Maybe Soldiers should get over their conditioned manner of silence over the horror of what they go through and question the government as well, so others don't have to do what they did

It's called cognitive dissonance when what you want to believe turns out to be untrue so you shut up and keep believing what you know deep inside isn't really it. As long as that happens, the status quo goes on and we get more of the same

More of the same is going to kill us all so somebody has to be a squeaky wheel

peace

Karl
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
I know this might be hard for you Karl, but there are those that feel the same call regardless of the conflict, and regardless what your history book and what your personal ethic says.

Precisely, Thank You and +1.

Thing is Chief, the thread was gone and history without this discussion. I'm happy to let it die again. Does that serve anything

A simple "Thank You" to all the brave souls that served will do.

All the other political and moral stuff can be said in another thread that you can start.. please.

I am so tired of individuals politcizing these few threads that exist out there, regardless of site, who's intent was merely to say "Thank You" for your Service.

Would be nice for a change to leave them alone and let them stand for what they are. A little note of gratitude and respect.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:38pm PT
I like The Chief!
MissJ

Social climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
First, let me reassure you Veterans that to some of us your time served isn't just remembered one day a year. We thank anyone we know who served on a daily basis ( even if they just sat behind a desk because had their number come up they would have had to fight too)

Thank you Coz, Survival, Capt and Chief for trying to save the thread for that which it was intended.

I can see a lot of history here and some thoughts that don't have to be spoken.

Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard....Thank you again!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
I know this might be hard for you Karl, but there are those that feel the same call regardless of the conflict, and regardless what your history book and what your personal ethic says.

If this is true, all the more reason to strenuously question war and the glorification of it. Because if there are people who selflessly sacrifice and believe in the validity of any war the government sponsors, we have to protect them by holding the powers that be's feet to the fire.

Because remember, our soldiers are out there killing other foreign soldiers who are in the same boat, they signed up, or were drafted for their government's war. They are unlikely to be morally any more deficient than our soldiers. We have this myth that only WE are noble

Peace

Karl
Captain...or Skully

climber
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
That's a mighty high horse, Karl.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
Because remember, our soldiers are out there killing other foreign soldiers who are in the same boat, they signed up, or were drafted for their government's war

As did the Dalai Lama's Soldiers did when the Chinese invaded their land and attempted to murder him. And they laid down their lives so that he could live and continue the tradition of the people.

Had they not done so, his Holiness would have certainly been killed.

Warriors are a dire need in order to keep the traditions and freedoms of the people alive. Not everyone is meant to be one. But for those of us that decided to join that small Band of Brotherhood, regardless of service, nation or what ever, those that they defended should honor them, always.

Had those few not done so, the freedoms/liberty's of the people would most certainly not be here today.

The irony of all that is that 99.9% of the time, I can tell ya I did what I did not for you all. Rather, for those that were shoulder to shoulder with me doing what we chose to do on a daily basis.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
We have this myth that only WE are noble

Most of us veterans know better than that.

WE (whoever that is) were noble in the revolutionary war, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea (You wouldn't believe how many wreaths I've seen in DC from Korean citizens) and you might also be amazed by how many Vietnamese thank us as well, for our effort. I lived next to a Vietnamese shopping mall where there was a South Vietnamese flag flying 24 hours a day. It never came down.

It's just not as simple as war is bad Karl, sorry.....
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
Fact is, if I ever contemplated those folks back home that were whining and bitching about war, the military etc. I most likely would have turned my wep on them for being selfish and totally disrespectful to all the Brothers in Arms I watched first hand give their all and fall for them. All doing so selflessly.

Ponder and chew on that Karl and the rest of you all that have absolutely NO clue to what it's like to fill our boots.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Nov 13, 2012 - 04:59pm PT
Maybe Soldiers should get over their conditioned manner of silence over the horror of what they go through and question the government as well, so others don't have to do what they did

Yes, there IS a culture of keep it to yourself. They're making effort to dispel that but it won't change anytime soon. But I gotta say Karl, this statement is really unenlightened and lacks compassion. Here's why. wait, nevermind, unless you've been through it, you just can't understand. It's people who say "just get over it" that boil my blood. I didn't deploy, I was raped. I was told 2 weeks ago by another Vet that if this had happened to me while I worked at a bank, I wouldn't get any of the VA benefits that I have because I didn't kill anyone or get shot at. I just wanted to do my job.

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Nov 13, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
This being a thread to thank veterans, how'bout moving it back to that.

I haven't served. My dad did and my son does. Dad joined up in '42 , age 21, because he had friends overseas fighting Hitler or the Japanese and he felt he should put forward his effort towards an Allied victory. He trained in the RCAF in Manitoba on Lancasters as a navigator but the war ended before he went overseas.

My son serves in the RCN and is training in the acoustic dep't. Has volunteered for the silent service. Will letchya know next Remembrance Day how that's going.

Thankyou vets! May wars be few! May Peace prevail!

The Cenotaph at Victory Square in Vancouver reads:
"Their name liveth for evermore"
"Is it nothing to you."
"All ye that pass by."
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:24pm PT
Name: “Hippie” name given to me by my fellow team members

Branch of Service: US Army

Years of Service: 1966-1968 minus three months or short

Where you Basic trained: Ft. Ord, CA and Ft. Benning, Georgia

Where you were stationed: Viet Nam with the 101st Airborne

If in a war where? Viet Nam: Duc Pho, Chu Lai, Ban Loc, Phan Rang, Song Ve, Cambodia, Saigon, Cam Ranh Bay and surrounding areas, Da Nang and surrounding areas, a few other areas, last mission Southeast of Hue in the hills gathering info on route 547: a year prior to the battles for A Shau valley. The first one was a Special Forces camp a few years earlier that was over run and held by the North Vietnamese.

Good thoughts and thinking about what some have said here as well as the Honour during Sandy Storm post. That one went somewhere else as well but things need to be addressed as well on this site which I will address both by this week. Chief you are doing it again you can address your anger on my post by the end of this week, as others on thoughts about war.

As for now: To all that have served that still live no matter what you believe was right or wrong, for my fellow team members;just needed one second; thought I was history but the last few that were left got me home. Thanks.

And an Honour to the men, who I killed, sacrificed and are suffering the same pains like a lot of our own as well in fighting against us for their country for what they believed in. A salute to the veterans and people of Viet Nam.

Some memories are best lost, but then there are those of who you served with which are best saved forever.
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:38pm PT
82nd Airborne
82nd Airborne
Credit: some leg
US Army
1.5 years
Ft. Lenord Wood, MO- Boot camp
Ft. Bragg, NC- Stationed

I released myself on my own recognicance, I felt the institution no longer had anything to offer me.
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:54pm PT
Karl -

I respect many of the things you have posted on ST but this thread is not about which war you approved of. It's about the individuals who served their country and whether you think they were righteous or not, you benefit from their sacrifices and contributions.

Those who failed morally in their actions in uniform are to be held accountable but just as the US military has not always been noble, neither have our opponents. Nothing about war is pretty or neatly controlled by the Geneva Agreements. This should be remembered when those tenets are transgressed by warriors in battle.

There may have been too many wars, in your opinion, which I do not dispute. We could all do with fewer of our brothers in arms, our sons and daughters dieing in uniform. On the other hand, some wars may have been prevented by our military intervention in the face of foreign hegemony. This may be a matter of political conjecture. Nonetheless, what the Generals, Presidents, Premiers and kings decide to do with military might is very different from what this thread is about.

Keith
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 13, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
As for now: To all that have served that still live no matter what you believe was right or wrong, for my fellow team members;just needed one second; thought I was history but the last few that were left got me home. Thanks.

And an Honour to the men, who I killed, sacrificed and are suffering the same pains like a lot of our own as well in fighting against us for their country for what they believed in. A salute to the veterans and people of Viet Nam.

Some memories are best lost, but then there are those of who you served with which are best saved forever.

Great Post
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Nov 13, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
Chief you are doing it again you can address your anger on my post by the end of this week, as others on thoughts about war.

No anger.

Just a major difference of opinion as to what I chose as a career (a "Lifer") and what you as did others, had no choice in the matter.

There lies the difference.

Neither good, bad or indifferent and it should remain so.

I respect what you had no say in doing. So I ask that you respect what I in turn chose to do as a profession.


Also, if you in fact were USA SpecOps Operator "in country", you most assuredly worked shoulder to shoulder with many of my first Chiefs, Senior Chiefs, Master Chiefs a Warrant or two and some LT's and LCDR's.

What LRRP Det/s were you with?
nmba1gi

Trad climber
North Bay
Nov 13, 2012 - 11:49pm PT
On another level I believe the military service question haunts every man of my generation (I'm 64): Specifically what were you supposed to do regarding Vietnam? No one was immune and we all live with our choice today and use time and circumstance to rationalize our decision.

Opposed to the war and killing - so do everything you can think of to get out of the draft (Canada, be a fairy at the induction physical, claim religious objection even if you were an atheist, march organize, tell your draft board to go to hell and take you licks in state prison.

For the war: Sign on, boy!

But in one sense it boils down (in retrospect) to defining yourself as a man. Our fathers all responded w/o hesitation to WWII. We pampered baby boomers weren't ready to don the olive drab and take a bullet for uncle. In the popular sense, however, there was no other measurement of manhood. I think that quandary was the silent partner to all our maneuvers during the time of Vietnam.

April 1967 I marched against the war in San Francisco.
July-sep 67 boot camp San Diego
sep 67-dec 67 comm school Norfolk
Jan 68-July 69 Navy Comm Sta Guam
Aug 69-Aug 70 navy support base cam ranh bay

My time in Vietnam, altho at times (infrequently) scary was nothing like what some of the posters went through.

The ambiguity of the whole thing, from moral decisions to manhood to an experience I'll never forget, stays with me

For me, at least, the real heroes of Vietnam were the people who said fu*k you to the whole thing and took the consequences and the people who slogged thru the jungle with three months boot camp and a little AIT.

The most contemptible are today's right wing power brokers and pundits who squirmed their way out.
dogtown

Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
Nov 14, 2012 - 12:00am PT
I am always amazed when this day comes once a year and everyone knows some one that is a Vet and in fact shows their appreciation for them.

The rest of the year, just like Christmas etc, all is forgotten.

Me, it was my chosen profession that I enjoyed thoroughly for 24 years, 3 months a 9 days which I gave my heart and soul to daily.

For those very few out there including here on ST that do think & show their respect and appreciation about us Vets on a regular basis, thank you.

(The Chief)

You hit the nail on the head Chief! I also thank all of you! You just don’t know how much it means to us to feel that love. I to was a chosen professional and would change only one thing. To win, winning is important. To crush them. Or don’t do it at all. War is not something you do half ass, it’s a pity we are doing it again leaving before we win. To waste American life to an ungrateful people again is more than one can bear.

Thank you, God blesses you all.

DT.
Gilroy

Social climber
Boulderado
Nov 14, 2012 - 01:00am PT
I am not necessarily in the Chief's boat (sic) on this subject, but more identify with the ambiguity nmba1gi addresses.

//But in one sense it boils down (in retrospect) to defining yourself as a man. Our fathers all responded w/o hesitation to WWII. We pampered baby boomers weren't ready to don the olive drab and take a bullet for uncle. In the popular sense, however, there was no other measurement of manhood. I think that quandary was the silent partner to all our maneuvers during the time of Vietnam.//

I was compelled by all the social forces of the times and in my young mind to oppose the war in Viet Nam. And I have opposed most of the conflicts we have engaged in since then, yet I could not leave the USA nor my family when I became eligible for the draft. Absolutely could not.

My father was 4-F deferred during WW II and regretted the classification strongly, to say the least. He expressed himself in absolute terms when I raised the subject of avoiding the draft and threatened to ostracize me from our family if I went to Canada. Ultimately, I enlisted with my draft notice in my back pocket.

As luck would have it, I did not have to go to war as noted in my first post upthread but I did experience what it was like to serve my country and it was a great opening of my understanding of service and patriotic duty.

Just living the life of a decent person in a spot on the map of a country is not near enough to repay the debt the opportunities given you deserve. My time in the military imbued me with a better understanding of citizenship beyond voting. I am still not a flag-waving republican sort but have seen the price paid by combat veterans and civilians alike who risked their wellbeing in service of others. We all owe this to each other and national service whether in the military or otherwise should be required IMHO.

To me, it was not a requirement for manhood but a sense of responsibility to our nation, my community, others who had served honorably and, ultimately, to my family that compelled me to enlist despite my ambiguity about the military at the time. This understanding became more clear to me over time. I just wish there was a non-military option for citizens to consider.

Keith
Guangzhou

Trad climber
Asia, Indonesia, East Java
Nov 14, 2012 - 01:01am PT
Wow, this thread has deteriorated.

I was always impressed with people who could dedicate their entire life to the service. (Regardless of the branch) It's not an easy life for the service members or their families.

While many people out there believe that soldiers are war mongers looking to go fight fight fight, most of the soldiers I know who've been in a war setting prefer peace any day.

Looking at the history of some service members posting here, I realize how small my contributions were. A few Peace Keeping missions and minor conflict don't compare to what some here experienced in a single month in Vietnam, Korea or WWII.

While stationed in Germany, in the 90s, I was having a drink at a local tavern. A guy old enough to be my grandfather was next to me and we chatted, he spoke nearly perfect English. When I asked why he spoke English so Fluently, he said it was so he could "Kill American Soldiers during the Second World War." I went through every emotion in one second, I think he did too. Yes, people fight on both sides and believe they are right. With that said, I am naive enough to believe America is on the right side more often than not.

I don't glorify war, I hope America never has to fight one on it's soil. I would love to see a world where the military wasn't needed, but it won't be in my life time, nor my children's or grandchildren. As long a country has something that someone else wants, that country needs to defend itself. Technology is great, but as a former infantryman I know that the war or battle isn't won until people actually occupy the land.

On Veteran's Day this Year, I picked up War Letters, Edited by Andrew Carroll. the Legacy Project is doing what it can to preserve letter sent home from war, or from home to war. Mentioning it here in case of you who served have letters somewhere that need preserving.

ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:17pm PT
My father (who thankfully is still around) served as a cryptography officer in the Air Force during the Korean war.

He told me "Son, you are very lucky to live in this country, and you owe some kind of service to your country for this. It can be the Peace Corps, military, being involved in helping through volunteering, but you NEED to give something back to this country to help pay back for the ease of life and opportunity you've been born into"

I volunteered for the Army about 1 1/2 yrs later.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 15, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
Wow, this thread has deteriorated.


Not at all. A healthy two, three or four sided conversation is just what this country needs, AT ALL TIMES!
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
but you NEED to give something back to this country...
WORD!!!
jogill

climber
Colorado
Nov 15, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
Lt/Capt (USAF+Reserves)
1958-1962
Mostly on the Canadian border in Montana supporting round-the-clock B-52s and F101Bs.




For me, the most despicable kind of politician is a Chicken Hawk.
squishy

Mountain climber
Nov 15, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
No need for thanks, self-less service is self-less service. I actually don't like veterans day so much because it gives all those who have no clue a reason to try and sound like they do, to show gratitude for something they simply will never understand. I would prefer silence over gratitude. I would prefer support over praise. Give to your nearest veterans support groups, as most soldiers know, actions speak louder than words...
Blakey

Trad climber
Sierra Vista
Nov 15, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
I'd go with that Squishy.

Steve
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 17, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
SA Brian Bermingham
USN, 6-67/6-68.
USS Neversail, Treasure Is., CA

Short stay, long memories. Glad for the experience. Sad for those who fell in VN, and especially for these men of worth who were sacrificed for who knew what yet they did it for US.

I am cognizant that Memorial Day is more fitting for these personnel. However, any time we remember Vets, we should remember those who would gladly have lived to be Vets in the sense of Veterans' Day. They should be here but for the fately fingle of ficker.

Always remember. Never forget.

Credit: mouse from merced
Credit: mouse from merced
Credit: mouse from merced
Credit: mouse from merced
Credit: mouse from merced
(My apologies for the tardiness, but I had trouble locating these clippings.)

Ten-hut! Present--aarms!


I hope this jacks up this thread. You folks deserve the big bump. Thanks.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 6, 2013 - 08:33pm PT


http://mynorthwest.com/11/2387625/Local-WWII-Medal-of-Honor-recipient-John-Bud-Hawk-dies-at-age-89
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Nov 6, 2013 - 09:32pm PT
Not at all. A healthy two, three or four sided conversation is just what this country needs, AT ALL TIMES!

No sh#t. And not just your country, Bruce, but all countries.

I am the son of a professional soldier, who later traded in his military uniform and weapons for scrubs and a scalpel. A man who has seen it from all sides. When I was nearing high school graduation and told him I was going to sign up, he was seriously unhappy. But he backed me nonetheless.

My military career was relatively short and totally undistinguished, but it left its marks, and as John Gill said above, one of those marks is an intense disgust with chicken hawks.
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
Marian (Joerres) Gants
USAF 1975-1979
Basic Training: Lackland AFB, TX
E-4 1st Aerial Port, Dyess, TX
Drop Zone, Air Freight, Heavy Equipment Operator
Rhein Main AB Germany
Transportation Special Equipment
Garmisch-Partenkirchen (Berchtesgaden) Ski Patrol Winter 1977-1978
USAFR 1985-1989
E-5 Air Terminal Operation Control (ATOC)
Georgia, Washington State, Alaska, South Korea, Hawaii, Philippines, Germany
Vietnam Era
Desert Shield
Desert Storm

People say, "Thank you for your service." my reply, "It was an honor."

Bluelens

climber
Pasadena, CA
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:50pm PT
Worth a visit is the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Angel Fire, NM near Taos. It's a stunning setting in the mountains with a little something for all--a Huey, a garden, a chapel, a museum, a room for veterans to log their visit and connect with their fellow soldiers and sailors.
Privately owned at one time, now a state park.
Chapel, Angel Fire NM
Chapel, Angel Fire NM
Credit: Bluelens
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:11am PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Foss


Check this out- I wouldn't have known who he was if I hadn't been jacked up by the TSA in Phoenix coming back from Mexico.

That morning, I returned my rental truck after dropping friends and husband and my luggage as well, off at the terminal. Our usual operation on these fishing safaris, is to throw the change in the cup holder during the week for the guy that cleans all the sand out of car or truck. BUT, once there to turn the truck in, I still needed a ride back to the terminal and I had nothing with me but a passport and credit card. YIKES. Survival instincts set in and I stole back the intended tip that was in the cup holder, and put that change into my pocket. I salvaged my good tourist juju by tipping the shuttle driver when he dropped me at the terminal-embarassment avoided.

Phoenix was the halfway point and we had to clear customs and go through security again. TSA had just received their new x-ray body scanner. Holy shit! All of a sudden I was told to drop my things and stand on the footprints so they could scan me with a wand. Then pat me down. They kept saying "what do you have in your pockets?" Nothing.!!.. my husband is standing by thinking "what did she do NOW?" My best friend took out her cell phone and started taking pictures of name tags. She was starting to freak- and I kept saying- "really, nothing". Next was a private room. Once in there I had to drop my pants. Now, being 59 at the time, I wasn't going to be caught dead in Granny Pants-I wear mine tight-my theory- use it or loose it- WTF- it was a 5 centavo piece the size of an average jean button stuck up in the seam of my pocket by my waistband- boy, I could do alot of damage with THAT! Am I gonna make my plane??? without a 1/4 mile dash??

I got home and I called my other best friend and told her the story. She said, Look up my Grandfather, Joe Foss, TSA *IN PHOENIX* took away his medal of honor when he was flying from his home (Scottsdale AZ) to an inauguration ball(that maybe my memory of what she told me) that he was invited to in Washington,DC. They took it because they thought it could potentially be a weapon because of the pins that can go through a coat. The TSA agents passed it around. No one knew what it was. My friend said that this event was probably listed on Google - when I did look her grandfather up, I found out General Joe Foss, USMC, was the highest scoring ACE pilot on record in WWII (and much more). He had a pretty amazing story. Direct flights from now on!!
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:56am PT
I have such mixed feelings about Veteran's Day.

If we could separate the veteran's personal service from the sometimes-ugly-nationalism that drove their service, I would feel better about celebrating the holiday. Afterall, a individual man can serve honorably in a illegal or unjustified war, especially when it is learned later than his leader have lied.

(But don't all leaders lie all of the time anyway?)

So I salute all veterans who naively put their lives on "hold" in order to kill fellow human beings in the service of dishonest and greedy politicians who made decisions that alienated the people who later became our enemies with whom we eventually went to war and killed.

Salute!
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 8, 2013 - 02:20am PT
Sierra Ledge Rat (what a great visual I have when I typed your "name"-)
I think you have to live it to get it.. Looking at THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX from a distance doesn't really get it. There are many more humanitarian efforts then there are war efforts. You'd be surprised..

The Germans "should" love us..they don't. But the South Koreans do love us and their enemy is as real today and as evil as it was 60+/- years ago. The old people haven't forgotten.

ZZZZZZZZ.. I'm done for the day..
(manemachen=horse mane braider..)

PS- DOGTOWN: my favorite movie- PATTON with George C Scott- the last lines sum up the whole thing..for centuries..
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:18am PT
I think you have to live it to get it..


I have 10 years active duty in combat arms
Departed honorably as an O-4

I "get it"
jopay

climber
so.il
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:42am PT
Payne
U.S. Army
Basic: Ft Leonard Wood
AIT: Ft. Bliss, Tx
3 years
SP5-E5
Stationed: Edgewood Aresnal, MD.
Giessen, Germany

1966-69
Vietnam Era
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:04am PT
This is what Veteran's Day should be on a daily basis...

13 Marines get impromptu Chicago airport welcome.

CHICAGO (AP) — It didn't matter that the 13 Marines on their way home from Afghanistan had been fighting in a war that no longer dominates the news or that they were stopping only for a short time in Chicago before flying to San Diego.

When USO volunteer John Colas heard with just an hour's notice that the Marines' plane was bearing down on Chicago's O'Hare International Airport, he and others scrambled to make sure they got a hero's welcome.

"We want these kids coming home to realize that they haven't been forgotten," said Colas, a 74-year-old former Marine.

The reception started with a water salute in which their plane taxied underneath an arch of water from fire truck hoses.

The Marines, who had spent the better part of five days getting on and off planes to get home from the other side of the world, were then met by a small crowd of cheering USO volunteers, firefighters, police officers and airport workers as they walked into the terminal.

A short time later, boarding another jet for San Diego, the Marines learned that American Airlines — which has a policy to upgrade servicemen and women in uniform whenever possible — had six empty seats in first class for the group.

That gesture was followed by seven first-class passengers who jumped out of their seats for the other Marines so they could sit together.
http://news.yahoo.com/13-marines-impromptu-chicago-airport-welcome-073124637.html


Thank you all who have served our Nation in uniform. There are many citizens out there that take our service for granted. That don't matter none. Because for most of us that served, we did not do it for them. We did it for one another. We learned how to put our differences aside and if the time ever came, we would without hesitation, take the bullet for one another. We will continue that unwritten oath till the day we die.


I leave you with this heartwarming tale...


Flight turns unforgettable when passengers learn of fallen soldier.


Delta Flight 2255 from Atlanta to Los Angeles seemed to be an ordinary flight with the exception of Candy, who was the most loving flight attendant I’ve ever encountered. Besides using her Southern charm to quickly defuse every situation, she began her welcome announcement by thanking the handful of uniformed soldiers on-board for serving our country. Her poignant message was followed by applause, and it put into perspective that none of us would be able to do what we do without these brave men and women.

But this transcontinental flight turned out to be everything but ordinary. We later learned, when the captain got on the PA system about 45 minutes prior to landing, that we were transporting a fallen soldier. The plane went quiet as he explained that there was a military escort on-board and asked that everyone remain seated for a couple of minutes so the soldiers could get off first. He also warned us not to be alarmed if we see fire trucks since Los Angeles greets their fallen military with a water canon salute. See my video below.

A few minutes after touchdown, we did indeed have a water canon salute, which I’d previously only experienced on happy occasions like inaugural flights. This time, the water glistening on the windowpanes looked like tears.

When the jet door opened, another military officer addressed the escort who was standing at attention. He then stepped on the plane and told us passengers “I just addressed the escort. It is a sworn oath to bring home, to the family, the fallen.” He paused and then said, “Today you all did that, you are all escorts, escorts of the heart.” And then thanked us for our time and walked off the plane.
http://travel.yahoo.com/ideas/fallen-soldier-213011521.html







ABHC(CNAC/NPJ) USN(RET)
3JAN1975 - 19JUN1999
CV-66
NAS Lemoore SAR
VXE-SIX (TAD NAS Lemoore/Fallon SAR)
BUD/S
CV-43
CVN-65
OP REST HOPE & Support SPECOPS CSAR(HCS-5)
SERE
CVN-65/LHA-1/AIRPAC RETRA/QAT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:18am PT
Well said Sierra Ledge Rat. Salute.

You too the Chief.

The best thing a person can do for vets is to shout loudly to our leaders - bring the boys back home. No more war.

Do it. Honor a vet. Stop rattling someone else's sword.

DMT
macleodnc

Trad climber
ca
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Macleod
USMC
MCRD San Diego
2007-2011
Camp Kinser, Okinawa
3rd Maint. Bn. CLR-35 ELMACO (Electronics Maint. Co.)
Calibrators... What a bunch of yahoos!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Sierra Ledge Rat has my proxy. Well said, sir. John F Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson
can rot in hell. Hopefully Bush will soon join them.
mooch

Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:41am PT
Name: Dave Daly (aka Mooch)

Branch of Service: USMC (Uncle Sam's Misguided Children)

Years of Service: 1983-2003

Where you Basic trained: Parris Island, SC (Boot Camp), Aug 1983

Where you were stationed: MCAS El Toro (CA), MCAS Kaneohe Bay (HI), MCAS Iwakuni (Japan), NAS Lemoore (CA). NAWS China Lske (CA), MCAS Miramar (CA)
Sea Time: (3 years - USS Ranger, USS Constellation, USS Nimitz, USS Abraham Lincoln, USS John C Stennis

If in a war where? ODS (Operation Desert Shield) & OEF (Operation Enduring Freedom)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Well done Mooch.

The full 20 in the beloved Corps. Takes a special breed.
Barbarian

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Name: Scott Allen

Branch of Service: US Army

Years of Service: 1976 - 1980

Where you trained: Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, then Ft. Huachuca, AZ

Where you were stationed: B Co, 104th MI BN, Ft. Carson, CO


I stood with my fellow Veterans last night at a concert put on by a local high school. Great music following a program derived from the old Navy Hour radio show. No less than twenty World War 2 vets stood before the crowd to be recognized for their service. I felt honored that they let a kid like me stand with them.
The highlight for me was watching 3 young marines in full dress uniforms wait at the bottom of the stairs and thank each and every veteran for their service.
My thanks go out to all who served. And I have a special place in my heart for Mr. Jim Kollias, band director at Beckman High School in Irvine, CA who goes out of his way every year to honor those served in the Armed Forces.
Evel

Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
@ Mooch: University of Science, Music and Culture!

Semper Fi Bro, and Happy Birthday to our Corps!
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
As I said upthread, I was stationed near Pusan Korea 74 -75. I'll say one thing, I met some real nice climbers there that showed me some cool routes. These two are on a wall that is now pretty much all sport, not back then. I think they were in the 5.8 to 5.9 range, we were doing most of these in big boots or gray suede shoes with stoppers, hexes and a stich plate.

Busan, Korea
Busan, Korea
Credit: ydpl8s

Busan, Korea
Busan, Korea
Credit: ydpl8s
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
You know, I have mixed feelings about this "holiday." I loved the Army and didn't want to get out. When I joined at 36, I fully intended in putting in many years. I was to learn the hard way that brotherhood was frequently only extended to brothers, not sisters. God forbid a woman stand up and report a rape. Talk about ostracism and lack of support. It is disgusting how manystill believe we have no business in the Armed Forces. But whatever, not my problem. I am told by people: you're not a real Vet because you didn't deploy, because you got out, because you werent combat arms, etcetcetc. I'm also told I don't deserve my disability benefits because of those reasons and one person informed me that rape shouldn't be covered at all,in any way. I'm still plotting revenge on that guy. I usually blow these dicks off. It's when my friends or people that I assume are supportive share these negative opinions. I guess that's life though. Maybe they're just bitter because I get free Subway.. lol and the hippies just crack me up :)

In the end, I AM a Veteren, regardless of these silly opinions. I work at being available for other women Vets who suffer from MST (and men too). I'm grateful for the support I get and am always open about my experience so that perhaps I can still be of service. I forgot who said it above but I too prefer silence to gratitude or pity, in my case. It's just something I chose to do.





manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 8, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Sierra Ledge Rat- my apology for the oversight- I did see the photo of you in your flight suit- kinda cute there. I was worn down a bit after reading Karl's posts which are thoughts similar to mine sometimes when watching the evening news..Working ATOC gave me a chance to see simultaneous operations going on within the Pacific theater. Things such as "Burn Flights" coming from Marine bases in Asia to the burn center in Texas. Special Handling flights which included soldiers heading home the last time, Food and Supplies to the '88 fires in Yellowstone and even, I remember that it was the Air Force that responded to the "delightful" task of recovering stinking bloated bodies from the Jonestown massacre and returning the dead US citizens to Dover Delaware in a C-5. For me, the military was always people supporting other people to make a bad situation a little better. F*#k the (intrinsically embedded) politics..which Yes, are VERY DIFFICULT to overlook. It was unintended, but I received more than I gave.
YAK, YAK, Type, Type. But, please accept my apology..
("Sierra Ledge Rat" made me remember the big tree growing about 1/8th of the way up El Cap on a ledge- had not thought of that in 30 years).
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Michelle, I know you feel dissed. And from what I've heard you f*#king should be!

Some of us respect your attempts to serve the country, and indeed, think of you as a vet. I do.

I regret never serving my country. I was a bit of an anti-military brat when I was younger. I was stupid.

Let's go climbing again, Michelle. I'll call it 'take a Vet climbing day'. But let's just do it.

Cheers!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 11, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Having never done a day's service to the country in my life, my hat is off to ALL you Veterans. I don't care if your unit were the ones in the dark with fixed bayonets, sneaking around looking to make contact with the enemy, or if your entire military career was spent in Monterey California, on National Guard duty, working the mess hall one weekend a month making sure everybody got something to eat. You all are tougher than I am, and a hell of a lot more responsible. I'm glad I don't have to think about how things would be without people like you.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
Name: Scott Leeper
Branch of Service: Army
Years of Service: 8
Where you Basic trained:Fort Leonard Wood
Where you were stationed: Stuttgart Deutschland
If in a war where? no thank God
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
I will salute all Taco Vets and those outside the TacoStand. And this includes Dingus Milktoast.

God bless all our vets! I should not not have to say this, but I f*#king will! I respect the Armed Services and what they do.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Thanks for the typical sanctimonious crap Karl.

This thread is to honor vets. Who do fight for peace and freedoms, the very ones u enjoy.

Shameful!

I was going to say the same thing, Scott.

Hey, Chief, some people do respect your service. My Gramps was a Navy man.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
Thanks bluey! Now that I'm robotized, we need to make a plan pronto. I lost your number again and mines different so I'll pm you.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 11, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
It's one thing to say that you support the troops.

It's another to actually do it.


While many believe this is the day to honor and salute those who served, it is on every other day of the year that the appreciation holds up. A large portion of businesses have discriminatory approaches towards hiring veterans who they fear might exhibit PTSD in the work place. Our warriors come home crippled, physically and emotionally, while we wave a flag once a year and walk past them begging for change the other 364.

Veterans Day should tell us to go above and beyond in helping our Veterans transition back to a life they left to serve our country. If the call came, they would answer. Regardless of your feelings in how the brass handle the hammer they are there for us when we need them - which is pretty damn often.

So, yes, God Bless The Troops, etc. Sometimes even heroes need a hand.



Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the hell outta ya.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Nov 11, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
Enlisted during Viet Nam but the Paris Peace Accord was signed while I was in Basic and the worst I had to do was go to Kansas.

I love this line, Gilroy!
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Nov 11, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
Wow! Great post Greg Davis.

Remembering all the past and present military as well as their loved ones, families and friends this moment, this day. Prayers and love! lynne




ps, Greg, missed you at the Billy S. Memorial in JTree. Hope all is good with yo.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 11, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
One for Bluering.
Mel &#40;the 'mayor' of Planads&#41; is a vet.  He loves the blues.
Mel (the 'mayor' of Planads) is a vet. He loves the blues.
Credit: mouse from merced

One for the Chief.
Shipmates through thick and thin.
Shipmates through thick and thin.
Credit: mouse from merced

One for all the ST vets.
Thank you, vets, even if I'm too young to understand.
Thank you, vets, even if I'm too young to understand.
Credit: mouse from merced
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 03:59am PT
You're very welcome. I was happy to do it. 31 years, both in and out of service doing my best for all of you, even those who would question my motivation...Baba. I couldn't care less, you were my people, my responsibility, and it was my privilege to serve you.
nopantsben

climber
Nov 12, 2013 - 11:56am PT
i don't understand this whole idea.

after that, the veterans have my compassion as victims of our government, not because they are truly fighting for freedom, because they aren't.
that make a whole lot more sense than all the thanks. thanks for what exactly?

not that i have anything against vets per se - it's just that i don't get how you could think of that job as something particularly positive like say being a doctor or a nurse or a firefighter or whatever.

and the american effort to end ww2 is very honorable and deserves respect, as do those that made it happen.

i don't see how that line of thought would work for vietnam or irak though.
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Ben,

I completely agree with your sentiments. I have a hard time giving a blanket thank you to all veterans. Any time period perhaps after Korea is kind of the cut-off point for me. Most of the wars after Korea were pretty hard to justify, IMHO.

Did I ever show you my scar from Vietnam, on that trip into the Wind Rivers?

Ha, Ha.

Steve

nopantsben

climber
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
no - with all the mosquitos exposing skin wasn't possible, remember? ;)
but you told the story. what a rough time that must have been...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
I disagree Ben. There aren't any good wars. Some are more righteous causes than others to be sure.

Some folks feel the need to serve in the military, regardless of the era, or the leadership. I have a long history of military service in my family. I felt the need to honor my family, even though I was a long haired hippy freak, and I joined under Reagan!!(The duality of man.)
Many modern wars have been less than glorious in their premise and conduct. That doesn't mean I withhold my thanks to those veterans.
As I said, there are no "good" wars....

Credit: survival
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
I think criticizing The American Machine that created Veterans Day, on veterans day is akin to criticizing someone for praying while they are praying.

Sorry, it seems boorish to me. I don't mean to offend the critics of the ideals involved, seriously. But can't yall take that up in some other thread?

For some of us, the political part, the machine part, the American Religion paert - all pale before the individual sacrifice and commitment of our fellow citizen / soldiers.

I would not want any of my vet acquaintances and friends to ever think I would lump them in with the machine to which we all must answer.

Salute, vets.

DMT
nopantsben

climber
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Some folks feel the need to serve in the military, regardless of the era, or the leadership

i realise that, but don't understand why that is the case. that's what i meant.
what's positive about going to war or being part of the army just for it's own sake?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
i realise that, but don't understand why that is the case.

Too many reasons for different people to list them all.

For me? I wanted my WWII Dad and Uncles to be proud of me.
I needed a job, some direction, some training, some benefits.
I wanted to do something exciting besides climbing. I wanted to travel.

Pretty standard stuff for a lot of young folks who can't afford college...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:37pm PT

i realise that, but don't understand why that is the case. that's what i meant.

That there is pretty indicative why you don't get it yet feel inclined to
make such a condescending statement.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Nov 16, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
Survival is correct here. You can't choose which vets are worthy of praise based on the wars they SERVED in! They served their country and went to war under orders from their commanders. Not because of political ideology.

ALL vets deserve respect and our thanks.

Here's a prez honoring his men; http://patdollard.com/2013/11/love-this-how-to-thank-a-soldier-by-george-w-bush/

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 16, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
I am a veteran and because of my time in service i question the right of politicians, who rarely have loved ones serving, to so blithely send young Americans into harms way.
Messages 1 - 129 of total 129 in this topic
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews