Ashira and 14c- Thoughts?

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Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:09pm PT
Again, I'd love to see some of these kids get on a Henny, Rollins, Carson, Clevenger, Higgins etal clean face runout test piece where strength (Pulling?) and gymnastic abilities mean absolutely nothing.

I bet your dad can beat up her dad too.
The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Adam Ondra started out on hard Czech Rock Classics prior to even seeing a gym.

I bet your dad can beat up her dad too.

Negative!

My Pop's ashes are scattered behind my home up in Piute Canyon below White Mtn.
Alpamayo

Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
Again, I'd love to see some of these kids get on a Henny, Rollins, Carson, Clevenger, Higgins etal clean face runout test piece where strength (Pulling?) and gymnastic abilities mean absolutely nothing.

IMO it is much easier to gain the mental game to climb runnout faces a couple of number grades below your max than it is to get your max up into the 14's. I have no doubt that you could teach a young 5.14 sport climber to climb Bacher-Yerian faster than you could teach the average 5.11 trad climber to climb 5.14

Reality is, however, that most young 5.14 sport climbers have no interest whatsoever in runnout trad climbs two numbers below their max.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:19pm PT
I think the grading system is OK. Think about it--surely Ashima can tell the difference between grades. Put her on a .12a, a .12c, a .13b, she can probably tell you which one is harder than the next.

I've thought about it and disagree, at least in some cases (although in most cases, you're probably right).
I imagine that Ashima could get shut down on certain boulder problems that are V2 or V3, if they are entirely dependent on reach and have no intermediate holds (obviously she's not going to need much of an intermediate hold, but she's going to need something). When you hear about the super hard problems that short, light children (or very small adults) do, you don't necessarily hear about the "relatively easy" (for an average size man) things that they can't do.

When you reduce the difficulty of a climb/boulder problem to a single number, that number's not going to be the same for climbers of vastly different dimensions. This is most obvious for things like pure cracks and very reach dependent moves.

That's not to say that she isn't a "better" or "stronger" climber than 99.whatever % of climbers--I'm sure she is.
Silver

Ice climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:22pm PT
Man I hope she doesn't read some of the sh#t people are writing here.

Seems with the wealth of knowledge and experience here she should be getting some great advice on how to become a well rounded climber enjoying all aspects of the sport, and in all venues if desired.

I hope this little gal gets a good mentor to teach here the ropes of trad because if you can climb 14c and you cant get up classics like Astroman or the Rostrum that to me would be sad.

I would also inject anyone who has been around and was already a climber when the climbing gym came to be knew this day would come, and perhaps not as soon but once I started seeing the kids in the gym I knew that all the hard routes fully grown men had done that were on the hardest scale would fall to these kids in their teen years versus their late twenties or thirties... That would a grade of 13a being the top of the grade then.

It will not be long before some young girl or boy sends a route a guy like Sharma has worked his whole life to do. I personally hope it happens for the simple reason its called Progression. Amen because stagnation is well not interesting to us its seems in the climbing world.

The Chief

climber
Climber from the Land Mongols under the Whites
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
I hope this little gal gets a good mentor to teach here the ropes of trad because if you can climb 14c and you cant get up classics like Astroman or the Rostrum that to me would be sad.

Or "Hall of Mirrors" maybe.....
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:38pm PT
Yeah I'd be sad too if I were 11 years old and couldn't get up Astro-man or Hall of Mirrors. Especially when 10 year old just did the rostrum as his first multi-pitch First crack climb.. No falls

ROTFLMAO
Silver

Ice climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
Im not saying she has to do it now at any age in particular but i am saying if your as young as she is and you climb that hard on sport routes it would be sad if in your life you were not able to climb such classics because you were not mentored in a particular style of climbing.

Chief the list is long you get that.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 30, 2012 - 12:53pm PT
Well I will agree that I get more of a kick out of seeing that Kid who did the Rostrum at age 10 than I get out of hearing another 5.14. Or the girl who climbed RNWF with her dad. (interesting same mentor involved)

Probably because 5.14 is something I can't relate to really. That's my own failure of vision not theirs for sure.

It's all good and I hope as these kids go on they get to enjoy all that climbing can be with such incredible talent and early dedication.

Mind blowing possibilities it seems.
BruceAnderson

Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
What gets lost in all this a bit is just how hard thses routes really are. Like always the best climbers make the impossible look easy. To me grades get exponetially harder. It's not linear. I mean there's such a huge difference between say 13a and 13c. Even more so between a 14a and a 14d for crying out loud.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
SLO, Ca
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:01pm PT
Good for her.

Kids that crush threads always draw the "she can't climb cracks" or "let's see her on some 70s runout slab" comments. What BS. Crack climbing is just climbing not some mysterious art--put your hand or finger in the crack and pull. 99% of the climbing population does not climb dangerous run out climbs so I've never understood why they are always upheld as some general measurement of ability.

My only concern if it was my kid would be muscle and tendon development.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
I recall watching Chris Lindner lead Robbins Crack (10a) for his first time. He was 4 y.o. (87-88?). And soloed it shortly therafter. And a month or two after that, he sends Starving In Stereo (12a/crack). Lead his first 13a sport at the age of 9! And his first 14c at 16. So, he continued on to climb harder and harder stuff. And is still stoked about climbing.

"Climbing, in my opinion, is the coolest sport in the world, and I enjoy helping people realize that." Chris Lindner (2010)

So, it seems as though CL was & is having a lot of fun climbing. That is what it is all about, having fun. Hopefully, so is Ashira. And, imo, that is all we should be concerned about (in regards to her) that she is having a lot of fun, ... eh? So, what's with all the drama?
Baggins

Boulder climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:10pm PT
First of - amazing stuff. These japanese (little) women seem to be leading the world, and I am thrilled at the prospect of seeing the sport develop with their efforts.

I dont understand this comment:

Fabulous accomplishments, but the ratings were developed for adult males with adult male strength-to-weight ratios, not ratios which likely run quite significantly higher than that.

Ummm. There's nothing wrong with the ratings. Turns out, being small and thin is the most ideal body shape for climbing very very hard routes and boulders.

Ratings are body shape (hand size) dependent for crack climbs of course, but thats not relevant to Ashimas climbing (yet).

I understand that old school tradsters cant understand what 5.14+ means. I certainly cant. But its fair to say that most of these cutting edge sport climbers could probably make el cap look like a walk in the park, if sufficiently motivated.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
Jesus Christ this thread is full of sh*t bags.

There's a girl. She's 11. She's strong.

Not suffering through 10a doesn't make her cool?

No, it makes you an out of shape, no technique slob. (unless it's OW, then suffering may occur.)

I don't get why so many sh*theads on this forum bag on people who climb 5.15 / vHARD. "No skill" "no suffering" "plug gear" for f*cks sake. Everyone has different interests.

Bouldering.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
Joseph said:

Fabulous accomplishments, but the ratings were developed for adult males with adult male strength-to-weight ratios, not ratios which likely run quite significantly higher than that.


Response:

This is a typical response...blah blah blah she has an advantage blah blah blah...

I could point out that her technique is FLAWLESS compared to 99% of adults, including YOU(Drew has spent a fair bit of time climbing with her and is no slouch in that department. I could also point out that she's about 4'-8" tall. I might also point out that she's been training HARD for more than half a decade with high level coaches...

I think that "we" the older generation are being faced with a revolution in the sport and that is that.

moosedrool

Trad climber
Fremont
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
Although very impressive, achievements in a gym or on bolted sport routs are just circus tricks. Alpine/trad climbing is something very, very different. Just because Ashima is using rock for her gymnastics, doesn't mean she is a climber, yet. IMHO.
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
Riley said:

"Yea, I wanna see her climb supercrack & see how that goes.

Many don't even bother with 5.10 & 5.11 anymore it seems. 5.12 is the new 5.8 for kids these days. Virtually none of these little phenoms seem to give two turds about pluggin gear, baggin peaks, or suffering either, WTF?!

Difficulty &/or grades is the endgame for the next generation it would appear.

Amazing stuff they are doing, I'd love to see these little kids crushing in person.


edit: good point below Jim, the kids are unstoppable"


Uhhh you might not be that informed as to what these kids can do with cracks and they can plug gear as well as or better than 90% of adults.

Just sayin'...
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
Alpine/trad climbing is something very, very different.


What does that have to do with anything? Seriously. Who is saying otherwise?


You bro's need to get your Test levels checked. Little girl has you all clawing at myths like an old Sensei teaching his dragon nonsense bullshit to wide eyed kids...
SeaClimb

climber
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
The fact that a little girl did something amazing and people are grasping at negativities speaks volumes about the inner monologue that must play inside your head.


opinions are like as#@&%es, everyone has them and they all stink.


Ashima is a bad mother f*#ker. You don't have to like sport climbing, you don't have to like the mentality that high-end athletics brings, hell you don't even have to like the f*#king Red.

Whether it is rock climbing or tennis, this little girl did something amazing. Just appreciate it. Doesn't cost you anything to be decent.

^^^This


SPOT ON!!!!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 30, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
Ummm. There's nothing wrong with the ratings. Turns out, being small and thin is the most ideal body shape for climbing very very hard routes and boulders.

Ratings are body shape (hand size) dependent for crack climbs of course, but thats not relevant to Ashimas climbing (yet).

I'll try one more time.

I am sure there are boulder problems and routes where a say, 6' guy has to do a good lunge to get from hold to hold, and it's about V2 or V3 for that guy. If the little girl can't do that route, can the 6' guy say it's V12 or whatever, since it shut down a V-double-digit climber?
(To make this concrete, consider the route "Take That, Katie Brown," although that's apparently a very hard route by any standard. No crack involved.)

It's not just cracks that are size dependent. And I agree (and it's obvious) that "being small and thin is the most ideal body shape for climbing very very hard routes," but only most of the time.
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