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Trad climber
Here and There
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:08am PT
CIA, bra. But the SEALs were prolly DoD contractors with all the tools of the trade.

Blue, I'm not a bra. If they were actual SEALS they would be part of the actual military, they wouldn't have been "contractors" of any sort. There is a difference.

The military has gone further and further out contracting labor for all sorts of its needs from kitchen, laundry, janitorial, and even security details. If the security forces involved in Benghazi weren't actual military but were in reality contracted security forces it changes everything.

This is just speculation based on an above post by QITNL. Asked for a link to back it up but haven't received a response yet. I'm doing alright regardless.

Check out the book Halliburton's Army for an enlightening journey on just how far the military has gone in outsourcing its operations.
Jebus H Bomz

Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:19am PT

I never said no gov't. Just a lot less. Read a Constitution.

I have. Idiot.

Dec 1, 2012 - 04:21am PT
slayton, i provided the verification you requested, look above, it's huge. explicitly stated, i don't speculate. this was reported since day one.

"In 2005, he exited the SEALS" - "friend and former Navy SEAL" etc. i didn't feel right chopping up the dude's obit to prove a point in some dumb argument, dig?

you're right - it's a huge difference.

maybe we could could post remembrances of everyone who was killed in Bengazi. maybe we could stop bickering for a moment and honor them. including the good guys who were kinda brown. that could take some work. we'll never hear about them.

here's the obit for our ambassador in the Daily Cal. it pays to learn arabic, smart guy. perhaps your average democrat, possibly above-average. maybe a communist. i don't know, i don't care. your call:

Christopher Stevens, ambassador to Libya and UC Berkeley alumnus, dies at 52

Long before J. Christopher Stevens was the U.S. ambassador to Libya, he was hitting the books at Moffitt Library as a UC Berkeley student studying for his Arabic finals.

Stevens, who was killed at the age of 52 after the American consulate in Benghazi was attacked Tuesday night, is remembered by his peers and mentors as a one-of-a-kind student, a dear friend and a 1982 UC Berkeley alumnus.

“He was universally very well-liked, and the work that he ultimately ended up migrating to suited him,” said Steve Tovani. “Being a diplomat, being a peacemaker, even putting himself in the line of danger is not surprising to me.”

Tovani was one pledge class ahead of Stevens at the UC Berkeley campus chapter of Alpha Tau Omega. He met Stevens at the chapter’s house during a rush event in Stevens’ freshman year.

“The day he walked into the house I just knew he was the guy that we wanted in the fraternity,” Tovani said. “He had this very easygoing, kind, gentle manner, and it exuded this kind of friendliness.”

Like many Cal students, Stevens frequented longstanding Berkeley institutions like Top Dog and Kip’s Bar, according to Tovani. He enjoyed playing intramural football, attending home games at Memorial Stadium and going to parties to “hoist a beer once in a while,” Tovani said.

As a history major, Stevens was particularly fascinated with the Middle East and could be heard practicing Arabic at the ATO house. Stevens also expressed a fondness for discussion while conversing with the diverse array of characters on Sproul Plaza, according to Tovani.

“Leaving high school he was all of a sudden immersed in a much bigger pond,” Tovani said. “A lot of his interests, goals, and dreams were sparked by his experiences at Cal.”

After Stevens graduated from UC Berkeley, he spent two years with the Peace Corps teaching English in Morocco, according to a statement from Peace Corps Director Aaron Williams. The experience allowed him to nourish a passion for foreign service before working toward a law degree at UC Hastings College of the Law.

UC Hastings professor David Levine taught one of Stevens’ first classes at law school and was impressed by his dedication and perseverance.

“Some people catch your eye, and Chris was one of those people,” Levine said. “He knew what he was doing, he was interested in foreign service and he had a deep interest in the Middle East.”

After Stevens began his career with the Foreign Service in 1991, he worked in Israel, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Libya, according to his U.S. Department of State biography.

“We were especially thrilled when Ambassador Stevens was named to his post, since he had a longstanding reputation as someone who had local knowledge of Libya, and understood — indeed cared deeply for — Libyan culture, politics and aspirations,” said Emily Gottreich, UC Berkeley professor and president of the American Institute for Maghrib Studies.

Levine said that while he is saddened by the sudden death of Stevens, he admires his commitment to serving the public.

“He earned a public education from Berkeley and Hastings before immediately applying his knowledge to public service,” Levine said. “This is what the University of California is all about.”

full disclosure: i know all about underage drinking on the ucb campus, liberating nitrous oxide from frat boys, chased with a top dog or two. don't tell my mom, but that's a balanced meal.

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
Democracy is for idiots.

Kinda says it all.

You've only had about 1.3 million countrymen die for it.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
Woods , Doherty , Smith , and Stevens.

They got fed to the muslim brotherhood. But they damm well took out some of them before they went. Remember who killed these brave Americans.. This is just one more act against us by this thing known as the muslim brotherhood. This is the same thing that created those four wanna-be terrorists in CALI.

LOOK at each and every country that is under the influence of this "brotherhood".. Yemen, Syria, Burma, Iran, Gaza, Egypt and Libya.

In the last few years we have seen many govts removed from power to have the brotherhood step in, and when this happened, their neighborhoods went straight to hell. MUCH WORSE than they were under previous dictators actually.

We can NOT expect third world countries involved in a jihad that has been going on since recorded time, to act like or be a "democracy". They have NO CLUE as to what that means. If they dont like the elected officials, they simply murder them, and that IS whats going on now.

But for all of this,, that fuggin brotherhood sets squarely in the middle
of all the violence now common there. The more we hear of it, the more violence , genocides, and murders we hear of.

Now you might say its the UNs fault,, and youd be partially correct. Lets see,,, the UN went against the US wishes and has given some defacto- state status to Palestine,, while N Korea has thumbed its nose at them and is testing long range rockets AGAINST UN declarations. Just like Iran is.
So one can only assume that the UN is all for terrorist states, wont do anything against them developing weapons of mass destruction and could care less what the US concerns and opinions are. And yet we are now re-considering the UN TREATY...Wha????


Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
We can NOT expect third world countries involved in a jihad that has been going on since recorded time, to act like or be a "democracy". They have NO CLUE as to what that means.

Well, the neocons were absolutely positive that by kicking over the right domino that the Mideast would immediately be awash in convivial, white, suburban democracies - how could it possibly be otherwise?

And now you don't like the results? Dude, deal with it, it's what you voted for and likely just voted to do another round of. Romney's military and foreign policy advisers? Neocons, many from the W clan. Talk about dodging a bullet.

And the UN? The UN actually just proved it's capable of doing all we hoped it could and in this case put a dent in the total charade that has been the 'peace process" AKA the Israeli cover for continuously annexing palestinian lands. Now Israel is pretty much forced to actully stand up and state the now painfully obvious - they have no interest whatsoever in 'peace' and every interest in consolidating and expanding their acquisition of palestinian lands. So in this case, bravo for the UN calling bullshit on what's really been going on.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:13pm PT
Bravo for creating legitimacy to yet another terrorist state ? Bravo for them ignoring N Korea, Iran, et al?

Even Obama went from " we must put distance between the US and Israel", to fully supporting Israel..

I DO NOT support any terrorist state. Just like i dont condone GANG bangers.. We have KNOWN terrorist states that just continue on in the face of the world, much like the local gangs do here- seemingly protected by some govt umbrella. And the bigger these get, the worse the problems are. 10 years ago we never had regular helo flights of hgwy 50 and the river corridor. NOW we have them daily. If your climbing in the area, you may very well have a blackhawk- unmarked, give you a few passes.

Weve just taken it in the bum again in Lybia, and nothing of serious consequence will happen, other that the US spending a few billion to track down one or two insignificant members of al-kay-duh. On the day of their capture or killing,, new ones WILL take their place in the established pecking order. We have been told the "war" has been "won" in Afghanistan, yet those four NICE respectable citizens of CALI were heading there to kill American soldiers.

CRAP on the brotherhood,, gaza , iran and any other TERRORIST STATES. Crap on giving them aid and monies only to be used against our people. We get NOTHING for this effort other than thrown into the middle of a gawd damm JIHAD. We can let this go on for decades more, and the total of dead will be staggering. Or we can switch gears.

edit: And yes there are many innocent people every where. I know some in Iran, and they HATE the ISLAMIST regime there.. They want NOTHING to do with radical or strict islam. So for many of those countries, their peoples have no choice and no means of fighting back. They have laws much like the NDAA 2013 bill but there its enforced with a great zest. talk against the govt there, and you will just go poof, and be gone.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:21pm PT
So one can only assume that the UN is all for terrorist states, wont do anything against them developing weapons of mass destruction and could care less what the US concerns and opinions are.

Yeah, they didn't do anything about Israel building nukes either

But the opposite is quite true, The US has been on the short end of a lot of votes of something is 139-9 like the Palestinian vote. When we do it in the Security council, our veto lets us fly in the face of the vast majority of world opinion

Maybe we should ask ourselves if maybe they know something we don't get to hear in the US

Yeah, over the last 12 years the Palestinians have killed over 100 Israeli kids and Israel has killed over 1000 Palestinian kids (and they are the ones with Precision weapons) but there's only one terrorist state there right?


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:34pm PT
Well Karl do you support HAMAS or Israel? I havent heard of Israelis flying planes into buildings,, or wearing explosive undies, shoes or the like.

And be aware that supporting hamas is supporting that brotherhood that wants nothing but to see western civilization go bye bye.
There is NOTHING we can do NOW to erase previous history and bungles. Those times have long since flown by.

Obama is trying to "work" with the brotherhood but so far the results have been 180 degrees from the desired. More proof that they are rampant liars dedicated to destruction of you and me and all those that enjoy a more free lifestyle.

Those four Cali guys, of whom were reported to be NICE, and never had any indications of their violence within - were headed to Afghanistan to be part of that brotherhood and kill US soldiers. More proof of their dedication to be loud LIARS.


The Granite State.
Dec 1, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
I don't really give f*#k about you, bro.

That sums it up.

What you lack in baseline intelligence, you more than redeem with your ability to emphasize it in your writing.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
The best way to support Israel is to support the Palestinian efforts to restore statehood to Palestine. That's also the best way to support our troops. Oh, and the Palestinians aren't a terrorist state any more than we were during the revolutionary war; they are responding to the main terrorism happening which is Israeli settlements carving up the last of the west bank.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
but Palestine is supplied by Iran. Its Iranian missiles that have been flying into Israel.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
So what? You expect them to do nothing while the Israelis steal the last of their land? How would you respond? You'd get weapons wherever you could find them.
Jebus H Bomz

Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
Yes, and we supply Israel? I'm sure all the dead really care who supplied the munitions. And, apparently, their munitions aren't as good as ours anyway with those 10:1 odds on the children 'n all.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:26pm PT
As ive said,, the supporting of Israel has gone on for quite some time.
And the WORLD hasnt been afflicted by Israelis using IEDs or flying planes into buildings. The brotherhood and radical Islam on the other hand has more than proven to be intolerable on any level. The fact that are heavily influencing scenes in Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Gaza and others is also clear evidence of something that is quite out of control. How can we be posturing against Iran and be for Hamas anyhow..?

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
Go back a page and look at that map. It's the whole story.

We supply Israel with both weapons and the funds to make and buy additional weaponry. No one in the region can compete head to head any more than we could go head to head with the English in the revolutionary war.

When decade after decade we support Israel to the absolute exclusion of all others in the region, particularly the scattered palestinian diaspora, you'd have to be an idiot to think sooner or later there wouldn't be slap up the side of the head to get our attention. That was 9/11 and they used what weapons were at their disposal.

As far as IEDs go, we just invested a decade and 4-6 trillion dollars perfecting them and advancing asymmetric warfare to another level of sophistication compared to the Afghan war. We did that. We've done all of it and our one-sided support of Israel is why we have so many dead in other parts of the Mideast.

Either make Israel the 51st state or bring balance to the region by forcing Israel to make peace - either one will do. Failure to do one or the other will simply translate into more dead American troops in the Mideast.

One would think at some point you'd actually 'get it' - but apparently not...
Jebus H Bomz

Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 03:56pm PT
healyje makes a lot of sense to my mind. But who knows, maybe the tactics of the crusades will pay off despite the proof of centuries saying the opposite.

It is funny (in a bad way) that our country did the most to help create the networks now working against us.

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
Congratulations to Palestine for their new status with the UN.
The hardcore Zionist of Israel have never wanted peace with the indigenous peoples.
If they thought they could get away with it they would be brutal to the point of total genocide.
As it is they feign interest in the peace process while slowly strangling the life out of Palestine.
Death by slow starvation.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
Like i said,, i do agree on the ill dealings of the past in regards to the ME, but NOTHING will change that now..

When it comes to the muslim brotherhood- obviously a radical islamist faction, should any sensible person be for the spread of that at THIS point?

Personally I wanted a hands off approach to them all, UNLESS any acts are perpetrated against US citzens or military. That included ANY and all aid and monies we borrow to give them. Want to reduce the deficit? That would be a HUGE gain on that. But that isnt going to happen by any politician in the USA. Obama has even pre budgeted for attacking Iran.
So if we are going to be doing it anyhow, let us ACT like a super power and deal with it ASAP with the utmost efficiency in mind.

Weve seen the results of diplomacy in dealing with the brotherhood quite clearly now. Youd have better luck charming a two headed rattle snake.

My friend in Iran says the only hope they have is that the USA kills their regime. But he isnt holding his breath because he knows about the monies flowing between us and them. Arming anyone any futher over in the ME is folly at this point. We saw how this comes around to bite you in the arse with fast and furious. Why engage that on a GRAND scale is beyond me.
But none of this matters- politicians do NOT CARE what I you or the other guy thinks. Ive seen this with Dean Heller, who has now been "indoctrinated" and is as useless a tits on a boar hawg now for actual Nevadans. So you can THINK that Palestine trying to reclaim lands is a good idea, but you back those who seek to do you harm as well. And the UN has ALWAYS been more harm to us than good. All we do is give them muscle when it benefits the brotherhood. That ISNT helping.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 1, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
uhhhmmm it ISNT my thoughts nor MY actions that are speaking for the USA,, it is Obamas. Obama DOESNT SUPPORT PALESTINE.

Obama has pre budgeted for attacking Iran....Not bush nor Kennedy, nor Jackson...

Any one else wondering how many terrorists are in training in Cali? Or any where for that matter. How but the guy in Manhattan wanting to blow it up? Hate to tell you,, but the had wringing over history ISNT going to do squat to those with such plans.

If you wont deal WITH the ME, then you either LEAVE all or none. If you dare support one side the other instantly becomes a sworn enemy. Weve seen that plainly. But our leaders , including Obama have seen that we are stuck in the shyt so to speak.

And since we are in that shyt,, backing the muslim brotherhood any where is a disaster in the waiting. Proof is happening now.
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