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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 20, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
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Hey Rotting Johnny, I getcha, but I am not trying to be negative.
Ken M, if you and I can come up with some instant cure for hiccups, we could make it rich. No it is not food or booze, maybe nerves. But I have been hicupping for over an hour now. Tried everything but standing on my head.
I blame Lance. Ha ha. ;-)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 20, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
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Locker...It's a good thing Lance has just one nut or Ken would be there much longer...RJ
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
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Jan 20, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
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Locker, show some RESPECT for the good doctor.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 20, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
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Locker...That's called an echelon not a centipede...
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jan 20, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
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It's all because Lance's step-dad whooped him with a paddle, and his real daddy was what Lance called a "sperm donor". Loves to suffer to protect his real mother from his tyrannical step-papa. Martyr complex.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 20, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
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Come on folks, let's be 'decent'.
This thread is not about Ken or me or any of us.
But about somebody who cheated and yes others in his line of work did too.
But Armstrong was vindictive.
He deliberately went out to slander, libel and sue people.. too ruin their lives, so he could gain financially and try and keep his reputation intact.
If his charity helped cancer victims, okay fair play.
But Armstrong has proven to be a chancer, and as some articles suggest, he will come out looking much better. But what about the people he wrongfully hurt? Do any of you Armstrong supporters give a toss about them?
Cheating is one thing. Deliberately ruining people's lives is another.
If some of you cannot understand that, I pity you.
And Ken M I still have the bloody hiccups. They subsided for a while but are back. If we can come up with an instant cure, we could become richer than Lance.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jan 20, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
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Pat,
drink water upside down. drink a whole pint of water. Works for me every time.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 20, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
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What I STILL don't get is how so many people fell for it...
Locker, not people, but sheeple of the media and the cheats of the world.
I think that at this point, the minds of Armstrong supporters on this forum and elsewhere, will not be changed. His Oprah performance was well orchestrated and polished.
He has come out smelling like roses, and did Oprah help facilitate that? Hmmm...
She did do a weak job on interviewing him, and then she made excuses later. Deals were cut for Oprah to have the "exclusive". Money talks and his bullshit walks. And what respect I had for Oprah, has also walked.
In the meantime, I still have bloody hiccups.
Ken M and other medical Taco Standers, let's come up with an instant hiccup cure/solution. We could all be wealthier than Lance and Oprah put together.
EDIT
Mark, if your solution works, you just took a fortune off of me.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 20, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
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Mark, the pint of (cold Irish water) was easy, but the upside down bit, well you are more agile than I am, but yes I haven't hiccuped for, oops. I'll try it again.
Maybe if it took some drugs/steroids, the hiccups would stop.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Jan 20, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
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Is there anybody who posts on or reads this thread that could ride the TDF if I bought him/her some EPO?
I would like to try some EPO since I don't compete on the world stage and see waht it actually does for ya.
Could it be a substitute for nitric oxide, would your boner lost longer?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jan 20, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
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Pat,
Lay over the end of a couch so your whole upper body is hanging down you could even rest your head on the floor. You'll have to sip the water out of the glass from your top lip. you're almost pouring it into your mouth. You diaphragm has to such the water up rather than simply let it flow down.
Keep at it.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 01:54am PT
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Ken M, if you and I can come up with some instant cure for hiccups, we could make it rich. No it is not food or booze, maybe nerves. But I have been hicupping for over an hour now. Tried everything but standing on my head.
I've had excellent results with IV Chlorpromazine. Don't think I've seen it fail.
Here is a site with a lot of information:
http://www.fpnotebook.com/gi/sx/Hcp.htm
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 02:14am PT
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Ken M, the point I was trying to get across was that Armstrong hurt people for his own gain.
I totally agree. I also agree that almost all people do that same thing, to one degree or another. Very, very few people think in terms of step no. 8
Lance Armstrong hurt people. Period. He may have also helped people. When does the bad negate the good?
Judging people this way is a tough business. One in which we probably should not spend a lot of time involved in, when most of us have a messy porch, ourselves.
You repeatedly cite me as a supporter of LA. I am not. I AM a supporter of due process, of fairness, and equality, and of (small d) democratic values.
We don't get to vote him off the island, even if we shout.
Hey I was on the radio in Ireland a couple of times, recently. Good, informed interviewers.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 02:22am PT
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Cancer sucks.
You should know that, and yet, and perhaps I am wrong, you want to use it as a barb against me because it seems we disagree about Armstrong.
Patrick, what you seem to have your head up your @ss about, is attacking people with, or surviving cancer...on the basis of their cancer.
That's what you did with LA, and I think it is repugnant. If you think not, then just have your Jennie get onto the firing line, and lets have people publically attack her, on the basis of a disease almost certainly brought on by her, herself. I would think pretty ill of that, as well.
It is totally fair to attack LA on the basis of his cheating in bike races.
It is something else to attack him on the basis of his efforts for cancer.
You are going through a rough patch of life. But there are limits as to the freedom that gives you to attack any other person you want, for any other reason, acting like your sh*t doesn't stink.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 02:25am PT
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Make light about cancer in my family, if you will, but I am glad I am not one of your patients.
Lance Armstrong, whatever you may think, has ruined people's reputations and finances. If you think so highly of him, offer to be his doctor, I think it would suit.
This is an example of your B*llsh*t.
YOU brought your family history up. You post it, you live with the comments, buddy.
You want to attack my skills and credentials, fine, but don't be surprised when you get kicked in the teeth.
Your posts on LA, which simply repeat the same thing, over and over and over and over.....are just simply tiring and boring.
But when you digress into cancer, and medical competence, you just sound stupid.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 02:36am PT
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Although off-topic, someone challenges me on the issue of positive thinking in cancer, so here are some citations:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23178354
Outcomes of guided imagery in patients receiving radiation therapy for breast cancer.
"Overall, 86% of participants described the guided imagery sessions as helpful, and 100% said they would recommend the intervention to others. The results of this study illustrate the positive impact of guided imagery as measured through subjective and objective parameters. Improving the overall care for patients with breast cancer supports the value of incorporating practices of integrative oncology into standard practice."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22750906
Effect of art making on cancer-related symptoms of blood and marrow transplantation recipients.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22688373
A positive psychological intervention using virtual reality for patients with advanced cancer in a hospital setting
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22803255
Theoretical rationale for music selection in oncology intervention research: an integrative review.
"Music-based interventions have helped patients with cancer improve their quality of life, decrease treatment related distress, and manage pain."
There are hundreds of similar papers on such subjects. It is why virtually all cancer centers now include stress reduction therapy, and positive-imagry treatment.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 21, 2013 - 10:56am PT
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Ken M
An answer from someone:
What your remark to Patrick implied, was that "negative thinking" causes cancer. What the research you have linked indicates, is that "positive thinking" has a positive effect under the treatment of cancer that has already developed. That's two different situations. Your examples does not prove your point that "negative thinking" causes cancer. Your remark about "negative thinking" as a cause of cancer is not based on sound scientific thinking.
Thanks anyway - the articles have a value on their own right - OT!
Marlow
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 21, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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Marlow, I post what I have at hand.
As I say, there is a huge amount more. If you are interested, you may want to search on your own. Any one of my links takes you to a search engine on the medical literature.
I'll just say that the kind of research that you advocate, is essentially impossible to do.
What it would require is to have two groups WITHOUT cancer, one that participates in positive imagry, and one that does not. And neither they, nor the researchers can know who is in which group....so you have to have some sort of sham positive imagry....and I don't know of anything you could use.
And then you'd have to wait, for years and years and years, to see if there is a difference in CA incidence.
This kind of study would need to involve a VERY large number of research subjects, with massive interviewing to detect what they are actually doing, and it would have to go on for a long time...perhaps 10-20 years.
Such an undertaking would cost probably hundreds of millions of dollars.
Who would fund such a thing?
So we have an alternative: What does positive imagry do for people WITH cancer, compared to people who do not have cancer?
I agree it is not the same, but it does give insights into the process.
With such overwhelming evidence that positivity enhances outcomes in the vast majority of cancer victims, I would be rather crazy to discount positivity in the incidence of cancer.
Another line of thinking goes with the PROVED affect that stress has on the immune response...which is a negative effect. Since we seem to think that the emergence of cancer is a disfunction of the immune system, there seems to be a rather proven link here. One paper of thousands:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9251165
Besides, what if I'm wrong? People living their lives with positive thoughts is such a terrible outcome? Happiness is to be avoided?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 22, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
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Hey Ken M, let's not try and flame each other okay,
You have your views, and indeed credentials. If I have insulted you, I apologize.
But I have my views, are they any more worthier or less worthier than yours?
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