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brook_alongi
Big Wall climber
Everett, WA
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May 10, 2006 - 10:47am PT
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My wife and I have two boys. They're great and the youngest loves to climb with me. My wife is also a climber.
I still get my fill of hard climbing and long trips each year. What your definition of long trips is depends on who you are.
How do I deal with raising fine young men and still try to stay at the top of my game, whilst keeping life interesting and being a role model for them?
1. For us, it's what our family does. We talk about routes at the dinner table. Read guide books together instead of watching TV.
2. I try to lead by example for them by working on a mountain rescue team. The youngest really looks up to that. Shows him that you don't have to just climb for yourself and it's ok to give a little back.
3. I speak regularly at their schools about climbing and goal setting. Kids love assemblies, especially if Dad is up there talking.
4. If it's a cragging day, the boys come, unless we need to focus on a project. They are low maintenance, which is helpful. Some people bring their dogs, we bring the kids.
5. Get a haul bag and line it with foam. Put your kid in it and haul him up a wall! Just kidding, I haven't done that....YET! Ha.
6. All of these little things add up and makes them want to see and hear about you doing great things. When I seem grumpy, quite often my youngest will say something like, "Dad, maybe you should do another burn on the Captain." That's really nice to hear. I can honestly say, however, that the long trips out of country can wear on the family. As a result, my sat phone bill is usually high. But it's money well spent.
Bottom line. It's perfectly ok to go climbing alot and climb hard stuff, as long as you find the balance. I have found mine, but I'm lucky.
Good luck and congradulations on the new baby!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 10, 2006 - 11:29am PT
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I have read all of this, but the only insight I have to add is from my Dad who always questioned why I would put myself at needless risk inherent in climbing.
He was correct, and more so after I became a Dad myself. I have no answer for his question. Nowadays he just shakes his head and wonders what a 50 year old is doing climbing around on cliffs, he's 77... I did the son thing, blamed it on him...
We roll the dice everytime we go out... be it to the supermarket or the crag or some high and wild place. Some of us are content to find our risks at home, some in the mountains. Who knows why.
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mtndncr
Trad climber
Berkeley
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May 10, 2006 - 12:26pm PT
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why: Because we love to be engaged completely, both physically and mentally, and when we are completely engaged in something we love, whether it's knitting or climbing El Cap, we are at the peak of life, these are the most precious moments in life, because when we're outside in some wild godforsaken beautiful place it gives us peace of mind and clarity, because it's completely meditative to be surrounded by the mountains and their beauty, because its a brief escape from the reality or illusion of 9 to 5 and all the crap that's happeing in the world, because if I didn't climb I would have died at 30 and been buried at 80, because everytime I go to Tuolumne I'm reminded of how beautiful our planet is and it needs protecting. Risks? The only greater risks is to not risk at all. People who don't climb or never try or never catch the bug will never understand how incredibly exhilarating and fulfilling this sport is. Climbing has changed my life and fulfilled it so many ways, just the community of friends I've made justifies it and all of the so called risks. So when our parents don't understand, I wonder if they had a passion in life so powerful that it made life worth living? Climbing, risk, danger, life, Why Not?
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doc bs
Social climber
Northwest
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May 10, 2006 - 12:44pm PT
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In the 60s my mom did "responsible thing" - quit skiing and kyacking and settled in suburbs to raise her children - she was thirty-three. Shortly after that she became overweight and sad and out-of-shape. She hasn't skiied since I was eight.
I have always been sad for her and think she would have been more fun as the hot mountain babe she was meant to be.
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kimgraves
Trad climber
Brooklyn, NY
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May 10, 2006 - 12:58pm PT
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Hi,
If you haven't read David Roberts book, "On the Ridge Between Life and Death : A Climbing Life Reexamined" it's worth reading on this subject.
I don't think the issue is whether kids like climbing - they certainly do. The issue is your behaviour now that you have the responsibility of a child. I have two grown step-children and 3 grandchildren. The oldest grandchild is just 5 and I'm looking forward to taking him to the climbing gym when I see him this summer. He's looking forward to it as well!
As Roberts points out in his book, climbing is a selfish activity. The pleasures of climbing are personal and not communal. Your loved ones can be happy for you in your personal pleasure, but they can't share in your personal feelings. That's just the nature of climbing - or playing golf for that matter.
Having a child is a responsibility unlike any other. A child, unlike your spouse for example, cannot take care of themselves. The are dependent for their survival on their parents and the society that they live in. There is a wide variety of how well parents take care of their children and luckily children are pretty resilient. But you can't escape the responsibility inherent in the job. And that responsibility demands a risk assessment of your behavior. You'll know this in an immediate way the first time you see your child and you realize just how helpless they are.
That risk assessment is personal - I can't tell you what to do - but you will need to do it as part of your new responsibility. My children are grown up now and so need me less. But I am loved and needed in other ways by them, my grand children, and my partner. I take risks based on that level of responsibility and with the knowledge that I would be missed if I wasn't around. Sometimes I step over that line, but not deliberately. Is my life poorer for it? No. The pleasures of children, grand children, and domestic partnership are immense.
Best, Kim
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nlunstrum
Trad climber
Temporary Flatlander from IN.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2006 - 09:49am PT
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Kim,
Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll check it out.
Nathan
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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May 12, 2006 - 12:22pm PT
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" Long road trips, countless hours in the car are no good. Always deep in mind your childs needs, physically and mentally. "
When I was a kid(one of eight, though. Maybe I need to mention that, in regards to my statement), my mom and dad took us on loooooonnnngggg road trips for summer vacation. We lived in Wisconsin, and usually it was a 3-day drive to upstate New York, where my mom grew up and still had family. But one year it was out to Mount Rushmore, the Badlands, and Wall Drug, SD.
To get there in a reasonable amount of time(dad was not a patient man), he would, of course, drive the thruways....boooooorrrrrrinnggggg......
But, the did take measure to insure we weren't too insane with boredom. One - Isolation! They would have us in one of those campers that go on top of a pickup truck(my dad made a GIGANTIC one from scratch once; Mounted it to an old 1950's bigass truck base. Not as big as a semi, but probably one step down from that. It slept 8, comfortably.....). Anyway, theye were in the cab, and would rotate one kid at a time to have the front seat. This was sometimes a coveted situation(if you wanted something - here was your chance to work it) and somteimes, a definitely undesireable place to be(you had gotten a fight going, and "had to be removed.")
Anyway - that kept them sane from screaming kids, and so...they were more happy. Happy grownups = Better chance at happy kids.
Second, mom would make sure we stopped frequently enough to get out and excercise. She would make dad go to those little out of the way kitschy attractions - Mom was SO smart. And I , to this day, have a fondness for those places.
She also made sure we stopped at EACH of those stupid rest spots along the way, or at least every other one. Becuase chances were good that at least one kid had to pee, and she knoew that.
Third - entertainment. Interestingly, with 8 kids, that facet is sort of built-in.....But mom taught us those "Hundred Bottles of Beer" songs, "I Spy" games and all that. And she would usually come to the back for part of the day and get us into something like that.
The other thing for entertainment was when we went to one of those roadside attraction that had "good" crap in the souvenir shop, we were each allowed to choose an item. (I always got an indian princess doll. Every single time. I loved themmmm). And that would be good for a while. 8 different toys or whatever, and after you got tired of yours, you would play with one of the siblings.
There could have been more done to keep us happy on those long hauls, but all in all, I think they did a pretty good job. But I think that it was always a better situation when we kids were able to be separated from the parents. Needing space works both wasys.....hahahah.
Anyway - Climbing with kids - Selfish? - I don't have kids, and it doesn't look like I will, so I really can't say much. I think the parents here have given a pretty good idea about how they handle it with a positive way. I know that, even though I wasn't interested in the same things my parents were, as a child, the exposure to them has defintely made for a more enriched life for me, and as an adult, I can see how I might not have ever done a lot of the thinbgs I know enjoy if my parents hadn't "dragged me along" on thier stuff.
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