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nlunstrum
Trad climber
Indiana
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 8, 2006 - 09:40am PT
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Some recent topics have citied climbing and other high risk activities as being selfish. I was wondering what those of you with kids thought? Have you slowed down your high risk acticities specificly out of respect for your kids? Once the kids are old enough to participate do they come along with you climbing? Do you find yourself taking fewer risks when they are out there with you?
Myself:
My wife and I are expecting our first kid in Aug. So I've been thinking a lot about this as of late. I've always been a pretty conservative climber, no significant solos, climb routes pretty much with in my limits. Probebly the most risky thing I do right now is riding my bicycle in traffic to work.
Would love to hear what all of you think, with kids or not.
Nathan
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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I have a two year old daughter and another scheduled to make an appearance any day now.
I think it depends on what type of climbing you're talking about. If you're climbing 8000 meter peaks with a serious chance of meeting the grim reaper I suppose your children might cause you to think twice about it. I would hope so. If you free-solo a lot, I think having a child might force you to reconsider some of the risks you're taking. However, if we're simply talking about typical cragging or wall climbing, I don't think children would be likely to effect your climbing style very much. I suppose it really depends on how dangerous you think the type of climbing you're doing is. Maybe I'm naive but compared to the chances of getting killed by cancer or a drunk driver I just don't usually think of a day of climbing as risking my life. In fact I plan to take my daughter with me as soon as she's able. If I back-off a difficult climb because I'm intimidated by the long run outs, I wish I could say I did it for my kid but I'm pretty sure it's because I'm soft. ;)
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nlunstrum
Trad climber
Temporary Flatlander from IN.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2006 - 10:00am PT
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"I wish I could say I did it for my kid but I'm pretty sure it's because I'm soft. ;)"
lol...I agree
Nathan
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Don't think about it too much. If you're solid with your skills now and down't have mishaps...then why change things. In other words, if you force a change, you might not be FOCUSING on what you're suppose to be doing...climbing. After I had kids I continued to climb and didn't change a thing. I think more than anything that has changed my climbing is my age. With age I have mellowed, but more as a result of deconditioning and less climbing, hence less skill, hence less confidence. Keep climbing bro, climb hard and climb SAFE. Always climb safe.
Peace
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Seems to me it'a a bigger crime for someone to give up doing the things they love because of something that might happen. You could just as likely get mashed on your bike ride to work, or hit by someone and killed while driving your own car. People are much happier and nicer when they're being who they're supposed to be, so that probably results in happier, more well-adjusted kids. I wonder sometimes if kids have so many problems because so many parents are wound WAY too tight these days.
Go climbing if that's what makes you happy. Share with your kids the joy of the outdoors instead of the X-box/Nintendo route.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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I have yet to see a kid who did not enjoy climbing.
Kids make better climbing partners that adults much of the time.
IF climbing were really dangerous, there would be dead bodies piled up at crags every weekend, because people do so many stupid things while climbing (and live anyway).
IF you are careful, climbing is MUCH safer than driving to the crag.
IF I had kids of my own, they'd be climbing as soon as they wanted to. I think the youngest climber I have actually climbed with was 3 or 4.
Besides, kids bounce very well. Just make sure they wear a helmet.
Don't be too unhappy when a 5-7 year old out climbs you.
You can bet they will have more fun than you will.
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spyork
Social climber
Land of Green Stretchy People
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Well I really shouldn't reply on the marriage thread, but I will chime in here.
My theory is climb to live. My kid started climbing with me now. There is more responsibility to deal with, but that comes with the territory. I just make it a bit safer, pick stuff I think he can make it up, and have a fun time. In a year or two, he will probably be passing me by.
His attitude is great. No whining. Will admit he's afraid but does the stuff to get it done.
Steve
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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"IF you are careful, climbing is MUCH safer than driving to the crag."
I used to think this, now I'm not so sure. There actually are quite a few climbers (or former climbers) that have had life threatening injuries and if you start talking to the climbers that have been around for 20+ years a depressingly high number of them seem to know people who have been killed climbing (this is obviously true of vehicles too, but [almost] everybody spends a great deal of time in automobiles).
It would be nice to see some relevant statistics. For instance, for a climber that spends a day out cragging and ends up in the emergency room with a life threatening injury, just what is the chance it was from a car wreck versus climbing?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Look august, to die climbing you have to do something really stupid AND be unlucky. You are almost always in control of that situation in simple cragging To die driving is much easier. Other people whose actions are totally out of your control can kill you, as well you your onw fvck ups.
On the drive to the crag this week, (5 hours) we saw many roadside crosses, and one horrible wreck. There are no crosses or fatalities at the crag we visited, although it is a potentially very dangerous area, being multi pitch and mostly unclimbed.
If you are going to be depressed because a few people eventually get complacent and fvck up, unluck out, and die climbing, then you are too easily depressed.
I will leave mountaineering out of this, because that really is dangerous. Don't take your kid mountaineering then.
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Mini
Social climber
Bishop, CA
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How about a sedentary, self-loathing, depressed/agressive workaholic dad who scarfs cheeseburgers and alcohol and passes on a crippling sense of shame and worthlessness to his children until they spit on his grave and sing alleluja...irresponsible?
Live your life and love your child. There are many kinds of death.
(not that there's anything wrong with cheeseburgers and alcohol per se, mind you...)
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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A cheese burger made me sick on the road trip. Wile we were puleld over on the shoulder of the interstate so I could run into the woods and evacuate, my partner sat in the van and worried that a semi would veer off the road and crush him and the van.
Cheeseburgers are potentially very, very dangerous.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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She is 16 now
and can't remember not knowing how to climb
there was a certain amount of selfisheness on my part involved with teaching her to climb in the first place
but I don't think she holds it against me.
She does climb outside, as well
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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When climbing, you are entrusted with your partner's life, and he/she with yours.
How is this a selfish sport again?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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That is a great point JAK.
You been to laurel yet?
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Jak,
That part's not selfish at all. I think the title is referring to the possibility of leaving loved ones behind if you get the big chop.
I've thought about this a lot and still do. I've toned it down since my first daughter was born. No backcountry skiing, no climbs at my limit (except bouldering). Pretty simple and leaves lots of fun stuff to do.
BTW I'm thinking of giving up bicycle commuting. Last stretch into town is way scarier than any climbing I do.
$.02
pc
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Dru
climber
HELL, BABY, HELL!
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So was Alex Lowe selfish?
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Mick K
climber
Northern Sierra
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More people die mowing thier lawn everey year than do climbing. Go climb!
(Atch- I know I should take my own advicer but I am still in ski mode)
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nlunstrum
Trad climber
Temporary Flatlander from IN.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2006 - 01:28pm PT
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pc,
yeah I hear you, my first mile or so is on a very busy road, then through neighborhoods the rest of the way. Funny though, the only close call I've had, so far, is from a driver blowing a stop sign in a quiet neighborhood.
nathan
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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re."So was Alex Lowe selfish? "
His wife and kids are the only ones fit to judge. IMHO
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nlunstrum
Trad climber
Temporary Flatlander from IN.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2006 - 01:35pm PT
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dru - "So was Alex Lowe selfish?"
I think everyone has to make that choice for themselves. I atteneded one of his last slide shows before his death. At the time of his death I really didn't consider his kids, now with one on the way myself, his kids having to face the death of their father is formost in my mind. Tough.
nathan
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