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Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 22, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
Looks like the Colorado City crossing guards,..






















The next photo portrays a very well built piece (and I like the HK also, but drop the mag coupler. Throws the balance.)
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 22, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 22, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Ron....Colorado City or Colorado Springs, not much difference.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Sep 22, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
I made a 7SAUM for myself a couple weeks ago.
This will fill my freezer with meat for the year.
Precision build in a Surgeon 591 action:

Credit: GhoulweJ

Not sure why the photo is sideways.

Here I'm turning down the barrel prepping it for threads and chambering.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 22, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
Latest US shooting spree ended,... by a good guy with a gun.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 23, 2013 - 02:17am PT

Real hunting


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 23, 2013 - 02:26am PT
A real climber's piece...

Just to keep the belayer's attention, mind you.
Just to keep the belayer's attention, mind you.
Credit: Reilly
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Sep 23, 2013 - 10:50am PT
Latest US shooting spree ended,... by a good guy with a gun.

Latest US shooting spree started...by a nutcase with a gun. Thanks, NRA.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Sep 23, 2013 - 11:33am PT
Which one?

They Navy Yard? Cuz that should have been stopped by good guys with guns long before it even started.

The one in Chicago? Because that one wasn't stopped at all.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 23, 2013 - 03:04pm PT

Umerican hunting... the Americas of today...

"There has been a big increase in so-called "exotic hunting", where guests not only go after indigenous species such as wolves and bears, but also blast away at imported zebras and giraffes. Convenience is essential for the hedge-fund crowd. Most exotic hunts take place in ranches from which the animals can't escape (Texas has 600). Exotic hunters can shoot elephants from cars or from the backs of other elephants, sometimes the orphaned calves of the victims of previous hunts. For the truly lazy there is "just-in-time shooting", where animals are trained to turn up at certain hours, and "internet shooting", where you can guide the gun from your desk."
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 23, 2013 - 03:06pm PT

Real hunting...

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 29, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Well Gary, you got the nutcase part right.

I doubt very much that the NRA likes the idea of such people owning guns. The problem lies with the difficulty of early diagnosis.

And wonder of wonder, from the liberal media 60 Minutes we just got a segment that criticizes the poor support that mental health gets here, and an expert points out that most of the mass killings in the past 7 years were perpetrated by the mentally ill that slipped through the cracks or got no help at all. He went on to add that if more resources are not devoted to treatment that part of the cost will be more of these incidents.

Banning ordnance doesn't help sick people.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Nov 29, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
Wandering man with Alzheimer's shot, killed in Walker County
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/nov/28/wandering-man-with-alzheimers-shot-killed/
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 5, 2014 - 12:14am PT
So as not to derail a nice thread about appreciation of firearms:
(I've been drinking, so forgive typos)

No, I have repeatedly distinguished between moral principles and legal ones. For example, I despise supposedly "fellow Christians" who have themselves conflated their own narrow notion of morality with what "should" be law in this country.

So saying that the founding fathers were Christians, therefore all laws must follow Christian principles even if those principles are not defined in the US Constitution is totally different from saying the Founding Fathers were Lockean Libertarians therefore all laws must follow Lockean principles not defined in the Constitution? We all use our personal morality to define what we believe "should" be law. I believe that adultery is immoral, yet it is neither illegal nor unconstitutional. I believe that the Death Penalty and abortion are both immoral, yet they are constitutional and legal. I believe that if showing violence and murder on broadcast TV is legal, then showing naked boobs and saying the F-word should be legal, but it's not. So what? Despise me.

What I've said is that the burden of argumentation is on the part of anti-gun-people to explain exactly HOW (the principled basis of) their legislative proposals are internally consistent. And the problem for them continues to be that they are QUICK to suggest sweeping laws that criminalize GUNS, when instead they should be seeking solutions that take seriously the problem of human responsibility in the USE of guns.

You suggest that "philosophical" or "moral" points can be entirely separated from "legal" ones. I state that they cannot (and still have laws remain principled and legitimate). I continually press anti-gun-people to explain what philosophical/moral principles ground their proposed legislation.

It's easy to win an argument when you set the rules, but you don't. No provision in the constitution requires a single consistent, legitimate philosophical basis for a new law. The Constitution itself is a balancing act between different or even opposing philosophical principles. If you become a member of congress, the President or a Supreme Court Justice you can apply that standard, but until then the only standard required is majority of both houses, signature of the President and being upheld by any challenge at the Supreme Court. The burden required of those who wish to see fewer gun crimes in this nation is to change the votes of perhaps a dozen members of congress, whether that is achieved by the force of their statistical/legal/moral/philosophical argument, the threat of defeat at the polls, or by legal and constitutionally protected bribery in the form of campaign contributions is irrelevant. This is what I mean by your failure to differentiate between philosophical and legal arguments.

. I believe that the United States was far, far more Libertarian-principled at its founding and that is has indeed drifted far from such philosophical principles. We have swung from Libertarian to Communitarian in our thinking, voting, and legislating; and that cannot be denied.

I'm an educated heterosexual white male, so I have no reason to doubt your claim of an erosion of Libertarian principles, however if I were poor, female, black, homosexual or a draftee, I might have a different view.

I assume you feel this drift is a bad thing, I don't, the majority agrees with me since they voted for it, and since those laws are subject to Supreme Court challenge and have survived, they are therefore constitutional, whether or not they are Libertarian in principle. This is also what I mean by your failure to differentiate between philosophical and legal arguments.

In that time while that drift to Communitarianism has happened, this nation has also become far more wealthy, healthy and powerful. Do you think there might be a relationship?

Unfettered Libertarianism or unfettered any-other-ism is doomed to failure, the Founding Fathers realized that, why can't you?

TE
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 5, 2014 - 12:41am PT
So as not to derail a nice thread about appreciation of firearms:
(I've been drinking, so forgive typos)

Well, TE, why would I leap into a morass where angels fear to tread?

The "logical" leaps you take in your various commentary should perhaps be attributed to the drinking as much as any typos.

I'm done trying to engage with you. Seriously, you simply don't understand the sorts of distinctions that could make the attempt productive. Your comparison of the "Christian" founders with the "Libertarian" founders is a classic example. You literally do not understand the difference between "principles" in the sense of applied vs meta ethics, so you conflate "principles" in both senses in your argument. And I don't have time in my life to get you up to speed on such distinctions.

Really, seriously: I mean this, you have a LOT more reading to do on ethics and political philosophy before you are worth engaging at the level you are trying for. It's an exercise in futility, and your attitude is so belligerent, that, as I said, I have no more interest in leaping into the fray.

Just count it a "win" in your own mind (as I'm confident you do at each iteration of our exchanges). Blissful ignorance reigns supreme.
QITNL

climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 01:00am PT
What if there were some Founding Mothers? That might have shaped the Constitution some. Particularly the second amendment, many moms don't like their kids playing guns.

What if there were some Founding Brothers, Founding Asians, Founding Mexicans? Or some Founding Indians, to share the perspective of staring down the barrel of one?

In that time since they've had a vote, this nation has become far more wealthy, healthy and powerful. Do you think there might be a relationship?

Instead the arbiter of eternal truth is a bunch of old white-haired dudes? Really? I mean, just listen to yourselves....

Sorry, chaps: Thee Great Days of Thy Founding Fathers are well and truly in the coffin.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 5, 2014 - 06:40am PT
What if there were some Founding Mothers? That might have shaped the Constitution some. Particularly the second amendment, many moms don't like their kids playing guns.

The mothers in those days understood two things very clearly: 1) the notion of inalienable rights; 2) the fact that those rights must often be defended by force of arms.

It's easy today to have mealy-mouthed "freedom" that was handed to you on a silver platter and for which you've never sacrificed anything. Comparing the many liberal-minded mothers of today (many of them just poppin' out kids they have no clue how to pay for) with mothers back then is a pitiful joke, plain and simple.

What if there were some Founding Brothers, Founding Asians, Founding Mexicans? Or some Founding Indians, to share the perspective of staring down the barrel of one?

Again, comparing people of any race today with the peoples of those races then is utterly ridiculous. At least the Indians back then fought and died against an oppressor, doing everything in their power to stand up for their rights and freedoms. THEY understood, as most "Americans" today cannot and will not understand, that true freedom has a high cost in blood and violence. And it's of note that they started using guns the second they could lay their hands on them.

And don't single out "White Americans" for special condemnation. Asians have been killing Asians for an order of magnitude longer than Americans have been killing anybody. Blacks were enslaving blacks LONG before a European showed up to teach them that there was a much broader market for slavery than they had ever imagined. American Indians were slaughtering each other LONG before any white man showed up. And the litany goes on and on, and for MOST of that time guns had not even been invented.

You flagrant and utterly inaccurate political correctness is transparent and ridiculous.

In that time since they've had a vote, this nation has become far more wealthy, healthy and powerful. Do you think there might be a relationship?

You can SAY it, but that doesn't make it true. The effective purchasing power of people in this nation has been steadily falling for almost 100 years, accelerated during the Wilson and FDR administrations, and now at a literally break-neck pace toward oblivion!

You have imbibed the Kool-Aid and really like it, I'm afraid. If you can look at the condition of this nation at present and call it "wealthy, healthy, and powerful," you are on some mind-altering drug--one probably printed up for you by the Fed.

Counting up every man, woman, and CHILD in the USA today, we are EACH (including EVERY KID) in debt in the amount of: $54,910 just in "virtue" of the national debt. But KIDS can't legally be in debt (although each of them will grow up to FIND themselves spectacularly in debt), so the ADULT amount is at least double that. Most people that found themselves in debt to the tune of DOUBLE their average, annual family income (debt-to-GDP, which is even an overly conservative way of casting the ratio!)... well, they would be declaring bankruptcy.

But the fact of the matter is much, much worse than the debt-to-GDP ratio makes it sound. In fact, considered in terms of actual annual REVENUE generated by taxes, we are actually in debt almost 16 TIMES our annual revenue! See: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=203

How many families would NOT be declaring bankruptcy if their indebtedness was 16 TIMES their annual income???

But it is much, much worse than even that comparison, because the debt most families carry does not directly affect their EARNING power. But the US debt very, very directly affects the overarching economy, which in turn directly affects our declining productivity, and hence the GDP side of that equation. And declining GDP CAUSES declining revenue, even as debt continues to rise.

And "powerful?" What do you mean? Militarily? Economically? This nation is on the brink of the dollar no longer being the world's reserve currency. When that happens, all of our power to play Wizard of Oz and manipulate world economies (and, hence, our debt structure) will evaporate overnight.

"Healthy?" What do you mean? Economically? See above. Physically? You have GOT to be kidding! America is the FATTEST country by far (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Obesity_country_comparison_-_path.svg);.

America ranks 6th in the world in terms of cancer incidence (http://www.wcrf.org/cancer_statistics/cancer_frequency.php);.

What do you mean by "healthy?"

You are peering through a narrow window at the waning, residual effects of the economic health and power this nation ONCE had (based upon the decisions made hundreds of years ago by those "old white-haired dudes" you so blithely disparage) but that are in RAPID decline as a result of decisions made relatively recently in this nation's history.

Because things still FEEL pretty good to YOU, you intentionally blind yourself to the realities that are staring down the GUN BARREL at you (if you even actually live in America, which is an open question in my mind).

Things are NOT getting better on ANY front for us. By every metric you can employ to measure a nation's fiscal health, our vaunted "wealth" evaporated quite some time ago (thanks to this "fabulous" liberalism), and we are now literally bankrupt as a nation. Only our currency manipulations are masking this FACT. And that fact will instantly be seen in all its glory the DAY the major nations of the Earth abandon the dollar as their reserve currency. It's all smoke and mirrors now.

Check out this site: http://www.measuringworth.com/uscompare/relativevalue.php

And this site: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

Instead the arbiter of eternal truth is a bunch of old white-haired dudes? Really? I mean, just listen to yourselves....

Are you even remotely serious with any PART of this? "Eternal truth?" Whaaaat?

Look, either you believe in inalienable rights, or you do not. If you do not, then you are NOT an American, regardless of where you were born and how you like to refer to yourself. The founding documents of THIS nation are literally meaningless if stripped of that fundamental axiom. So, please, IMMEDIATELY move and take your treason elsewhere. I, for one, support and defend this Declaration of Independence and the Constitution that emerged from it. If you think the Constitution needs such a fundamental reworking as to abandon our founding axioms, then, seriously, you are my enemy and the enemy of every true American. No hyperbole. These principled divides are what start real wars.

If you do believe in inalienable rights, then you just kicked yourself in the face with your above statements. Apologize to yourself and to all of us that were subjected to such blithe ridiculousness.

Some of you people seem to think that you can just pop off on an anonymous forum and vent whatever mindless wackiness comes to "mind." But this is no joke, and this country is DEEPLY (and almost exactly evenly) divided between people that WANT this nation to RETURN to its founding principles and those that think that those principles (and the people that hold them) can be trivially and blithely abandoned, as if "this nation" will go on pretty much the same or even better than before.

This divide is serious and may well result in significant bloodshed before long. At least have the decency to THOUGHTFULLY contemplate the things you say and ARGUE carefully for them. This flip, often drunken, popping off with entirely thoughtless comments reveals either the sad level of your "thinking" or is intentionally designed to trivialize something that is deadly, and I emphasize DEADLY, serious. "... Old white-haired dudes?"

Those gentlemen thought things through at a level you literally cannot even imagine. Show a bit of respect and recognize what is at stake here. Are you prepared to fight and die for your "thoughts?"

Sorry, chaps: Thee Great Days of Thy Founding Fathers are well and truly in the coffin.

So, finally, we are on the brink of agreement about something. I AM very afraid that the tide of liberalism really has come in with enough force to wash away the last remaining bulwarks of our founding principles. Perhaps it can yet be turned. But the Taco threads make me very afraid that you are indeed correct.

I'll note that your final comment makes it sound like you are not from the United States. Perhaps you are just one of the many anonymous foreigners that enjoy poking fun at the US from afar. If so, just be warned that the retraction and/or downfall of the US will portend nothing good for the rest of the world.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 5, 2014 - 10:27am PT
Bigger Terror Weapon - Knives Or Guns? Here's The Answer




http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kwYeO7Akyeg&feature=g-high-u
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 5, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
Look, either you believe in inalienable rights, or you do not. If you do not, then you are NOT an American, regardless of where you were born and how you like to refer to yourself. The founding documents of THIS nation are literally meaningless if stripped of that fundamental axiom. So, please, IMMEDIATELY move and take your treason elsewhere.

So dissenting opinion is now treason? Philosophers and lawyers far greater than you or I do not agree on what exactly those rights mean in theory or in practice, so whose list of inalienable rights do I need to believe in?

I accept (if not necessarily "believe") those inalienable rights explicitly defined in the Bill of Rights, and those accepted as implicit, such as self-defense. I don't accept that a person's right to bear arms or self-defense is unconstitutionally restricted by a law that requires them to ensure that the buyer of their gun is not a criminal. We have laws that have been declared constitutional that clearly restrict many other inalienable rights in order to ensure a common benefit to or prevent a greater violation, what is so special about the second amendment?

TE
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Mar 5, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
rant retracted. have a nice day.
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