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Messages 3901 - 3920 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 21, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Scott was spot on actually. This has been said previously by many and in many different ways though.
jghedge

climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 02:35pm PT

"The homocide rat4es HAVE BEEN coming down for quite some time now. MANY seem to forget this."

"And im sure the homicide rates have gone up since 2004"

"funny how you post up one article and assume the world is according to that. Extensive research indeed."


And this blithering idiot thinks he should be walking around in public armed to the teeth

Like i've said many times, Rong is a better advocate for gun control than anyone who actually advocates for it.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 21, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
At least we can celebrate the end of winter!

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
Scott's post isn't being ignored... but we've been over many of the issues already.

First off, your map is misleading, as it includes all murders. Try this... it puts the US at number 11. We aren't in the best of company there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Criminals don't go to the local gun shop to buy their weapons. Criminals buy their guns from underground markets where there is no background check.

Where do those guns come from in the first place? Come on people! See the need for tracking gun purchases yet?

Criminals buy any kind of gun they want, including grenades, explosives.

You can't go down to the local gun store and buy grenades or explosives... they are not available through legal channels like guns are... which is why they are not used as often in crimes as guns are. Get it?

Anyone here think that the Chinese citizens would have wanted some firearms to protect themselves from the government back when they went communist? between 40 and 60 million slaughtered and starved by their gov.

Anyone here think armed citizens would even slow down the US military if the US "went communist?"

Criminals find the weaker, the unprotected.

How about self defense uses with guns... a minimum or 600,000 times a year, a criminal act is thwarted by a lawful gun toting citizen.

Please reconcile those two statements.

Since Sandy hook, the number of gun applications at Newtown, CT is 1.5 times the normal rate. Gun permit apps are up everywhere. Go in gun shops and I think one will find a representation from every legal age group, and many demographics.

Irrational fear based purchases don't prove anything other than sheeple are idiots. Remember the duct tape and plastic run?

Anyone care to follow Joe Biden's advise on self defense?

Joe Biden is an idiot.

Punishing lawful citizens and using them as the butt of jokes will accomplish little more than anti gunners patting each other on the back, IMO.

Nobody is punishing lawful citizens. Stricter regulations will be no more than a minor inconvenience. Painting stricter gun regulations as "punishing lawful citizens" will accomplish much less than pointing out irrational claims based on shitty statistics.

jghedge

climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
"The homocide rat4es HAVE BEEN coming down for quite some time now. MANY seem to forget this."

"And im sure the homicide rates have gone up since 2004"


Both posts by Rong, 10 minutes apart, on this thread



The blithering idiot couldn't debate a 3rd grader.

And everyone on this thread who thinks they need to be armed - this is the level of mentality and critical reasoning you're associating yourself with.


You're just as stupid as he is.







Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
I don't get it

I am a "lawful" citizen

I own five guns and I am a Concealed Carry Holder


How exactly am I being "hurt" or "compromised" by any seriously likely to pass federal legislation?

how would expanded background checks effect me, can't see how

how would much tougher penalties for straw buyers effect me, can't see how
jghedge

climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
"How exactly am I being "hurt" or "compromised" by any seriously likely to pass federal legislation?"


Explain to me how, as a slave owner, my right to own slaves is compromised by not allowing slavery to spread to Kansas?


Not all conservatives are as stupid as Rong (most, but not all)

They look at US history, and realize that, because 12,000 gun murders a year are a social/civil rights issue, and that outlawing them has been proven to virtually eliminate gun murders, and that other countries are refusing to allow whats happening here from happening in their country...

They realize guns will eventually be outlawed in the US. 12,000 gun murders a year is a social/civil rights issue - and liberals always win those. Always.

Combine that with the demographics that ensure the repub party, by 2020, will no longer be politically relevant, and they know it's Game Over. And they're right. That's why they're stockpiling guns and ammo.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
They realize guns will eventually be outlawed in the US. 12,000 gun murders a year is a social/civil rights issue - and liberals always win those. Always.

No Joe, actually NO ONE but apparently YOU believe guns will be outlawed in the USA.

And you are both naive and full of hubris for even seriously thinking it true.

And here is where you are wrong:

1) "guns" are NOT a god damn social or civil issue, legal gun ownership is held sacred in our fuking Constitution, human beings in this country feel a hard wired need to own guns to protect themselves

THAT is a very different "social" issue than say abortion or gay marriage

2) you are also flat wrong in presuming to be factually true that all guns will be outlawed by federal legislation, that statement is predictive without basis, in fact zero support or basis

I have said this before, you only serve to lessen your own credibility when you define things in terms of words like "liberals always win", you win no one over to your position by doing so, and in fact you purposely seek to draw lines that largely just piss people off, hardly helpful to advancing your case but I suppose you do it because it makes you feel morally superior, a childish reason
saghi

Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
First off, your map is misleading, as it includes all murders.

Thought that's what the issue was. Too many murders...

Where do those guns come from in the first place? Come on people! See the need for tracking gun purchases yet?

No. I see the need for tracking automatic weapons, large explosives, and other equally devastating devices, not semi-automatic small caliber rifles.

You can't go down to the local gun store and buy grenades or explosives... they are not available through legal channels like guns are... which is why they are not used as often in crimes as guns are. Get it?

I don't think the amount of guns or ease of owning a gun is the issue. I think the issue is the amount of people in our society willing and ready to kill. If we lived in a society where nobody thought murdering another human being was a legitimate option the amount of guns we have wouldn’t be an issue.

Anyone here think armed citizens would even slow down the US military if the US "went communist?"

Not by any significant amount. The government has already grown too large. We wouldn't have much of a chance. Still, here you are trying to make the split between us and the government even larger. Do you pay attention to politics? How do you trust any of them?

Irrational fear based purchases don't prove anything other than sheeple are idiots. Remember the duct tape and plastic run?

Yes, sheeple are idiots. We should think for ourselves and encourage others to think for themselves. I agree we have many issues in this country. I do not agree that the government is the answer to them. The people buying guns aren’t sheeple. The sheeple are the ones that demand the government fix our problems. The government wants more power and you (sheeple) are trying to give it to them.

Joe Biden is an idiot.

Agreed! How much better are the other politicians you trust so much?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
It is foolish to assume there is any correlation between the '94 Crime Bill and any statistics regarding gun crime.

For one thing the bill was only called an "assault weapon ban". There were still plenty of battle rifles and hi-cap mags grandfathered and legal.
What it did was cap importation or production.

My investment appreciated then almost as much as in the past 3 months.

The increase in certain crimes could easily be attributable to other factors.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
Oh, and a couple days ago I was able to purchase a Colt M4A1 SOCCOM at,........ Walmart!

I could flip it for a grand profit, but it is a real nice battle rifle,..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
I'm done.

What a bunch of fuking morons.

Fuk this place and all the straw man bullshit ya'll like to wallow in.


Norton is the only person with a clue here.
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:31pm PT
Mechrist, the map wasn't misleading. I stated that I was comparing murder rate around the world as a whole, which guns are a part of, to show that the US is on the lower end of the scale. I thought it was relevant to a conversation about murder

Yes it is possible to buy grenades and explosives, through underground markets. they aren't used in as many crimes because ammo for a 9mm is cheap and readily available and a pistol is easy to conceal and use. Just the same reason rifles aren't used in many crimes and only kill 350 or so a year.

***
"Criminals find the weaker, the unprotected.

How about self defense uses with guns... a minimum or 600,000 times a year, a criminal act is thwarted by a lawful gun toting citizen.

Please reconcile those two statements."

**
ok, easy... criminals don't easily have access to a database of gun owners. Not all criminals are smart enough and have the ability to pick and choose the weak and unprotected.


"Anyone here think that the Chinese citizens would have wanted some firearms to protect themselves from the government back when they went communist? between 40 and 60 million slaughtered and starved by their gov.

Anyone here think armed citizens would even slow down the US military if the US "went communist?"

*
I'm not talking about the US in that one. The fact remains, China slaughtered it's own defenseless population. Russia did the same thing. I'd rather have the right to arms, no matter my chances. I'm sure the British didn't think the colonies stood a chance.


Mechrist, people exercising their rights are idiots? who taught you that idea? good job with the name calling though.

Gov. Cuomo just banned any mags larger than 7 rounds is their way of punishing lawful citizens, cause when the average citizen gets caught with 8 round magazine they are now felons. Cuomo is already fixing that legislation, which criminals, the ones that commit 75% of gun murder, will pay no attention to.
Missouri is trying to ban any semiautomatic with a pistol grip. THe gov will try to seize any semi with a pistol grip, no grandfathering no transfer. Is that not a punishment? Turning lawful citizens to criminals? Probably won't pass, but they sure are trying

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.


scott
jghedge

climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
"human beings in this country feel a hard wired need to own guns to protect themselves"


Couldn't care less - they're delusional. They do not need to be armed, and their delusion results in 12,000 gun murders a year.

You feel a hard-wired need to arm yourselves against the same people you advocate arming in the first place, when the example of other countries proves it unnecessary. Madness, which will eventually be constitutionally amended.

A lot of us feel a hard-wired need to end this idiotic lunacy, the only "justification" for which is a mistake made in a 240-year-old document, when the current situation couldn't possibly have been envisioned. They were wrong about other things, too - namely slavery, which also required amending the constitution to get rid of.

How any sentient being can possibly justify 12,000 gun murders a year, when other countries comparable to us have virtually none, is only explainable as mass delusion.




jghedge

climber
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
"I'm not talking about the US in that one. The fact remains, China slaughtered it's own defenseless population. Russia did the same thing."

Yes, because historical and cultural comparisons are only relevant if they support gun ownership. When they don't, (which currently, they don't), they suddenly become irrelevant, because, see, those are other countries, not ours.

You're saying that, in order for citizens to protect themselves, they need to be as well armed as their gov't is? Let us know when they start selling Apache helo's at WalMart.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Credit: philo
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
12,000 gun murders a year

A suicide is a murder? Oh. So I guess when a black person shoots themselves it counts as black on black crime.


lol
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
no jghedge, no need for people to buy choppers, and I didn't say they should be allowed to. I think up to and including full auto firearms, which lots already do legally own.

scott
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Asscott,

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.

what in the world does "abortions" have to do with this gun debate thread?

why would you ask Mechrist why he did not comment about abortions?

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
I thought it was relevant to a conversation about murder.

This is a "conversation" about guns.

Yes it is possible to buy grenades and explosives, through underground markets. they aren't used in as many crimes because ammo for a 9mm is cheap and readily available

Handguns are also readily available. Why? Because anyone with a clean record can legally buy a gun a month, every month... then turn around and sell it for $500 and a bag of meth.

Mechrist, people exercising their rights are idiots? who taught you that idea? good job with the name calling though.

No, people who act like idiots and say idiotic things are idiots.

Gov. Cuomo just banned any mags larger than 7 rounds is their way of punishing lawful citizens, cause when the average citizen gets caught with 8 round magazine they are now felons.

Obviously, an average citizen with an 8 round mag is no longer an average citizen, they are a criminal. In 1913 someone with a vile of cocaine could be considered an average citizen... in 1914 they would be a criminal. In 1972 if a woman got an abortion she was a criminal... in 1973 she could be an average citizen. That's how laws work. Pretty simple.

criminals, the ones that commit 75% of gun murder, will pay no attention to.

Because they will just buy what is available through straw sales. I'll bet money the number of 8 round mags used in crimes will drop once the current supply from straw sales dwindles.

Is that not a punishment? Turning lawful citizens to criminals? Probably won't pass, but they sure are trying

No, it isn't turning lawful citizens into criminals. It is turning those who choose not to live by the law into criminals. Big difference. And it certainly isn't punishment if it doesn't even pass.

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.

In a discussion about guns... yeah, no sh#t...
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