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Messages 3901 - 3920 of total 5826 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Yeah, MUST be other agendas...

38% of households have guns

58% of Americans want stricter gun control legislation

100% of those who think Obama is coming for their guns are morans
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
So predictable that our lawmakers have a knee-jerk reaction to the nutcases in our society, and in doing so, punish all of the responsible gun owners in this nation.

At the same time, they give credence to these despicable murderers by giving them exactly what so many of them seek...fame and notoriety. Suddenly, the Adam Lanzas of our society are martyrs....and those out there in our society that share that same, demented mindset, are inspired to follow in those awful footsteps.

The truth of the matter is this....our society grows more and more evil by the day. The breakdown of family values, and parents allowing their children to participate in and view such horrible actions via various media (video games, movies, TV, etc.) create a generation that knows no value for human life.

Irresponsible parenting and a society and media that shoves violence down the throats of our most precious resource...our kids...is destroying our communities across this great nation.

Every ill-conceived law that the powers that be can draw up, will do nothing to stop evil. If these lawmakers want to truly make a difference, they should put their power to use against Hollywood and the companies that produce the violence that fuels a young mind to turn violent.

Above that, parents need to sack up and become exactly what a parent should be.....and train a child to love their neighbor as themselves.

Parents wield more power in this issue than any lawmaker ever will.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
Misspelling it that many times makes you wonder who the moron really is.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Soo wes,, if they want to now diagnose nealry ALL returning Vets with PTSD, and then will remove thier gun rights, what do you think that will do to recruitments for the military? I have three brothers who were all in Nam, and all have some degree of afflictions of their health. My brother Rick has been battling the effects of agent orange recently. They are ALL law abiding citizens, and my oldest brother was in the Reno PD for many years as a reserve. But under guidelines proposed, they might all have thier gun rights taken away. They nor their guns have ever been involved in an illegal activity. FAIR??>?


edit: HEY CRAG!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
Sorry to hear about your brothers Ron. A couple of my cousins served in Desert Storm. A handful of my friends were in Iraq this last go round. With the exception of 1, they are all a hollow shell of their former selves. War takes a brutal toll on the soul.

But if they are a potential threat to public safety (like Lanza, like Holmes, like Routh, like Elder, like Hasan, etc), they shouldn't have guns. Just like blind people shouldn't have cars, people with Tourette's shouldn't have microphones, and people who are sexually attracted to children should not be teachers or priests... even if they have never been involved in (or busted for) any illegal activity.


Above that, parents need to sack up and become exactly what a parent should be.....and train a child to love their neighbor as themselves.

... while keeping a gun on the nightstand, of course.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:03pm PT

"... while keeping a gun on the nightstand, of course."



The gun owners I know keep their guns in a safe manner, and teach their children right off the bat that guns are NOT to be handled by them, and that should they ever do so, their ass will be kicked up, down and sideways!

Raise your kids to understand consequences for misbehaving.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
My brothers arent hollow shells.. They are much the same as they always were. But they do have some ptsd BY DEFINITION...A definition which has been radically abused by the VA - one of my bros worked for them as a counsleor after his thirty in the service. So you see that one issue has several sides alone as far as labeling of "mentally ill" go.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Ron, I just want to get this straight... are you advocating that every adult who has not yet been convicted of a felony should be allowed essentially unlimited access to guns (2 a week), regardless of their mental health status and/or perceived potential risk to society?

But you would still like to restrict the availability of weapons based on suspected gang affiliations, right?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
to answer you second point first, No im not advocating keeping arms out of gang bangers hands.. I advocate REMOVING THE GANG BANGERS period.. Put a bounty on their scalps. (albiet short haired fuzzy ones for the most)



As far as this mentally ill thing, yes, i do believe there is room for something, but what? Dr /patient confidence isnt to be taken lightly.
When someone like the dem legislator from vegas begins to publically threaten like he did, then yes the laws should come between him and guns,, which it did.

But,, gubbmint has more than shown a desire for more control- citzen and states alike. Do you trust them to come up with a viable system when witnessing the utter failure of everything else they get their fingers into? Economy is trashed, ME is a trash pile, we finnance both sides of wars there. They over ride states rights directly in violation of the 10th amendment..

The question of mental stability, when being adjudicated by FEDs, seems a bit Ironic to say the least. Thats what worries me about that.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Then who decides?

It seems you don't trust the Dr's. Especially the ones at the VA who "radically abuse" the diagnosis of PTSD. Do you trust any Dr's... you do know they are "scientists" right?... with all their bullshit "theories" and "statistics" and "studies."

I sure as sh#t don't feel qualified. If someone told me I was too mentally unstable to own a gun or do anything that might threaten the safety of others, who am I to argue?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
Well this is my point.. If it were up to me,, you might very well fall under a siezure of arms order LMAO!;-) THANKFULLY the 2nd amendment says we all have that right in the begining!

PTSD has always been around in some form or another Wes. But how people reacted to that has changed, and in large- due to the way the VA uses blanket treatments. There are REMFs claiming PTSD now days. My brother while being a career counselor saw this first hand. His method of treatment was to make them HTFU and re-join the real world. His method was NOT to further convince them drugs and diagnosis are the norm. His preference was to keep them off BS mind drugs and to embrace the positive features they gleamed from the military. But he was one of the few. GS is loaded with those 9 to 5vers whos motto is "it all pays the same".


now imagine being a nineteen year old considering military service and contemplating being labeled mentally ill after his service. That could make recruitment centers more lonely than in 1975!!!!!!


Ive actually given the mental thing a lot of thought from all angles. STICKY WICKIT it is.. But mental illness will always exist under the radar. There IS no way around that one. Anyone can snap for any reason at any time. Once upon a time,, stupid outlaws were simply gunned down their first time out..Now we defend them , get them off on some minor techno, and watch them repeat.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
The gun owners I know keep their guns in a safe manner, and teach their children right off the bat that guns are NOT to be handled by them, and that should they ever do so, their ass will be kicked up, down and sideways!

good point

but what about the other mega million gun owners you do not know personally?

and, you can't legislate parental control, and expecting people to act responsibly also does not work

got any other ideas to if not prevent at least lessen the likely hood of mass murders?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
But how people reacted to that has changed, and in large- due to the way the VA uses blanket treatments

I don't think that is fair. Modern warfare is NOTHING like it used to be. Soldiers would sit in trenches or foxholes until it was time to launch an attack or defend against the same, and then shoot it out with other soldiers.

From my understanding, the modern wars in the ME involve townspeople the soldiers had interacted with on a daily basis all the sudden opening fire on them. That has got to be FAR more stressful than "conventional" warfare. Anyone who has had to live through that and shows signs of PTSD seems like a pretty high risk to me.


Anyone can snap for any reason at any time.

But some are way more prone than others. The vast majority of murderers show signs of mental instability before they kill. Why not have a bit of screening to pick out the Rouths or Hasans before they snap? Why not focus on treatment, funded by huge fines imposed on straw purchasers/negligent gun shops? Mentally ill people who are a threat to themselves or others lose many of their rights and freedoms already, why exclude the 2nd amendment?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Far more stressfull than IwoJima?? No way in hell. More stressful than the thick jungles of NAM? Again,,perhaps equal in some ways but no way MORE stressful. They wiped out whole villages in Nam, and far more than just miLai. Men,Women, kids, dogs and pigs. war is hell. How men react to that hell will either make, or break them. Ive had family members on both sides of the coin. My Uncle Red for instance, was a very high IQ genious that went into Navel Intel in WW11. Whatever he was involved with turned him into a barely coherent alchaholic When he came out. In his case he shouldnt have been around guns. But that was also OBVIOUS to even me a tiny kid - that Uncle Red wasnt all there. War does have its mental victims, but not nearly what are diagnosed as such in todays times. That comes from someone that was in the know with the VA.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
Wes,

it does seem that a lot people nowadays tend to denigrate PTSD, poo pah it as merely some kind of made up weakness, almost a ploy to get diagnosed with and receive a VA benefit check

because it is mental and not like being in a wheel chair with both legs blown off in Iraq

"mental" afflictions have historically been seen by the dumb fuks as not that legitimate an issue
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
blah blah blah... I consider Nam to be non-conventional "modern" war... and yes, VERY stressful... thank you for helping to illustrate my point....

VERY STRESSFUL


a ploy to get diagnosed with and receive a VA benefit check

Fine. Give them the benefit check, give them treatment, and take away their guns until they are all better. Seems pretty fuking simple.


Problems, problems, problems... no solutions... no wonder this country is fuked.

Merka... bunch of whiny bitches who can't solve their own problems, won't let their elected officials do it, praise their system of government as the greatest EVER, know there are some who OBVIOUSLY shouldn't have guns, but are too afraid that their government will conquer them if they try to restrict gun ownership AT ALL. Pathetic.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
i cant remember the specifics, but there was a case in the last year or so where some vet was using PTSD as an excuse for something, and it turned ut he was a supply clerk or REMF. A supply clerk that was no where near a battle of any shape or form. I guess i suffer ptsd every night after finishing the days projects cuz i feel like that lol!
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
That has got to be FAR more stressful than "conventional" warfare. Anyone who has had to live through that and shows signs of PTSD seems like a pretty high risk to me.

Check out the casualty rates of soldiers in WWI (in those lovely trenches) and compare with the casualty rates of soldiers in Vietnam or the modern wars in the Middle East.
The etymology of "shell shock" is also kind of interesting.
If the modern wars in the ME were anything like good old fashioned total wars, we wouldn't be in that sh#t.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Casualty rates have little or nothing to do with it. In fact, I'd venture a wager with the all mighty that those ill suited for war were among the first to die in WWI (2% casualty rate) and WWII (2.5%), whereas a higher percentage of ill suited soldiers survived the mental fukfest that was Nam (0.7% casualty rate).

Tactics change. Guerrilla warfare involving citizens is OBVIOUSLY more stressful... and obviously has a much higher chance of affecting the mental health of someone reentering society. I've heard of numerous cases where soldiers wanted to go back because they couldn't deal with life over here.

Thank god for drones and the computer game trained soldiers of the future.(?)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
guerilla warfare involving citzens yu say?? You mean the S Vietnamese werent citizens?? You mean all those vills they strolled through day after day, not knowing which side those vills stood for, in a thickass jungle with snakes ,spiders, malaria and such ,werent as stressful as at least having a building to hide around? Is that right...Hrmmfff. and Bull shyt.
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