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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
Heres a far back simplistic view: The MORE we hear PTSD ADD ADHD and BFD, the worse our society has become. Is this all an excuse for poor behavoir starting young?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
guerilla warfare involving citzens yu say?? You mean the S Vietnamese werent citizens??

No Ron, I have already said I consider Nam to be non-conventional warfare, at least on par with the more recent wars in the ME.

But feel free to keep twisting it all you want. I'd expect nothing less.

Is this all an excuse for poor behavoir starting young?

Of course not. It is a diagnosis ascribed to someone who exhibits particular symptoms in hopes of better understanding the causes and ultimately treating the patient. Only a fool would look at it as an excuse.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:01pm PT
well,

I personally volunteer at the local VA hospital

I see the effect that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has had on these young men and women

not talking about the missing arms and legs

when I sit be their bedside and listen to them talk about how unprepared they were to be pulled out of a war zone and sent back to the United States......their constant nightmares and their very real fears and anger......

PTSD is very real, very personal, and is every bit as crippling as physical wounds

anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, uninformed, and just plain fuking stupid as hell
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Norton, my brother was a 1st sgt, non-com of the year TWICE, was on the cambodian border doing CIA and Air america crap . He was in the shyt as they say. And yes there were those that were affected greatly by action and HAVE PTSD,,but my brother Worked as a career counselor for over ten years after his thirty. His words-- Drs are pressured or just inclined to dose out the pills. He said over-all they were doing more damage than good as were diagnosis of PTSD, when really, they had returned from their service in the same shape they had left in, lost... They just needed to be re-focused on the positive aspects of that service. That according to an over 10 yr profesional in that field.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Sorry Ron, but as a scientist (and somewhat rational human being) it is hard for me not to comment on the absurdity of your posts. There are over 1 million mental health specialists with the VA, you hinge your entire argument on the opinion of one. There are probably a comparable number of applicable studies, you disregard them all.

Your approach is the same, regardless of the topic or discipline... you've made up your mind as to how the world works and will ignore the vast majority of evidence that contradicts your views and latch onto the few unnamed, unvetted, undocumented OPINIONS that support them. And you wonder why people don't show you more respect.

Thank god for old people who are able to keep an open mind!


Funny, this is the first picture on the VA's site:
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Ron,

I am not sure of the point you are trying to make about PTSD

you seem to recognize its effects on soldiers

but then you seem to also down play its effects, almost like you believe PTSD is some kind of fake
and is over prescribed and maybe Doctors should not be treating it with medications

just where do you stand on this, sorry I can't tell?

or maybe you aren't sure and just posting whatever comes to mind?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
Not at all Norton.. I know very well real PTSD exits. However it is also diagnosed too often and the ensuing drugs are also given out too often. That and the fact that many returning Vets shouldnt have their gun rights taken away just because they have moinor PTSD symptoms. And it certainly shouldnt be a balnket policy to qualify all battle vets as PTSD victims and strip their gunrights--and that was how we got to here.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
However it is also diagnosed too often and the ensuing drugs are also given out too often.


and this you know for sure to be true from your research into VA internal medical findings?

or is your statement simply your opinion


and I am sure you agree that returning Vets who are diagnosed by professionals as suffering from PTSD and those same psychiatric professionals state those Vets should not be armed in the USA

or do you now know more about those kinds of VA diagnosis than the VA does?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
I know very well real PTSD exits. However it is also diagnosed too often and the ensuing drugs are also given out too often.

Apparently we just can't trust professionals with decades of training and experience. Apparently the only way to get anything right is to consult Ron on all decisions about everything.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
up yurz wes.. My Brother was a counsleor for the VA and that is his PROFESSIONAL opinion.. As a counsleor AND one who was in the shyt. NEITHER of which youve been.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
As a scientists I am WELL aware that OPINIONS differ. I respect differing OPINIONS when they are supported by data and/or solid theory.

I respect your brother's professional OPINION... along with the other million + mental health care specialists who work with vets. But I'm sure someone else has a brother who has a different professional OPINION, right?

So, how do we determine the proper course of action? (psst, the answer lies in the studies and data... it does NOT involve asking ONE person their OPINION).


Back to (my impression of) Norton's question: You don't deny the horrors and stresses of modern (Nam to now) guerrilla warfare. Given these horrible experiences and the quickness with which modern day vets are taken from society, exposed to the horrors of war, and then thrown back into society... and the fact that WAY more of them survive than in any previous war... is it REALLY that unlikely that more of them suffer from PTSD or similar? Should we stop diagnosing them based on your brother's opinion... or at least consult your brother regarding each diagnosis?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 07:58pm PT
Stuidy this:





mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
I liked Billy Idol when I was 10.




Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Apr 2, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
PTSD has been around a long time.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
PTSD has been around a long time.

Very sad.


Anyone know...

Are soldiers with constitutions ill-suited for combat preferentially killed during war? Are soldiers with ill-suited constitutions preferentially affected by PTSD?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
John Oliver yesterday

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-april-1-2013/standing-up-for-guns
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 3, 2013 - 11:48am PT
Credit: pyro
hit "like" if u like this picture.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 3, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Every fall the ERs are visited by gumby hunters with circular wounds about the eye.

See photo for explanation.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 3, 2013 - 12:32pm PT
Ya see it every time you go to the normal range.. New gun,, check--poor form,,check--BOOM-cut eye brow,,check...













edit: Sparks NV: Illegal mexican natl Arrellano Guerrero arrested for burglary and armed robbery. Bringing the current private tally of serious crimes perpetrated by illegals/mex natls to 69% of serious crimes being comitted in the area.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
And yet gun nuts argue against requiring some kind of training or demonstration that those buying guns aren't complete morans. If they don't know how to shoot the fuking thing, what makes you think they know how to handle and store it safely? UNfukingREAL.
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