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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Yes Norton, yet those are ALL estimates. I never was called by a gun census taker, nor anyone else i know.

Undocumented guns: Black powders, antiques, or non antique but older weapons . In addition,, that same 300M number has been thrown around since Sandy hook, yet hasnt reflected one bit of the recent purchases of guns which the stores can not keep on the shelves.. So consider those estimates already behind the times.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
400,000,000 guns ( a very low figure) equals out to .00003 % of guns out there have been used in homicides annually..

400,000,000 * 0.00003% = 120 guns used in homicides annually.

I know the math is right, but the result sounds like bullshit to me... try again and show your work for full credit.

But yet the gubbmint wants to penalize the REST

How exactly are they "penalizing" the rest?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
Yes Norton, yet those are ALL estimates. I never was called by a gun census taker, nor anyone else i know.

yes Ron, of COURSE numbers are estimates, but that is the best we can do based on all reported crimes involving firearms

the fact that numbers are estimates does not mean they are not accurate, just means they are pretty good guesses since it is impossible to know the exact numbers

but I am sure you don't have any problem with those numbers anyway and neither do I, and I did not present them to support or attack anything, just thought it was interesting


anyway, it all doesn't matter does it?
maybe we will get some tougher straw buyer penalties and broader background checks, that's about it, hardly anything for anyone to object to anyway
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
Perhaps Norton. But what about the "next round"? The NDAA is stuffed full of cyber sections. Im reasonably sure they already have fine access to every gun store computer out there. Many states have their own dept of justice keeping the records as well. We have records out the wazoo. CCW, gun purchase, etc etc etc.

I still havent been told what the diff between "universal" and the current "Brady" checks is. But ive heard from those in the VA that any returning Vets with any PTSD issues could very well fall into a no go catagory for gun ownership. Sooo,, some Vet says some negative things on a forum somewhere, and the next day DHS shows up to sieze his weapons.. Could you see such things taking place?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
exuse the percentage, im working on taxes right now. But good to see yur ONTOP of things. The figure is accurate. Does it justify the crying?> HARDLY! If Cars and bars were that safe we would have a drastic decrease in deaths in this country.

In fact statistically it is a STELLAR record of ownership safety..But we dont hear that. Instead it has been a rash of knee-jerk emotions of which the news media and govt in concert attempted to USE as a lever tool. Much like tossing a flake of hay to a flock of sheep as they stampede to eat it up.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
some Vet says some negative things on a forum somewhere, and the next day DHS shows up to sieze his weapons.. Could you see such things taking place?

We can hope!

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/reports-author-kyle-fatally-shot-gun-range
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
It is only 2 orders of magnitude.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
Fairly WEAK ratio by any standards to deserve the massive amount of govt waste going on about it eh? When presented the numbers it hardly SEEMS a factual concern.. So there MUST be other agendas present to make washington interest so keen..Damm skippy there is.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Yeah, MUST be other agendas...

38% of households have guns

58% of Americans want stricter gun control legislation

100% of those who think Obama is coming for their guns are morans
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
So predictable that our lawmakers have a knee-jerk reaction to the nutcases in our society, and in doing so, punish all of the responsible gun owners in this nation.

At the same time, they give credence to these despicable murderers by giving them exactly what so many of them seek...fame and notoriety. Suddenly, the Adam Lanzas of our society are martyrs....and those out there in our society that share that same, demented mindset, are inspired to follow in those awful footsteps.

The truth of the matter is this....our society grows more and more evil by the day. The breakdown of family values, and parents allowing their children to participate in and view such horrible actions via various media (video games, movies, TV, etc.) create a generation that knows no value for human life.

Irresponsible parenting and a society and media that shoves violence down the throats of our most precious resource...our kids...is destroying our communities across this great nation.

Every ill-conceived law that the powers that be can draw up, will do nothing to stop evil. If these lawmakers want to truly make a difference, they should put their power to use against Hollywood and the companies that produce the violence that fuels a young mind to turn violent.

Above that, parents need to sack up and become exactly what a parent should be.....and train a child to love their neighbor as themselves.

Parents wield more power in this issue than any lawmaker ever will.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
Misspelling it that many times makes you wonder who the moron really is.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Soo wes,, if they want to now diagnose nealry ALL returning Vets with PTSD, and then will remove thier gun rights, what do you think that will do to recruitments for the military? I have three brothers who were all in Nam, and all have some degree of afflictions of their health. My brother Rick has been battling the effects of agent orange recently. They are ALL law abiding citizens, and my oldest brother was in the Reno PD for many years as a reserve. But under guidelines proposed, they might all have thier gun rights taken away. They nor their guns have ever been involved in an illegal activity. FAIR??>?


edit: HEY CRAG!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
Sorry to hear about your brothers Ron. A couple of my cousins served in Desert Storm. A handful of my friends were in Iraq this last go round. With the exception of 1, they are all a hollow shell of their former selves. War takes a brutal toll on the soul.

But if they are a potential threat to public safety (like Lanza, like Holmes, like Routh, like Elder, like Hasan, etc), they shouldn't have guns. Just like blind people shouldn't have cars, people with Tourette's shouldn't have microphones, and people who are sexually attracted to children should not be teachers or priests... even if they have never been involved in (or busted for) any illegal activity.


Above that, parents need to sack up and become exactly what a parent should be.....and train a child to love their neighbor as themselves.

... while keeping a gun on the nightstand, of course.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:03pm PT

"... while keeping a gun on the nightstand, of course."



The gun owners I know keep their guns in a safe manner, and teach their children right off the bat that guns are NOT to be handled by them, and that should they ever do so, their ass will be kicked up, down and sideways!

Raise your kids to understand consequences for misbehaving.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
My brothers arent hollow shells.. They are much the same as they always were. But they do have some ptsd BY DEFINITION...A definition which has been radically abused by the VA - one of my bros worked for them as a counsleor after his thirty in the service. So you see that one issue has several sides alone as far as labeling of "mentally ill" go.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Ron, I just want to get this straight... are you advocating that every adult who has not yet been convicted of a felony should be allowed essentially unlimited access to guns (2 a week), regardless of their mental health status and/or perceived potential risk to society?

But you would still like to restrict the availability of weapons based on suspected gang affiliations, right?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
to answer you second point first, No im not advocating keeping arms out of gang bangers hands.. I advocate REMOVING THE GANG BANGERS period.. Put a bounty on their scalps. (albiet short haired fuzzy ones for the most)



As far as this mentally ill thing, yes, i do believe there is room for something, but what? Dr /patient confidence isnt to be taken lightly.
When someone like the dem legislator from vegas begins to publically threaten like he did, then yes the laws should come between him and guns,, which it did.

But,, gubbmint has more than shown a desire for more control- citzen and states alike. Do you trust them to come up with a viable system when witnessing the utter failure of everything else they get their fingers into? Economy is trashed, ME is a trash pile, we finnance both sides of wars there. They over ride states rights directly in violation of the 10th amendment..

The question of mental stability, when being adjudicated by FEDs, seems a bit Ironic to say the least. Thats what worries me about that.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Then who decides?

It seems you don't trust the Dr's. Especially the ones at the VA who "radically abuse" the diagnosis of PTSD. Do you trust any Dr's... you do know they are "scientists" right?... with all their bullshit "theories" and "statistics" and "studies."

I sure as sh#t don't feel qualified. If someone told me I was too mentally unstable to own a gun or do anything that might threaten the safety of others, who am I to argue?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
Well this is my point.. If it were up to me,, you might very well fall under a siezure of arms order LMAO!;-) THANKFULLY the 2nd amendment says we all have that right in the begining!

PTSD has always been around in some form or another Wes. But how people reacted to that has changed, and in large- due to the way the VA uses blanket treatments. There are REMFs claiming PTSD now days. My brother while being a career counselor saw this first hand. His method of treatment was to make them HTFU and re-join the real world. His method was NOT to further convince them drugs and diagnosis are the norm. His preference was to keep them off BS mind drugs and to embrace the positive features they gleamed from the military. But he was one of the few. GS is loaded with those 9 to 5vers whos motto is "it all pays the same".


now imagine being a nineteen year old considering military service and contemplating being labeled mentally ill after his service. That could make recruitment centers more lonely than in 1975!!!!!!


Ive actually given the mental thing a lot of thought from all angles. STICKY WICKIT it is.. But mental illness will always exist under the radar. There IS no way around that one. Anyone can snap for any reason at any time. Once upon a time,, stupid outlaws were simply gunned down their first time out..Now we defend them , get them off on some minor techno, and watch them repeat.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
The gun owners I know keep their guns in a safe manner, and teach their children right off the bat that guns are NOT to be handled by them, and that should they ever do so, their ass will be kicked up, down and sideways!

good point

but what about the other mega million gun owners you do not know personally?

and, you can't legislate parental control, and expecting people to act responsibly also does not work

got any other ideas to if not prevent at least lessen the likely hood of mass murders?
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