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Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 07:39am PT
Someone, IN THE INDUSTRY, is selling guns to criminals. Because the criminals are buying them and they don't fall off the backs of trucks, despite what the gangster movies might suggest.

Whether that makes them criminal is irrelevant.

DMT
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 07:47am PT
Irrelavent? Um, no. Totally relavent. When they cross that line you prosecute the sh#t out of them, like theyre doing with the Safe Shot owner.

Once you decide its irrelavent, you can make blanket statements and call for blanket bans and harsh restrictions since you apparently no longer differentiate between responsible owners and the minority who are not. Thats unjust to the majority of legal owners.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:11am PT
Irrelavent? Um, no. Totally relavent.

I guess you missed the point. Just because someone is a criminal doesn't mean they aren't in the gun industry by virtue of their crime. That sort of 'logic' won't fly with me. I didn't make the ridiculous claim that NO ONE in the gun industry wants to sell guns to criminals.

Face it, there are criminals in the gun industry who will sell guns to anyone. Why pretend otherwise?

Does this paint all law abiding gun industry folk a black eye?

Maybe.... maybe....

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:12am PT
Weve been rather PRO active in policing our own.. My store goes ABOVE the ATFE requirements in its back ground checks and paper work..EACH CHECK is reviewed and initialed FOUR TIMES by management.. All the way up the line.

That's a good thing and I think you also agreed its a good thing (going above and beyond the regs...)?

DMT
jstan

climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:37am PT
Weve been rather PRO active in policing our own.. My store goes ABOVE the ATFE requirements in its back ground checks and paper work..EACH CHECK is reviewed and initialed FOUR TIMES by management.. All the way up the line.

Initialing is supposed to mean that those signing, if found non-compliant, can and will be subject to criminal charges.

This conversation no longer consists of a discussion of the Constitution. We are making progress. We have gotten past the fake issue phase.

As a result of all the dead, charges will become common, grand juries will make their findings and jurisprudence will come into play.

Finally.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:41am PT
Yeah, missed the point. Oh well. What the hell am i doing here again? Hmm...
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:11am PT
Someone, IN THE INDUSTRY, is selling guns to criminals. Because the criminals are buying them and they don't fall off the backs of trucks


Hmmm.

I guess that there is no other way a criminal could get a gun. Certainly they wouldn't want to risk doing something illegal in order to acquire a firearm because the cops would always catch them and punish them.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 11:20am PT
Hmmm you mean every gun in the hands of a criminal was stolen?

I don't believe that.

I'm simply objecting to a blanket statement that no person, company or, hell I forget the 3rd one but it doesn't matter... that no person in the firearms industry wants to sell guns to criminals. I mean, come ON!

Carry on with the gun porn. I'm sorry for intruding.

DMT
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
A man accidentally shot and killed himself while driving Wednesday afternoon down a Tennessee highway, Chattanooga TV station WTVC reported.

James Anthony McKenzie, 49, shot himself in the thigh with a .45 caliber handgun as he drove, Meigs County Detective Scott Wiggins said. A call came in for deputies to respond to a seizure, he said, but when they arrived McKenzie had apparently bled to death from the wound in his thigh.

The man was in the car alone, according to WTVC, and deputies were trying to determine how the gun discharged. McKenzie held a valid permit for the firearm.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
NOT ONE person, company, or manufacturer in the industry WANTS criminals and mentally ill to have a gun,, NOT ONE. What in idiotic statement.

You yourself acknowledge that a dealer in your own city does, is he the only exception in the entire nation?

The NRA is the de-facto public voice of the gun industry and gun owners. The NRA opposes universal background checks and tougher punishments for dealers who fail to keep appropriate records and "lose" an extraordinary quantity of guns. Unless gun owners or manufacturers speak out against this NRA policy, they will be presumed to agree with that policy, and want criminals and the mentally ill to continue have easy access to guns.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:39pm PT
Here,s a helpful hint: get your idiot politicians to bring that kind of legislation to the table without all the other attachments like mag restrictions, ammo taxes, volume limits etc. Then maybe it will pass.

http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968

The Toomey-Manchin bill contained NONE of those. Please point to ANY provision of that bill to which you object.

TE
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jun 6, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
I guess that there is no other way a criminal could get a gun. Certainly they wouldn't want to risk doing something illegal in order to acquire a firearm because the cops would always catch them and punish them.

Why could criminals risk being caught trying to steal a gun when they can just buy one online or by private sale where there is zero possibility of being caught?

I will acknowledge that one possible side-effect of the inevitable passage of universal background checks is an increase in home burglaries in search of guns. The upside of that is that people might be less inclined to fly their stupid tea party flags.

TE
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:16pm PT
Why could criminals risk being caught trying to steal a gun when they can just buy one online or by private sale

Uh,... because it doesn't cost them $ and they are criminals.


(lets see if I can troll DMT on this)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:27pm PT


DMT
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jun 6, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
How anyone could think that there is a positive correlation between America's high gun ownership and high gun murder rate is beyond me. What fanciful thinking and totally irresponsible speculation!!!
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
TE: I said maybe it would pass. As in maybe not.
Anyway, I don't have time to read it at the moment. Maybe later. But I see what you did there, challenging my beliefs in a manner that makes me look like a common "gun nut" who simply MUST disagree with every bit of new firearms regulation that comes across. You should go back and read some of my other posts if you really want to get a sense of my opinion on gun control. Or not. Whatever.

yawn
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Jun 6, 2014 - 07:28pm PT
I was looking for 22mag ammo and pistol powder. Girl up front said it was a small shipment though. Meh. Maybe i should have hoarded some before the crunch. Guess its just not that big a deal. After all, i got enough rounds to fill my elk tag.
crankster

Trad climber
Jun 6, 2014 - 08:19pm PT
Dang, Rifleman Ron, the gunNuts are getting restless. Better stock up before Hillary bans ammo sales!! Maybe pass out some free Slim Jim's to the mob.
Degaine

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 02:14am PT
Ron Anderson wrote:
And about a hundred million OTHER GUNS killed no one.. My guns killed no one, and my buddies guns killed no one.. And ALL OF mys customers guns killed no one, and all their familys guns killed no one , and the NRA members guns killed no one and the militias guns killed no one, and the 700K at local gun ranges killed no one, and -- and --- and --- etc etc etc etc etc.


Ron Anderson wrote:
Ive given my opinion more than once Gary. Its been my personal observation that gen X and baby boomers have raised monsters. Ive seen enough of them to base that opinion on facts. Laws against correcting children, children allowed to shyt their drawers until age 3 and 4 because " they have to learn in their OWN times"...That may SEEM totally ridiculous and anecdotal at best, but its also a prime example of inactive ineffective parenting. And thats where it all starts. Even our society has been redesigned so that kids must raise themselves to a very large degree..And that experiment has been one large failure imho, along with the internet being a great resource and a DEVIL at the same time.

Ron,
Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal evidence.

But if you're going to use the "100 million guns killed no one" then you'll have to explain the logic of your second statement blaming the violence on gen X and baby boomers, when one could state the exact same thing: millions and millions of other kids/young adults killed no one.

I pointed this out before when you tried to make the same contradictory, illogical argument.

It's a multi-faceted issue, that includes both guns, upbringing, mental health, etc.
Degaine

climber
Jun 7, 2014 - 02:29am PT
Ron Anderson wrote:
No i dont Gary.. In fact the proliferation of weapons - some 20 million new gun owners in just the last couple of years has actually led to a DECREASE in violent crimes over all. And has been doing so since the nineties..Those are NOT anecdotal facts but pure statistics. The occurrence of violent crimes has gone down while gun ownership has soared.


There's is no evidence of a link between the two. If you actually have proof of a causal link, I'm all ears (or rather eyes, since I'll be reading).

When you look at the crime statistics from the late eighties into the nineties and you see the drop in crime rates, it corresponds to when post Roe v Wade babies would have been in their prime teenage / early twenties crime committing years. Though taboo for the mainstream media to discuss, there are several experts (economists, crime statisticians) who have indeed hypothesized - and provided the statistical analysis and evidence - that Roe v Wade helped to avoid the birth of babies (unwanted) that would have been raised in those conditions conducive to "producing" criminals.


Ron Anderson wrote:
It is for the most, school aged kids and young adults now committing these school shootings- those that were raised by boomers and gen x-ers. As much as kids now are of the instant gratification generation, so are the parents. Little jimmy acts out in class, call it ADD and give him ridlen. Little jimmy is depressed, give him mind drugs. There was NO SUCH THING as ADD when we grew up- as we had that cured by a principles paddle.


Seriously, you don't know what you are talking about. Funny that you've accused others of blaming the "proliferation of guns" as a feel-good cop out to the problem, and then you trot out the tripe you just wrote to make yourself feel good that these mass shootings are somebody's else's problem and doing and not yours.

As I just posted, there are tens of millions of kids not committing crimes or killing people, so strike one to your argument. Next, there are millions of well behaved kids who have never received physical punishment as a means of discipline, so strike two to your argument. And finally, could you remind us of how many kids you have and your experience in raising kids? Strike three to your argument.

FYI - your post comes off as chastising us parents for not beating our kids to discipline them. You don't in seem like the kind of guy who would advocate child abuse. Might want to work on your tone and reread what you write before posting.
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