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Messages 3701 - 3720 of total 5937 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
wes, the MAIN job of the FEDS was/is to protect us from foreign invasion. Not to micro manage our lives through endless legislations and laws totally redundant for the most.


And it was a democrat legislator from Las Wages - the one threatening other legislators with violence, same one that tried to sue the state to let him back in the legislature doors and is now being booted out of the legislature. A Nevada first.
And Wes,, it was state laws that cleaned up Calis air (somewhat), not the feds..http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/01/california-sues/
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
What ONE number to local LEOs call for the exact originating buyer of a particular gun?


And yet, as far as I can tell, Brooks has never been convicted of anything... could go to another gun store and purchase a firearm?... and there is nothing stopping him?

Yeah, no need for stricter gun control laws...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
the RIGHT one duh...Here in NV the dept of puclic safety i would imagine.

As far as unkown handguns, that is ALL after the fact investigation. Which there never is a critical time element- as cases are backed up for months in advance, so research can be done by reviewing the licensed dealer listings and calling each one. Thats how that is done.


No,, Brooks was stopped by the dept of public safety and all licensed dealers have info regarding him, so the only way he can get one is the black market or a gun runner, or maybe his mum. Or go to CALI and buy one there.The LAWS only affect one of those.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
But a local LEO only need to make one call to find out the exact originating buyer from any local gun store

So how many criminals do you think use guns purchased from local gun stores?

so research can be done by reviewing the licensed dealer listings and calling each one.

Well, THAT sounds like a good use of tax payer money! What century is it?


The LAWS only affect one of those.

Which one?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Sure you could ask the feds to do it,, the wait 6 months for an answer..Guns are the biggest commodity in the world.. You think any laws new or old have/will work in keeping them out of the hands of those with bad intent? I dont.

As much as it is states rights to concoct all manner of gun laws as they now do, why is it up to FEDS to make registrys? And per the second amendment, shouldnt they just conclude everyone is or has the right to be armed?


edit Which one you asked-- Just the Mum. She hasnt broken a law UNTIL she gives the gun to sonny.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
Guns are the biggest commodity in the world.. You think any laws new or old have/will work in keeping them out of the hands of those with bad intent?

Hold up... WORLD? I thought it was genetics and/or Merkin culture?

Well, okay, since you mention the rest of the world... it works well in England and...

Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it; however, most countries similar to the United States have a more secure social network. Higher gun-related death rates can be found in developing countries and countries with political instability. However, developed countries with strict gun laws have essentially eliminated gun violence.

Rogers, Heather. "Gun Control: An International Comparison". IVN. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Kopel, David B (1993). "Japanese Gun Control". Asia Pacific Law Review. Asia Pac. L. Rev. (2): 26–52. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Adelstein, Jake (6 January 2013). "Even gangsters live in fear of Japan's gun laws". The Japan Times. Retrieved 11 February 2013.

Fisher, Max (23 July 2012). "A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths". The Atlantic. Retrieved 11 February 2013.


And per the second amendment, shouldnt they just conclude everyone is or has the right to be armed?

That is absurd. Clearly everyone does NOT have the right to be armed. If that was the intention our brilliant 4fathers would have said just that... instead they put it in the context of a "well regulated militia" which you all conveniently ignore.

Self-protection, fine, whatever, I'm not opposed to that... but that doesn't mean EVERYONE has the right to be armed. And implying a federal registry infringes on the right to have an bear arms is 100% fuking absurd.



Brooks was stopped by the dept of public safety and all licensed dealers have info regarding him, so the only way he can get one is the black market or a gun runner, or maybe his mum. Or go to CALI and buy one there.The LAWS only affect one of those.

...

She hasnt broken a law UNTIL she gives the gun to sonny.

Really? There are no laws that affect black market sales or affect a gun shop in CA selling him one?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
and yet Wes, neither one of us live in the UK or Japan..And speaking for me only, i never will.. I happen to like the country very much. I havent seen near enough of it or met all its geographically varied people. There are other countries that are gorgeous,, Norway and the like, yet i dont want to live any where else.


Violent gun use has been coming down in general trends -up in some areas down in others. That at the same time gun sales soared and CCW classes filled. The main medias, however try to paint a whole other picture knowing that fresh bait is the best and they soak it for all its worth.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
I agree, this country is great. I think it would be better if it wasn't so easy for criminals to have their relatives/friends buy guns for them.

Update... apparently FFL's only have to report when someone purchase more than 2 guns in a one week period. That is absurd considering nobody I have ever met buys more than 1 or 2 a year. Why not require reporting for those who buy more than 1-2 a year? So what if you get reported... it wouldn't be illegal, just suspicious... if you haven't done anything wrong you'd have nothing to worry about.


Yeah hedge, we understand, you want ALL guns outlawed. That is your opinion... I'm not fighting with or against you on that one. I happen to like shooting guns... I just think there should be WAY more quality control on the caliber of people who are allowed to keep and bear them.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Here ya go Wes some history on 2nd amendment phrases:


Before addressing the verbs “keep” and “bear,” we interpret their object: “Arms.” The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. Thus, the most natural reading of “keep Arms” in the Second Amendment is to “have weapons.” At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to “carry.” In numerous instances, “bear arms” was unambiguously used to refer to the carrying of weapons outside of an organized militia. Nine state constitutional provisions written in the 18th century or the first two decades of the 19th, which enshrined a right of citizens “bear arms in defense of themselves and the state” again, in the most analogous linguistic context—that “bear arms” was not limited to the carrying of arms in a militia. The phrase “bear Arms” also had at the time of the founding an idiomatic meaning that was significantly different from its natural meaning: “to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight” or “to wage war.




And i believe you refer to multiple hanguns sales in a given period which they are supposed to report,, but each sales requires the same form to be filled out. And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers, and most likely record ALL their phone calls as well. See the MANY "clandestine" and "cyber" sections of the NDAA for fundings of those.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Keep reading Ron... almost there...

The term "regulated" means "disciplined" or "trained".[132] In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

In order to be a part of a well-regulated militia, potential or existing, you should have to show some semblance of proper discipline and training. The fact that gun-nuts are complaining about waiting periods suggests a serious lack of proper discipline. Any training classes required?

And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers

BATFE... BATFE... sounds pretty efficient if they know EVERY gun in EVERY store... hmmm... isn't that one of those inefficient FEDERAL agencies?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Wes your argueing semantics that was setlled LONG ago. The 2nd amendment is/has been/ shall always be- about personal protection even FROM a tyranical govt.


edit: what do you think all those cyber and clandestine funds are for Wes- Yeah ,, i think some where there are a but load of computers analyzing away. On a daily basis. I know thats hard to beleive what with our transparent and up front gubbmint..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
You are conveniently ignoring specific words intentionally included by our founding fathers... "well regulated."

Besides, restricting the sales of firearms does nothing to infringe on your right to have and bear them.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Wes,, no one response to my question earlier.

What is the diff between universal and brady checks done currently?

Many murderers were never felons previous to their deeds. How to stop them with laws?? Ya Cant..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
Many murderers would have never committed a murder if they hadn't had a gun.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
It's a Mexican Standoff
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
no Wes,, they would have used a rock, stick, board, knife, arrow, gas or chainsaw. Which sums up the history of homicide in homo-sapien.. Weve developed, and so has the ways of murder. That is why the throngs of both major parties have sieged upon the gun stores. Everyone of them will tell you that Obama has been their number one salesman for quite some time. And they arent kidding.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
No sane society sanctions a thousand murders a month - as many people as we lost on 9/11 every 3 months.

We can turn that around. Murder rates are going up and down and stuff, you know, depending on how you look at it... there's always two sides to the truth.

One thing is clear, we need more people with more guns and no interference from the FEDS... you know, since they are the ones law enforcement ACTUALLY calls to trace guns used in crimes.

they would have used a rock, stick, board, knife, arrow, gas or chainsaw.

Do you ever tire of the irrelevant and absurd?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Dont be silly Wes,, if i wanted to kill some one but didnt have a gun, id use a knife and stab their lung. If i didnt have a knife but a rock was close, id use that to cave in their nose. It there wasnt a rock but a handy club you bet id use that - to bludgeon them bub.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Here's how I see this discussion


EVERYONE, including Ron, agrees that we do need more and better gun control legislation.

For example, we all agree that we support the current likely proposed bill which will include much tougher penalties for straw buyers and also will increase background checks.

I don't see how any reasonable person could be opposed to either one of those.


Now, where the discussion gets contentious is when Joe Hedge insists that the ONLY way to deal with mass murder in the US is by flat outlawing guns.

This is like saying the only way to deal with tooth decay is for everyone to have all their teeth pulled out. It is so obviously unrealistic and unlikely that such talk not only does not help the conversation in any constructive way but it also raises emotions in response that shut off talk.

But Hedge persists anyway,
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
if i wanted to kill some one but didnt have a gun, id use a knife and stab their lung.

Yes, if you are one of the few who actually plan to kill a person by whatever means necessary, sure. But that would make you a psychopath.

We both know that is not how most murders are committed.

How many LEO's are killed in the line of duty with a rock or knife?



Norton is the only sane person involved here, present company included. Thanks Norton.
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