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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
Here ya go Wes some history on 2nd amendment phrases:


Before addressing the verbs “keep” and “bear,” we interpret their object: “Arms.” The term was applied, then as now, to weapons that were not specifically designed for military use and were not employed in a military capacity. Thus, the most natural reading of “keep Arms” in the Second Amendment is to “have weapons.” At the time of the founding, as now, to “bear” meant to “carry.” In numerous instances, “bear arms” was unambiguously used to refer to the carrying of weapons outside of an organized militia. Nine state constitutional provisions written in the 18th century or the first two decades of the 19th, which enshrined a right of citizens “bear arms in defense of themselves and the state” again, in the most analogous linguistic context—that “bear arms” was not limited to the carrying of arms in a militia. The phrase “bear Arms” also had at the time of the founding an idiomatic meaning that was significantly different from its natural meaning: “to serve as a soldier, do military service, fight” or “to wage war.




And i believe you refer to multiple hanguns sales in a given period which they are supposed to report,, but each sales requires the same form to be filled out. And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers, and most likely record ALL their phone calls as well. See the MANY "clandestine" and "cyber" sections of the NDAA for fundings of those.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Keep reading Ron... almost there...

The term "regulated" means "disciplined" or "trained".[132] In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court stated that "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training."

In order to be a part of a well-regulated militia, potential or existing, you should have to show some semblance of proper discipline and training. The fact that gun-nuts are complaining about waiting periods suggests a serious lack of proper discipline. Any training classes required?

And BATFE most likely knows everything any gun store has in their computers

BATFE... BATFE... sounds pretty efficient if they know EVERY gun in EVERY store... hmmm... isn't that one of those inefficient FEDERAL agencies?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
Wes your argueing semantics that was setlled LONG ago. The 2nd amendment is/has been/ shall always be- about personal protection even FROM a tyranical govt.


edit: what do you think all those cyber and clandestine funds are for Wes- Yeah ,, i think some where there are a but load of computers analyzing away. On a daily basis. I know thats hard to beleive what with our transparent and up front gubbmint..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
You are conveniently ignoring specific words intentionally included by our founding fathers... "well regulated."

Besides, restricting the sales of firearms does nothing to infringe on your right to have and bear them.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Wes,, no one response to my question earlier.

What is the diff between universal and brady checks done currently?

Many murderers were never felons previous to their deeds. How to stop them with laws?? Ya Cant..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
Many murderers would have never committed a murder if they hadn't had a gun.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
It's a Mexican Standoff
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
no Wes,, they would have used a rock, stick, board, knife, arrow, gas or chainsaw. Which sums up the history of homicide in homo-sapien.. Weve developed, and so has the ways of murder. That is why the throngs of both major parties have sieged upon the gun stores. Everyone of them will tell you that Obama has been their number one salesman for quite some time. And they arent kidding.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
No sane society sanctions a thousand murders a month - as many people as we lost on 9/11 every 3 months.

We can turn that around. Murder rates are going up and down and stuff, you know, depending on how you look at it... there's always two sides to the truth.

One thing is clear, we need more people with more guns and no interference from the FEDS... you know, since they are the ones law enforcement ACTUALLY calls to trace guns used in crimes.

they would have used a rock, stick, board, knife, arrow, gas or chainsaw.

Do you ever tire of the irrelevant and absurd?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
Dont be silly Wes,, if i wanted to kill some one but didnt have a gun, id use a knife and stab their lung. If i didnt have a knife but a rock was close, id use that to cave in their nose. It there wasnt a rock but a handy club you bet id use that - to bludgeon them bub.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
Here's how I see this discussion


EVERYONE, including Ron, agrees that we do need more and better gun control legislation.

For example, we all agree that we support the current likely proposed bill which will include much tougher penalties for straw buyers and also will increase background checks.

I don't see how any reasonable person could be opposed to either one of those.


Now, where the discussion gets contentious is when Joe Hedge insists that the ONLY way to deal with mass murder in the US is by flat outlawing guns.

This is like saying the only way to deal with tooth decay is for everyone to have all their teeth pulled out. It is so obviously unrealistic and unlikely that such talk not only does not help the conversation in any constructive way but it also raises emotions in response that shut off talk.

But Hedge persists anyway,
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
if i wanted to kill some one but didnt have a gun, id use a knife and stab their lung.

Yes, if you are one of the few who actually plan to kill a person by whatever means necessary, sure. But that would make you a psychopath.

We both know that is not how most murders are committed.

How many LEO's are killed in the line of duty with a rock or knife?



Norton is the only sane person involved here, present company included. Thanks Norton.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
I was threatened with a chain saw once.

We are talking a band aid on a dry scab here. WHY do YOU think the brady check is interested SPECIFICALLY in hispanics?

Do you think a third world influence culturally here has something to do with those homicide numbers in a large way? Knowing full well that is the way it is in their home cutures? I can tell you directly, that betwen where i am and the bay area, most defnitly, that is the case.

and as a pre-emptive move,, im NOT talking about those that migrate here to be Americans, rather those that migrate here to bring their culture here.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
HUMANS have it in their make up, yes indeed.. Just anger a mother of a small child by threatening said child, and youll most likely see that beast emerge. Love, and hate strike that beast and so does want and lust. Whats not to understand about that.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
But now your saying it in someone else's culture.

Why would you need to make a distinction if it's in our as well.

BTW, equating the desire of a woman to protect your children with the desire of a man to commit violent crime is ridiculous.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
many cultures are FAR worse than ours. That includes any and all central and south American countries. The epicenter of homicide.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
just for you mono. since you obvioulsy missed me qualifying that further.



"Love, and hate strike that beast and so does want and lust. Whats not to understand about that."
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
And since it's worse somewhere else, we shouldn't make changes here.


And just for you Anderson:

Equating a mother's care for a child to violent crime is funny as hell.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
I was threatened with a chain saw once.

So what? I've been threatened with 4 guns, 2 bats, a few hammer, fists, a broom, a car, skateboards, and a fork. The ONLY ones that were likely to kill me from a split second lapse in judgement... the guns.

How hard is it to get away from someone with a chainsaw? I mean YOU did it, so it couldn't be THAT hard, right? I don't hear of many chainsaw murders.

WHY do YOU think the brady check is interested SPECIFICALLY in hispanics?

Just guessing here... maybe to cross reference names and sh#t with Mexican authorities?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 28, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
Mono,what "changes".. resticting the rights of law-abiding innocent peoples liberties? Then no.

Now YOU answer my question: Do you think third world influences here are responsible for much of the homicides?
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