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Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/FEMA_concentration_camps

That's some entertaining stuff!
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:48pm PT
I thought that the "compromise" was limited to excluding "family, friends and neighbors" sales from background checks, but the text of the revised bill allows many private sales without background checks, with enough of a loophole to drive a whole truckload of guns through.

Original Bill
It shall be unlawful for any person who is not licensed under this chapter to transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless....
Some exceptions for family etc., but tight.

New bill
It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed importer to complete the transfer of a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, if such transfer occurs(A) at a gun show or event, on the curtilage thereof; or
(B) pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.

So as long as the criminal community knows you are a person who sells guns and asks no questions, provided you don't advertise, they can get all the guns they like. There are more than enough "collectors" out there wiling to make money.

Sausage making I suppose, but with all increased penalties for straw purchases gone too, it sounds to me that Sen Toomey is still dancing with them what brung him.

TE
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 12, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
Ricky

climber
Sometimes LA
Apr 14, 2013 - 11:57am PT

The hatred is only a side effect.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
Fri Night had Carson Sherrifs in pursuit of the above "undocumented immigrant" .. Including a Sheriffs helo which hovered over and around my buddys house for nearly an hour fri night.

The man was pulled over for a traffic stop due to being in a stolen car, then rammed the sheriffs car -the pursuit ensued. This coming shortly after another "undocumented immigrant" stole an NHP cruiser during a stop.. Problems are getting more serious by the day.

Now for all of you that will now chime in calling me some racist: if you call criminal illegals in gangs a race,, then yes ill be a racist.



What does this have to do with increased penalties for straw purchasers or tighter regulation on gun sales? Other than the obvious fact that he could currently have his younger cousin buy him a gun at your local gun shop with MINIMAL INCONVENIENCE.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
That has EVERYTHING to do with guns Wes.

I didn't ask what it had to do with guns.

I acknowledge your argument for keeping guns for self-protection. The world is a dangerous place. I have no problem with that. The more sh#t like that goes down, the more some people will think they need guns. But the more guns that EASILY make their way into the streets, the more serious the outcome will be.

How do harsher penalties for straw purchasers or tighter restrictions on gun sales change any of that? Do people really need to buy a gun a month for self-protection? Do they really need to get a gun within 3 days of deciding they need it? Are those the people you REALLY want to have a gun? Is it really too much to ask that We The People keep track of who is buying and selling killing machines and at least TRY to make sure they are not homicidal maniacs or closely associated with known criminals?

Harsher penalties for straw purchasers or tighter restrictions on gun sales would MILDLY INCONVENIENCE legitimate gun owners, at worst. Isn't that worth potentially stopping (any number) of guns from EASILY entering the streets through the current system?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
We also have a glaring problem of Dr/patient confidentiality in dealing with those taking "mind drugs". All of this covered by the Constitution.

Really? Are you sure? There was a SCOTUS decision some 40 years ago... but I doubt anyone could interpret that as absolute.

First Google reslut:
For example, in Whalen v. Roe, 429 U.S. 589 (1977), a group of physicians joined patients in a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a New York statute that required physicians to report to state authorities the identities of patients receiving Schedule II drugs (controlled substances). The physicians alleged that such information was protected by the doctor-patient confidentiality, while the patients alleged that such disclosure was an invasion of their constitutional right to privacy. The Supreme Court did not disagree with the lower court’s finding that “the intimate nature of a patient’s concern about his bodily ills and the medication he takes … are protected by the constitutional right to privacy.” However, the high court concluded (after balancing the state’s interests) that “Requiring such disclosures to representatives of the State having responsibility for the health of the community, does not automatically amount to an impermissible invasion of privacy.”

http://healthcare.uslegal.com/doctor-patient-confidentiality/constitutional-right-to-privacy/

If representatives have the responsibility for the health of the community, they can (and should) get relevant information... like if the gun purchaser in question is a homicidal maniac or on mind drugs.


So now,, those folks taking those drugs and being law abiding citizens wont want their guns taken away. They will instead get their prescrips through other means.

Then they would no longer be law abiding citizens, now would they?

Or they will stop taking them and get "declared" cured.

You don't get declared cured just because you stop taking your meds. That's silly.

If YOU were on lets say,, paxil, and having no troubles, no law infractions and owned a gun which you enjoyed shooting from time to time, do you think your rights should be taken away for that gun ownership?

If say paxil was determined to cause homicidal tendencies in others, then YES, I would expect my gun rights to be taken away... just like if ANY OTHER medication caused me to shout out random profanities I would expect my right to free speech in public to be taken away.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
so then if you were taking paxil, yet never had thoughts of murderous intent- were law abiding and in control, youd willingly give up your guns.?

Yep. I've heard stories of people on those drugs (prozac especially). They do quite well for a while, be it weeks or months, and then BAM... they have 5 people talking inside their head saying all kinds of fuked up sh#t.

I absolutely believe anyone diagnosed with certain mental disorders (by say a few independent Drs to be sure?) should definitely have their guns taken away... especially if they choose to take mind fuk drugs as treatment.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
The Assassination Of Two Texas Prosecutors Is Unprecedented And Terrifying

They caught the guy,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2308824/Eric-Williams-Disgraced-court-official-charged-murders-Texas-district-attorney-wife-assistant.html

Williams was convicted in March 2012 by the district attorney's office of burglary of a building and theft by a public servant, the station reported.

Surveillance cameras caught Williams taking computer equipment from a county building. As part of his appeal, Williams claimed McClelland and Hasse didn't like him.

He was sentenced to two months of probation and lost his justice of the peace position as a result of the conviction.

Sorry to burst your "progressive" bubble.

No political agenda involved at all.

Go look for another straw man to burn.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
jghedge writes:

"You're basically describing South Central."



Does this look like South Central to you?



It sure as hell doesn't smell like South Central. It smells like orange blossoms right now.

That's my 'hood. My place is hidden in the trees in the lower-left.

The ghetto-birds ( helicopters ) make their way out here from San Bernardino, and shine their lights all over the place periodically.

Sometimes the helicopter uses a loudspeaker to shout something like "THIS IS SERGEANT STEDANKO OF THE SAN BERNARDINO SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT WE KNOW WHERE YOU ARE COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP ME LLAMO SGT STEDANKO DE LOS SHERIFFS DE SAN BERNARDINO VENGA AQUI CON TUS MANOS ARIBE IMMEDIAMENTE".

jghedge goes on:

"Then why live there? ... Why not just leave? Why live there, if it's as bad as you describe?"


I like it here. That's why.



That's my neighbor's place lower-left. San Jacinto on the right horizon, San Gorgonio on the left.

Looking out my back door:



I'm backed-up to a privately owned, open to everyone, free, non-motorized recreation area and nature preserve. Owned by one guy. Several square miles of wild hills, which connects to huge tracts of public lands stretching from here to the Colorado River.

My place is a "hard target", chiefly because I'm here, so I've never seen any of the criminales the cops are looking for.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
Wes,, there are many doctors out there that will say anything you pay them too. Just ask professional athletes. So yes,, you can be "cured" with a wisp of a pen.

With that wisp comes responsibility. If a particular Dr's wisp results in that patient being "cured" and getting guns when they shouldn't and eventually them committing homicide, the Dr's records could easily be evaluated and the Dr. held liable if negligent.

I held our neighbor's head as she took her last breath after running her car into a tree at 50 mph. She was right in front of me when she started accelerating and veered off into the tree. I was the only one (out of ~10) that filled out a police report, likely because I was the first one there and saw the whole thing. Apparently she was on some heavy meds for cancer. I was questioned by an attorney for 45 minutes regarding what I saw in that brief moment. Neighborhood gossip says the family was suing the prescribing Dr. for inadequate warnings regarding the side effects of the medication. I doubt that is uncommon. The situation you propose seems WAY more straightforward.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
You ought to move out here to The I.E., jg. We don't have any gangs in my neighborhood, and since my neighbor's kid killed himself, we don't have any crime here either.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
It is clear that jhedge is a dick here, especially to you Ron. Why ask him to do anything when you know he won't? Why don't you just ignore him when he keeps coming at you? I mostly ignore TGT and his ilk... it really isn't that hard. Besides, with jhedge being suck a dick, I fear for my role in the supertopo community. Please don't provoke him or I will have to find another forum to waste my time.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Apr 14, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Weschrist writes:

"I absolutely believe anyone diagnosed with certain mental disorders (by say a few independent Drs to be sure?) should definitely have their guns taken away... especially if they choose to take mind fuk drugs as treatment."



Damn straight!

Here's the happy tale of one Anthony Orban. "Happy" only because Orban's dead, and his fat little prison guard partner in crime is now locked up in the same prison system he once "worked" in. But the poor victim still has to live with what happened for the rest of her life.



This guy was a Marine Officer, and a Police Detective, so he obviously knew right from wrong, and had been screened and checked out in every way immagineable. Then one day, he lost his mind ( or he lost the grip on a mind that was already shot ).

http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/2010/04/anthony_nicholas_orban_rape_de.php

In court - under oath - he blamed Zoloft for his freakout.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/21/local/la-me-rape-zoloft-20120621

I'm with Weschrist here. Anyone on these psychotropic drugs needs to be on the list of Prohibitted Persons.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2013 - 04:46pm PT
My point was that gun nuts were killing law officials, just like in Mogadishu.

Jihadi nuts with suicide vests.

Nine militants attacked the court complex, and that six of them detonated suicide vests, said Interior Minister Abdikarim Hussein Guled. The three others were shot and killed during the assault, he said. Guled said he couldn't immediately provide an overall death toll.


Yah, the homegrown jihadis just use knives.

http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/04/06/two-christians-beheaded-in-new-jersey-by-muslim-man-media-silent/
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 14, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=9062720
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 14, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
So now,, anyone taking these drugs will naturally "hear voices" in defense of their crimes.

If We The People make it illegal for mentally unstable people (on or off mind fuk drugs) to have guns, "hearing voices" will be irrelevant. The gun should be traceable back to the last legal source and blame can be placed accordingly. Why would any sane person have a problem with that... unless of course you are in the business of supplying guns to crazy people?



BTW, you gun nuts MUST see how SILLY you look when you claim gun stats from the UK are irrelevant to guns in the US, but bring up suicide bombers in Mogadishu as if they somehow do. Right? You do see that, don't you?
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Apr 14, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
"undocumented immigrant"

Ron, why would we need more border patrol, the ones that want in illegally
will come anyway despite the law. Why more, tougher immigration laws, we have enough already.

Isn't that your stance on no more gun laws?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Apr 14, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
In court - under oath - he blamed Zoloft for his freakout.


The audacious frailty in the "Zoloft made me do it" defense is that there is lack of scientific evidence that depression is caused by serotonin imbalance or that Zoloft works to correct any such imbalance.

Thirty million Zoloft prescriptions are written every year.

I'm afraid without tangible confirmation that psychotropic drugs induce violent behavior, depriving an individual of firearms on that basis alone, will fail legally.

Harry Reid's decision to discard an assault weapons ban from a gun control package is regrettable. What realistic or practical civilian need warrants sustained, high volume fire?

Personal defense? Hunting?

Criminals and psychopaths can exploit assault weapons to do great harm...in the possession of the law adiding, they're little more than dangerous toys...toys that can be stolen for ominous purpose.

Certainly, we want firearm ownership denied the unbalanced and criminal. But abandoning the practical argument against assault weapons and giving consequence to the psychotropic drug argument (vis a vis drugs impelling violence, being fuzzy and nebulous) simply won't achieve that result.
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