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Messages 3441 - 3460 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jghedge

climber
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
"That's like saying a felon can find a way to buy a gun without going through a background check ( gunshow? ), and still legally own the gun."

Convicted felons have fewer rights

Illegal aliens haven't been convicted of anything

Can't deny constitutional rights to anyone without due process, as the constitution says
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
jghedge writes:

"Convicted felons have fewer rights"


Not as far as guns go, they don't.

Felons and illegal aliens are both on the exact same shitlist. They're both known as "prohibited persons" for all firearm purposes.

See the Gun Control Act of 1968 if you want the truth as to whether or not illegal aliens can legally possess a firearm.

Don't listen to jghedge. Guns isn't his strong subject.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
"If one found an illegal alien with a gun, what act would apply?"


Illegal weapons possession. It's taken seriously, as in prison time.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Here's the Poster Boy for that legal application:

Emmanuel Huitron-Guizar

Google his name.

You're right about dishonorably discharged. That's seen as the same as a felony.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Feb 20, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
Yeah, I looked it up. Dishonorable discharge is very serious, probably involving military prison time till discharge. There are lesser unfavorable disharge status for more minor conduct.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 20, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/identify-prohibited-persons.html

The Gun Control Act (GCA) makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms. 18 USC 922(g). Transfers of firearms to any such prohibited persons are also unlawful. 18 USC 922(d).

These categories include any person:

...

who is an illegal alien;
jghedge

climber
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
"Don't listen to jghedge. Guns isn't his strong subject."

Nice try, but I wasn't saying that convicts have fewer rights than illegal aliens, just fewer than US citizens.

Stick to playing dumb, Chaz - you come across more sincere that way.
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
Hey! Tuesday morning on the 5 I came THAT close to being martyred for the 2nd Amendment! Oh joy! How special!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 20, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
explain...
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
I'll stick to my asessment of jghedge. Guns isn't his strong subject.

He doesn't own any guns. He doesn't shoot. He comes off just like a non-climbing LEB spewing on a climber's forum when he shares his low-information opinions on guns.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Hey, ^that sounds like Rong talking about invasive species, resource protection, and... well, just about anything other than guns or stuffing dead things.
jghedge

climber
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
"I'll stick to my asessment of jghedge. Guns isn't his strong subject."


You got stomped into the dirt yesterday with your nonsense about the UK always having the same gun laws as us, and being a more pacific society than ours - both totally wrong, and disproven by facts. So much for making "assessments" - try bring facts, logic, history and critical reasoning to the debate, not "assessments".



Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Feb 21, 2013 - 05:36am PT
explain...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-oc-shootings-20130220,0,2319028.story

What an honor it would be to die for the misinterpreted 2nd Amendment rights of gun nuts.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 21, 2013 - 07:54am PT
The price of freedumb Gary. God bless our guns!
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 21, 2013 - 09:31am PT
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/identify-prohibited-persons.html

The Gun Control Act (GCA) makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms. 18 USC 922(g). Transfers of firearms to any such prohibited persons are also unlawful. 18 USC 922(d).

These categories include any person:

...

who is an illegal alien;

I stand corrected, although legal definition of an "illegal alien", would require that to be determined as fact in court.

But did you read the rest?

...who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;

How many avid gun nuts posting here does that exclude? Maybe it depends on what your definition of "is", is.

TE
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 21, 2013 - 10:05am PT
Gun control means hitting what you shoot at.

That makes my gun a controlled substance (that I am addicted to shooting).


So the law contradicts itself.
(that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 23, 2013 - 09:16am PT
It looks like that little legal discovery has ended discussion on this thread.

Maybe Mr. LaPierre is right, all we need is enforcement of current laws - make peeing in a cup part of that background check.

TE
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 23, 2013 - 09:42am PT
The now ubiquitous psychiatric medications are legal for those who have a prescription. Just need to change the language a little..

..who is a user of or addicted to any controlled substance that has been shown to alter the discretion of the user, or lives with someone who is.


But I guess that would mean beer. Don't worry, we will figure this out!
jghedge

climber
Feb 24, 2013 - 10:03am PT
Excellent editorial that gets at the heart of why gun control laws don't address the real issue:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/opinion/sunday/violent-drunk-and-holding-a-gun.html?_r=0


Violent, Drunk and Holding a Gun

Multiple mass shootings by deranged young men have made keeping firearms out of the hands of mentally ill people a big part of the gun debate.

Given the enormity of those crimes, that is understandable. Federal law does, in fact, prohibit gun ownership by mentally ill people if a judge has found them to be dangerous or they have been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. President Obama has also issued executive orders to ensure that federal background checks include complete information on people barred from owning guns for mental health reasons and to clarify that federal law allows health care providers to report patients’ credible threats of violence to the authorities.

But a focus on mass murder, while critical, does not get at the broader issue of gun violence, including the hundreds of single-victim murders, suicides, nonfatal shootings and other gun crimes that occur daily in the United States. And focusing on the mentally ill, most of whom are not violent, overlooks people who are at demonstrably increased risk of committing violent crimes but are not barred by federal law from buying and having guns. These would include people who have been convicted of violent misdemeanors including assaults, and those who are alcohol abusers. Unless guns are also kept from these high-risk people, preventable gun violence will continue.

VIOLENT MISDEMEANORS Federal law prohibits felons from buying and possessing firearms; it also bars people convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence. But it permits gun purchase and ownership by people convicted of other violent misdemeanors, defined variously under state laws, including assault and battery, brandishing a weapon or making open, credible threats of violence. Many people convicted of violent misdemeanors were originally charged with felonies but then convicted of lesser charges because of plea bargains. And research shows that people who have been convicted of any misdemeanors and who then legally buy a handgun are more likely to commit crimes after that gun purchase than buyers with no prior convictions.

California provides a case study. It changed its law in 1991 to prohibit individuals convicted of violent misdemeanors from buying guns for 10 years after the conviction. Before that, a study showed that gun buyers with even a single prior misdemeanor conviction were nearly five times as likely as those with no criminal history to be arrested for gun-related or other violent crimes. After the law was enacted, a significant decrease in arrests was attributed to the denial of gun sales to people with misdemeanor records.

ALCOHOL ABUSE Federal law prohibits the purchase and possession of guns by anyone who is “an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance.” But the statute ignores alcohol abuse. That is also a mistake. The evidence linking alcohol abuse and gun-related violence is compelling. One study found that subjects who had ever been in trouble at work for drinking or were ever hospitalized for alcohol abuse were at increased risk of committing homicide and suicide.

Other studies also suggest that alcohol abuse is a factor in the association between gun ownership and the criminal justice system. The difficulty in policing alcohol abuse for purposes of gun control is that there is no precise definition of abuse. Pennsylvania, however, provides a useful example. It bars gun purchases by those who have been convicted of three or more drunken driving offenses within a five-year period. That criterion identifies drinkers with demonstrated tendencies toward recklessness and lawbreaking.

President Obama has instructed the Justice Department to review the federal prohibitions on gun ownership and to make legislative and executive recommendations “to ensure dangerous people aren’t slipping through the cracks.” The answers are already out there.


Also some excellent comments in the reader's comments section - informed, thoughtful and rational discussion, as apart from the neanderthal-level rantings from the gun nuts on this thread.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 24, 2013 - 10:45am PT
Hedge, you and that article make an excellent argument for the prohibition of alcohol. Oh wait, we tried that already.

Take the example raised there of someone who has three DUI's in five years. That person is a lot more likely to commit vehicular homicide than to shoot someone. So let's pull their drivers license. But oh, they drive anyway, and they still drive while drunk.

So your solution is to restrict my freedom and liberty in a lame attempt to feel like you are in some kind of control, since you are virtually powerless to influence the behavior of drunks and nuts.

I had to read a book in Jr. High about this kind of thinking. It was written by George Orwell. I recommend it.
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