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Messages 3441 - 3460 of total 5825 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
It's not really possible to compare gun murder rate between two countries where one, guns are outlawed and few are owned privately, and the other where there are nearly enough guns to arm the entire population. Which is why I was checking out the overall murder rate

of course without guns, the gun murder rate is zero. I was asking about your opinion of what will happen to the total murder rate.

scott
WBraun

climber
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Fact: !!!

Americans should NEVER give up their guns.

Never.

Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.

If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Werner has spoken......



and lots of places worse than here.



UNODC murder rates most recent year
Subregion Rate Count Region
Eastern Africa 21.9 69,344 Africa
Middle Africa 20.8 25,330 Africa
Northern Africa 5.9 12,276 Africa
Southern Africa 30.5 17,484 Africa
Western Africa 15.4 44,671 Africa
Caribbean 16.9 7,001 Americas
Central America 28.5 44,997 Americas
Northern America 3.9 13,558 Americas
South America 20.0 79,039 Americas
Central Asia 6.1 3,667 Asia
Eastern Asia 1.3 19,828 Asia
South-Eastern Asia 6.0 34,787 Asia
Southern Asia 3.8 63,102 Asia
Western Asia 2.6 5,736 Asia
Eastern Europe 6.4 19,072 Europe
Northern Europe 1.5 1,432 Europe
Southern Europe 1.4 1,669 Europe
Western Europe 1.0 1,852 Europe
Australasia 1.0 268 Oceania
Melanesia 11.1 898 Oceania
Micronesia 2.5 10 Oceania
Polynesia 0.1 3 Oceania
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:36am PT
thanks Ron for having my back a bit!

scott
saghi

Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Fact: !!!

Americans should NEVER give up their guns.

Never.

Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.

If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......

This is my main reason for being on the "gun nut" side. I have very few guns and even less ammunition. I enjoy shooting and my wife does too. We do not need guns and, provided there are no drastic changes, could live without them and be perfectly safe.

The government is out of control and DOES NOT have our best interest in mind. If you can't see that, you are blind. It is illegal to murder and for a violent criminal to own a gun. That is as much say as we should allow the government to have about this issue. The amount of murders we have is a problem with US! It is not because we have too much freedom or don't have enough laws.

Until something changes with our government, I will always be on whatever side limits the government the most.

I have no sources for this OPINION so go ahead and call me an idiot "gun nut".

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
"and lots of places worse than here."

Credit: apogee
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Why is it so hard to understand facts?

1) Violent crime is correlated with population density.
2) Violent crime committed with guns is more likely to result in murder.
3) Most criminals get their guns through straw sales.
4) Stricter federal gun regulations will reduce the number of guns available to criminals through straw sales.

Pretty fuking simple.

Nobody has answered my questions yet... how many guns do you buy every year? Who needs to purchase a new gun every month? Why not cut the limit to one gun purchase a year and cut the potential for straw sales by 1/12? Who here would that affect?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
jghedge writes:

"If you have no sources, what are you basing your opinion on?"




That's funny, and you probably can't even see it!

It appears Saghi's done his own thinking, and come to his own conclusions on this one. By constantly citing someone else's opinions ("sources"), jghedge comes across like he's letting others do his thinking for him.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Funny, when gun murder rates don't support your view, they become opinions.

Getting facts from other sources is not letting others think for you.

So just cite yourself as your source, so you can claim to be an "independent thinker".
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/embed/9RABZq5IoaQ?feature=player_embedded



Wanna throw the racist card again? Ill bet none of you knew the NRA was helping fight racism..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Okay, okay mono... :)

1) "Therefore, the Jacobs hypothesis, which was developed in distinctly dense urban areas of the Northeastern U.S., is supported in very diverse settings. Importantly, this environmental characteristic population density predicted more of the variance in violent crime than the majority of the other population characteristics in the model."

Christans and Speer, 2005. Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 113-127

see also: Jacobs, J. (1961). The life and death of great American cities. New York: Random House.

2) http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf#page=27

3) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

4) Webster and Vernick, 2013. Reducing gun violence in America. The Johns Hopkins University Press.
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
It's not a matter of what anyone needs. The question of need is irrelevant. We are free to buy whatever, whenever as long as it's legal. The only burden when buying a gun is that said guns won't be used illegally or transferred to someone who couldn't legally purchase. It's wrong to assume that most lawful citizens are straw sales people. Once someone has passed all the checks and done all the paperwork, they are free to purchase. We can't assume they are up to no good. Especially since 99% of legal owners don't use their gun for murder, coupled with the fact that about 75% of gun murders are criminals killing other criminals, as well as the fact that there are far more murders without a gun

Forming an opinion or hypothesis isn't such a bad thing. It's part of the scientific method. Fact is that one day there were no airplanes that could fly, and the next day there were. What if they said, oh, we have no facts that a plane could fly and stopped thinking and working on it.

Medieval Ireland is proud that they have no murder by sword, while England sword murders are high. They just squash heads with stones in ireland, because there are no swords.

murder is the same awful thing no matter how it's carried out. Some take more offense when a gun is used, but the end result is the same.

scott



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Yes Scott,, its called INNOCENT until proven guilty.. A rather nice form of law.. Only severly handicapped types think otherwise.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
You wonder if anybody has changed their mind over the course of this discussion. Wait. No you don't.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
It's not a matter of what anyone needs. The question of need is irrelevant. We are free to buy whatever, whenever as long as it's legal.

And that is why you will lose and look like a fool doing it. Your blind desire for presumed freedoms you don't need or use, but others clearly exploit, results in an unnecessarily high rate of gun related crime and murder. Limiting the number of guns you can buy over a period of time does not infringe on your right to keep and bear arms.

Go ahead and get your panties all bunched up about weapons bans, high cap mag limitation, etc. You have a semi-legitimate (but incredibly outdated) argument when the government attempts to make it illegal for you to keep and bear those. But restrictions on gun sales has nothing to do with your right to keep and bear arms.

It's wrong to assume that most lawful citizens are straw sales people.

Nobody said most lawful citizens are "straw sales people." That is more made up fairy tale bullsh#t... like "If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US" It reminds me of play time with my 8 year old niece... "what if tomorrow we woke up and the world was made of chocolate!"

It is a FACT that most criminals get their guns from "family or friends" through straw purchases. It only takes 100 criminals with a clean record to supply the 1200 guns a year used in all crimes committed in California.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
So not a word about the vid i posted this am...The NRA fighting the good fight- since conception.. Gun laws being for ALL good law abiding people.

So for you anti gunnuterz there are several states considering NO PERMIT CCW laws like NH..

The CCW laws are actually geting better too- like the qualifying with one hand gun that covers all other styles of hand guns.

And prices are already coming back down for those so dastardly assualt rifles. You know, the ones CONGRESS backed away from like scalded dogs they are..


And of course,, Obama promising reforms and his "team" ran by double barrel biden seems to only have come up with "shooting those barrels off through the doorway at night" routine.


Double barrel Biden,, and then,, of course, Feinstien-- a PTSD victim with so much obvious biased as to disqualify her from ANY logical legislation.. Quite the team allright-- of whacko leftys loosing big time. An ANTI gun knut is the very same as a westboro kook. Both to be ignored, as evidenced by congress.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
Your video is absurd. Like the NRA of 1960's has ANYTHING to do with the NRA of today. Give me a fuking break.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
Yur a RACIST!!!!!!!!!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Yur an idiot.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
No CCW needed bill passed in Utah and is sitting on the Governor's desk.

3 options

veto (political death in this state)

sign into law

not sign, becomes law anyway



My guess is #3.
Get ready for legal concealed carry in Zion without a permit.
Shootouts over who gets a route? lol
Messages 3441 - 3460 of total 5825 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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