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A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
Mechrist, the map wasn't misleading. I stated that I was comparing murder rate around the world as a whole, which guns are a part of, to show that the US is on the lower end of the scale. I thought it was relevant to a conversation about murder

Yes it is possible to buy grenades and explosives, through underground markets. they aren't used in as many crimes because ammo for a 9mm is cheap and readily available and a pistol is easy to conceal and use. Just the same reason rifles aren't used in many crimes and only kill 350 or so a year.

***
"Criminals find the weaker, the unprotected.

How about self defense uses with guns... a minimum or 600,000 times a year, a criminal act is thwarted by a lawful gun toting citizen.

Please reconcile those two statements."

**
ok, easy... criminals don't easily have access to a database of gun owners. Not all criminals are smart enough and have the ability to pick and choose the weak and unprotected.


"Anyone here think that the Chinese citizens would have wanted some firearms to protect themselves from the government back when they went communist? between 40 and 60 million slaughtered and starved by their gov.

Anyone here think armed citizens would even slow down the US military if the US "went communist?"

*
I'm not talking about the US in that one. The fact remains, China slaughtered it's own defenseless population. Russia did the same thing. I'd rather have the right to arms, no matter my chances. I'm sure the British didn't think the colonies stood a chance.


Mechrist, people exercising their rights are idiots? who taught you that idea? good job with the name calling though.

Gov. Cuomo just banned any mags larger than 7 rounds is their way of punishing lawful citizens, cause when the average citizen gets caught with 8 round magazine they are now felons. Cuomo is already fixing that legislation, which criminals, the ones that commit 75% of gun murder, will pay no attention to.
Missouri is trying to ban any semiautomatic with a pistol grip. THe gov will try to seize any semi with a pistol grip, no grandfathering no transfer. Is that not a punishment? Turning lawful citizens to criminals? Probably won't pass, but they sure are trying

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.


scott
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#284870
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
12,000 gun murders a year

A suicide is a murder? Oh. So I guess when a black person shoots themselves it counts as black on black crime.


lol
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
no jghedge, no need for people to buy choppers, and I didn't say they should be allowed to. I think up to and including full auto firearms, which lots already do legally own.

scott
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Asscott,

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.

what in the world does "abortions" have to do with this gun debate thread?

why would you ask Mechrist why he did not comment about abortions?

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
I thought it was relevant to a conversation about murder.

This is a "conversation" about guns.

Yes it is possible to buy grenades and explosives, through underground markets. they aren't used in as many crimes because ammo for a 9mm is cheap and readily available

Handguns are also readily available. Why? Because anyone with a clean record can legally buy a gun a month, every month... then turn around and sell it for $500 and a bag of meth.

Mechrist, people exercising their rights are idiots? who taught you that idea? good job with the name calling though.

No, people who act like idiots and say idiotic things are idiots.

Gov. Cuomo just banned any mags larger than 7 rounds is their way of punishing lawful citizens, cause when the average citizen gets caught with 8 round magazine they are now felons.

Obviously, an average citizen with an 8 round mag is no longer an average citizen, they are a criminal. In 1913 someone with a vile of cocaine could be considered an average citizen... in 1914 they would be a criminal. In 1972 if a woman got an abortion she was a criminal... in 1973 she could be an average citizen. That's how laws work. Pretty simple.

criminals, the ones that commit 75% of gun murder, will pay no attention to.

Because they will just buy what is available through straw sales. I'll bet money the number of 8 round mags used in crimes will drop once the current supply from straw sales dwindles.

Is that not a punishment? Turning lawful citizens to criminals? Probably won't pass, but they sure are trying

No, it isn't turning lawful citizens into criminals. It is turning those who choose not to live by the law into criminals. Big difference. And it certainly isn't punishment if it doesn't even pass.

Mechrist, i noticed you didn't say anything about the 1.2 Billion served by abortion.

In a discussion about guns... yeah, no sh#t...
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
hey norton, thanks for the name calling. I don't think that's how my name is spelled


scott
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:43pm PT





























(didn't mechrist say he was out of here?)
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Oopps

It was NOT intentional

Just quick dumb typing

My apologies
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
no worries norton

I understand it's off topic, and this is the last I'll say about the abortion thing... I'm just trying to wrap my head around how its totally fine to end well more than 1 million lives each year in the US through abortion, while 30,000 die by guns and that's the worst thing ever. I understand that it's legal, and i fully support that. that's the answer then i guess.

I haven't read all of the posts here, and when I picked it up, the conversation was tilted toward murder

scott
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
I'm just trying to wrap my head around how its totally fine to end well more than 1 million lives each year in the US through abortion, while 30,000 die by guns and that's the worst thing ever. I understand that it's legal, and i fully support that. that's the answer then i guess.


ah, now I understand

you are saying WHY is the outrage over ABORTION not the SAME outrage as mass gun murders, right?

yes, abortion has long ago been decided as legal and constitutional, as is the 2nd Amendment

and this clearly bothers you, because if I read you right, abortion to you is "murder", just as the murders caused by guns

you have every right to feel that way, and your view on this is increasingly in the minority

this country has evolved on this issue and no longer defines "murder" as ending an unwanted zygote

Scott, I guess you won't be getting much sympathy for your position on this thread, I am sure there are lots and lots of religious web sites that agree with your abortion position to visit
paul roehl

Boulder climber
california
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:37pm PT
Fascinating thread... guns and abortion! In the meantime look what I came up with.
Happiness
Happiness
Credit: paul roehl
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
I'm non practicing catholic and 100% pro choice

The comment about full auto guns was more about having fun shooting targets than self defense. I don't own any guns, but do enjoy target shooting
Sympathy is useless, not looking for any

Scott
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
Scott,, youve entered the "twilight zone" where the absurd becomes the normal..Youll see..;-)
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
I never said I thought abortion was murder. It's not. I said why I brought it into the conversation. Nothing more to read into it.

Scott
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 21, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
I don't get it

How exactly am I being "hurt" or "compromised" by any seriously likely to pass federal legislation?

how would expanded background checks effect me, can't see how

how would much tougher penalties for straw buyers effect me, can't see how

I sincerely appreciate a gun owner expressing support for these laws, but since you asked:

Background checks and tighter penalties for straw buyers WILL reduce the number of guns sold to criminals. This hurts the gun manufacturers bottom line. If criminals have less guns, fewer non-criminals will want guns, so gun sales will fall even more. Lower sales volume will make the guns you want more expensive...hopefully.

More seriously, I do think that if effective legislation passes, there could be an increase in burglaries as criminals move to the next easiest source of guns, the idiots who keep guns unsecured in their homes and cars. I wish some of the proposed new laws would require the appropriate level of responsibility that comes with owning a gun.

TE


A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
I compared the murder rate across the map because it's hard to find another country with the sheer number of guns the US has.

If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US, not in private hands, no criminal, no lawful citizen has a gun. What happens to the total murder rate? Non gun murders are about 15,000 now. Which direction will that number go, if it changes...

scott
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Background checks and tighter penalties for straw buyers WILL reduce the number of guns sold to criminals. This hurts the gun manufacturers bottom line. If criminals have less guns, fewer non-criminals will want guns, so gun sales will fall even more. Lower sales volume will make the guns you want more expensive...hopefully.

What you say makes sense. Unfortunately, the people that don't get this habitually swallow the boss man's dick and call it macaroni. They're the same dip shits who think estate taxes concern them and that trickle down works. Repeat the speaking points enough and the apes can actually hoot a few of them out during the course of a normal conversation.


More seriously, I do think that if effective legislation passes, there could be an increase in burglaries as criminals move to the next easiest source of guns, the idiots who keep guns unsecured in their homes and cars. I wish some of the proposed new laws would require the appropriate level of responsibility that comes with owning a gun.

Or how about cleaning up their damn shells and target practice material they leave all over creation? F*#king slobs.

edit: HAhahaha! I really need to go climbing tomorrow, I'm turning into an online beast tonight.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US...

hahahaa... wtf?!
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
It's not really possible to compare gun murder rate between two countries where one, guns are outlawed and few are owned privately, and the other where there are nearly enough guns to arm the entire population. Which is why I was checking out the overall murder rate

of course without guns, the gun murder rate is zero. I was asking about your opinion of what will happen to the total murder rate.

scott
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