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A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
I'm non practicing catholic and 100% pro choice

The comment about full auto guns was more about having fun shooting targets than self defense. I don't own any guns, but do enjoy target shooting
Sympathy is useless, not looking for any

Scott
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 21, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
Scott,, youve entered the "twilight zone" where the absurd becomes the normal..Youll see..;-)
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
I never said I thought abortion was murder. It's not. I said why I brought it into the conversation. Nothing more to read into it.

Scott
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 21, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
I don't get it

How exactly am I being "hurt" or "compromised" by any seriously likely to pass federal legislation?

how would expanded background checks effect me, can't see how

how would much tougher penalties for straw buyers effect me, can't see how

I sincerely appreciate a gun owner expressing support for these laws, but since you asked:

Background checks and tighter penalties for straw buyers WILL reduce the number of guns sold to criminals. This hurts the gun manufacturers bottom line. If criminals have less guns, fewer non-criminals will want guns, so gun sales will fall even more. Lower sales volume will make the guns you want more expensive...hopefully.

More seriously, I do think that if effective legislation passes, there could be an increase in burglaries as criminals move to the next easiest source of guns, the idiots who keep guns unsecured in their homes and cars. I wish some of the proposed new laws would require the appropriate level of responsibility that comes with owning a gun.

TE


A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
I compared the murder rate across the map because it's hard to find another country with the sheer number of guns the US has.

If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US, not in private hands, no criminal, no lawful citizen has a gun. What happens to the total murder rate? Non gun murders are about 15,000 now. Which direction will that number go, if it changes...

scott
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
Background checks and tighter penalties for straw buyers WILL reduce the number of guns sold to criminals. This hurts the gun manufacturers bottom line. If criminals have less guns, fewer non-criminals will want guns, so gun sales will fall even more. Lower sales volume will make the guns you want more expensive...hopefully.

What you say makes sense. Unfortunately, the people that don't get this habitually swallow the boss man's dick and call it macaroni. They're the same dip shits who think estate taxes concern them and that trickle down works. Repeat the speaking points enough and the apes can actually hoot a few of them out during the course of a normal conversation.


More seriously, I do think that if effective legislation passes, there could be an increase in burglaries as criminals move to the next easiest source of guns, the idiots who keep guns unsecured in their homes and cars. I wish some of the proposed new laws would require the appropriate level of responsibility that comes with owning a gun.

Or how about cleaning up their damn shells and target practice material they leave all over creation? F*#king slobs.

edit: HAhahaha! I really need to go climbing tomorrow, I'm turning into an online beast tonight.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
If tomorrow, there were no guns in the US...

hahahaa... wtf?!
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
It's not really possible to compare gun murder rate between two countries where one, guns are outlawed and few are owned privately, and the other where there are nearly enough guns to arm the entire population. Which is why I was checking out the overall murder rate

of course without guns, the gun murder rate is zero. I was asking about your opinion of what will happen to the total murder rate.

scott
WBraun

climber
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:57am PT
Fact: !!!

Americans should NEVER give up their guns.

Never.

Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.

If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Werner has spoken......



and lots of places worse than here.



UNODC murder rates most recent year
Subregion Rate Count Region
Eastern Africa 21.9 69,344 Africa
Middle Africa 20.8 25,330 Africa
Northern Africa 5.9 12,276 Africa
Southern Africa 30.5 17,484 Africa
Western Africa 15.4 44,671 Africa
Caribbean 16.9 7,001 Americas
Central America 28.5 44,997 Americas
Northern America 3.9 13,558 Americas
South America 20.0 79,039 Americas
Central Asia 6.1 3,667 Asia
Eastern Asia 1.3 19,828 Asia
South-Eastern Asia 6.0 34,787 Asia
Southern Asia 3.8 63,102 Asia
Western Asia 2.6 5,736 Asia
Eastern Europe 6.4 19,072 Europe
Northern Europe 1.5 1,432 Europe
Southern Europe 1.4 1,669 Europe
Western Europe 1.0 1,852 Europe
Australasia 1.0 268 Oceania
Melanesia 11.1 898 Oceania
Micronesia 2.5 10 Oceania
Polynesia 0.1 3 Oceania
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:36am PT
thanks Ron for having my back a bit!

scott
saghi

Trad climber
Muskogee, OK
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
Fact: !!!

Americans should NEVER give up their guns.

Never.

Not to lying, cheating and terrorizing people who claim they are protecting them, the so called Govt. of the people.

If the the United States Government was honest then there would be no problem ......

This is my main reason for being on the "gun nut" side. I have very few guns and even less ammunition. I enjoy shooting and my wife does too. We do not need guns and, provided there are no drastic changes, could live without them and be perfectly safe.

The government is out of control and DOES NOT have our best interest in mind. If you can't see that, you are blind. It is illegal to murder and for a violent criminal to own a gun. That is as much say as we should allow the government to have about this issue. The amount of murders we have is a problem with US! It is not because we have too much freedom or don't have enough laws.

Until something changes with our government, I will always be on whatever side limits the government the most.

I have no sources for this OPINION so go ahead and call me an idiot "gun nut".

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:38am PT
"and lots of places worse than here."

Credit: apogee
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Why is it so hard to understand facts?

1) Violent crime is correlated with population density.
2) Violent crime committed with guns is more likely to result in murder.
3) Most criminals get their guns through straw sales.
4) Stricter federal gun regulations will reduce the number of guns available to criminals through straw sales.

Pretty fuking simple.

Nobody has answered my questions yet... how many guns do you buy every year? Who needs to purchase a new gun every month? Why not cut the limit to one gun purchase a year and cut the potential for straw sales by 1/12? Who here would that affect?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
jghedge writes:

"If you have no sources, what are you basing your opinion on?"




That's funny, and you probably can't even see it!

It appears Saghi's done his own thinking, and come to his own conclusions on this one. By constantly citing someone else's opinions ("sources"), jghedge comes across like he's letting others do his thinking for him.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 22, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
Funny, when gun murder rates don't support your view, they become opinions.

Getting facts from other sources is not letting others think for you.

So just cite yourself as your source, so you can claim to be an "independent thinker".
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/embed/9RABZq5IoaQ?feature=player_embedded



Wanna throw the racist card again? Ill bet none of you knew the NRA was helping fight racism..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Okay, okay mono... :)

1) "Therefore, the Jacobs hypothesis, which was developed in distinctly dense urban areas of the Northeastern U.S., is supported in very diverse settings. Importantly, this environmental characteristic population density predicted more of the variance in violent crime than the majority of the other population characteristics in the model."

Christans and Speer, 2005. Behavior and Social Issues, 14, 113-127

see also: Jacobs, J. (1961). The life and death of great American cities. New York: Random House.

2) http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf#page=27

3) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

4) Webster and Vernick, 2013. Reducing gun violence in America. The Johns Hopkins University Press.
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
It's not a matter of what anyone needs. The question of need is irrelevant. We are free to buy whatever, whenever as long as it's legal. The only burden when buying a gun is that said guns won't be used illegally or transferred to someone who couldn't legally purchase. It's wrong to assume that most lawful citizens are straw sales people. Once someone has passed all the checks and done all the paperwork, they are free to purchase. We can't assume they are up to no good. Especially since 99% of legal owners don't use their gun for murder, coupled with the fact that about 75% of gun murders are criminals killing other criminals, as well as the fact that there are far more murders without a gun

Forming an opinion or hypothesis isn't such a bad thing. It's part of the scientific method. Fact is that one day there were no airplanes that could fly, and the next day there were. What if they said, oh, we have no facts that a plane could fly and stopped thinking and working on it.

Medieval Ireland is proud that they have no murder by sword, while England sword murders are high. They just squash heads with stones in ireland, because there are no swords.

murder is the same awful thing no matter how it's carried out. Some take more offense when a gun is used, but the end result is the same.

scott



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 22, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Yes Scott,, its called INNOCENT until proven guilty.. A rather nice form of law.. Only severly handicapped types think otherwise.
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