The Gun debate sandbox

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hillrat

Trad climber

reno, nv

Apr 17, 2013 - 10:44pm PT

Can we all stop hoarding now so I can go buy a few plinker rounds for my .22?
Buy a pressure cooker instead, 'cause those are about to go black-market. And they make artichoke pretty tasty.
Thanks.
(offended response in 3...2....)

TradEddie

Trad climber

Philadelphia, PA

Apr 17, 2013 - 11:03pm PT

jhedge, I don't share your confidence that in just a few years the second amendment will be repealed, but neither do I think that repeal is necessary to achieve a significant reduction in gun violence, one that will feed on itself over time to reduce further deaths.

The supreme court has ruled that reasonable restrictions on gun ownership are constitutional; repeated challenges to the Brady Bill failed. Most of all the words are simply the right to KEEP and BEAR. There is nothing about not infringing on licensed dealers or private sellers, nothing prohibiting laws on responsible ownership or responsible sales. Nothing about bullets, the founding fathers knew guns needed ammunition, if they had wanted unrestricted sales of guns and bullets, they would have said so.

I don't have a goal of eliminating guns, the goal is significantly reducing deaths and injuries. Laws that restrict access to guns by prohibited persons and serious penalties for irresponsible ownership will reduce violence, it will take time, but it can happen sooner than repeal of the second amendment. Reduced violence will reduce demand for guns, fewer law-abiding people will feel the need to own guns, and less crazies will already have a gun at home when they do go over the edge.

Guns are not like drugs, there is a legitimate market for law-abiding people, the margin and scale is not there for a significant international black market, criminals will not smuggle guns from Fuktupistan when they can smuggle drugs. Eliminate the sources of illegal guns, and you will reduce illegal guns. Straw purchases, "private" sales, burglary.

TE

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Apr 17, 2013 - 11:11pm PT

I don't have a goal of eliminating guns, the goal is significantly reducing deaths and injuries. Laws that restrict access to guns by prohibited persons and serious penalties for irresponsible ownership will reduce violence,

We already have plenty of those.

You are correct though, only 4% think that gun control is a serious issue.

If this bunch is representative, about 2/3rds of those think that further restrictions are the serious issue.

That puts Mr. Unhinged in the 2%

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 17, 2013 - 11:24pm PT

Hey guys- i haven't seen anything on this thread lately about addressing the culture of violence worship that spurs a good many of these young wackos and inner city hoodlums to emulate what they have learned and witnessed since an early age. Now, if the congress would conjoin an assault (like)weapon restriction and strengthened background checks with limitation on access to violent video games and the disgusting trash on various readily available mediums it just might garner enough common sense support for passage. Just a thought....

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 17, 2013 - 11:44pm PT

Do they Hedge? Have you been to any of these other countries you mention and sampled their media, watched what their kids are seeing, or are you just reciting what you have heard? I'm not being confrontational so please don't launch an attack.

Gary

Social climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Apr 17, 2013 - 11:56pm PT

Sorry to interrupt, but I thought this was pretty f*#king funny:

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 18, 2013 - 12:20am PT

I guess it just ingrained in the pysche after many decades in towns like Chicago, home of Al Capone and the Valentines day massacre. Now that place is a worthy laboratory-they should try restricting access there to start with.

rick sumner

Trad climber

reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska

Apr 18, 2013 - 12:44am PT

Just diving Joe in a dumpster near you.

frank wyman

Mountain climber

montana

Apr 18, 2013 - 04:44pm PT

I wonder why women are not more offened by the goverments gun grabbing? A white guy with boatloads of guns like me of course is. But there was no mass shootings done by women..No crazy chicks running around shooting people by the dozens. Why should they be punished? Or does the Obama administration just think a 110 pound woman has a right to fight off a 200 pound rapist with her bare hands? I thought they were for womens rights. They always say the phrase common sense, My wifes common sense is to shoot if attacked. I don't know just babbling...All this is not going to affect me one bit up here..

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Apr 18, 2013 - 07:43pm PT

Big Time NRA Board Member QUITS in Protest:

WASHINGTON -- Adolphus Busch IV, heir to the Busch family brewing fortune, resigned his position on the board of the National Rifle Association on Thursday, writing in a letter to NRA President David Keene, "I fail to see how the NRA can disregard the overwhelming will of its members who see background checks as reasonable."

The resignation, first reported by KSDK, came a day after the Senate rejected a series of amendments to a gun control bill, including a bipartisan deal to expand background checks for gun sales. The NRA had vigorously opposed all those measures.

"The NRA I see today has undermined the values upon which it was established," wrote Busch, who also dropped his NRA membership. "Your current strategic focus clearly places priority on the needs of gun and ammunition manufacturers while disregarding the opinions of your 4 million individual members."

Reached for comment on Busch's resignation, NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam told The Huffington Post, "We disagree with his characterization, but we wish him all the best."

Busch joined the pro-gun organization in 1975 and has spoken before of his love of hunting. But the NRA has moved in a direction that Busch would not follow. "One only has to look at the makeup of the 75-member board of directors, dominated by manufacturing interests, to confirm my point. The NRA appears to have evolved into the lobby for gun and ammunition manufacturers rather than gun owners," he wrote.

A spokesman for the NRA did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Huffington Post.

Busch told Keene, "It disturbs me greatly to see this rigid new direction of the NRA." He singled out the gun lobby's reversal of its 1999 position in favor of universal background checks, as well as its opposition to an assault weapons ban and a ban on high-capacity magazines. "I am simply unable to comprehend how assault weapons and large capacity magazines have a role in your vision," he wrote.

"Was it not the NRA position to support background checks when Mr. LaPierre himself stated in 1999 that NRA saw checks as 'reasonable'?" Busch wrote, referring to NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre's testimony at a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in the wake of the 1999 Columbine High School shooting.

At that time, LaPierre said the NRA believed that universal background checks were a "reasonable" choice. The group even took out ads in major newspapers that read, "We believe it's reasonable to provide for instant background checks at gun shows, just like gun stores and pawn shops."

One week after that hearing, LaPierre rolled out the same argument that he would use 14 years later to attack President Barack Obama's gun safety proposals -- namely, that until the government prosecutes more background check violations, there is no point in expanding them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/adolphus-busch-iv-nra_n_3112750.html

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Apr 18, 2013 - 08:07pm PT

wonder why women are not more offened by the goverments gun grabbing?

interesting question

I have spoken with my wife and also a couple of her female friends over coffee about this

all of them acted surprised, said they were not aware of ANY actionable Federal legislation that results in "gun grabbing", OR "gun banning"

oddly, women apparently don't react irrationally to something that is highly unlikely

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 19, 2013 - 12:34am PT

wonder why women are not more offened by the goverments gun grabbing?

The government grabbed guns? When? Where? Whose?

Geez, I go climbing for 1 day and I miss all the important news.

Head for the mountains and Busch... beer.

WBraun

climber

Apr 19, 2013 - 12:49am PT

The government grabbed guns? When? Where? Whose?

When you're menacingly waving a gun around in public the govt. will take and grab your gun.

You've been owned ..... :-)

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 19, 2013 - 10:49am PT

owned is so 19th century.

you mean pwned!

stupid guru.

;)

pud

climber

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia

Apr 19, 2013 - 11:03am PT

The epitome of stupid is disarming good guys when bad guys are killing.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 19, 2013 - 11:27am PT

The epitome of stupid is thinking stricter regulations on gun sales is "disarming good guys." If you are a "good guy" you would be mildly inconvenienced at most.

mechrist

Gym climber

South of Heaven

Apr 19, 2013 - 04:30pm PT

If you feel you need a gun in order to not be a victim but can't because the evil tyrannical government has taken them all away, try NOT walking like a pussy instead!

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/04/09/journal_of_interpersonal_violence_study_suggests_attackers_choose_victims.html?fb_ref=sm_fb_share_chunky_bottom

Norton

Social climber

the Wastelands

Apr 19, 2013 - 05:26pm PT

oh come on

the NRA's "Board of Directors" is absolutely loaded with both weapon and ammo sales people

their very lives depend on making as much profit on selling guns and ammo as they can

they profit enormously when fools rush out and buy Bushmasters after every shooting

they target women by having assault weapons with PINK trim

they WANT the NRA to be their lobbying arm

just like cigarette makers do everything they can to market to children for future sales