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monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
Switzerland has very strict gun laws, including strict laws on private sales.

http://csgv2.blogspot.com/2011/03/truth-about-guns-in-switzerland.html

It is no surprise that the United States has an astronomically higher gun death rate than any other industrialized democracy. The critical concept of civic duty—which is such a central element of Switzerland’s gun culture—has been eviscerated in the United States over time by the gun lobby.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
And they are heavily regulated, Anderson. Much of the gun possession is related to being in a real militia organization with regular training.

Somehow I knew you would miss the point.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
The NRA would pout and cry like a little boy if Swiss style gun laws were proposed here.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
That's funny Anderson.

Don't you remember posting that xenophobic article saying the claiming Swiss were susceptible to Muslims demanding Sharia laws in their Muslim ghettos?

They have a higher Muslim population by percentage then we do.

Or are you OK with Muslims now, or is it's just the Mexicans you want out?
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
Are you OK with Swiss type gun laws in the US, Anderson?

If not, then you and Pyro just look ill informed bragging about Switzerland.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 5, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
kinda fun riding the tube there huh? loved the double deck buses. The high population density was a bit much for me though. The kids i went to school with were shocked i knew how to shoot, but they all seemed to think i lived in the wild west. course i thought they were all a bunch of pompous limeys.

sure was fun getn to ACTUALLY know eachother and dispell such heinous preconceptions.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 5, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Ron said:

Local LEOS can NOT touch them due to a severe misuse of the constitution and terminology due to political correctness.

After three years of law school, I thought I was pretty damn good on the Constitution.

I am not aware of any "severe misuse of the constitution" or any "terminology due to political correctness?


Ron, please elaborate further on both your points and especially on the misuse of the constitution

specifically what part, what amendment of constitution is being misused severely?

thanks
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 5, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Ranchers and farmers LOVE the ground hog hunters and the hog hunters these days as that is the only control on extremely destructive species such as those.

Because they done shot all the coyotes. You'd think people who "live on the land" like that would get a clue... EVENTUALLY. But they don't.
frank wyman

Mountain climber
montana
Apr 5, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
Jeezzs..Ron...Who are you going to believe?..."GOOGLEGUY"...or your own "LYING EYES"?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
So now we have a little "Fed" war here of sorts, over illegal people, here illegally, doing illegal things and even advertising that fact with cute tattoos and colors. They have driven our homicide rates up which is skewed at best since they ARENT citizens, nor part of this country. They are known only for illegal activities, and if that isnt a good description of an enemy combatant then none are

yes, I do understand from your many postings that you have a terrible illegals problem there

I suppose you can at the very least be thankful that the "feds" ARE enjoined with the local law enforcement to help find them and arrest them, I sure you agree with that

but getting back to my question:
I know it is just your opinion as you say, but again what part of the US constitution is being disused, or not enforced, or whatever it is you say about the Constitution?

and again, please explain what you meant by "political correctness" language somehow hampering enforcement, what language and who is saying it and how is this stopping enforcement?

yes I know everything you said is your opinion but opinions are based on truths, facts, on knowledge, and I would like to know what you are talking about, my questions?

thanks Ron
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
hedge, ever been to france? you,d fit right in.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Few people really believe in the Constitution. They prefer to pick and choose, upholding the 2nd while trashing the 1st, or trashing the 2nd then suing to remove "under god".
But i suppose the devil is in the interpretation, isn,t it?

And that,s why we have the supreme court. And in gun law, they,ve ruled- individual right with reasonable restriction. Now what was that again about justification?
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
whoa, you didnt just advocate the arrest of someone prior to committing a crime there did you ron?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
Because crime rate is a proven function of population density, and the UK is much more densely populated than we are.

And the fact that the crime rate is higher, yet gun murders are practically non-existent, refutes the gun nut paranoia that a gun black-market arming the criminals would result in mayhem.

Uhh... exactly my point. There are MANY metrics that go into crime rates of all sorts, including murders. So, the refutation you are talking about is actually making the opposite argument you claim it is.

You keep touting the 12,000 murder each year in the US, but you know that's not an accurate number. There are about 12,000 homicides, but that includes accidents, suicides, and actual murder. The actual murder figures are far, far lower than 12,000... probably more like 1/3 of that. And the vast, vast majority of those remaining murders are gang-related. In fact, we already HAVE a huge black market of guns that arm these gangs. The majority of these gang members could not walk into any store and buy a gun legally. So, the "mayhem" we do see is a demonstrable function OF the black market we have in guns. And that market would largely dry up if we got control of the GANG problem in this country.

By contrast, the UK doesn't have anything approaching the gang problem we have here, because they don't tolerate that crap under the rubric of "free speech." Unlike here, in the UK gangs don't flaunt their power.

In the USA, a tiny minority of the gun-holding population misuse their weapons. They are an identifiable minority, and we COULD get them under control if we had the will to do so.

(One big first step would be to legalize drugs. We could dry up most of the drug black market, drying up most of gangs' cash flow, and then devote the VAST resources we spend on the futile and utterly failed "war on drugs" into an actually successful war on gangs.)

And at that point, you'd see more like hundreds of gun-involved murders rather than thousands.

So, the whole "black market" argument is a red herring (on both sides of the debate), because, as always, the actual causality is much more subtle than either side wants to cope with. But we have a GANG problem in the US rather than a GUN problem.

Of course, you'll then say that even hundreds of murders is outrageous, and you'd compare that to the UK again, saying how out of proportion even hundreds of murders would be. After all, compare hundreds to 35! It's a "no brainer" that making guns harder to get would reduce that figure even more! Right?

But the real contrast should be how outrageous it is that there are ANY gun-related murders in the UK, when guns are illegal there, compared to the proportionally few in the USA where there are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation, and more people own guns in the US than the entire population of the UK. I mean, you can't even GET guns in the UK, right? Yet somehow hundreds of shootings and about 35 killings are still caused by guns. It's outrageous! Why can't they completely shut that crap DOWN???

Your responses so far just make my point all over again that you are cherry-picking numbers to make a very superficial and simplistic anti-gun point, when the actual reality is much more complex and involves a LOT more factors than gun-availability.

The sheer numbers of guns in the US, coupled with how easily available they ARE in fact makes the opposite case you would like, namely that our ACTUAL murder rate is amazing LOW compared to what you would expect in a "gun culture."

Solve the GANG problem in the US, and you largely solve the gun-related murder problem in the US. Solve the GANG problem here, and you'll bring other gun-related murders down into line with the per-capita rates in other countries such as the UK. And meanwhile, our total crime rate is a TINY fraction of theirs.

I'd still rather live here!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
Norton the Constitution now protects these illegals here. You know very well the amendments concerned. And further, the feds have standing policies issued by the obama admin that allow them to be here illegally as well and you know those as well- ive mentioned them many times previously.

Ron, again, I am pretty damn good on the Constitution from my law school days


I honestly don't know what you are talking about

for the third time, please state the section or amendment language that you are referring to

and now you throw out a new "fact", that the Obama Administration has issued "standing policies" that actually allow illegals to be here illegally

as President Obama has both greatly increased border funding, greatly increased border arrests, and also greatly increased deportation over any other President in US history, I honestly don't know what your "opinion" is fact base upon

can we try it again, please be specific, show the constitution language, political correctness "terminology" hurting enforcement, and also this new charge of yours regarding the President's new "standing orders", sources please

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:41pm PT

as President Obama has both greatly increased border funding, greatly increased border arrests, and also greatly increased deportation over any other President in US history, I honestly don't know what your "opinion" is fact base upon

LOL! hahah!

first thing i think about is the "Fast and furious"...

don't forget about all those ponga boats full of refugees coming from encinada

Credit: pyro
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
The Feds put "aid stations" out in the canyons below Tuscon right now. Water, first aid kits blankets etc etc. All for the Illegal immigrants.

Says who?
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
i dont think we want to do things here thd way mexico does them.
and most of the little bastards i,ve seen in gangs are us citz, like you n me, only young, stupid, uneducated, with drug-addled parents or none.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 5, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Said the US border patrol to my brother.

You are fuking hopeless dude.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 5, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
Ground hogs, as in the first critter you mention, you fuking dumb ass.

You act like you are the only one who has seen or eaten wildlife because you spend all day stuffing them.

But what else can we expect from someone who thinks an unknown BP agent telling your brother something makes it a fact? Or that the opinion of one VA counselor, also your brother, accurately portrays the millions of mental health PROFESSIONALS in the VA system.


Tell us more about how the government is going to take your guns. Or how you need more ammo for the impending shootout in your parking lot.
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