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Social climber
So Cal
Mar 19, 2013 - 08:56pm PT

Trad climber
Western America
Mar 19, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
Criminals are also in favor of disarming citizens.
Makes robbery much less risky.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 19, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
Police: Woman shoots, kills grandson

Posted: May 22, 2012 12:49 PM MDT
Updated: May 22, 2012 12:49 PM MDT

A 74-year-old Michigan woman has been charged with murder after shooting her 17-year-old grandson to death.

Sandra Layne is accused of shooting grandson Jonathan Hoffman eight times Friday after an argument inside her West Bloomfield home.

He called 911 to say he had been shot.

He was taken to a nearby hospital but was dead upon arrival.

No bond was set for Layne after she was arraigned on Monday.

She is held at the Oakland County Jail and is scheduled to appear in court Thursday for a preliminary examination.

Hoffman had been living with his grandparents so he could stay in Farmington schools while his divorced parents settled in Arizona, said his father, Michael Hoffman, of Scottsdale, Arizona.

Jerome Sabbota, a lawyer for the grandmother, said Jonathan Hoffman had legal problems over drugs and had conflicts with his grandmother.

Sabbota said his client fired her new .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun because she felt she had no choice.

"This is a 74-year-old lady who just bought a gun. It's not like she was a pro. I don't think she was in control of her emotions. She was afraid. She's not a big, strong woman," Sabbota said.

Regardless of what difficulties the teen gave his grandmother, there was no reason for her to shoot him, his father said.

"I'm not saying he was aggressive, but if he was, I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force," Michael Hoffman said.

Police were called to the home in March for a dispute between Layne and her grandson.

According to police, Jonathan Hoffman was in the street screaming and was out of control.

No charges were filed.

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 19, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
a handgun, not a large clip assault weapon, used in a home, by a homeowner

who was presumably rational, and in fear enough to shoot multiple times

a teenager who she was known to have disagreements with about his drug use

sounds justified to me, without knowing any more facts

and certainly so far not a good example of a need for "more gun control legislation"

not in the league of Aurora, Virginia Tech, New Town, etc mass murders

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
Mar 20, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
since newtown is the inspiration for the latest round of feckless gun control ideas, it's only fitting that we look to the citizens of newtown for inspiration on how we should respond to the latest gun massacre:

first, armed guards in schools? libs = no; citizens of newtown = yes

second, gun ownership for law-abiding citizens? libs = no; citizens of newtown = yes

correction: senate libs not up for re-election = no

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 20, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
Meanwhile at ground zero for senseless gun slaughters.

Colorado Gov. Hickenlooper signs landmark gun-control bills

Brennan Linsley / AP file
Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper, left, serving as moderator in a debate on gun violence hosted by CELL, the Counterterrorism Education Learning Lab, listens as University of Colorado law professor and panelist David Kopel speaks against gun control legislation in Denver, Tuesday Feb. 19, 2013.

By Matthew DeLuca, Staff Writer, NBC News
Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper signed landmark new gun laws on Wednesday expanding background checks on gun purchases and limiting the size of ammunition magazines, placing the traditionally firearm-friendly state among the handful to pass new restrictions in the wake of the shooting in Newtown, Conn.

Follow @NBCNewsUS
The Democratic governor defended the legislation in a press conference on Wednesday. Hickenlooper said he had found widespread support among state residents for broadening background checks, and dismissed the idea that politicians had been pressured from outside the state.
“This didn’t come from the White House,” Hickenlooper said.
Hickenlooper's signature came the day after the head of Colorado’s Department of Corrections, Tom Clements, was shot and killed in his home, apparently after he answered a ring at his front door, authorities said.
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The state has been scarred by some of the deadliest incidents of mass gun violence in recent U.S. history, including the 1999 shooting at Columbine High School and the Aurora movie theater shooting that killed 12 last July. The state’s gun control bills have gained national attention since they were first proposed, drawing the ire of those who oppose any new restrictions on gun purchases or ownership.
“We’re all in shock here,” state Senator Greg Brophy, a Republican, said on Wednesday. “It turns out this guy who everybody thought was a moderate Democrat is actually a gun-control governor.”
“I think the governor will be replaced by someone who has Colorado values instead of New York City values,” Brophy said. “If Republicans are returned to control we will repeal these bills immediately.”
Hickenlooper’s signatures came as “great news” to Stephen Barton, 23, who was injured during the Aurora shooting and now works for Mayors Against Illegal Guns. “This is a national problem that requires a national solution, but states like Colorado are making really great efforts to preserve public safety within their states.”
Vice President Joe Biden personally lobbied lawmakers to get enough votes to get the bills through the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives in February. The measures backed by state Democrats cleared the state Senate on March 12.
Republicans put up stiff resistance to the bills, arguing that the measures would not be effective in preventing future mass killings. Some Colorado sheriffs said before the governor signed the bills that they do not plan to enforce new gun-control laws in their districts, according to the Denver Post.
“Why put the effort into enforcing a law that is unenforceable?” Weld County Sheriff John Cooke told the Colorado paper on Monday. “With all of the other crimes that are going on, I don’t have the manpower, the resources or the desire to enforce laws like that.”
The measures also met resistance from magazine-maker Magpul Industries, which said that it would desert its plant about 30 miles from Denver if the proposed magazine limits became law.
Legislators who had opposed new laws restricting gun ownership said on Wednesday the new gun bills may have electoral consequences for state Democrats.

Legislators who had opposed new laws restricting gun ownership said on Wednesday the new gun bills may have electoral consequences for state Democrats.
Yes the Democrats will win big as the Colorado voters continue to realize just how out of touch the RepubliTEAhadists are to the sentiments of their constituents.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 20, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#295114

Maybe we should praise the NRA for doing such a fine job of population control.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 20, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
I beg to differ Philo..They will soon see how this does nothing to combat evil intent. They will soon realize all they done is make things worse, and will have serious consequence for those politicians who endorsed it. Why you ask? Some local polling was done at the latest CCW classes, all of which are full to capacity has indeed revealed many democrat voters are now obtaining their ccw permits as well as being first time gun owners.!! You see, both sides are SLOWLY awakening to the fact that the govt is comprised of two parties of the same jack wagons. The tremendous amount of feed back the congress received on this issue has put them on notice.. The people of this country shall not yeild their rights any more.

Sport climber
Mar 20, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
US Senator Diane Feinstein (D-CA) says her political career took off years ago when a nut climbed into an open window at San Francisco's city hall

with a dangerous high capacity assault weapon

-uh actually just a .38 revolver. The assassin carried out his vile deed with only a total of 10 bullets, reloaded one time, murdering the SF mayor and a supervisor.
A former sergeant in the 101st Airborne Division and police officer.

the Fet

Mar 20, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
From a recent email among my family.

The Liberals want all guns confiscated.
The Conservatives want any gun available with no background checks.

They both deserve to be made fun of. :-)

Trad climber
phx AZ
Mar 20, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
Credit: jabbas
Gettin' serious about training in Africa !!

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 20, 2013 - 06:00pm PT

The Granite State.
Mar 20, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
You can always go to Sig Sauer Academy. I just saw their ad on the evening news. Moms busting caps.

Colorado is pinche loco! First, they legalize mota, then they ban large capacity magazines. What's next, letting homos get married?

I'm never going back to CO, way too many hippie liberal homo gun haters.

They should secede with Texas. Steers and queers...

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 20, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
They will soon see how this does nothing to combat evil intent.

Nobody thinks gun control has anything to do with combating evil intent. That is absurd. It is about how FUKING EASY it is to get a killing machine with no training, no records, no oversight, no insurance, and very little in the way of background checks.

Holmes had mental issues... yet he legally purchased multiple guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, bullet proof vests, etc... all easily acquired. All EASILY tracked in the digital age.

Adam Lanza had planned his attack for years. He was known to have violent outbreaks. He had easy access to his mom's guns.

If someone can't get a gun legally, they simply have their "friend" buy one for them. Straw purchases are ridiculously easy. God forbid WE as a society try to track the purchase and sale of these deadly weapons... that would be unMerkin... you know, liberty and founding fathers and such.

Say, you "lost" a shipment of guns traveling from MA to CA? No problem, reporting the loss of interstate gun shipments is NOT MANDATORY... and gun nuts and the NRA will fight to the death to keep it that way... you know, the constitution and liberty and all that. How are those profits coming along btw?

No rational citizen should get worked up over a 2-4 week delay for their gun purchases... or having their serial numbers on record, or their ammo purchases tracked, or their mental health checked, or their medical history checked...

Fukit. Gun nuts are beyond reason. The government is going to track your sh#t whether you like it or not.

AND FOR FUK'S SAKE PEOPLE... IT IS THAN, NOT THEN. Yeah, it pisses me off... maybe as much as TRPA pisses some people off... or those gawdamn environmentalists... and guess what... I can get EASILY get a gun... god bless Merka.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 20, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#295164

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 20, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Hey there, say, I can buy a new gun every 30 days. While legally all sales in CA are required to be conducted through a licensed dealer... we all know criminals don't obey the laws.

With 1200+ gun murders a year in CA, you only need 100 criminals making monthly purchases to supply that many guns.

Why not make it 1 per year? I don't know about you, but I don't make many $500+ purchases a year... certainly not once a month. How many of you gun enthusiasts buy/need more than one new gun a year?

Also, why not track high volume purchasers? We have the technology. Surely we can figure out if they are just a gun enthusiast with enough money to enjoy their expensive purchases or a dirt bag living on about $500 and a bag of crystal each month.... if they ain't got a record don't worry, they can still get a gun!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 20, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Hey, I'm an unlicensed dealer!

Colorado IS nutz.

They need their own "Bloomberg" to ban bongs over 16 ounces!

(and now I'm so glad that I picked up a 15 shot FN .45acp, my new "Colorado" hi-power)

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Mar 20, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
The assault weapon ban can wait two more years, after voters have had their say on how this congress voted on the amendment, and the main senate bill.

This "paperwork" issue is pure BS. Why bother to "require" background checks? Just make it appropriately illegal to sell a gun to a prohibited person, knowingly or not, with the simple defense available of showing proof of a background check. With freedom comes responsibilities.


Gym climber
South of Heaven
Mar 20, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
TE, it ain't paperwork no more.

It should be retinal scans and DNA swabs. I don't see what the big deal is if you ain't got nothing to hide.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 20, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
look,, the guns sold are ALREADY recorded, serial number included , in every gun store and shop and FFL holder across the country.. The FEDs only require long gun or hand gun on the brady check BECAUSE they are already on file where they were sold . Those records are available to LE anytime they need. So what you really want to do is invite more fed govt intrusion and redundancy at tax payers expense -all against good law-abiding citizens for nothing since the guns are already on records...Make any SENSE??> nooope...
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