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Messages 3101 - 3120 of total 5667 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
These small firearms are often PURCHASED by women, a particularly fast-growing segment of firearm owners.

There. Fixed that.

So tell me, how many persons who practice concealed carry legally commit crimes with their guns? How many criminals who used a concealed weapon in a crime have a carry permit or a registered gun?

Ruger even makes LCRs and LCPs models with pink grips.

OMG! The horror!!

FWIW there was a madman shooting up the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon last December. After killing two, he turned his rifle on himself after being drawn on by an off duty security guard with a concealed carry permit. The guard did not need to fire his weapon, and chose not to for the safety of others should he miss.
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Feb 26, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
FWIW there was a madman shooting up the Clackamas Town Center Mall in Oregon last December. After killing two, he turned his rifle on himself after being drawn on by an off duty security guard with a concealed carry permit.

Why do these nutjobs always do themselves in last? Why don't they shoot themselves first and save us all the misery?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 26, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Why do these nutjobs always do themselves in last? Why don't they shoot themselves first and save us all the misery?

Sometimes I wonder if they are suicidal, but don't have the balls to just up and do it. It's as if they have to paint themselves in a corner first, to create a situation where there is no choice.

In the case of the Oregon shooter, there is little doubt that he would have kept killing many more had not the armed off duty guard confronted him.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Feb 26, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Well spoken.

"I don't really care about this idea of virtually eliminating gun deaths, it's a false cause. Cars, drinking, smoking, drug use, etc. are all much bigger issues if your baseline for judgment is how many die. I would rather preserve a free society, which millions have died to defend, than let us fall into a state of tyranny to theoretically save a relative few, when in fact you cannot prove your proposed laws would accomplish anything. Don't bother me with your endless ideology that the Brits have it right either. They have a serious mess on their hands, but it'll take another 10 years or so for it to come to fruition."

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Feb 26, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Well spoken indeed.

Hedge, there's plenty of room over in jolly 'ol England. I would miss you though.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:04am PT
And how many people are intentionally killed with cars?

Are DUI, speeding, reckless driving, texting while driving, using a cell phone while driving - in other words the causes of most accidents - not intentional acts?

The driver made a choice to put their own and other people's well being at risk. That is intentional. Of course I understand that such a driver is not choosing the specific person they will harm or kill, so instead of murder one they should get manslaughter, but the majority of car accidents are caused by the decisions and actions of drivers.

I suppose you could actually argue that cars don't kill, drivers do...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:15am PT
I'm not even remotely desperate. Do you text and drive? I certainly would not do that under any circumstance. It is an irresponsible deliberate choice and when it results in a big fatal car crash it is equivalent to shooting people. They are dead. They were innocent and killed.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:25am PT
you are putting your own and other's well-being at risk every time you drive. That's the same as homicide?

The answer to your question depends on choices made by a driver.

DUI resulting in fatality is frequently prosecuted as vehicular homicide.

DUI is the cause of a large portion of our worst highway crashes.

I think that if we could prevent most misbehavior by drivers the number of serious accidents would be dramatically reduced.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 01:59am PT
Washington (CNN) -- The U.S. government reports a 9% increase in motor vehicle traffic fatalities for the first half of 2012, the largest jump during the first six months of any previous year since data was first collected in 1975.
A statistical projection from January through June estimates 16,290 people died in vehicular crashes this year, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Think smartphones might be involved?

Phones don't kill people, people do.

And how is virtually eliminating gun deaths a "false cause", if it's actually been done?

Because it's a false cause here. The only guns you can take away are the ones owned legally, the only ones you know about. The rest stay out there, and more keep coming in. Your gun ban will create a huge black market. We are not an Island nation like UK with cameras everywhere. At least not yet. If you cannot see the difference between the UK and the US you are, as they say across the pond, thick.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 02:19am PT
Don't be so naive, okay?

Any government effort to ban guns will be based on confiscating the registered guns they know about. Beyond that they might get lucky once in a while and find, as you suggest, someone driving around with a trunkload of guns.

You ignored my questions upthread:

So tell me, how many persons who practice concealed carry legally commit crimes with their guns? How many criminals who used a concealed weapon in a crime have a carry permit or a registered gun?

You have a big hard on to take away my guns, and you have no effective way to disarm the gang bangers and criminals who have no respect for the law and know how to get guns which are not traceable.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 02:43am PT
But the "criminals who have no respect for the law" are the very people you advocate arming in the first place, by advocating the continuance of the status quo.

What? I'm not advocating arming them, I am saying that they will be armed by their own volition.

And this concept that something should not be legal if you don't need it, as in who actually needs a gun in Monrovia? How do you know what security issues I have at my home? How do you know the remote places I go where there is no LEO? You don't know squat about me, my home or my travels.

The fact is that taking away my guns, or for that matter simply requiring that I cannot have more than 7 rounds in a gun, will have no effect on a criminals intent on mayhem who will show up with all kinds of firepower acquired through the thriving black market created as an unintended consequence of your wonderful laws.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Feb 27, 2013 - 03:20am PT
Hedge you are like a little dog with a sock. I am done with you.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Feb 27, 2013 - 04:16am PT
Chicago's police superintendent admits what gun owners have known for years and non gun owners refuse to believe.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/26/Chicago-Police-Superintendent-Admits-Only-Criminals-Commit-Crimes-With-Guns?
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 27, 2013 - 08:36am PT
The rest stay out there, and more keep coming in.

Just where do you think guns would come from if criminals couldn't steal them from supposedly "responsible" gun owners who leave guns unsecured in unlocked cars or homes, make personal purchases at guns shows or through the classifieds or just get one of the homies without a record, or the homies little sister to simply buy one then claim they "lost" it.

That Chicago cop's statement is meaningless, and statistically wrong, of course most gun crime is by existing criminals, but a significant enough portion is by previously law-abiding persons, those mentally ill or domestic violence situations (for example any one of the recent mass murderers, Dorner, old guy in Alabama).

The more important fact is that those prohibited by law from buying guns face virtually no practical obstructions getting guns because "responsible" gun owners refuse to be inconvenienced in any way. If I needed to acquire a gun without a background check today, it would take less than an hour, I could break into the houses of any one of several people I know who keep guns unlocked at home, or I could randomly pick the first five houses on my street, starting with the guy with two black Chevy pickups, a harley, and the "Don't tread on me" flags. If all else fails, I could go online and actually spend money, that might take me two hours.

You can't grow guns under lamps, or boil one up in a flask and while its very easy to make a crude zip gun, they're not going to kill 10,000 people a year, certainly not 20 kids in a school.

TE




pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 27, 2013 - 10:04am PT
The manic rants of jhedge simply prove the irrational mindset of the anti-gun crowd.

Frantic dribble.

This is one individual that should never be allowed to own a firearm.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 27, 2013 - 10:13am PT
and that is a fakt^^^^^^^^

That is the ONE thing proven by this thread.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 27, 2013 - 10:41am PT
http://www.pottsmerc.com/article/20130226/NEWS02/130229530/pottstown-man-charged-after-threatening-ex-girlfriend-with-gun

Here’s your precious Second Amendment rights at work. This previously law abiding citizen has been charged with Aggravated Assault. Since the maximum sentence for a first offense isn’t even one year, he’s perfectly entitled to retain his guns. Even if the bail conditions require him to surrender his guns, in the absence of registration, police have no way to know if he has any, so have no means to enforce that requirement. In the unlikely event that he doesn’t plea to a lesser charge, and is found guilty of Aggravated Assault, the sentence for a first offense wouldn’t even render him ineligible to own or buy guns in the future. It's his rights you are defending when you oppose stricter gun regulation, not just your own.

I read my local newspaper every day, it's better than Jerry Springer. In that unscientific unrepresentative survey I see 4 or 5 gun crimes every week, gun thefts from houses or cars about once a week, maybe a murder a month, accidental shootings every few months, and in the past year, one single instance of a law abiding citizen defending himself with a legally owned gun. I haven't looked back the entire 230 years, but I'm sure I'd have heard about the overthrown tyrants or invaders repelled by the people after the defeat of the military.

TE
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Feb 27, 2013 - 10:50am PT
It's "drivel", not dribble

Yes it is. I'm glad you agree.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 27, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
More "outrage theater" at the Capitol again today.

Politicians get to showboat (but will pass nothing).
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 27, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
Politicians get to showboat (but will pass nothing).

probably a good prediction, Ron

but what exactly do YOU want them to pass?

or perhaps you don't want any legislation of any kind to become law?
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