Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Yes John,, some probably do benefit from these psycho drugs, no doubt. But Long ago, returning vets didnt have these. Vets of WW11 and Korea just managed it for themselves, and yes many had problems, but no more so than now a days and more than likely less. The power of suggestion is a real component, and PTSD has become such a COMMON diagnosis that its nearly SOP. I know many a Nam era Veteran that went through some major hells that never took any of these pills and did just fine.
Now of course, this also conflicts with Dr/Patient confidentiality laws in disclosing info about patients.
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jghedge
climber
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"conclusion: expect more mass murders, and accept the fact that there is not really anything to be done about it, it is the "price" we pay for a couple guys over 200 years ago writing one sentence into our Constitution, back when they had black power muskets and about one minute to reload."
Except, of course, that's not how social injustice works - and 12,000 gun deaths a year is social injustice.
You could easily have said the same thing about slavery - too ingrained into society, the Framers made a mistake, abolition would cause more problems than slavery did etc.
All of which just amounts to sweeping the problem under the carpet. Won't work.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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conclusion: expect more mass murders, and accept the fact that there is not really anything to be done about it, it is the "price" we pay for a couple guys over 200 years ago writing one sentence into our Constitution, back when they had black power muskets and about one minute to reload.
Yeah, "a couple of guys over 200 years ago", are probably complete out-dated, bitter-clingers, who had no concept of tyrannical governments and personal liberty.
Those stupid men...I bet they were old white Christians too. Idiots.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Norton yes your correct about the muskets but the govt then also had the very same single shot barrel loaded weapons. The intent of the law has not changed, only the weaponry required to maintain an equal militia.
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jghedge
climber
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And, of course, other countries have just as many drug prescriptions as we do.
What's the difference between them and us? 300 million guns.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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An equal militia?
WTF?
Now listen I am warning you guys...
Don't make me draw you in cartoons.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Philo,, that tank is not classified as a personal defense weapon,, like the DHS categorizes ARs...
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jghedge
climber
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"The intent of the law has not changed, only the weaponry required to maintain an equal militia."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Let us know when you can "equal" this, Rong
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Whew, thanks Ron I was really worrying that it was going to cost so much when i have kids to support and all.
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jghedge
climber
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"Philo,, that tank is not classified as a personal defense weapon,,"
Then why are you talking about an "equal militia"?
Just more brain-dead babble?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Blue,
Please do not misinterpret my words to be any kind of contempt for our founders.
My point is only that they wrote for their own "times" and had not way of predicting the future, that is not an insult to them but just a fact.
And Blue, your comment about "tyranny":
Back then we had just defeated England here on our own soil and our founders had that memory very fresh in their minds when they said government "tyranny"
But now in the 21st century, the facts are quite different when one tries to make the case that citizens here need weapons not only for hunting and self defense, but also to "defend against tyranny".
There is no defense, period.
IF our own government wanted to, a guy in a basement in Virginia will drop a GPS guided 500 pound bomb from a Drone right though anyone's window in the entire world. Things have changed, owning guns to pretend to fight off the US Armed forces is well, ludicrous.
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John M
climber
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Vets of WW11 and Korea just managed it for themselves, and yes many had problems, but no more so than now a days and more than likely less.
I think that you are talking out of your ass on this statement Ron. Plus comparing a war we won to a war that we lost that had dubious reasons for even being there is apples to oranges. The Vietnam war was a whole nother ball of wax and is difficult to quantify. Many vets felt like they were fighting a useless war. That makes overcoming problems a lot more difficult.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Let us know when you can "equal" this, Rong
What part of personal defense do you continue to miss?
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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How many gun-related deaths in "gun-free" Chicago?? Is that working?
All right, fess up what rightwing dipshit blog did you read that on? Or are you just making sh#t up again?
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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The 2nd amendment spoke to the securing or personal protection from tyrants. Key word personal. The DHS categorizes AR15 weapons as personal defense weaponry which directly conflicts with the current proposed regulations that classify those same weapons as assault weapons.. Perhaps this is a dandy example of tyranny, that the govt in ITS desires can classify such a weapon as "personal defense" while wanting the citizenry to have gramps double barrel 12 gauge.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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And Blue, your comment about "tyranny":
Back then we had just defeated England here on our own soil and our founders had that memory very fresh in their minds when they said government "tyranny"
But now in the 21st century, the facts are quite different when one tries to make the case that citizens here need weapons not only for hunting and self defense, but also to "defend against tyranny".
There is no defense, period.
IF our own government wanted to, a guy in a basement in Virginia will drop a GPS guided 500 pound bomb from a Drone right though anyone's window in the entire world. Things have changed, owning guns to pretend to fight off the US Armed forces is well, ludicrous.
Maybe, but could they do that 300 million times? Would they? I think you fail to see the point of the 2nd. It is to allow every citizen a personal defense weapon. From whackos, and a COMMON defense against a tyrannical gov't.
There is no argument here. That is what the 2nd is.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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John M,, 53000 casualties on a four mile island alone.. Close to the same amount as the entire VietNam conflict.
I knew a vet who was recently buried at Arlington with full honors. He enlisted at 16, was in the Bataan death march at 17, escaped a jap prison and rejoined his outfit to fight out the war. Came home and was a great success and a fine gentleman.
Another great long time friend was a swift boat gunner in Nam, and saw MUCH action. A great success and fine gentleman.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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How many gun-related deaths in "gun-free" Chicago?? Is that working?
I think there were ONLY some 500 last year, in a population of millions.
In fact, that number is not about HALF of the handgun death rate in Chicago prior to 1995 or so when the city of Chicago started seriously enforcing the new gun laws.
So yeah, obviously the gun laws have had a very large effect in a city that size.
Alaska: the LEAST restrictive gun laws in the nation and the HIGHEST gun deaths per capita
Massachusetts: the MOST restrictive gun laws and the LEAST gun deaths per capita.
yeah, it "works", like it or not does not matter
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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I really want to know where "gun rights activists" believe criminals get their guns? Where did those guns ultimately come from?
a) Stolen from "responsible law-abiding gun owners" who have no legal requirement to secure those weapons against theft?
b) Purchased privately from "responsible law-abiding gun owners" who have no legal requirement to ensure purchasers are not criminals?
c) Otherwise-legal straw purchases, which are essentially undetectable until that gun turns up in a shooting and difficult to prosecute because "responsible law-abiding gun owners" are allowed to "lose" their guns in unlimited quantities, or get them "stolen" and not report it?
d) Diverted from the legal trade through unscrupulous dealers who face no real penalties, for fear that "responsible law-abiding dealers" would be unfairly required to keep accurate records of who they sell to?
e) Smuggled in from other countries that don't have these oppressive restrictions?
f) Grown hydroponically?
If the Republicans claim Photo ID is necessary to vote, in order to prevent a virtually non-existent crime, how can anyone oppose the same to buy a gun, or for that matter, bullets?
TE
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